They have it in the In-game store, so you do not need to leave the game to buy it, and that is making it confusing?
What game does that, where you need to leave the game to buy content? I mean, GW2 with their living world, had it set up so you buy the episodes in the in-game store, with in-game tokens, exactly like DDO.
So what game has it where you have to buy dungeon packs, outside the game? I mean, I get expansions, often because they are sold for real money.. a LOT of real money, and often offer Pre-order, so it's not in the game yet, so I can see why they might want to process that outside of the game.
I am just not getting the confusion here. You walk up to a Red Marked Quest Giver, they say "Piss off Or Buy the Pack" and have a button in the chat log to open the store and buy the pack, if you so wish, of you can flip them the bird and keep on doing the free content.
I really.. do not get the problem.
What you don't understand?
I go to the site to buy the game expansions and packs. Half is there, half is not. And they don't tell you that.
You log in the game and find there is more to buy from what you already bought.
It's that simple.
The part where you go to the game site to buy DLC packs.
I just don't get that, never played a MMO with small DLC's being bought outside the game, so that seems weird to me to even want that.
Must be a Single Player Game thing, where your first thought is to go to the steam store to buy DLC's.
Might be why we have a disconnect, but, with how MMO's are set up, I don't get the desire to want to go to the webstore for Small DLC's.
They aren't talking about buying small DLCs on the web store, they're talking about buying expansions on the web store, which is a pretty normal thing to do.
It's confusing and frustrating to buy an expansion and then, once in game, find out that you still don't own all the content from that expansion.
Of course, the way to avoid all that is to just subscribe, buy expansions and play like you would any other P2P MMO.
DDO, when they put out Menace of the Under Dark, which was a Forgotten Realms Expansion, they later added, like over the course of the next 2 years, several additional packs, The High Road, Shadowfell Conspiracy, Stormhorns, etc, each being their own Adventure Pack, while you needed to own the Expansion to access them at all, they were still separately made add-ons too that Expansion World, and thus sold separately.
While I thought that was a great idea, to continual development and expand upon an Expansion Setting, after all, why waste all that potential with a once and done, if you don't have to. But thanks to this thread, I see that concept was too damn hard for some people to grasp.
But this topic now does explain why DDO stopped doing that after MOTUD, and all other Expansions were one-shot dead end content, with nothing added to them later, it seems they were testing the idea out with MOTUD, and, while I thought it was an amazing and brilliant way to keep the game growing, it seems others did not share that view, and no doubt cried endlessly that they were being hoodwinked, even if they were not.
Which does explain why all future expansion content was a one shot dead-end content, it seems because for some people it was just too damn hard to grasp the idea of adding to and continuing to develop an Expansion Setting.
Not to sound cliche' but .. This is why we can't have nice things.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
They have it in the In-game store, so you do not need to leave the game to buy it, and that is making it confusing?
What game does that, where you need to leave the game to buy content? I mean, GW2 with their living world, had it set up so you buy the episodes in the in-game store, with in-game tokens, exactly like DDO.
So what game has it where you have to buy dungeon packs, outside the game? I mean, I get expansions, often because they are sold for real money.. a LOT of real money, and often offer Pre-order, so it's not in the game yet, so I can see why they might want to process that outside of the game.
I am just not getting the confusion here. You walk up to a Red Marked Quest Giver, they say "Piss off Or Buy the Pack" and have a button in the chat log to open the store and buy the pack, if you so wish, of you can flip them the bird and keep on doing the free content.
I really.. do not get the problem.
What you don't understand?
I go to the site to buy the game expansions and packs. Half is there, half is not. And they don't tell you that.
You log in the game and find there is more to buy from what you already bought.
It's that simple.
The part where you go to the game site to buy DLC packs.
I just don't get that, never played a MMO with small DLC's being bought outside the game, so that seems weird to me to even want that.
Must be a Single Player Game thing, where your first thought is to go to the steam store to buy DLC's.
Might be why we have a disconnect, but, with how MMO's are set up, I don't get the desire to want to go to the webstore for Small DLC's.
They aren't talking about buying small DLCs on the web store, they're talking about buying expansions on the web store, which is a pretty normal thing to do.
It's confusing and frustrating to buy an expansion and then, once in game, find out that you still don't own all the content from that expansion.
Of course, the way to avoid all that is to just subscribe, buy expansions and play like you would any other P2P MMO.
DDO, when they put out Menace of the Under Dark, which was a Forgotten Realms Expansion, they later added, like over the course of the next 2 years, several additional packs, The High Road, Shadowfell Conspiracy, Stormhorns, etc, each being their own Adventure Pack, while you needed to own the Expansion to access them at all, they were still separately made add-ons too that Expansion World, and thus sold separately.
While I thought that was a great idea, to continual development and expand upon an Expansion Setting, after all, why waste all that potential with a once and done, if you don't have to. But thanks to this thread, I see that concept was too damn hard for some people to grasp.
But this topic now does explain why DDO stopped doing that after MOTUD, and all other Expansions were one-shot dead end content, with nothing added to them later, it seems they were testing the idea out with MOTUD, and, while I thought it was an amazing and brilliant way to keep the game growing, it seems others did not share that view, and no doubt cried endlessly that they were being hoodwinked, even if they were not.
Which does explain why all future expansion content was a one shot dead-end content, it seems because for some people it was just too damn hard to grasp the idea of adding to and continuing to develop an Expansion Setting.
Not to sound cliche' but .. This is why we can't have nice things.
It makes sense if you're currently playing the game, it makes zero sense as a brand new player who knows nothing about what content is included with what.
I don't have a huge problem with the current monetization because I already own everything in LOTRO. It doesn't bother me to buy things as they release. But, I can look at things from another perspective and see that it needs change if they want to entice new and returning players.
You might but happy with the current monetization, but clearly SSG (and a whole lot of potential players) aren't.
Well of course SSG is not happy, they have to make content for their money, were they could just pump out loot boxes and take advantage of people, like some people have mentioned that would rather the situation be.. which is fucked up.
personally I Can't wait to see that Train wreck happen, and drink the tears of everyone that was unhappy with the old system wishing they would go back to the old system when the new system launches.
Now, they haven't tested any really stupid monetary ideas yet with DDO, which is often their trial and test game, so.. I am not sure what they will do with LOTRO, so this might be as much a surprise to me, as it will be to you all.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
All the freeloaders who refuse to pay for VIP, then cry about having to pay $60 for the expansion bundle, which includes 6 expansions.....so about $10 each. Meanwhile you can play most of the game for free. It is absurd what free to play did to this genre. This game is 100% worth the money and it requires funding to stay afloat. Frankly, if you don't think this game is worth $60 or a monthly fee then you don't appreciate it enough to be playing it in my opinion. Don't need you.
Its honestly fucking sad people like those I equate to parasitic little karens who get fed but it isn't enough for them
They're not parasites, but symbiotes, as most MMORPGs need them to survive.
They have it in the In-game store, so you do not need to leave the game to buy it, and that is making it confusing?
What game does that, where you need to leave the game to buy content? I mean, GW2 with their living world, had it set up so you buy the episodes in the in-game store, with in-game tokens, exactly like DDO.
So what game has it where you have to buy dungeon packs, outside the game? I mean, I get expansions, often because they are sold for real money.. a LOT of real money, and often offer Pre-order, so it's not in the game yet, so I can see why they might want to process that outside of the game.
I am just not getting the confusion here. You walk up to a Red Marked Quest Giver, they say "Piss off Or Buy the Pack" and have a button in the chat log to open the store and buy the pack, if you so wish, of you can flip them the bird and keep on doing the free content.
I really.. do not get the problem.
What you don't understand?
I go to the site to buy the game expansions and packs. Half is there, half is not. And they don't tell you that.
You log in the game and find there is more to buy from what you already bought.
It's that simple.
The part where you go to the game site to buy DLC packs.
I just don't get that, never played a MMO with small DLC's being bought outside the game, so that seems weird to me to even want that.
Must be a Single Player Game thing, where your first thought is to go to the steam store to buy DLC's.
Might be why we have a disconnect, but, with how MMO's are set up, I don't get the desire to want to go to the webstore for Small DLC's.
They aren't talking about buying small DLCs on the web store, they're talking about buying expansions on the web store, which is a pretty normal thing to do.
It's confusing and frustrating to buy an expansion and then, once in game, find out that you still don't own all the content from that expansion.
Of course, the way to avoid all that is to just subscribe, buy expansions and play like you would any other P2P MMO.
DDO, when they put out Menace of the Under Dark, which was a Forgotten Realms Expansion, they later added, like over the course of the next 2 years, several additional packs, The High Road, Shadowfell Conspiracy, Stormhorns, etc, each being their own Adventure Pack, while you needed to own the Expansion to access them at all, they were still separately made add-ons too that Expansion World, and thus sold separately.
While I thought that was a great idea, to continual development and expand upon an Expansion Setting, after all, why waste all that potential with a once and done, if you don't have to. But thanks to this thread, I see that concept was too damn hard for some people to grasp.
But this topic now does explain why DDO stopped doing that after MOTUD, and all other Expansions were one-shot dead end content, with nothing added to them later, it seems they were testing the idea out with MOTUD, and, while I thought it was an amazing and brilliant way to keep the game growing, it seems others did not share that view, and no doubt cried endlessly that they were being hoodwinked, even if they were not.
Which does explain why all future expansion content was a one shot dead-end content, it seems because for some people it was just too damn hard to grasp the idea of adding to and continuing to develop an Expansion Setting.
Not to sound cliche' but .. This is why we can't have nice things.
It makes sense if you're currently playing the game, it makes zero sense as a brand new player who knows nothing about what content is included with what.
I don't have a huge problem with the current monetization because I already own everything in LOTRO. It doesn't bother me to buy things as they release. But, I can look at things from another perspective and see that it needs change if they want to entice new and returning players.
You might but happy with the current monetization, but clearly SSG (and a whole lot of potential players) aren't.
Well of course SSG is not happy, they have to make content for their money, were they could just pump out loot boxes and take advantage of people, like some people have mentioned that would rather the situation be.. which is fucked up.
personally I Can't wait to see that Train wreck happen, and drink the tears of everyone that was unhappy with the old system wishing they would go back to the old system when the new system launches.
Now, they haven't tested any really stupid monetary ideas yet with DDO, which is often their trial and test game, so.. I am not sure what they will do with LOTRO, so this might be as much a surprise to me, as it will be to you all.
Well, they already have loot boxes that you need keys from the store to open, so there's that.
The problem is this game charges for literally everything it can. There is very little given for free in this "F2P" game. You get the first 20 levels of content for free, that's really pathetic compared to pretty much every other F2P MMO on the market. Except, I'm guessing, DDO (never played it).
Hell, you get the same amount of levels, more zones, more quests, more dungeons and more PvP when playing WoW for free. A P2P game is damn near more free than LOTRO.
When you consider that this game is basically B2P, since you cannot really play it without spending money, what's on offer is even more pathetic.
But, I guess the only sensible thing to do is assume that, whatever they do, it will be worse than what we currently have and already declare it a failure. After all, the status quo is better than the unknown.
We had a Completionist F2P account in DDO.. so.. it's really just a matter of how hardcore you are.
As for Fiscal, it's just silly think they will opt to somehow make less money.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Current LoTRO monetizing isn’t horrible, it is just a mess and all over the place, like an all you can eat buffet after an earthquake.
Not only does this require more effort on the part of the customer to figure out what is what and why the what is where, it also creates the idea that monetization is everywhere in the game. And although that is kind of true, the current presentation of it all gives a worse impression than what is actually happening.
It is also pretty P2W unfortunately and lacks the current industry standards of implementation since it was one of the first games to introduce these mechanics. Time for an update, definitely.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Stizzled said: Well, they already have loot boxes that you need keys from the store to open, so there's that.
The problem is this game charges for literally everything it can. There is very little given for free in this "F2P" game. You get the first 20 levels of content for free, that's really pathetic compared to pretty much every other F2P MMO on the market. Except, I'm guessing, DDO (never played it).
Hell, you get the same amount of levels, more zones, more quests, more dungeons and more PvP when playing WoW for free. A P2P game is damn near more free than LOTRO.
When you consider that this game is basically B2P, since you cannot really play it without spending money, what's on offer is even more pathetic.
But, I guess the only sensible thing to do is assume that, whatever they do, it will be worse than what we currently have and already declare it a failure. After all, the status quo is better than the unknown.
We had a Completionist F2P account in DDO.. so.. it's really just a matter of how hardcore you are.
As for Fiscal, it's just silly think they will opt to somehow make less money.
It's entirely possible they could make more money by bringing in more players with lower prices and/or monetizing fewer features.
What's silly is making negative assumptions when we know nothing about what might change.
It's possible, but then again, it's also possible that 10 million people might be playing it at the end of the year.. I mean if we are going to talk pie in the sky day dreams, why keep things small.
Reality Check, the game is over 16 years old, and has been using it's current monetary system for the last, roughly 8 years, it was sold 5 years ago, because simply put, they were not profitable enough to WB to bother to keep alive.
Knowing that, it is naïve to think that they are going to suddenly change things to make less money off their existing product, when it is barely making by already, with absolutely zero guarantees to attract a single new player because of it.
And, lets be honest, it's an old game, it attracts a very niche crowed, and it's graphics are very, very, dated.
At this point in their life, without a complete graphics overhaul, they are not going to bring in much in the way of new blood, especially not from the modern gaming crowed that uses BDO as the metric by which they mark acceptable MMO graphics.
Ideally, they would be better served to just streamline their store, to make the process easier for players to know what they need to buy, and what is included with each purchase, and what is not. Not that this helps much against block headed people that just expect to get everything, even if it is clearly laid out and said them, that they will not.
While I would not be surprised if there was some kind of explanation on why they are dropping the lifetime subs as well, that does sound like something to keep on the lookout, after all, as SSG has not made a cent off those for last 5 years since they took over, so those are just dead weight accounts, assuming they actual dead weight, and that the players with them don't buy additional points all the time. Chances are however, I would wager they are mainly dead weight, and they will explain why they need to end them, or at the very least, revise them. Perhaps put in tiers of VIP, with the Lifetime being the bottom tier.
With that said, I support B2P games, again, I stand by my belief that selling the game and content, is the most honest way to have a transaction between the Developer and Gamer.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
They most likely are not going to increase their playerbase very much...why?....The game is old and it is showing its age....Also they do little to market it.....So their options are to try and make as much as they can off their existing customer base.
It doesn't help that the graphics update they'll be doing for the game by 2022 isn't going to be much of anything according to an interview from their lead producer. That's probably the #1 thing that'd bring back a large audience.
I totally agree. A full graphics update would in fact bring in a lot of new blood.. along with fixing their optimization issues.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think most old games that are F2P are like this because they aren't built around the F2P at its conception. Therefore the system is all tacked on and modified and looks bad if you don't go and read some guide on what to get and how to unlock.
I always sub so I just get everything I need and get the latest expansion like EQ2 which gives you all the previous expansions.
This is a really long thread I quit reading at the top of page 5. First I am sorry to see Wizardry banned he made some crazy posts I always enjoyed reading his take I honestly believe that he is mostly just messing with us.
Back on topic I have played Lotro since 2007 with off time for ESO and a few games here and there. The F2p transition was shocking and hurtful and something the game didn't need. With the free to play also came an attitude of you don't own that content and the players were now treated as enemies instead of partners. Some devs like a community manager I wont name made some real poorly thought out posts to defend their position. Which was DDO is printing money so were going for a ride.
I do think there cash shop and in game store are confusing as sometimes they sell Turbine points (i refuse to call it anything else) in game for big discounts but the market place does not or the other way around it is weird that they don't sell them at the same time. We, my wife and I have three accounts between the two of us. Two are lifetime accounts that was an amazing deal. I still by the expansions and Usually I'm a sucker and buy the biggest one I also buy points when there on sale. I just budget for it and I do not mind. Some of the things in the store are ticky tacky like the boosted crafting speed (you get this if you are a subscriber now as a benefit) to me it said we get that crafting takes forever and we can obviously make it better but your going to pay every time which is dumb. Now that subscribers get it for free I have little issue with it because it is a great value. My main thing is I just wish they did not nickel and dime it so much. You have such a good game maybe with some grey hairs now, but you shouldn't need to do that.
Anyhow my two cents at 2:17 am on a plane that doesn't look like its going to be on time something about hurricanes I say fly through it. I really hope whatever Wizardy did is not permanent I will honestly miss him.
Don't ban me for having a soft heart for some one who has been here before I got here in 2005 Please.
I think many actually miss him. I know I do.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
There was quite a bit of ranting, but I still checked his posts because when he was calm he was quite insightful. It's funny but they say you don't miss something until it's gone, how apt.
Comments
DDO, when they put out Menace of the Under Dark, which was a Forgotten Realms Expansion, they later added, like over the course of the next 2 years, several additional packs, The High Road, Shadowfell Conspiracy, Stormhorns, etc, each being their own Adventure Pack, while you needed to own the Expansion to access them at all, they were still separately made add-ons too that Expansion World, and thus sold separately.
While I thought that was a great idea, to continual development and expand upon an Expansion Setting, after all, why waste all that potential with a once and done, if you don't have to. But thanks to this thread, I see that concept was too damn hard for some people to grasp.
But this topic now does explain why DDO stopped doing that after MOTUD, and all other Expansions were one-shot dead end content, with nothing added to them later, it seems they were testing the idea out with MOTUD, and, while I thought it was an amazing and brilliant way to keep the game growing, it seems others did not share that view, and no doubt cried endlessly that they were being hoodwinked, even if they were not.
Which does explain why all future expansion content was a one shot dead-end content, it seems because for some people it was just too damn hard to grasp the idea of adding to and continuing to develop an Expansion Setting.
Not to sound cliche' but .. This is why we can't have nice things.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
personally I Can't wait to see that Train wreck happen, and drink the tears of everyone that was unhappy with the old system wishing they would go back to the old system when the new system launches.
Now, they haven't tested any really stupid monetary ideas yet with DDO, which is often their trial and test game, so.. I am not sure what they will do with LOTRO, so this might be as much a surprise to me, as it will be to you all.
They're not parasites, but symbiotes, as most MMORPGs need them to survive.
As for Fiscal, it's just silly think they will opt to somehow make less money.
It is also pretty P2W unfortunately and lacks the current industry standards of implementation since it was one of the first games to introduce these mechanics. Time for an update, definitely.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Reality Check, the game is over 16 years old, and has been using it's current monetary system for the last, roughly 8 years, it was sold 5 years ago, because simply put, they were not profitable enough to WB to bother to keep alive.
Knowing that, it is naïve to think that they are going to suddenly change things to make less money off their existing product, when it is barely making by already, with absolutely zero guarantees to attract a single new player because of it.
And, lets be honest, it's an old game, it attracts a very niche crowed, and it's graphics are very, very, dated.
At this point in their life, without a complete graphics overhaul, they are not going to bring in much in the way of new blood, especially not from the modern gaming crowed that uses BDO as the metric by which they mark acceptable MMO graphics.
Ideally, they would be better served to just streamline their store, to make the process easier for players to know what they need to buy, and what is included with each purchase, and what is not. Not that this helps much against block headed people that just expect to get everything, even if it is clearly laid out and said them, that they will not.
While I would not be surprised if there was some kind of explanation on why they are dropping the lifetime subs as well, that does sound like something to keep on the lookout, after all, as SSG has not made a cent off those for last 5 years since they took over, so those are just dead weight accounts, assuming they actual dead weight, and that the players with them don't buy additional points all the time. Chances are however, I would wager they are mainly dead weight, and they will explain why they need to end them, or at the very least, revise them. Perhaps put in tiers of VIP, with the Lifetime being the bottom tier.
With that said, I support B2P games, again, I stand by my belief that selling the game and content, is the most honest way to have a transaction between the Developer and Gamer.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I always sub so I just get everything I need and get the latest expansion like EQ2 which gives you all the previous expansions.
Back on topic I have played Lotro since 2007 with off time for ESO and a few games here and there. The F2p transition was shocking and hurtful and something the game didn't need. With the free to play also came an attitude of you don't own that content and the players were now treated as enemies instead of partners. Some devs like a community manager I wont name made some real poorly thought out posts to defend their position. Which was DDO is printing money so were going for a ride.
I do think there cash shop and in game store are confusing as sometimes they sell Turbine points (i refuse to call it anything else) in game for big discounts but the market place does not or the other way around it is weird that they don't sell them at the same time.
We, my wife and I have three accounts between the two of us. Two are lifetime accounts that was an amazing deal. I still by the expansions and Usually I'm a sucker and buy the biggest one I also buy points when there on sale. I just budget for it and I do not mind. Some of the things in the store are ticky tacky like the boosted crafting speed (you get this if you are a subscriber now as a benefit) to me it said we get that crafting takes forever and we can obviously make it better but your going to pay every time which is dumb. Now that subscribers get it for free I have little issue with it because it is a great value. My main thing is I just wish they did not nickel and dime it so much. You have such a good game maybe with some grey hairs now, but you shouldn't need to do that.
Anyhow my two cents at 2:17 am on a plane that doesn't look like its going to be on time something about hurricanes I say fly through it.
I really hope whatever Wizardy did is not permanent I will honestly miss him.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer