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Good game but bad customer service

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Ok.. In response to this topic, I am not sure if anyone opted to go check Steam Reviews, which are, overall amazingly positive, even if you click the "Not Recommended" reviews, which we all know are just steaming piles of butthurt, the common and seemingly top gameplay negatives being that this game is built on the Unity Engine, and for some reason, this has resulted in it being very unoptimized requiring a lot more computing power than a game of it's scope and graphic level should require.

    With that said, I was in fact surprised to see an ongoing theme of complaints that CS/Moderation staff being assholes. 

    So while I am not sure if what the OP said is in fact True as they put it out, there are quite a few reviews that talk about the Admins and Moderators being bullies in the game, so as shocking as this sounds, it seems like it could be legit, and while I am sure there more to the story, then what we are being told, from the reviews I have read, it is not unheard of for an Admin/Mod to dish out a ban if someone says something they don't like or disagrees in chat with what they have said, for as off the wall as that sounds.

    But you know.. do your own homework on this one.

    Personally, I would not touch Project Gorgon, because as far as even the positive reviews go, the game is a buggy unoptimized train wreck, and I can get that in any F2P MMO out there, I don't need to spend $40 for that experience.
    [Deleted User]Gdemamidragonlee66muthax
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited February 2021
    Ungood said:

    Personally, I would not touch Project Gorgon, because as far as even the positive reviews go, the game is a buggy unoptimized train wreck, and I can get that in any F2P MMO out there, I don't need to spend $40 for that experience.
    Well, since I already pay Bethesda for a buggy mess I also don't need another such. ;)

    As I thought, pretty much most players paid a single $40 fee to join so there's less incentive for the devs to retain a particular customer nor provide decent customer support.

    One reason I suspect Bethesda doesn't come down hard on the hackers in FO76 is not only are they legion (between the weapon hackers and housing glitchers) these same folks are some of the biggest spenders in the game's Atom shop.

    People often question why CCP permits some of the players in and out of game bad behaviors in EVE and the simple answer is, they pay their money too.
    GdemamiUngood

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Ungood said:
    Quizzical said:
    I'm not saying that it's impossible to spend 8000 hours on a game.  I am saying that it's unusual to spend that much time on one particular game without feeling like you've played through everything and want to move on.  And it's especially unusual to spend 8000 hours playing one particular game before that game even launches.

    There's also the issue that there's almost certainly more to the story than the original poster is saying.  Someone who has been justly banned and wants to complain about it isn't likely to give the full details of why he was actually banned.
    I get that, but, also, this game has been in EA for 5 years now.

    The hours are a Nothing Burger, really.
    Actually... As I understand they no longer are planning to do anymore wipes. If so then regardless what stage the devs try to say the game is in, it is for purposes "launched" in my book.

    At 8000 hours, that's a whole lotta nothing :)
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]Ungood

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    I think its a very small team I think.  I'm surprised that they have a customer service at all.
    KyleranUngood

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    mgilbrtsn said:
    I think its a very small team I think.  I'm surprised that they have a customer service at all.
    I'd also be surprised if the developers weren't well aware of and tactically in support of their moderators actions.
    Ungood

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Tiny team doing "customer service" off the side of their desks when their skills lie elsewhere... I would be amazed if by sheer luck they somehow do it well.

    I expect good customer service from AAA games who have dedicated specialists running that side of things.

    In a niche, little game like this you get what you get with the same bias, over-reactions and lack of professionalism I would expect from a small soup shop when they may just dislike you and have no soup for you.
    GdemamiUngoodBrainy
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,050
    Iselin said:
    Tiny team doing "customer service" off the side of their desks when their skills lie elsewhere... I would be amazed if by sheer luck they somehow do it well.

    I expect good customer service from AAA games who have dedicated specialists running that side of things.

    In a niche, little game like this you get what you get with the same bias, over-reactions and lack of professionalism I would expect from a small soup shop when they may just dislike you and have no soup for you.
    I love soup...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SovrathUngood
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiny team doing "customer service" off the side of their desks when their skills lie elsewhere... I would be amazed if by sheer luck they somehow do it well.

    I expect good customer service from AAA games who have dedicated specialists running that side of things.

    In a niche, little game like this you get what you get with the same bias, over-reactions and lack of professionalism I would expect from a small soup shop when they may just dislike you and have no soup for you.
    I love soup...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I used to but now I have a beard.
    Kyleran[Deleted User][Deleted User]SovrathUngoodSandmanjw
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    I love Project Gorgon.  I like the loot system and the quest system has a very classic PC gaming vibe to it that, once it clicked, I absolutely loved!  I could be wrong, but I think it's just two people making it, no?  My first MMO was a one-man project, so I have a soft spot for those kind of devs. 

