You keep bringing up this 75k like its some huge amount of money. You realize programmers can easy make 75k-150k per year normally. I know they have at least 2 programmers in the household. They have been working off this for years.
They have been letting people play this game early access for years, sure maybe the graphics are not as well developed as they could be, but there is an MMO there. Its not like they scammed their community.
If you have over 100+ hours in, which it sounds like you do. Don't you think you got your monies worth?
If you want this game to continue development, they need more money, are you thinking they are just hiding a few million in their back pocket or something?
They are choosing this method to make some more money, and continue development of the game. People are going to have to choose if its worth it or not.
I think its legit to question if this is a good plan or bad plan. But to keep harping like these devs are pulling one over on the community is ridiculous.
In the other thread he said "I have over 1.5k hours clocked in on Steam" so just think about that vs what was paid.
And just to once again be clear on this: Since the very Kickstarter they have TOLD EVERYONE that they planned to institute a sub. They TOLD EVERYONE that the sub would be around $10 and would include things like storage.
If people ignored that then that is 100% on them.
How DARE these developers do exactly what they told us they would do!!!! /OUTRAGE!!!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As someone who's played this game extensively I can say that everything about this game right now is verging on pure insanity but isn't all the way there yet..
People defending fully segregating players into pay + pay more categories with P2W-lite in a low budget Unity asset game is craziness.
I have got to agree with you here.
Given how much people on this forum alone bemoan the very idea of a cash shop because it would give those that spend money an "Unfair" advantage, to then turn around and support giving an "Unfair" advantage to players that paid a sub, boggles my mind.
Even AAA MMO's are not stupid enough to put dividers between the pay-gap of their players, and games that have a VIP system in place, often put a lot of effort to ensure that the non-ViP members do not feel like second class citizens.
Which as it stands, seems to be what PG is doing, and IIRC they have a dev from DDO working for them, which means they should not be this stupid.
The fact that posters support this kind of divide, yes, I tend to agree, it is quite mind boggling.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go buy a bunch of crap from the cash shop just to piss off all the people that hate crash shops, might even buy me some loot boxes.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Personally i am hoping that they put in a Platinum VIP Tier at 15$ a month so we can look down on the common VIPers
Personally they should put in a Cash Shop with Rampant P2W and Loot Boxes, and Offering God Level Premium status to anyone who spends over $100 a month, so the whales can look down upon the unwashed masses who are only spending a paltry $15 a month when they could be spending 100's to become gods.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You keep bringing up this 75k like its some huge amount of money. You realize programmers can easy make 75k-150k per year normally. I know they have at least 2 programmers in the household. They have been working off this for years.
They have been letting people play this game early access for years, sure maybe the graphics are not as well developed as they could be, but there is an MMO there. Its not like they scammed their community.
If you have over 100+ hours in, which it sounds like you do. Don't you think you got your monies worth?
If you want this game to continue development, they need more money, are you thinking they are just hiding a few million in their back pocket or something?
They are choosing this method to make some more money, and continue development of the game. People are going to have to choose if its worth it or not.
I think its legit to question if this is a good plan or bad plan. But to keep harping like these devs are pulling one over on the community is ridiculous.
et tu Brainy?
75K was just the first on the list of $ they've collected.. it's really not even a big deal but if I didn't include it the usual paid shills would accuse me of not including it and find a way to use against me the one thing I left out.. The money PG collected and continue to collect from Steam sales and from backer packs is the amount that is more than any other indie Unity asset MMO of its kind. Show me another Unity asset MMO in 3+ years 'beta' that costs $40 and/or still sells founder/backer packs for $50, $75, $500 and every item in those packs except VIP isn't available to the person who purchases them in a game that has been out in playable 'beta' for 3 years...
Launch is 18 months away... EIGHTEEN yet they are selling VIP for progress NOW in a game that will have a wipe of ALL INVENTORY, CURRENCY, vendor REPUTATION. ALL of those three things is what the INVENTORY in the purchase of VIP NOW is used for as a way to progress. The only progress every character will retain after launch in EIGHTEEN months is the skills they've leveled. So for the next 18 months most of the progress in the game in form of loot, currency gain and vendor reputation which means extra inventory IN-GAME obtainable inventory is erased to leave just ONE(skills) remaining. VIP is technically just selling you progress for that ONE thing only through TEMPORARY p2w perks. Do you understand now? That's why it's been impossible to try and convince these jokers in this thread because THEY DON'T PLAY THE GAME so they don't know that.
