New World open up my eyes, in a non conventional way!

Pelagato

Hey guys, after playing New World for over 200 hours, I realize one thing... I hate lvling!!! Game Developers should forego the whole lvling process and introduce the actual meat of the game right away.

What purpose does lvling serves anyway. You dont learn much, as the world boss mechanics are an endgame thing, nor you make enough gold or have actual fun. Seriously! What is the point of lvling at this stage in the genre. I could understand in the subscription based games because wasting our time means we pay more for the game... But now? 

Oh wait, I get it, throw some XP Potions in the cash shop, mess the game up and sell the fix. Great idea devs... 

Tiller

So what just a game where everyone is maxed out and you have nothing to work towards? One of the few MMOs I remember that hid levels was SWG, but they were still there. You just made your character stronger by grinding skills; but again you had to grind XP. If there was no character improvement at all what would be the point of playing?

mcrippins

UO did this back in 1997. No levels. Just work on the skills you want to max out. It's still a vertical progression, but you can do most things right away. I wish that would have been the route most MMOs took, but instead they went the way of EQ

Kyleran

mcrippins said:

UO did this back in 1997. No levels. Just work on the skills you want to max out. It's still a vertical progression, but you can do most things right away. I wish that would have been the route most MMOs took, but instead they went the way of EQ

Because the latter way proved more popular, for "reasons."

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Dattelis

I'm kind of on the mind set of levels should be about gradually unlocking your core activities rather than just being the general gate from expansion to expansion. If expansions leaned more into expanding on existing systems in the game or even adding to them instead of just a funnel, leveling might feel a bit more meaningful to some.

Bloodaxes

blueturtle13 said:

Everyone always forgets about Runescape. 20 years and counting 

Would love an mmo with runescape and/or oblivion style (same thing pretty much) of leveling.

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Bloodaxes

To continue with that tangent, while I understand its a nightmare to balance, I really wish elemental resistances were added again in mmos.

Recently, I noticed Final Fantasy XIV removed them because certain classes (mainly Black Mage) would have a very situational rotation if an enemy is immune to fire (for example). However, me casting fire spells to a fire elemental makes absolutely no sense. Similarly, being able to hit ghosts with weapons (that are not enchanted) makes no sense. That is something I liked in oblivion.

Morgenes83

Pelagato said:

Hey guys, after playing New World for over 200 hours, I realize one thing... I hate lvling!!! Game Developers should forego the whole lvling process and introduce the actual meat of the game right away.

What purpose does lvling serves anyway. You dont learn much, as the world boss mechanics are an endgame thing, nor you make enough gold or have actual fun. Seriously! What is the point of lvling at this stage in the genre. I could understand in the subscription based games because wasting our time means we pay more for the game... But now? 

Oh wait, I get it, throw some XP Potions in the cash shop, mess the game up and sell the fix. Great idea devs... 

Some people love leveling.
Still I believe this people would also be ok with small steps like e.g. ESOs Champion system after a short leveling phase.

I still think GW1 did it best and would be close to perfect for me with ESOs Champion system

Quizzical

The problem is that in most MMORPGs, once you reach the level cap, it's basically game over.  Maybe there's a little bit of content in the endgame, but it's super grindy, and you have to do each thing way too many times before you can move on to the next.

Scot

Are they selling XP potions in NW? I rather doubt it but that's an implication from what Pelagato said.

SKurj

there are lots of games out there that do not require levelling...

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Kyleran

SKurj said:

there are lots of games out there that do not require levelling...

Risk, checkers, tennis, Pong....

olepi

I still like how Ryzom does it. Your character isn't a "level". You have skills, and each skill levels up independently. So you can be a lvl 50 in healing, 100 in melee, 150 in magic, and 200 in range for example.

And you can participate at any of those levels. If you fight lvl 50's, and use only your lvl 50 healing skill, you will get full XP. Obviously, if you used a lvl 150 skill on a lvl 50, you'd get no XP.

This means your character is all different levels, depending on the skill, and can fight or heal at any level appropriate to that skill.

The same is true for prospecting, digging, and crafting. All different levels for different types of actions and mats. I finally got one level maxed at 250: forest digging.

OldKingLog

Pelagato said:

Hey guys, after playing New World for over 200 hours, I realize one thing... I hate lvling!!! Game Developers should forego the whole lvling process and introduce the actual meat of the game right away.

What purpose does lvling serves anyway. You dont learn much, as the world boss mechanics are an endgame thing, nor you make enough gold or have actual fun. Seriously! What is the point of lvling at this stage in the genre. I could understand in the subscription based games because wasting our time means we pay more for the game... But now? 

Oh wait, I get it, throw some XP Potions in the cash shop, mess the game up and sell the fix. Great idea devs... 

Well let's take a look at NW. Without progression there's no need for crafting, gathering, dungeon running, or PVP for territory control, as you won't need to worry about taxes, leveled crafting stations, storage or housing. You'll just be a bunch of fully leveled, fully geared players killing each other just for the luls. I'd give that game a life expectancy of about a week.

Clywd

Kyleran said:

mcrippins said:

UO did this back in 1997. No levels. Just work on the skills you want to max out. It's still a vertical progression, but you can do most things right away. I wish that would have been the route most MMOs took, but instead they went the way of EQ

Because the latter way proved more popular, for "reasons."

Actually EQ did both, they have levels and skills (aka AA), you need to progress both. In the last 15 years it was more like 4 days level, and then 40 days AA.

Maybe you meant "they went the way of WoW"?

Akulas

Older leveling felt more rewarding. Grind level 1 mobs until you hit level 2. GRind level 2 mobs until you hit level 3 etc etc. Might get a drop and the drop actually mattered. Newer leveling is boring. NWs leveling is doing the same 3 quests over and over + town boards. That's ok for 20 minutes or so but when you're higher level and doing the same thing it's understandable to think it's boring.

OldKingLog

Akulas said:

Older leveling felt more rewarding. Grind level 1 mobs until you hit level 2. GRind level 2 mobs until you hit level 3 etc etc. Might get a drop and the drop actually mattered. Newer leveling is boring. NWs leveling is doing the same 3 quests over and over + town boards. That's ok for 20 minutes or so but when you're higher level and doing the same thing it's understandable to think it's boring.

New Worlds hastily cobbled together quest system is just grinding with a deceptive coat of paint. The only worse progression design for me would be level scaling. Sure its great freedom to journey to any game zone to level, but where ever you go the mobs are always your level. The experience is always a pointless slog where you character never seems a bit more powerful, competent, and most importantly, heroic.