New World has just barely enough of everything

olepi

I've been playing since launch, did the last beta some. I'm only level 15 or so now, going pretty slowly. Perhaps I have missed some things that come later in the game.

It occurred to me that New World has everything, but just barely.

Survival Game

When you first start, it almost seems like a survival game. You start with nothing in the forest, and have to scrounge to make food, weapons, etc. It feels a little like a survival game, which normally has no classes and is action/skill based. It feels like one, but it isn't. NW is not a survival game. It has just enough to have a whiff of it.

Role Playing Game

Role playing games normally consist of the player making choices about attributes, class skills, etc, and then playing the game with that build. I'll play the role of a healer/DPS/tank/etc this time, or I'll be a animal summoning Druid, etc. And NW does have character attributes, like strength, intelligence, etc. But it has no classes, and the attributes only affect the weapon you are holding. There are no classes, and your character can do everything. You can pick out a role, and play it, barely. NW is not really much of a RPG game.

Harvesting and Crafting

New World does have harvesting and crafting. Again, only in the most simplistic way. You can harvest something by clicking on it. You can craft something by clicking on it. Other games make harvesting and crafting a mini-game, with a chance for failure or even death. Ryzom, for example, requires you to have a skill to prospect for a material, and another skill to actually harvest it. You can die if you don't harvest correctly. Vanguard had complicated crafting with the potential to lose the item, or craft a superior one, based on your skill and ability to play the mini-game. NW has harvesting and crafting, but only the most basic implementation.

Skills Powers and Combat

New World has different powers with skill trees like other MMORPG's. But only 3 powers at a time. The powers are based off of the weapon you use, not a class, and each weapon only has a few choices. Out of these few choices, you get to pick 3. Here again New World has the basics, but just barely.

Summary

New World has all the features of other MMORPG's, but implemented in a basic and simplistic way, with just enough there to qualify. It does have crafting, but it's primitive. It has skill trees, but they are simple and shallow. It does have a bit of RPG elements, but just barely. It has quests, but they are simple and repetitive.

The real question is, is this enough?

Sovrath

olepi said:

The real question is, is this enough?

Given that this is a newly launched game, It's enough for now. We can't forget that these games are always a work in progress.

Only time will tell how Amazon Studios grows the game.

I'm not sure I ever played a game that didn't have "just enough" and in at least once case, didn't launch with what was promised but added it a few months later.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Iselin

olepi said:

Role Playing Game

Role playing games normally consist of the player making choices about attributes, class skills, etc, and then playing the game with that build. I'll play the role of a healer/DPS/tank/etc this time, or I'll be a animal summoning Druid, etc. And NW does have character attributes, like strength, intelligence, etc. But it has no classes, and the attributes only affect the weapon you are holding. There are no classes, and your character can do everything. You can pick out a role, and play it, barely. NW is not really much of a RPG game.

Get back to us when you're in your 40s and have settled into a role.

I'm a healer with my life staff 1 point away from being maxed and my skills and passives carefully selected (I went through trial and error early on and settled on what I like to use... all by myself ) and I feel like a healer here just as much if not more than in any other RPG I've ever played that told me I was a healer because of my class.

Djijin

It sounds like the game actually works. In of itself, that is a pretty big deal these days. People compare this AC I see, and AC launched functional yet exploitable and with thin content and poor balancing. AC's key to success was monthly new content.

I'd say a functional game at launch is worthy of a 6 month review.

Iselin

Torval said:

Iselin said:

olepi said:

Role Playing Game

Role playing games normally consist of the player making choices about attributes, class skills, etc, and then playing the game with that build. I'll play the role of a healer/DPS/tank/etc this time, or I'll be a animal summoning Druid, etc. And NW does have character attributes, like strength, intelligence, etc. But it has no classes, and the attributes only affect the weapon you are holding. There are no classes, and your character can do everything. You can pick out a role, and play it, barely. NW is not really much of a RPG game.

Get back to us when you're in your 40s and have settled into a role.

I'm a healer with my life staff 1 point away from being maxed and my skills and passives carefully selected (I went through trial and error early on and settled on what I like to use... all by myself ) and I feel like a healer here just as much if not more than in any other RPG I've ever played that told me I was a healer because of my class.

What are your healing skills when solo/duo/small group vs when you run dungeons or full group content?

