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MMO ReRoll - Dungeons & Dragons Online | MMORPG.com

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Loved the write up, all things said and done, and yes, DDO is bar none the closest you can you get in an MMO sense to playing a game of D&D, right down to the campy DM narration.

    As for spending money.. If you wanna do that, you can, and I for one thank you for your patronage and supporting the game, I often suggest just getting a Sub to start with, as that gives you all the non-expansion content, Like all the Original Sub Based MMO's I: EQ, WOW, DAOC, etc, and Expansions where always in addition to the sub.

    Now, one of the better sale points of DDO, is that you can earn many things in game from just playing the game, like you can earn Drow, Favored Soul, 32 Points Build, Vet 4, Vet 7, Tomes, DDO Points, Bag Space, Bank Space, and other things as well.

    So there are ample rewards that while you could buy in the store, you can also earn just from playing the game.

    Now if you want to buy things from the store, like Rez Cakes, Mana Pots, Etc, that is on you, normally smart game play typically saves you from needing things like rez cakes and mana pots, but some people just like to mindlessly power through content, but, I gotta say, if you are scarfing Rez Cakes to beat a dungeon, you might really want to re-think your tactics... just saying.



    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Nebless said:
    Scot said:
    and there was no PvP at least I can't remember any.
    Pvp was always restricted to the fighting areas inside some of the Taverns and was more of a 'test out your build' type of thing.
    That is all I have really seen it used for.. build testing.. maybe some fun duels, like "Check out this One trick Kill anyone Build" I just made.

    But, since there is no reward for PvP in DDO, it's not something anyone wants to waste time with.. when we can instead we can work together and charge off on adventure For Loot and Glory!
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Nebless said:
    lonesol said:
    This is a sub game, plus 200 in expansions, then over 500 in the cash shop for tomes, and various other things.  
    While I'll agree with you on the expansion costs (although they do go on sale from time to time and DDO gave the first 2 away for just 99 points last year).  I don't agree with the $500 store costs.

    You want to buy Tomes that's on YOU, totally optional.  In fact with the exception of the dungeon packs and expansions EVERYTHING in the store is optional and not needed to play the game.
    This.. I mean, really, ViP gives you a bunch of races, classes, all non-expansion content, elite open, and 500 TP a month. 

    I mean, You would want the Expansions, as they are pretty fun, but really, they are not that expansive if money is an issue:
    Saltmarsh $20
    Feywild: $40
    Sharn $40
    Expansion Bundle: $60 (Ravenloft, Shadowfell, Menace of the Underdark)

    And truth be told, you can get some of the older expansions with Points that you can earn in game or buy, so, might even be able to get a better deal.

    I would say a Shared Bank, which is also super handy, and allows you to transfer BtA items across your characters.

    But things like 32 point build, Drow, Favored Souls, are not worth buying, as you can earn those vis Favor Rewards, and Tomes can be earned by doing content.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • PoorOld_GamerGentPoorOld_GamerGent Member UncommonPosts: 25
    Yet another great ReRoll!

    Kind of late to comment (not here too much recently :) ), and the smaller notes are already done by Nebless and kitarad, in that Eberron was Wizards' pick, and free newcomer players indeed better off with subscribing for at least a month, respectively.

    Regardless of the responsible party, I agree though, the setting has pulled DDO back a bit. Eberron is unique and interesting, but one of the lesser known settings (sitting in the corner with Greyhawk probably). 

    Turbine's simply had a bad timing, at the time of making the game Wizards was heavily pushing Eberron, the D&D 3.5 was published a year before the first beta of DDO, books and campaigns were released in those few years years - yet it didn't manage to properly take off...
    So by the time Turbine launched DDO, WotC has already left it behind and very soon after (next year) D&D 4e was published, with a return to the more popular Forgotten Realms.
    And thus Eberron was forgotten as well by them.

    A year later Turbine switched DDO to f2p, and added Forgotten Realms into it, but the core game, and what new players meet, is still Eberron, which indeed can be a bit of a drawback.


    The rest was spot on, I only missed the chart at the end, to see where you rate the experience, and if it's higher or lower than CO - though as a veteran player it might be more challenging to get a proper "new player experience" feel.

    The only question left is, AoC ReRoll when? :)  


    (also, when you see MikeB, give him a nudge to check his inbox, haha)
    Ungood
  • SarlaSarla Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Its pretty good game, but the lack of players and the 1999 grafix kill it for me
    Ungood
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Sarla said:
    Its pretty good game, but the lack of players and the 1999 grafix kill it for me
    those 1999 graphics for a game made in 2006.

    Truth be told, the graphics are dated, but it's an odd mix, you can see how the new content has better graphics, but you are still running a character creation model made in 2006, so everything feels... dated.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,385
    edited October 2021
    I don't think the graphics are from 1999. I mean that would be EQ and AC graphics but DDO is better than that. It has way more detail than anything from 1999.

    Plus graphics should seriously be the very last thing one should grouse about if the game is good. I am playing Diablo 2 now the resurrected version which looks awesome and I recall playing it in 2000 on a lap top and still being wowed by the atmosphere of the game.



    ScotUngood
    Garrus Signature
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,096
    edited October 2021
    cheyane said:
    I don't think the graphics are from 1999. I mean that would be EQ and AC graphics but DDO is better than that. It has way more detail than anything from 1999.




    I think it was not to take it literally.

    DDO's graphics were passable back in 2006 together with LOTRO.

    The difference though, is that LOTRO ended up being more popular and got quite a few graphics improvements over time, which DDO never got.

    So DDO has honestly not aged very well.

    Next to that, by now due to being it practically in maintenance mode for long time, it has not that much of a population left sadly.

    I tried to get back into it time to time over the years, but especially with new characters right now it's a real struggle. It's a constant complaint from people trying the game and quitting shortly after due to no one to group with.

    But the major issue (and this applies to LOTRO as well) is that all servers are running in the US now, so if you're outside the US (like me in Northern Europe) you will experience frequent lag spikes in the game.
    LOTRO is even worse, with constant stuttering on latest high-end hardware in many areas of the game. This has been present for years with endless complaints in the forums.
    And this will never be fixed/optimized, since they simply don't have the competence in-house anymore.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,385
    edited October 2021
    JeroKane said:
    cheyane said:
    I don't think the graphics are from 1999. I mean that would be EQ and AC graphics but DDO is better than that. It has way more detail than anything from 1999.




    I think it was not to take it literally.

    DDO's graphics were passable back in 2006 together with LOTRO.

    The difference though, is that LOTRO ended up being more popular and got quite a few graphics improvements over time, which DDO never got.

    So DDO has honestly not aged very well.

    Next to that, by now due to being it practically in maintenance mode for long time, it has not that much of a population left sadly.

    I tried to get back into it time to time over the years, but especially with new characters right now it's a real struggle.
    I can understand that but DDO has narration and atmosphere that has not really been rivalled except in a single player game. I recall on my last foray playing this last year how I did this quest where there was this daughter of a bishop or some high ranking guy who was considered mad. That whole place was so brilliantly designed and atmospheric. I haven't come across anything that powerful in any MMORPG since except Secret World. Secret World had places that downright spooked me. I recall I jumped out of my skin when that Wendigo accosted me in the car park.

    You have to take the sum of things and not just focus on the graphics.
    Garrus Signature
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    JeroKane said:
    cheyane said:
    I don't think the graphics are from 1999. I mean that would be EQ and AC graphics but DDO is better than that. It has way more detail than anything from 1999.




    I think it was not to take it literally.

    DDO's graphics were passable back in 2006 together with LOTRO.

    The difference though, is that LOTRO ended up being more popular and got quite a few graphics improvements over time, which DDO never got.

    So DDO has honestly not aged very well.

    Next to that, by now due to being it practically in maintenance mode for long time, it has not that much of a population left sadly.

    I tried to get back into it time to time over the years, but especially with new characters right now it's a real struggle.
    Wait.. DDO is nowhere near Maintenance Mode, they just put out a new Expansion, Saltmarsh, are doing a rework of Epic Destines, as well as a bunch of QoL upgrades, and are putting out Mabar (Halloween Event) With new Items.

    So it nowhere near Maintenance Mode.

    The graphics are dated, no joke, and to be honest, they could get a lot of mileage out of simply updating character models, and it was made in 2006, before the whole cosmetic expulsion of MMO's.
    Sovrath
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,096
    edited October 2021
    Heh. I would not go as far as calling it an expansion. This game hasn't gotten a real expansion in how many years now?

    Content update with re-used assets. Sure. With insanely overpriced bundles. Exact same tactic as with LOTRO.

    The last so called expac they released for LOTRO last year was so laughingly bad. It almost looked like they used MS Paint to recolor some old textures and NPC's to make them look new.
    The expac before that was even worse, which had so many balance issues with the content (people getting one-shotted by mobs, broken quests, etc), as QA is non-existent too of course. /shrug

    I am not joking. They simply don't have the resources and competence in-house anymore, to do any real fixes/optimizations on these two games nor creating really new assets or building fully fledged expansions.
    Everything needs to be done with what they currently have.

    Those QoL improvements? Which ones? At most very basic ones that are not too difficult or require minimum effort with some mouse clicking around in their toolbox. /shrug

    The lead dev in LOTRO is his own worst enemy and continuously doing more harm to the game, breaking more stuff than he fixes and doing overhauls on systems he has no competence on and no one is asking for. See the incoming LI revamp backlash and how he is ignoring the community anger yet again and pushes it through anyway. /facepalm

    I hope for you, that the dev inside SSG that works on DDO is a bit more competent lol. :expressionless:
    Post edited by JeroKane on
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,096
    edited October 2021
    cheyane said:

    I can understand that but DDO has narration and atmosphere that has not really been rivalled except in a single player game. I recall on my last foray playing this last year how I did this quest where there was this daughter of a bishop or some high ranking guy who was considered mad. That whole place was so brilliantly designed and atmospheric. I haven't come across anything that powerful in any MMORPG since except Secret World. Secret World had places that downright spooked me. I recall I jumped out of my skin when that Wendigo accosted me in the car park.

    You have to take the sum of things and not just focus on the graphics.
    I really miss the old Secret World. It was such a fantastic MMO with great community.

    It could be hard to get into and get beyond the initial difficulty barrier, creating a build that worked.

    The Secret World Legends relaunch was an outright disaster and destroyed the community that was left outright. A real shame.

    All they had to do was fix Tokyo in the original game. As that was horribly unbalanced and were the majority of people end up quiting over (me included).  /shrug
    cheyane
  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,871
    JeroKane said:

    I tried to get back into it time to time over the years, but especially with new characters right now it's a real struggle. It's a constant complaint from people trying the game and quitting shortly after due to no one to group with.


    While a D&D game screams 'group', I think the main problem isn't so much as no people to group with, but not the right people for new players to group with and that's very much on SSG and the Reaper Mode they introduced.

    While originally intended for just those older players wanting something new to do, it's become the norm for all and my take is that's what those new players are running up against.

    Low level normal content grouping is still there, but unless you're on one of the special event servers where all start at lvl 1, the pop is just to spread out on the normal servers to find it easily.

    LotRO has addressed this issue by doing a number of what they call Legendary and I call fresh start servers, but they too quickly end up with the pop spread out because people play at different speeds.

    While you can play DDO solo, it does lose that 'sitting around a table for group play' vibe.

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    JeroKane said:
    Heh. I would not go as far as calling it an expansion. This game hasn't gotten a real expansion in how many years now?

    Content update with re-used assets. Sure. With insanely overpriced bundles. Exact same tactic as with LOTRO.

    The last so called expac they released for LOTRO last year was so laughingly bad. It almost looked like they used MS Paint to recolor some old textures and NPC's to make them look new.
    The expac before that was even worse, which had so many balance issues with the content (people getting one-shotted by mobs, broken quests, etc), as QA is non-existent too of course. /shrug

    I am not joking. They simply don't have the resources and competence in-house anymore, to do any real fixes/optimizations on these two games nor creating really new assets or building fully fledged expansions.
    Everything needs to be done with what they currently have.

    Those QoL improvements? Which ones? At most very basic ones that are not too difficult or require minimum effort with some mouse clicking around in their toolbox. /shrug

    The lead dev in LOTRO is his own worst enemy and continuously doing more harm to the game, breaking more stuff than he fixes and doing overhauls on systems he has no competence on and no one is asking for. See the incoming LI revamp backlash and how he is ignoring the community anger yet again and pushes it through anyway. /facepalm

    I hope for you, that the dev inside SSG that works on DDO is a bit more competent lol.


    Well, Lets see, DDO expansions:

    Menace of the Underdark 2012
    Shadowfell - 2013
    Mists of Ravenloft - 2017
    Masterminds of Sharn - 2019
    Feywild - 2020
    Saltmarsh - 2021.
    10 Heroic Quests, 10 Epic Quests, a Outdoor Zone, A whole new Enhancement Line, Bunch of Gear, a crafting Upgrade.. yah.. that's an expansion IMHO. Not as big as MOTUD, but bigger than say Shadowfell.

    Anyway, that looks quite an active game if you ask me. And that is not including a LOT of Quest/Adventure Packs that have been put out.

    Here is the List for U50.

    So, this game is doing better then a lot of other games out there.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Nebless said:
    JeroKane said:

    I tried to get back into it time to time over the years, but especially with new characters right now it's a real struggle. It's a constant complaint from people trying the game and quitting shortly after due to no one to group with.


    While a D&D game screams 'group', I think the main problem isn't so much as no people to group with, but not the right people for new players to group with and that's very much on SSG and the Reaper Mode they introduced.

    While originally intended for just those older players wanting something new to do, it's become the norm for all and my take is that's what those new players are running up against.

    Low level normal content grouping is still there, but unless you're on one of the special event servers where all start at lvl 1, the pop is just to spread out on the normal servers to find it easily.

    LotRO has addressed this issue by doing a number of what they call Legendary and I call fresh start servers, but they too quickly end up with the pop spread out because people play at different speeds.

    While you can play DDO solo, it does lose that 'sitting around a table for group play' vibe.
    There is a lot of "Reaper or you Suck" mentality in DDO.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    kitarad said:
    My god all this whining about paying. All your problems solved with just subbing. If the game is good enough throw some money on it. The current state of MMORPGs is because people just refuse to pay to play something worth a sub.

    Love the dungeon narration and mechanics. Great game and you can disarm most traps with a few points in rogue.

    If a game offers a f2p option the nature of it is subject to critique. It is not whining to point out where that system is lacking or how it compares poorly to others. All problems related to f2p are indeed solved by subscription but not everyone has the funds available to subscribe to every game of interest to them.

    It's a good game, but not enough so to allocate my limited subscription funds to. Their f2p model isn't good enough for me to play the game without while making occasional purchases to improve my experience as funds allow.

    The current state of MMORPGs is due to companies offering and players eagerly accepting f2p to begin with. That battle is long since lost, making the quality of the f2p offered by a game more the issue than the presence of it.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    kitarad said:
    My god all this whining about paying. All your problems solved with just subbing. If the game is good enough throw some money on it. The current state of MMORPGs is because people just refuse to pay to play something worth a sub.

    Love the dungeon narration and mechanics. Great game and you can disarm most traps with a few points in rogue.

    If a game offers a f2p option the nature of it is subject to critique. It is not whining to point out where that system is lacking or how it compares poorly to others. All problems related to f2p are indeed solved by subscription but not everyone has the funds available to subscribe to every game of interest to them.

    It's a good game, but not enough so to allocate my limited subscription funds to. Their f2p model isn't good enough for me to play the game without while making occasional purchases to improve my experience as funds allow.

    The current state of MMORPGs is due to companies offering and players eagerly accepting f2p to begin with. That battle is long since lost, making the quality of the f2p offered by a game more the issue than the presence of it.

    F2P was a last resort for DDO....IT was running on fumes when they made that decision, and it turned out to be a good one.....Its not my favorite f2p system but it seems to work for them.
    Ungood
  • PoorOld_GamerGentPoorOld_GamerGent Member UncommonPosts: 25
    It is not whining to point out where that system is lacking or how it compares poorly to others.
    I digress about poorly, Turbine's model was the best approach of handling f2p.
    It was the most fair to the players, especially on the long run - and that, I believe is the key factor, the acceptance (and later even the demand) of instant gratification.

    Just look at all the "entry barrier is too high" whine about LotRO in the past years, players tend to prefer having all up front, even if means a much more predatory model later - sure, many of those fail to stay for that long any way... instant gratification with short attention span is the bane of the more honest and/or subscription-based models, unfortunately.

    It's up to preferences, at the end. For a lot of players Turbine's model (though SSG years did some dent in it) was better, much cheaper than any other games over a year or two.
    Sure, to the players of: "Look, this and that games give so much more for free, and I'll be gone in a month" this might seem "lacking or how it compares poorly".
    But it ain't the model's fault, just misplaced expectations.

    Anyhow, for those players they offer now a coupon like last year, with more than enough content to take the wind out of those whiners' sails.
    It has even more than the previous code actually, worth to apply to those as well who used the coupon last year.
    (additional unlocks are the mid-level adventure Peril of the Planar Eyes, and the Eveningstar Challenge Pack)



    Mitch, for the CO piece my usual sidenote about ATs :)
    The Blood Moon event (halloween) started yesterday, where you can unlock yet more ATs for free, by participating the event.
    This first week it's only the Cursed and Scourge are on the list (Cursed is something like the Ghost Rider, Scourge is the same with poison instead of blood), later weeks will add the Witch and the Savage too.
    There are also Become devices (toggles to switch the character into pre-defined and themed "classes" with their own powersets, look and movement), so far only the Vampire and the Werewolf is at the barter vendors.
    ScotUngood
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    It is not whining to point out where that system is lacking or how it compares poorly to others.
    I digress about poorly, Turbine's model was the best approach of handling f2p.
    It was the most fair to the players, especially on the long run - and that, I believe is the key factor, the acceptance (and later even the demand) of instant gratification.

    I have to agree with you 100% here. The original idea of buying content, and playing the content to earn the rewards remains the most honest and fair approach I have ever seen in a F2P MMO. 

    I admit, I have not been a fan of the whole "Buy Cosmetics" game, I would much rather buy the content and earn the cosmetic.

    Of course people that want not only instant gratification but also everything for free, would find a problem with a game payment system where everyone was expected to support the development of additional content for the game by being expected to buy said content, as opposed to trying to pass off the buck to the whales that buy cosmetics and other frivolous things, then they cry about how the whales have all the cool stuff, and other such nonsense.

    Selling content packs, will always be, In my mind, the best means by which a F2P game should be marketed and sold.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

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