Think about why most of the people coming at me who admitted themselves don't play the game are so vehemently defending a p2w temporary perk sub in a Unity asset MMO that's still in psuedo 'beta' after 3 years. Slapshot said himself he opposed "subs in beta" at the start but now says that because they said it 6 years ago BEFORE anyone had any opportunity to play the game extensively and see/experience the intentionally designed inventory burden it's somehow OK. "6 years" to realize that inventory sucks for everyone but instead of fixing the problem decide to offer the "fix" only for players who pay more..
From the time they announced a sub "6 years ago" no one knew how important inventory in the game would be. From the time they announced the VIP sub 6 years ago til the time the game launches it will be 7.8 years they had to use better judgement and not include something that has p2w-lite perks that will divide the community more than it is now between pay and pay mores. FYI they've said they will ADD MORE to the VIP sub. You know what that means right? What happens when a base game that costs $40 made by two people with limited amount of manpower makes $12 in ONE month which is roughly 1/3 price of the game just from selling temporary p2w perk game features?
1. I thought selling ANY p2w type advantage features in a BTP MMO in 'beta' was/is wrong?
2. How is it that a game I've suggested to other players in many threads here over the years but I'm now coming under heavy fire from people who admit themselves not playing and even disliking the game.
"I did not consider it worth it either after trying out the demo. Hated the combat and overall handling especially, and nothing I read about what comes after in the game motivated me enough when researching it. Price was not what put me off, it just did not click with me to justify spending time on it."
"the game did not click for me"
People here like @Kyleran who don't even own the game and @Slapshot who bought the game on sale once but hasn't really played much is trying to label me a PG hater? Why? Go back and read my old posts and see how many times I've suggested PG to others... How can I be a PG hater if I have over 1500 hours played + experienced every aspect of the game? I've been giving MY opinion of the game based on MY experience which at 1500+ hours I think is enough to say I have some knowledge about.
Paid shills here who change their stance on topics as much as the wind changes direction think of those who agree with them as fools the same way PG devs/mods think that people defending their p2w sub are fools. Don't be used by people who profit from deception/manipulation ESPECIALLY when they are crossing ethical boundaries like PG is doing now.
In the words of @DMKano "Game developers aren't your friends" the most honest words that have ever been written on this site IMO.
Sure. The answers to most of your questions can be found earlier in the thread or one of the similar ones.
Not going to repeat them again.
Your assertions are ludicrous and everyone can see that. Nobody is being paid by the 2 person development team to shill for their game but if that makes you feel better go for it. It does make great reading. It’s the strongest example of why just letting people talk is the best way to address these issues. Much better to let folks expose themselves for all to see. And then having seen, folks can easily decide truth from strange fantasy reality.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Launch is 18 months away... EIGHTEEN yet they are selling VIP for progress NOW in a game that will have a wipe of ALL INVENTORY, CURRENCY, vendor REPUTATION. ALL of those three things is what the INVENTORY in the purchase of VIP NOW is used for as a way to progress. The only progress every character will retain after launch in EIGHTEEN months is the skills they've leveled. So for the next 18 months most of the progress in the game in form of loot, currency gain and vendor reputation which means extra inventory IN-GAME obtainable inventory is erased to leave just ONE(skills) remaining. VIP is technically just selling you progress for that ONE thing only through TEMPORARY p2w perks. Do you understand now? That's why it's been impossible to try and convince these jokers in this thread because THEY DON'T PLAY THE GAME so they don't know that.
As for 18 months away, I wouldn't count on that.
Those that choose to contribute to the optional VIP program know everything you are shouting about. Their voluntary choice is an informed one.
Yes, all will be lost, except the progression. To the extent VIP helped that progression along, those that had it will be in a better position than without it. In a game where progress comes slowly that benefit alone could make VIP worth it to some. The benefits VIP provide will also be helpful in their rebuilding. On top of that, they will have whatever satisfaction they receive from helping P:G progress over that time.
Those that believe VIP isn't worth it will still have the progression they would have if the system didn't exist at all, essentially no worse off for it.
Your voluminous complaints over this are naught but dust in the wind, which is why your arguments fail to convince.
People here like @Kyleran who don't even own the game and @Slapshot who bought the game on sale once but hasn't really played much is trying to label me a PG hater? Why? Go back and read my old posts and see how many times I've suggested PG to others... How can I be a PG hater if I have over 1500 hours played + experienced every aspect of the game? I've been giving MY opinion of the game based on MY experience which at 1500+ hours I think is enough to say I have some knowledge about.
You're not a P:G hater. You are passionately arguing against a decision you don't agree with and believe will be bad for the game. That shows love for it, not hate.
I suspect you also feel backed into a corner in this, as you know what you feel to be impending doom is coming and for all your efforts you will not be able to stave it off. I believe this underlies much of your lashing out at those with a differing view.
You're arguments against VIP simply aren't all that good or presented well, which I think is due to the combined factors above. Your passion is such that is has become unchecked to the degree it is working against your arguments rather than support them.
Perhaps it would be best to take some time to recenter, and then renew your efforts in a more controlled state of mind. As things are now, you're doing your position on this more harm than good.
75K was just the first on the list of $ they've collected.. it's really not even a big deal but if I didn't include it the usual paid shills would accuse me of not including it and find a way to use against me the one thing I left out.. The money PG collected and continue to collect from Steam sales and from backer packs is the amount that is more than any other indie Unity asset MMO of its kind. Show me another Unity asset MMO in 3+ years 'beta' that costs $40 and/or still sells founder/backer packs for $50, $75, $500 and every item in those packs except VIP isn't available to the person who purchases them in a game that has been out in playable 'beta' for 3 years...
Launch is 18 months away... EIGHTEEN yet they are selling VIP for progress NOW in a game that will have a wipe of ALL INVENTORY, CURRENCY, vendor REPUTATION. ALL of those three things is what the INVENTORY in the purchase of VIP NOW is used for as a way to progress. The only progress every character will retain after launch in EIGHTEEN months is the skills they've leveled. So for the next 18 months most of the progress in the game in form of loot, currency gain and vendor reputation which means extra inventory IN-GAME obtainable inventory is erased to leave just ONE(skills) remaining. VIP is technically just selling you progress for that ONE thing only through TEMPORARY p2w perks. Do you understand now? That's why it's been impossible to try and convince these jokers in this thread because THEY DON'T PLAY THE GAME so they don't know that.
Think about why most of the people coming at me who admitted themselves don't play the game are so vehemently defending a p2w temporary perk sub in a Unity asset MMO that's still in psuedo 'beta' after 3 years. Slapshot said himself he opposed "subs in beta" at the start but now says that because they said it 6 years ago BEFORE anyone had any opportunity to play the game extensively and see/experience the intentionally designed inventory burden it's somehow OK. "6 years" to realize that inventory sucks for everyone but instead of fixing the problem decide to offer the "fix" only for players who pay more..
From the time they announced a sub "6 years ago" no one knew how important inventory in the game would be. From the time they announced the VIP sub 6 years ago til the time the game launches it will be 7.8 years they had to use better judgement and not include something that has p2w-lite perks that will divide the community more than it is now between pay and pay mores. FYI they've said they will ADD MORE to the VIP sub. You know what that means right? What happens when a base game that costs $40 made by two people with limited amount of manpower makes $12 in ONE month which is roughly 1/3 price of the game just from selling temporary p2w perk game features?
1. I thought selling ANY p2w type advantage features in a BTP MMO in 'beta' was/is wrong?
2. How is it that a game I've suggested to other players in many threads here over the years but I'm now coming under heavy fire from people who admit themselves not playing and even disliking the game.
Look I think you are making some valid points. P2W elements I am generally strongly against. If this game was bankrolling money, I think your point would be much more valid, because it would be sheer greed. However I don't think they have been gouging people, desperate times require desperate measures, which is what this looks like to me.
I feel at this point they are just trying to keep the servers running and a little extra development.
Launch/release is just way to ambiguous now. People playing this game for years and want to say its not released yet because its "technically" in early access? Some feel a release is when they reset the servers. I don't have a good definition for a release, but its a gray area for sure. Do you really think this game will substantially improve in 18 months?
I am not white knighting this game believe me. These Devs make some really bad decisions. So here is a story for ya. So a couple years ago, I go on their forums and leave a single comment saying this game really needs to do something about the inventory management problem. Was about a paragraph how inventory management ruined the game for me.
For that, I check a few days ago, and my forum privilege's have all be revoked. Maybe its cause I haven't been on the forum in a few years I don't know, but it sure seems shady, like they don't take criticism well at all.
Anyways, at this point, I have to compare this game with everything else coming out. And there isn't much that isn't Pay 2 win with massive cash shops. What they are doing is not even as good as ESO, as they giving like 15 slots to character inventory, big whoop. I doubt its going to be enough to entice many to Sub. Doesn't sound like you think its worth it to sub either. But its their choice if they want to screw up their game or not. I pretty much think the people that paid their money got their monies worth already so end of story. If people expect to pay only $40 and have entertainment for a lifetime, that's just not realistic.
Those that choose to contribute to the optional (paid)VIP program know everything you are shouting about. Their voluntary choice is an informed one.
Yes, all will be lost, except the progression. To the extent (paid) VIP helped that progression along, those that had it will be in a better position than without it.In a game where progress comes slowly that benefit alone could make (paid) VIP worth it to some. The benefits VIP provide will also be helpful in their rebuilding. On top of that, they will have whatever satisfaction they receive from helping P:G progress over that time.
Those that believe VIP isn't worth it will still have the progression they would have if the system didn't exist at all, essentially no worse off for it. <-- Can't "be in a better position than without it" AND "no worse off for (not having)it"... Can't be alive and dead at the same time...
Your voluminous complaints over this are naught but dust in the wind, which is why your arguments fail to convince.
You just pretty much validated p2w and what I wrote in my post... sooo thanks for that I guess...
People here like @Kyleran who don't even own the game and @Slapshot who bought the game on sale once but hasn't really played much is trying to label me a PG hater? Why? Go back and read my old posts and see how many times I've suggested PG to others... How can I be a PG hater if I have over 1500 hours played + experienced every aspect of the game? I've been giving MY opinion of the game based on MY experience which at 1500+ hours I think is enough to say I have some knowledge about.
You're not a P:G hater. You are passionately arguing against a decision you don't agree with and believe will be bad for the game. That shows love for it, not hate.
I suspect you also feel backed into a corner in this, as you know what you feel to be impending doom is coming and for all your efforts you will not be able to stave it off. I believe this underlies much of your lashing out at those with a differing view.
You're arguments against VIP simply aren't all that good or presented well, which I think is due to the combined factors above. Your passion is such that is has become unchecked to the degree it is working against your arguments rather than support them.
Perhaps it would be best to take some time to recenter, and then renew your efforts in a more controlled state of mind. As things are now, you're doing your position on this more harm than good.
Those that choose to contribute to the optional (paid)VIP program know everything you are shouting about. Their voluntary choice is an informed one.
Yes, all will be lost, except the progression. To the extent (paid) VIP helped that progression along, those that had it will be in a better position than without it.In a game where progress comes slowly that benefit alone could make (paid) VIP worth it to some. The benefits VIP provide will also be helpful in their rebuilding. On top of that, they will have whatever satisfaction they receive from helping P:G progress over that time.
Those that believe VIP isn't worth it will still have the progression they would have if the system didn't exist at all, essentially no worse off for it. <-- Can't "be in a better position than without it" AND "no worse off for (not having)it"... Can't be alive and dead at the same time...
Your voluminous complaints over this are naught but dust in the wind, which is why your arguments fail to convince.
You just pretty much validated p2w and what I wrote in my post... sooo thanks for that I guess...
I pointed out that voluntary VIP has value, as it should, as the money paid for it has value. That's pretty much how exchange traditionally works... you get something in exchange for something. That's not exactly a huge revelation, and has no direct connection to p2w. It's just how trade has always worked and always will.