Duo I've been using Sacred Ground, Beacon, and Orb of Protection. For even elite content that is generally enough.

Solo I use Sacred Ground, Beacon, and Light's Embrace (I have left control mapped to a mouse button).

I've tried to use Light's Embrace duo and it's just too hard to hit. Even though Orb is a lesser heal the buff helps and it's more consistent.

For Hatchet I've only put points into Berserk and Raging. I'm going to add either Feral or Rending. Rending sounds like a good way to pull or soften easier targets up.

Typically I do two heavy staff attacks (for the buff) drop sacred and beacon, then switch to hatchet and berserk them down.

I've been curious how you and other life staff players have been rolling. I'm interested in hearing anyone's experience.

I've settled on sacred ground, beacon and lights embrace for everything. The only thing I do different is that I turn off targeted healing for Wars and then Light's Embrace becomes just my self heal as it's tough to use on others when not using the targeting, Not targeted is much better IMO, for long ranged use of sacred ground in a zerg situation when one of my group members doesn't happen to be where I want to place it.

I try to land Beacon on the tank in expeditions and on a melee fighter in Wars - if we actually have a real tank which can be a problem in expedition PUGs. My second choice for a Beacon target on boss fights is the boss - there's something uniquely satisfying about a boss that brings friendly healing along with him lol.

Sacred Ground can be tough to use in groups when you have players jumping around too much. I've really come to appreciate players using the Great Axe Gravity Well in dungeons. Then I just pop sacred ground in there since I know our melee will be there long enough to get good use of it. Otherwise I just put it near myself so at least the ranged will get the heal.

I use Ice gauntlet as my secondary in expeditions and Wars mostly for the CC and ice block protection when needed.

But like you I use the hatchet when soloing or casually grouping doing corruptions, elites, etc. I do the same as you but often don't bother with sacred ground unless I have 6+ mobs on me. I have a staff that gives Beacon an extra 20% heal so that's good enough most of the time when I switch to hatchet Berzerk for 5 or less mobs.

My healing staff and focus stacking also have me at ~ 550 weapon damage for the Life Staff so for singles or a couple of mobs I often just burn them down with lights and heavies (heavies not so much for the extra damage but because the wind up time gives you some wriggle room to retarget something coming at you with erratic movement) without using the skills at all. It's strong enough that I've gotten a few kills in Wars from someone jumping the healer by CCing them with my ice stuff and then just killing them with light and heavy life staff attacks.

Iselin

@Kyleran

I'm taking that as honestly befuddled WTF lol. Did that seem like Greek to you?

olepi

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Iselin said:

olepi said:

Role Playing Game

Role playing games normally consist of the player making choices about attributes, class skills, etc, and then playing the game with that build. I'll play the role of a healer/DPS/tank/etc this time, or I'll be a animal summoning Druid, etc. And NW does have character attributes, like strength, intelligence, etc. But it has no classes, and the attributes only affect the weapon you are holding. There are no classes, and your character can do everything. You can pick out a role, and play it, barely. NW is not really much of a RPG game.

Get back to us when you're in your 40s and have settled into a role.

I'm a healer with my life staff 1 point away from being maxed and my skills and passives carefully selected (I went through trial and error early on and settled on what I like to use... all by myself ) and I feel like a healer here just as much if not more than in any other RPG I've ever played that told me I was a healer because of my class.

I find it also quite disturbing that for some people, RPG means classes and fixed roles. RPG means playing a role in a fictional world. And actually, an open skill system like UO or NW is WAY more RP friendly than any rigid class system.

Go figure... in LOTRO for instance, you can't even be aragorn. There's no class corresponding to it precisely. In NW or UO, you can be whatever you want to be.

I was just thinking over all the games I've played that were called RPG type games. Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, DAOC, CoH, PoTBS, ESO, SWTOR, LoTRO, DDO, etc. They all focus on character building, with skills, attributes, enhancements, etc. You play a role in the world based on the choices you make when building and growing your character.

Ryzom is the only MMORPG that I've played that was totally skill based, and you could eventually get the max in everything.

NW also has the mechanism for attributes, skills, enhancements, etc, and the function of picking them as you grow your character, so it can be called an RPG. But just barely.

Say you want to play a healer in NW. You can, using the life staff. that's it. 3 skills. Many games have lots of different kinds of healers, some with direct healing spells. Some with lifetapping spells. Some, like Monks, heal others when they hit the enemy. And each of these types of healers has many more choices to make than just 3 out of 6. NW just barely qualifies.

Iselin

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I will definitely agree that NW needs more healing weapons with different play styles.

Data mining of the Void Gauntlet that's coming soon has one skill I really want to try: it sends a void orb in a line for a set distance and it does AOE damage on the way out. On the way back to me though it does AOE healing to all friendlies.

That's my real every day second weapon in waiting

olepi

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

olepi said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Iselin said:

olepi said:

Role Playing Game

Role playing games normally consist of the player making choices about attributes, class skills, etc, and then playing the game with that build. I'll play the role of a healer/DPS/tank/etc this time, or I'll be a animal summoning Druid, etc. And NW does have character attributes, like strength, intelligence, etc. But it has no classes, and the attributes only affect the weapon you are holding. There are no classes, and your character can do everything. You can pick out a role, and play it, barely. NW is not really much of a RPG game.

Get back to us when you're in your 40s and have settled into a role.

I'm a healer with my life staff 1 point away from being maxed and my skills and passives carefully selected (I went through trial and error early on and settled on what I like to use... all by myself ) and I feel like a healer here just as much if not more than in any other RPG I've ever played that told me I was a healer because of my class.

I find it also quite disturbing that for some people, RPG means classes and fixed roles. RPG means playing a role in a fictional world. And actually, an open skill system like UO or NW is WAY more RP friendly than any rigid class system.

Go figure... in LOTRO for instance, you can't even be aragorn. There's no class corresponding to it precisely. In NW or UO, you can be whatever you want to be.

I was just thinking over all the games I've played that were called RPG type games. Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, DAOC, CoH, PoTBS, ESO, SWTOR, LoTRO, DDO, etc. They all focus on character building, with skills, attributes, enhancements, etc. You play a role in the world based on the choices you make when building and growing your character.

Ryzom is the only MMORPG that I've played that was totally skill based, and you could eventually get the max in everything.

NW also has the mechanism for attributes, skills, enhancements, etc, and the function of picking them as you grow your character, so it can be called an RPG. But just barely.

Say you want to play a healer in NW. You can, using the life staff. that's it. 3 skills. Many games have lots of different kinds of healers, some with direct healing spells. Some with lifetapping spells. Some, like Monks, heal others when they hit the enemy. And each of these types of healers has many more choices to make than just 3 out of 6. NW just barely qualifies.

WoW at release had only one major healer, the priest. Druids were quite bad, paladins just ok.
I will definitely agree that NW needs more healing weapons with different play styles.

But I don't think we talk about the same meaning of "role". To me, Role in RP has always been a role like an actor in a movie. That's what table top RPGs have always been all about too.

Oh, sorry, I wasn't talking about actual role-playing. We did some of that in PoTBS. A fleet, with officers, full RP comments, etc. That was fun. In all of the games I listed, I decide first on what kind of role I want to play in the game. And then build to that.

So maybe a dark elf necromancer that  heals by lifetapping the enemy. Build to that, picking the skills, attributes, race, etc, to play that type of character. Lots of times, I'll pick a sub-standard build just because of the look and feel. I want my character to act like *this*.

My take is that NW has the potential to grow into a huge tree, but it is a seedling now. It has all the right features, but they are primitive, like in early development.

I can see them adding new healing type weapons. Or perhaps a healing Gem. Put it in your axe and you get a small heal when you hit with it. Maybe this super-Gem comes from an enemy keep. Or a whole new EPIC level of skills and weapons that you unlock after you finish something.

Kyleran

Iselin said:

@Kyleran

I'm taking that as honestly befuddled WTF lol. Did that seem like Greek to you?

Accidentally hit it while one handed scrolling on the smart phone.

TheRedDread

Is it enough? No, but I also don't want New World to turn into WoW. The devs need to focus on their core gameplay and expand on it; whether it's PvP or PvE. The game doesn't need to have everything to be great.

Mendel

I find what is more disappointing is that NW seems to be the best that can be done, given a nearly unlimited budget from AGS.  They've thrown staff and talent at this game, and it appears from the outside to be almost a minimal effort.

laserit

NW is newly released and without a doubt needs more.

But I also don’t subscribe to the more skills and spells the better theory.

Sovrath

Mendel said:

I find what is more disappointing is that NW seems to be the best that can be done, given a nearly unlimited budget from AGS.  They've thrown staff and talent at this game, and it appears from the outside to be almost a minimal effort.

I think it points to unrealistic expectations from players.

Yeah, they had talent and money and this is what they made.

Blizzard had YEARS trying to develop a new mmorpg, with talent and money, and they canceled it because they just couldn't make something that was acceptable.

And then small indy studios try and of course some players give the "they had more than enough time" spiel (not just a recent quote from a recent poster) or "If only they had money." Or "they just don't have the talent."

It's difficult to make great things. If it was easy then one formula, or set of formulas, could be followed and "bam" we'd have what we want.

Creating great "anything" is hard. Now throw in technical issues, different visions, lack of funding in some cases, and just the idea that you can make something and when finished (or close to) you realize you just missed.

The best we can all do is to just take things for what they are and hope in the years to come that the games become better or at least can be entertaining. And if you can't then that's fine, walk away but know that nothing is certain when dealing with creative products.

eoloe

Sovrath said:

I'm not sure I ever played a game that didn't have "just enough"

Well, GW1 was enough for me until its first expansion.

Mendel

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

I find what is more disappointing is that NW seems to be the best that can be done, given a nearly unlimited budget from AGS.  They've thrown staff and talent at this game, and it appears from the outside to be almost a minimal effort.

I think it points to unrealistic expectations from players.

Yeah, they had talent and money and this is what they made.

Blizzard had YEARS trying to develop a new mmorpg, with talent and money, and they canceled it because they just couldn't make something that was acceptable.

And then small indy studios try and of course some players give the "they had more than enough time" spiel (not just a recent quote from a recent poster) or "If only they had money." Or "they just don't have the talent."

It's difficult to make great things. If it was easy then one formula, or set of formulas, could be followed and "bam" we'd have what we want.

Creating great "anything" is hard. Now throw in technical issues, different visions, lack of funding in some cases, and just the idea that you can make something and when finished (or close to) you realize you just missed.

The best we can all do is to just take things for what they are and hope in the years to come that the games become better or at least can be entertaining. And if you can't then that's fine, walk away but know that nothing is certain when dealing with creative products.

Definitely.  Creativity is most definitely difficult.  The underlying point is that both players and developers are more than willing to accept minimal creative effort.  Neither party is really pushing the level of acceptability.  That 'it is new' seems to be good enough.

The standards for games has slipped.  Players accept substandard games out of desperation and the desire for something new.  The developers value the games more for the profit, rather than for their ability to innovate or entertain.  Developers seem to refuse to 'stand on the shoulders of giants', preferring to do it all themselves, while the players are focused on the 'titans of yesteryear'.  Together, we've dug a deep hole that no one can see a way out of.

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

laserit

I remember in earlier beta's or alpha's a while back and people were complaining about no jumping. Well I have to say NW's jumping is about the best I've experienced in an MMORPG, No Bunny Hopping, I love it.

Don't get me wrong, there is a place in bunny hopping in MMORPG's I'm just glad its not here

Sovrath

Mendel said:

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

I find what is more disappointing is that NW seems to be the best that can be done, given a nearly unlimited budget from AGS.  They've thrown staff and talent at this game, and it appears from the outside to be almost a minimal effort.

I think it points to unrealistic expectations from players.

Yeah, they had talent and money and this is what they made.

Blizzard had YEARS trying to develop a new mmorpg, with talent and money, and they canceled it because they just couldn't make something that was acceptable.

And then small indy studios try and of course some players give the "they had more than enough time" spiel (not just a recent quote from a recent poster) or "If only they had money." Or "they just don't have the talent."

It's difficult to make great things. If it was easy then one formula, or set of formulas, could be followed and "bam" we'd have what we want.

Creating great "anything" is hard. Now throw in technical issues, different visions, lack of funding in some cases, and just the idea that you can make something and when finished (or close to) you realize you just missed.

The best we can all do is to just take things for what they are and hope in the years to come that the games become better or at least can be entertaining. And if you can't then that's fine, walk away but know that nothing is certain when dealing with creative products.

Definitely.  Creativity is most definitely difficult.  The underlying point is that both players and developers are more than willing to accept minimal creative effort.  Neither party is really pushing the level of acceptability.  That 'it is new' seems to be good enough.

The standards for games has slipped.  Players accept substandard games out of desperation and the desire for something new.  The developers value the games more for the profit, rather than for their ability to innovate or entertain.  Developers seem to refuse to 'stand on the shoulders of giants', preferring to do it all themselves, while the players are focused on the 'titans of yesteryear'.  Together, we've dug a deep hole that no one can see a way out of.

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

How do you know it's minimal creative effort? It very well could be an immense amount of creative effort and after twists and turns and reevaluation, or shifting gears they were able to create what then could be a starting point.

I'm sure there were many iterations and much discussion. Especially as we know they decided to switch direction.

"maximum creative effort" is not a final product that matches what we have in our heads.

We weren't there, we don't know what they had to sacrifice in order to create this final product. Well, we know some given previous beta tests.

I don't think the standards of games have slipped. I think some players have become so accustomed to what has gone before that they NEED something new, NEED something different or else, to be dramatic, they just can't "feel it" again.

If this game were to be released at the time of Everquest it would be like the 2nd coming.

Some players have just become too jaded.

Kyleran

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Mendel said:

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

Yet NW does capture mine. More than ESO, more than any latest WoW expansion.

Well, in all fairness due to a deficit of actual content when compared to ESO a player has to use quite a bit more of their imagination to fill in the blanks parts.

Kyleran

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Kyleran said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Mendel said:

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

Yet NW does capture mine. More than ESO, more than any latest WoW expansion.

Well, in all fairness due to a deficit of actual content when compared to ESO a player has to use quite a bit more of their imagination to fill in the blanks parts.

Maybe you should actually play the game before you say it lacks content. Dang, out of all the people out here, you played EVE. You should know better !

Just messing with you Jean-Luc, you are correct, had a lot of fun role playing as a space adventurer in EVE, though I never saw Hans Solo or Captain Picard pouring over their spreadsheets in the show or movies.

One day I'll give NW ago, just giving it a good amount of time to stabilize some in terms of change.

Also, kinda wondering what there is to do at max level, those 50 on 50 fights are only of limited interest really.

Scorchien

Kyleran said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Mendel said:

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

Yet NW does capture mine. More than ESO, more than any latest WoW expansion.

Well, in all fairness due to a deficit of actual content when compared to ESO a player has to use quite a bit more of their imagination to fill in the blanks parts.

I think for this exercise New World be best described as Fly Paper

laserit

Kyleran said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Kyleran said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Mendel said:

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

Yet NW does capture mine. More than ESO, more than any latest WoW expansion.

Well, in all fairness due to a deficit of actual content when compared to ESO a player has to use quite a bit more of their imagination to fill in the blanks parts.

Maybe you should actually play the game before you say it lacks content. Dang, out of all the people out here, you played EVE. You should know better !

Just messing with you Jean-Luc, you are correct, had a lot of fun role playing as a space adventurer in EVE, though I never saw Hans Solo or Captain Picard pouring over their spreadsheets in the show or movies.

One day I'll give NW ago, just giving it a good amount of time to stabilize some in terms of change.

Also, kinda wondering what there is to do at max level, those 50 on 50 fights are only of limited interest really.

Games are always the best before everyone knows everything

If your worried about a bumpy experience, I don't believe there is much to worry about. 

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Tokken

To me, the Harvesting and Crafting is the BEST part of the game. The rest of the content is FUN, I look forward to expansions.

Brainy

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Mendel said:

Games aren't designed to capture our imaginations anymore.  Therefore, they don't.

Yet NW does capture mine. More than ESO, more than any latest WoW expansion.

LOL you are saying this game is capturing your imagination?  How many sets of beer goggles you have on right now.  Anymore you may just fall over.

The only things halfway decent in this game are Gathering and Crafting.  You say you like killing mobs, I am 50 and have yet to see a single mechanic in this game that cant be completely ignored.  Granted I am not 60 yet, so there is still the possibility, but even if the 60 dungeons actually have some combat that a 6 year old cant beat, I wouldn't say that's capturing the imagination of this generation.

Its like a person stranded at sea for a year, they can come back and eat the worst fast food and think its a 5 star restaurant.

So yeah I would say the standards have definitely nosedived.  Nothing amazing that's for sure.