    I definitely got $40 of fun out of this over the past few years.   I can also understand why people wouldn't be into it.  All the people mentioning the terrible performance are 100% right and it's very rough around the edges.

    I don't presume to know anything about their Mods or anyone involved in the game, really.  I've literally never talked to another player in the game.  I can't stop getting cognitive dissidence when I try to imagine that the OP didn't say something questionable, but what do I know? 
    Ungood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Iselin said:
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiny team doing "customer service" off the side of their desks when their skills lie elsewhere... I would be amazed if by sheer luck they somehow do it well.

    I expect good customer service from AAA games who have dedicated specialists running that side of things.

    In a niche, little game like this you get what you get with the same bias, over-reactions and lack of professionalism I would expect from a small soup shop when they may just dislike you and have no soup for you.
    I love soup...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I used to but now I have a beard.
    Ice cream cones are the worst...


    Iselin[Deleted User]UngoodKidRisk

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Member UncommonPosts: 171
    I play and love this game. It is the only game I play now. The skill systems, questing, crafting and other special skills are a new experience that I find totally refreshing. Almost every night There is an Admin in game and answering questions, taking recommendations and discussing ideas. Plus he runs a number of special dev controlled events. As the founders of the game are both from Asherons Call it has a very AC feel to parts of it. As too wipe at retail it "sounds" like the armor, weapons money and favor (think kinda rep) will be reset. I see this as the game I will be playing for years to come. OH if eye candy is what you look for this wont be the game for you but if play still things to do character development are important then nothing comes close.
    SovrathKyleranmuthax
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    I'm surprised they made it to Steam and are making money on it....i was never really that impressed with it.
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]SandmanjwBrainydragonlee66
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    I play and love this game. It is the only game I play now. The skill systems, questing, crafting and other special skills are a new experience that I find totally refreshing. Almost every night There is an Admin in game and answering questions, taking recommendations and discussing ideas. Plus he runs a number of special dev controlled events. As the founders of the game are both from Asherons Call it has a very AC feel to parts of it. As too wipe at retail it "sounds" like the armor, weapons money and favor (think kinda rep) will be reset. I see this as the game I will be playing for years to come. OH if eye candy is what you look for this wont be the game for you but if play still things to do character development are important then nothing comes close.
    Oh.. former Turbine staff.. that explains so much really.
    Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • CuddleheartCuddleheart Member UncommonPosts: 391
    How come Nobody is asking...

    1.  What was the question asked?
    2.  What was the answer the op gave?
    I don't think anyone is biting at the bait.
    Okay now.  Beeeeee honest :)
    Aren't you just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle curious?
    Ungood[Deleted User]
  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiny team doing "customer service" off the side of their desks when their skills lie elsewhere... I would be amazed if by sheer luck they somehow do it well.

    I expect good customer service from AAA games who have dedicated specialists running that side of things.

    In a niche, little game like this you get what you get with the same bias, over-reactions and lack of professionalism I would expect from a small soup shop when they may just dislike you and have no soup for you.
    I love soup...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Campbell's has a commercial where they put popcorn in their tomato soup...  this thread seems appropriate to try it :D
    KyleranUngood
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:

    Personally, I would not touch Project Gorgon, because as far as even the positive reviews go, the game is a buggy unoptimized train wreck, and I can get that in any F2P MMO out there, I don't need to spend $40 for that experience.
    Well, since I already pay Bethesda for a buggy mess I also don't need another such. ;)

    As I thought, pretty much most players paid a single $40 fee to join so there's less incentive for the devs to retain a particular customer nor provide decent customer support.

    One reason I suspect Bethesda doesn't come down hard on the hackers in FO76 is not only are they legion (between the weapon hackers and housing glitchers) these same folks are some of the biggest spenders in the game's Atom shop.

    People often question why CCP permits some of the players in and out of game bad behaviors in EVE and the simple answer is, they pay their money too.

    Great. How?

    Because I've yet to see, over all these years, someone post one of these things complaining about moderation but once seen they clearly needed to be moderated.

    So if people are complaining about moderation I want to see. It could just be people behaving like assholes all complaining that they can't say whatever they want to say.

    A person makes a complaint like this needs to back it up with something because otherwise given what has gone before, they fall into the say category of people who can't reign in their behavior.
    Scot[Deleted User]Ungoodmuthax
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • OkeefeOkeefe Member UncommonPosts: 9
    An other player came into Gl;abal and stated that the covid actions , ie lockdowns, being used were excessive.  

    I asked if 100M deaths was a better scenario and JacknCola jumped down my throat instantly.

    I asked if Jack was a covid denier and 'poof'.  30 day ban

    The game will do another wipe, at release.  What gets wiped is still up for grabs.

    I was almost done everything after 2yrs (almost to the day) but that is irrelevant. 

    I have a 170+ player guild and nearly 10M in cash.  I spent most of my time crafting armor for guild members and  helping people out.  

    I have never been banned from a game, and I played dozens since 1985. 


    [Deleted User]GdemamiSovrathmuthax
  • OkeefeOkeefe Member UncommonPosts: 9
    I was also Perma banned from the STEAM forum, by a PG Dev for posting a negative comment, so be aware the steam forums are not accurate. 

    Steam says this was perfectly acceptable. 
    Gdemamimuthax
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited February 2021
    Apparently the moderators are COVID-19 deniers, happens a lot here in Florida where I see this game's developers live.

    ;)

    My guess is you ran afoul of these two clauses in their TOS, the 2nd being quite broad.

    Discussing a Suspension and/or Ban publicly;

    Conduct and/or discussion that is detrimental to the community as determined solely by ELDER GAME staff.

    The good news is you can slag on them here as much as you want, so crusade away!


    [Deleted User]Sovrath[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    I'm a strong believer of keeping real world politics out of the game world, as it never ends well.  I have yet, in all my years playing game, ever seen a in-game political discussion go well.

    On top of that, making personal attacks against staff about their beliefs and creeds, be it religious, political, or anything else, again, Huge No-No.

    You were just looking to get into a fight with that Moderator/Admin, for what reasons you did that, I will never understand, as there was nothing to be gained in any way shape or form, so you deserved your 30 day ban, the fact that you kept wanting to push religious/political attacks against staff, yah.. you were begging for that ban.

    There is an old saying about Political views, they are like having penis, you can be proud of the one you have, but no one wants you to whip it out in public.
    muthax[Deleted User]
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    edited February 2021
    Okeefe said:
    An other player came into Gl;abal and stated that the covid actions , ie lockdowns, being used were excessive.  

    I asked if 100M deaths was a better scenario and JacknCola jumped down my throat instantly.

    I asked if Jack was a covid denier and 'poof'.  30 day ban

    The game will do another wipe, at release.  What gets wiped is still up for grabs.

    I was almost done everything after 2yrs (almost to the day) but that is irrelevant. 

    I have a 170+ player guild and nearly 10M in cash.  I spent most of my time crafting armor for guild members and  helping people out.  

    I have never been banned from a game, and I played dozens since 1985. 


    There are games where you are not allowed to speak of covid at all in chat... zero tolerance... automatic ban... whether you are responding or not... you report it instead if it bothers you.

    Sorry if you feel entitled to break the rules with a 170 member guild, cash, and a bazillion hours played. ;)

    For example, Warhammer Reckoning has that policy. 
    Ungood[Deleted User]KyleranSovrathdragonlee66muthax
  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    edited February 2021
    tzervo said:
    There are games where you are not allowed to speak of covid at all in chat... zero tolerance... automatic ban... whether you are responding or not... you report it instead if it bothers you.
    I can probably see where these games come from (thousands of chat discussions on that subject gone bad so the are being preemptive) but out of curiosity, how long do these bans (for example in Warhammer) last? And are they just chat bans or overall game bans?
    Usually it's a 24hr or week ban (game)... but if you kick it up a notch and go to the forums to bitch about it... or have guildmates pester... then you get into deeper bans... like the OP is experiencing.

    If you try to login, with a different account (but say they catch your IP)... permanently banned... depending on the game.

    The OP for all the hours spent in game knew he/she were breaking rules... then had a fit when they got a temp ban(could have sucked it up, nope)... and broke more rules... "entitled"... they were put in their place.

    Warhammer Reckoning actually has a ban appeal forums that you can go to that only the moderators can see (which is amazing for a private server).  They respond quickly and fairly, but don't put up with BS... and they keep amazing evidence and logs.


    [Deleted User]Ungoodmuthax
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:

    You were just looking to get into a fight with that Moderator/Admin, for what reasons you did that, I will never understand, as there was nothing to be gained in any way shape or form, so you deserved your 30 day ban, the fact that you kept wanting to push religious/political attacks against staff, yah.. you were begging for that ban.
    Was it possible for him to know he was talking to a mod? (not a rhetorical question, I am actually asking if mods strut around with a tag in this game). Even if he was, it might not be prudent or smart to confront him but it still sounds like abusive mod behaviour and should be exposed. I am also against political and religious talk in chat because it usually turns badly but players should not be jumpy and afraid to say anything, this sounds like a very constrictive and unpleasant environment to play in.