People here like @Kyleran who don't even own the game and @Slapshot who bought the game on sale once but hasn't really played much is trying to label me a PG hater? Why? Go back and read my old posts and see how many times I've suggested PG to others... How can I be a PG hater if I have over 1500 hours played + experienced every aspect of the game? I've been giving MY opinion of the game based on MY experience which at 1500+ hours I think is enough to say I have some knowledge about.
You're not a P:G hater. You are passionately arguing against a decision you don't agree with and believe will be bad for the game. That shows love for it, not hate.
I suspect you also feel backed into a corner in this, as you know what you feel to be impending doom is coming and for all your efforts you will not be able to stave it off. I believe this underlies much of your lashing out at those with a differing view.
You're arguments against VIP simply aren't all that good or presented well, which I think is due to the combined factors above. Your passion is such that is has become unchecked to the degree it is working against your arguments rather than support them.
Perhaps it would be best to take some time to recenter, and then renew your efforts in a more controlled state of mind. As things are now, you're doing your position on this more harm than good.
Yeeeaahh... nope.
Well, I didn't expect a rational appeal to work with someone that seems currently embedded in an irrational state, but I figured it was worth a shot.
Carry on with your hole digging then. Hopefully you brought an exceptionally tall ladder along with.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"I did not consider it worth it either after trying out the demo. Hated the combat and overall handling especially, and nothing I read about what comes after in the game motivated me enough when researching it. Price was not what put me off, it just did not click with me to justify spending time on it."
"the game did not click for me"
...
Paid shills here who change their stance on topics as much as the wind changes direction think of those who agree with them as fools the same way PG devs/mods think that people defending their p2w sub are fools. Don't be used by people who profit from deception/manipulation ESPECIALLY when they are crossing ethical boundaries like PG is doing now.
You say you are under fire because I politely disagreed with you but you are the one attacking with ad homs like "paid shills" and "fools".
If you look my responses in other threads my opinion on the game is pretty consistent:
- No I do not like the game and I do not own it. I have played the demo and I have done some research on it.
- No I do not think it is innovative.
- Yes it has enough quirks to make it more interesting and fresh than many other titles. This the reason I follow it still.
- Yes I consider it a good niche game, based on the reviews. That's the most important point: the fact that it did not click for me does not mean I consider it a bad game. I even said that in this very thread and as part of my sentence that you quoted but you conveniently ommited it to fit your narrative:
I have no issue with the positive reviews, I think they are well deserved, even if the game did not click for me.
I don't mind paying for my games. If I liked and was playing P:G I would not mind paying for the sub. I generally play my MMO of choice an average of 15 hours per week. That's 20 cents per hour. You sunk thousands of hours in the game so I assume the numbers are similar. That's great value.
If you want to sacrifice having fun with a game that you consider good over 20cents/h for some weird principle, then go ahead and do that and tell me I am the fool. ^o^
If you aren't a paid shill like the people you're always agreeing with are and do not see that they are paid shills then in my statement I'm actually trying to help you out by alerting you with what they think of you & I(fools) and we're actually on the same team... But you failed to recognize that because you're too lost in the game either being a paid shill or not a paid shill but still believe that certain people who post in every thread with the most unorganic statements/methods of conduct aren't paid shills... Do you understand?
Organic posters do not relentlessly attack other posters who actually play games they do not play... Organic posters have organic conversations that involve reason(sometimes), listening and believe in respect or at least accept other people's opinions whatever they may be especially if others have experience with certain games they themselves do not play. Unorganic posters guide and direct agendas usually with back and forth meaningless information, lying and always in what seems like a scripted B-C movie format/system/routine. Unorganic posters attempt either alone or with others to insult, humiliate, confuse their target into silence to regain control cause that's what they're paid to do... guide conversations away from uncomfortable topics/subjects.
Sooo if you're not a paid shill and didn't even buy or play the game why you coming at me so hard? Did what I write about PG a game you don't even like or play upset you? What I've written about PG are kind words compared to what was being said in the PG VIP dev blog thread on Steam which they LOCKED cause people were discussing things and they didn't like that very much...