    Again, if the player was civil and there is not more to it - him saying in OP that he "answered a question" instead of "confronted another player about his views on COVID" sounds like a pretty misleading statement and makes me a skeptic. His case would definitely be more convincing with some proof.
    Given he is calling out the mod by name, who he confronted in game, It stands to reason he knew exactly who and what he was talking to.

    And, he openly admits that he was seeking to call-out a mod/admin for their political views, which is at best either just stupid or a total douche move, sometimes a bit of both. 

    Now, I am hard pressed to defend any Turbine staff, but lets get something clear, Steam backed up him being banned from PG's forums permanently, so the OP no doubt was totally in the wrong, and the more I hear, the more I am willing to side with Steam on this one.
    [Deleted User]muthax
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    edited February 2021
    Torval said:
    Ungood said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:

    You were just looking to get into a fight with that Moderator/Admin, for what reasons you did that, I will never understand, as there was nothing to be gained in any way shape or form, so you deserved your 30 day ban, the fact that you kept wanting to push religious/political attacks against staff, yah.. you were begging for that ban.
    Was it possible for him to know he was talking to a mod? (not a rhetorical question, I am actually asking if mods strut around with a tag in this game). Even if he was, it might not be prudent or smart to confront him but it still sounds like abusive mod behaviour and should be exposed. I am also against political and religious talk in chat because it usually turns badly but players should not be jumpy and afraid to say anything, this sounds like a very constrictive and unpleasant environment to play in.

    Again, if the player was civil and there is not more to it - him saying in OP that he "answered a question" instead of "confronted another player about his views on COVID" sounds like a pretty misleading statement and makes me a skeptic. His case would definitely be more convincing with some proof.
    Given he is calling out the mod by name, who he confronted in game, It stands to reason he knew exactly who and what he was talking to.

    And, he openly admits that he was seeking to call-out a mod/admin for their political views, which is at best either just stupid or a total douche move, sometimes a bit of both. 

    Now, I am hard pressed to defend any Turbine staff, but lets get something clear, Steam backed up him being banned from PG's forums permanently, so the OP no doubt was totally in the wrong, and the more I hear, the more I am willing to side with Steam on this one.

    Steam doesn't really interfere with per game forum moderation. Steam provides those forums to game studios. The studio runs those forums, not Valve. Valve runs their own set of forums. Being banned on one game forum doesn't ban you on unrelated forums. Valve is pretty hands off about this stuff. They don't want to get in the middle.

    On one hand the OP definitely knew where they were going with this. On the other hand there are some very big egos in the community inner circle and they expect to be given a certain respect and not contradicted in any way. They're just players, but have way more influence than is healthy for an MMO. It's not a good scenario all around. Remember when Sapience went batshit ego crazy on the LotRO forums? It's like that only 10X worse and not just with the game developers.

    Lots of good about the game. Lots of bad about it too. This is why ESO, WoW, and other big name games are just a better experience.
    I don't think we can take any learning lessons from the OP.  Other than don't think anyone is above a temp ban for violations, and if you get one... don't make matters worse.

    8000 hours, 170+ guild... sorry... this is not YOUR personal game.  There is a community... from solos... to 5 people guilds... on up... 

    The fact that someone with 8K hours would come here to bash them... yeah... TOXIC... comes to mind



    Ungoodmuthax
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    edited February 2021
    Okeefe said:
    An other player came into Gl;abal and stated that the covid actions , ie lockdowns, being used were excessive.  

    I asked if 100M deaths was a better scenario and JacknCola jumped down my throat instantly.

    I asked if Jack was a covid denier and 'poof'.  30 day ban

    The game will do another wipe, at release.  What gets wiped is still up for grabs.

    I was almost done everything after 2yrs (almost to the day) but that is irrelevant. 

    I have a 170+ player guild and nearly 10M in cash.  I spent most of my time crafting armor for guild members and  helping people out.  

    I have never been banned from a game, and I played dozens since 1985. 



    I'll agree with Tservo, if you were civil then sure, I get it.

    But Ungood has a point as well. Discussing real-world issues usually doesn't go well because it's difficult to successfully debate a topic like that in chat.

    Also, there are better ways to debate that particular topic. I would have just left it because in the end, what would I really be gaining? Especially if I can't persuade someone to my thinking.

    I might have not asked if he was a "denier" because that's just setting up conflict.
    KyleranUngood
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
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