Also.. if that "weird principle" you're referring to is not having a P2W sub in a 'BETA' low budget Unity Asset BUY TO PLAY INDIE unfinished MMO that has been in EARLY ACCESS for 3+ years then you're absolutely right cause they are crossing a line that HAS NEVER been crossed before and not in a good way.
The voluntary VIP program is now available on Steam for those so inclined. To those not, vae victis. All that remains now is choosing what you will do in response.
Should you stay or should you go now? Good luck to those making that choice regardless what you decide. I wish you all well.
First of all anyone who hasn't spent at least a 100 hours on this game should not be labeling this pay2win you do not know the amount of work arounds that the devs put in the game to get to the same place as people who buy vip already like seriously they don't deserve to be labeled and branded all these recent reviews with 7-8 hours saying its pay2win is fucking pathetic I beta tested the game I had 3000-4000 hours off and on steam the only flaw this game has is the admins policing and power tripping and the devs not listening to the playerbase nor hiring new coders to help them
In conclusion these people are bi*ching for All the wrong reasons
This game is all about leveling skills, getting rep, and getting gold.
So yes this is definitely Pay to win. You get free xp while you sleep, you get bag space that lets you collect and store more items which you can then sell for gold or turn in for rep. So every main function of this game is improved and has advantages if you pay for the sub. Which I believe is the very definition of pay to win.
Its not like we talking cosmetic only cash shop here. This sub is giving advantages to people that pay them period.
With that said, everyone knows this game is holding on by a thread. Their steam numbers are horrible. They could shut the game down, but they want to keep working on it. I honestly don't think the sub is going to be worth it, and few will come back even still. It sucks they have to resort to this. If they didn't have all these inventory management problems from the start and they put a bit more time into graphics maybe this game would have been more popular. But we have to deal with reality here and now, these devs don't really have much choices at this point.
I am sure if someone offered them $150k per year free and clear as an angel investor they would gladly take that and not do these drastic measures.
You suggest hire more coders? Uhmm are you forgetting something? Pretty sure a business needs money to hire people. Start with how you can give these guys $500k clear over 3yrs, then move from that point. If you want another coder, add another $500k over 3 yrs for each one. Then you will get a better picture of the problem.
First of all anyone who hasn't spent at least a 100 hours on this game should not be labeling this pay2win you do not know the amount of work arounds that the devs put in the game to get to the same place as people who buy vip already like seriously they don't deserve to be labeled and branded all these recent reviews with 7-8 hours saying its pay2win is fucking pathetic I beta tested the game I had 3000-4000 hours off and on steam the only flaw this game has is the admins policing and power tripping and the devs not listening to the playerbase nor hiring new coders to help them
In conclusion these people are bi*ching for All the wrong reasons
Welcome to gaming, where you will learn that when people cry P2W, what they really mean is: The game had something they had to pay for in it, and they lost their shit over that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some games deserve to die. I'm not quite sure if P:G is one of those or not, but it isn't winning points for the graphics or innovation. Like @tzervo said earlier, the game has some unique quirks, but beyond that it's not chocked full of innovative new features that every future game will copy and emulate.
If they were to rip out all the unity store assets in favor of better graphics, then this *might* be worth a VIP subscription *only* if you were interested in a very niche game.
P:G feels to me, at this point in time, like a game that is being kept afloat against it's will. Life support for an MMORPG that doesn't involve Daybreak? Now that's a thing!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The voluntary VIP program is now available on Steam for those so inclined. To those not, vae victis. All that remains now is choosing what you will do in response.
Should you stay or should you go now? Good luck to those making that choice regardless what you decide. I wish you all well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some games deserve to die. I'm not quite sure if P:G is one of those or not, but it isn't winning points for the graphics or innovation. Like @tzervo said earlier, the game has some unique quirks, but beyond that it's not chocked full of innovative new features that every future game will copy and emulate.
If they were to rip out all the unity store assets in favor of better graphics, then this *might* be worth a VIP subscription *only* if you were interested in a very niche game.
P:G feels to me, at this point in time, like a game that is being kept afloat against it's will. Life support for an MMORPG that doesn't involve Daybreak? Now that's a thing!
That's just a really weird way of looking at it.
It's like saying that to merit its existence it has to have elements that others want to take and copy and expand.
It can't just be its own thing.
Also "unity store assets" are art assets they aren't "graphics." Graphics is about how light and shadows and textures all interact with those assets.
But even if the graphics were changed made more modern and even if they actually had artists create new assets, the people who proudly declare that "gameplay trump graphics" would make that statement moot for those who think like them.
Project Gorgon should exist as long as the developers want to make it and as long as there are people who want to play it and support it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sooo if you're not a paid shill and didn't even buy or play the game why you coming at me so hard? Did what I write about PG a game you don't even like or play upset you? What I've written about PG are kind words compared to what was being said in the PG VIP dev blog thread on Steam which they LOCKED cause people were discussing things and they didn't like that very much...
Also.. if that "weird principle" you're referring to is not having a P2W sub in a 'BETA' low budget Unity Asset BUY TO PLAY INDIE unfinished MMO that has been in EARLY ACCESS for 3+ years then you're absolutely right cause they are crossing a line that HAS NEVER been crossed before and not in a good way.
I did not come at you hard (at least not before you started ad hom'ing). Why do you feel that this is the case? On the VIP thread I agreed with you on one point:
But I do not expect the money they will get from the sub to be enough to speed up development (aka hire more people).
and on another I said that I see nothing wrong with not seeing value in the sub either:
OP just does not see the value for the sub, so he should not pay the sub, and that's fine too.
But if you try to prove that this is in principle wrong, I strongly disagree, and if you try to insult me and quote half sentences from me to prove me wrong, well... expect to be called out on it, the gloves are off.
I wasn't trying to "prove you wrong" I was showing YOUR OWN WORDS as an example of how you DO NOT own the game, play the game and could not "justify spending time on it" but for some strange reasonmove in the exact same direction not just in thread but in most threads as the paid shills..
This is the FULL sentence you wrote I separated that you accuse me of doing with malicious intent..
"Price was not what put me off, it just did not click with me to justify spending time on it."
Either you're shilling hard now or just don't understand that your FULL sentence is actually WORSE than just the part I removed to SHOW that you just didn't care for the game much. In your FULL sentence you admit that you DID NOT BUY IT because you could not "justify spending time on it" which IMO is worse than "just did not click for me" because it means that FOR YOU the game wasn't worth the $ AND devoting ANY time to... "just did not click for me" is very broad and could be for various even personal reasons.
"the gloves are off" say what? Why are the gloves coming off for a game you don't own, don't play and couldn't even "justify spending any time in"? Think about for second how that makes no sense at all.
Comments
And just to once again be clear on this:
Since the very Kickstarter they have TOLD EVERYONE that they planned to institute a sub. They TOLD EVERYONE that the sub would be around $10 and would include things like storage.
If people ignored that then that is 100% on them.
How DARE these developers do exactly what they told us they would do!!!! /OUTRAGE!!!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Given how much people on this forum alone bemoan the very idea of a cash shop because it would give those that spend money an "Unfair" advantage, to then turn around and support giving an "Unfair" advantage to players that paid a sub, boggles my mind.
Even AAA MMO's are not stupid enough to put dividers between the pay-gap of their players, and games that have a VIP system in place, often put a lot of effort to ensure that the non-ViP members do not feel like second class citizens.
Which as it stands, seems to be what PG is doing, and IIRC they have a dev from DDO working for them, which means they should not be this stupid.
The fact that posters support this kind of divide, yes, I tend to agree, it is quite mind boggling.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go buy a bunch of crap from the cash shop just to piss off all the people that hate crash shops, might even buy me some loot boxes.
"the game did not click for me"
Not going to repeat them again.
Your assertions are ludicrous and everyone can see that. Nobody is being paid by the 2 person development team to shill for their game but if that makes you feel better go for it. It does make great reading. It’s the strongest example of why just letting people talk is the best way to address these issues. Much better to let folks expose themselves for all to see. And then having seen, folks can easily decide truth from strange fantasy reality.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Those that choose to contribute to the optional VIP program know everything you are shouting about. Their voluntary choice is an informed one.
Yes, all will be lost, except the progression. To the extent VIP helped that progression along, those that had it will be in a better position than without it. In a game where progress comes slowly that benefit alone could make VIP worth it to some. The benefits VIP provide will also be helpful in their rebuilding. On top of that, they will have whatever satisfaction they receive from helping P:G progress over that time.
Those that believe VIP isn't worth it will still have the progression they would have if the system didn't exist at all, essentially no worse off for it.
Your voluminous complaints over this are naught but dust in the wind, which is why your arguments fail to convince.
You're not a P:G hater. You are passionately arguing against a decision you don't agree with and believe will be bad for the game. That shows love for it, not hate.
I suspect you also feel backed into a corner in this, as you know what you feel to be impending doom is coming and for all your efforts you will not be able to stave it off. I believe this underlies much of your lashing out at those with a differing view.
You're arguments against VIP simply aren't all that good or presented well, which I think is due to the combined factors above. Your passion is such that is has become unchecked to the degree it is working against your arguments rather than support them.
Perhaps it would be best to take some time to recenter, and then renew your efforts in a more controlled state of mind. As things are now, you're doing your position on this more harm than good.
Look I think you are making some valid points. P2W elements I am generally strongly against. If this game was bankrolling money, I think your point would be much more valid, because it would be sheer greed. However I don't think they have been gouging people, desperate times require desperate measures, which is what this looks like to me.
I feel at this point they are just trying to keep the servers running and a little extra development.
Launch/release is just way to ambiguous now. People playing this game for years and want to say its not released yet because its "technically" in early access? Some feel a release is when they reset the servers. I don't have a good definition for a release, but its a gray area for sure. Do you really think this game will substantially improve in 18 months?
I am not white knighting this game believe me. These Devs make some really bad decisions. So here is a story for ya. So a couple years ago, I go on their forums and leave a single comment saying this game really needs to do something about the inventory management problem. Was about a paragraph how inventory management ruined the game for me.
For that, I check a few days ago, and my forum privilege's have all be revoked. Maybe its cause I haven't been on the forum in a few years I don't know, but it sure seems shady, like they don't take criticism well at all.
Anyways, at this point, I have to compare this game with everything else coming out. And there isn't much that isn't Pay 2 win with massive cash shops. What they are doing is not even as good as ESO, as they giving like 15 slots to character inventory, big whoop. I doubt its going to be enough to entice many to Sub. Doesn't sound like you think its worth it to sub either. But its their choice if they want to screw up their game or not. I pretty much think the people that paid their money got their monies worth already so end of story. If people expect to pay only $40 and have entertainment for a lifetime, that's just not realistic.
Yeeeaahh... nope.
I pointed out that voluntary VIP has value, as it should, as the money paid for it has value. That's pretty much how exchange traditionally works... you get something in exchange for something. That's not exactly a huge revelation, and has no direct connection to p2w. It's just how trade has always worked and always will.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Should you stay or should you go now? Good luck to those making that choice regardless what you decide. I wish you all well.
This game is all about leveling skills, getting rep, and getting gold.
So yes this is definitely Pay to win. You get free xp while you sleep, you get bag space that lets you collect and store more items which you can then sell for gold or turn in for rep. So every main function of this game is improved and has advantages if you pay for the sub. Which I believe is the very definition of pay to win.
Its not like we talking cosmetic only cash shop here. This sub is giving advantages to people that pay them period.
With that said, everyone knows this game is holding on by a thread. Their steam numbers are horrible. They could shut the game down, but they want to keep working on it. I honestly don't think the sub is going to be worth it, and few will come back even still. It sucks they have to resort to this. If they didn't have all these inventory management problems from the start and they put a bit more time into graphics maybe this game would have been more popular. But we have to deal with reality here and now, these devs don't really have much choices at this point.
I am sure if someone offered them $150k per year free and clear as an angel investor they would gladly take that and not do these drastic measures.
You suggest hire more coders? Uhmm are you forgetting something? Pretty sure a business needs money to hire people. Start with how you can give these guys $500k clear over 3yrs, then move from that point. If you want another coder, add another $500k over 3 yrs for each one. Then you will get a better picture of the problem.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo