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Do MMORPG Launch Queues Bother You? | MMORPG.com

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Ungood said:
    Do you build a church for Easter or for the other 364 days of the year?

    As someone that works in Commercial Construction, I can say with around a 95% certainty that Churches are Built for the Major Holidays and Events, (IE: Easter, Christmas, Weddings, Funerals, etc) to be able to handle the load for those times, and then hover at a lot lighter load all other times.

    Much like how most commercial establishments, like a Restaurant for example, is made for the Weekend Rush, not for the Tuesday late night crowd.
    As someone that hires companies to build large commercial facilities, I can assure you that is not the case, or at least not what is done by smart folks unless you are in a super high growth, customer acquisition, mode and can be sure to fill up the facility shortly after.

    This is, for example, why my items that I ordered on Black Friday have not arrived yet, or in some cases, haven’t even shipped yet.

    This is also why at every church I have attended, the pews are overflowing at Easter, folks are standing around the walls , and out the vestibule. Demand is met not by making the church bigger but by adding Masses. 

    My actual job title is Director of Network Design for literally, the largest Supply Chain and Logistics company in the world.  My role is specifically to determine how many facilities we should have, where they should be, how large they should be and how we connect them. 

    Sure, there are exceptions like I listed in the first paragraph, but building based on the need of 1 day out of a year is… generally not a smart idea.  Amazon servers are certainly more easily scalable than a physical building, but as long as there are discrete “shards” it almost doesn’t matter because expanding and contracting either rips those “shards” apart or crushed them together. 
    Kyleran

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    edited December 2021
    Tiller said:
    Launch queues not always, I can wait through it. Not being able to play at all for days due to not being able to connect to data center at all, or getting booted out of queue after 45min of wating, that pisses me off. I do however with with today's tech feel there shouldn't be queues for games all. I mean hell even Disneyland solved that problem ages ago with the fast pass for some of their rides.
    As someone recently returned from both DisneyWorld and Universal Orlando, I can assure you that the queues are quite long in both. Quite particularly on opening day/year of a ride.  The latest concept are “virtual queues” where you login at x time of day and furiously click to get a ride slot.  This would be similar to randomly sending logins to 20% of players in a game and if you didn’t get the invite, well.. try again tomorrow.  Then of course even with your virtual ticket in hand you can wait an hour in the actual queue for the ride…

    Trust me, Disney hasn’t figured out the peak queue issue yet either. Sure, after a ride is open for 5 years it works… but opening day?  Not even close.










    Here is one from Universal when the new Hagrid's ride opened:



    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    Kyleran

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  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,460
    It's less and less forgivable with the technologies of dynamic server scaling we have today.
    UngoodKyleran
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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    edited December 2021
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:
    Do you build a church for Easter or for the other 364 days of the year?

    As someone that works in Commercial Construction, I can say with around a 95% certainty that Churches are Built for the Major Holidays and Events, (IE: Easter, Christmas, Weddings, Funerals, etc) to be able to handle the load for those times, and then hover at a lot lighter load all other times.

    Much like how most commercial establishments, like a Restaurant for example, is made for the Weekend Rush, not for the Tuesday late night crowd.
    Churches generally build or buy a new building when their old one isn't large enough because the church has been growing.  In such circumstances, they anticipate continued future growth, and so they build for a significantly larger congregation than they have at the time.

    Easter or other special events have little or nothing to do with it.  Because church buildings lay effectively vacant most of the week, churches can readily scale up capacity for short-term events by going to multiple Sunday morning services.  It's when they're forced to run more services than they want to every single week that they start thinking about getting a larger building.

    Conversely, a lot of churches have a building that is nowhere near full because their congregation has shrunk quite a bit from what it used to be.  If their building is paid for, they're probably not going to move to a smaller building just because they can't fill their current one anymore until the situation gets pretty extreme.
    Not exactly true.

    Outside things like Mega Churches, which, NGL, are their own category of both church and building, that, for some crazy reason can in fact fill, going near to 100% capacity on a normal week end, and in fact need to run more than one service because they do not have space, this is often not so much the case with most churches in the world US today, especially not a small town or even suburban local church.

    A lot of Churches will offer several services during the week end, not because they have too many people, but because not everyone wants to get up at the buttcrack of dawn to go to church. Some people want a morning sermon, some want an afternoon, some want an evening.

    In almost all cases, you will not see them at more than 50% capacity, often realistically hovering at around 20 to 30%.

    Churches will often expand, but more often than not, they expand on other amenities, like daycare for example, or Sunday School for the younger children, or Arts and Crafts, or building a gym, etc, often to offer community building things to do, because their parishioners want this, and very seldom do these renovations directly involve enlarging the main sermon hall.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    Ungood said:

    Churches will often expand, but more often than not, they expand on other amenities, like daycare for example, or Sunday School for the younger children, or Arts and Crafts, or building a gym, etc, often to offer community building things to do, because their parishioners want this, and very seldom do these renovations directly involve enlarging the main sermon hall.
    That's not expanding for the sake of peak Easter attendance.
    Slapshot1188UngoodKyleran
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Ungood said:
    Do you build a church for Easter or for the other 364 days of the year?

    As someone that works in Commercial Construction, I can say with around a 95% certainty that Churches are Built for the Major Holidays and Events, (IE: Easter, Christmas, Weddings, Funerals, etc) to be able to handle the load for those times, and then hover at a lot lighter load all other times.

    Much like how most commercial establishments, like a Restaurant for example, is made for the Weekend Rush, not for the Tuesday late night crowd.
    As someone that hires companies to build large commercial facilities, I can assure you that is not the case, or at least not what is done by smart folks unless you are in a super high growth, customer acquisition, mode and can be sure to fill up the facility shortly after.

    This is, for example, why my items that I ordered on Black Friday have not arrived yet, or in some cases, haven’t even shipped yet.

    This is also why at every church I have attended, the pews are overflowing at Easter, folks are standing around the walls , and out the vestibule. Demand is met not by making the church bigger but by adding Masses. 

    My actual job title is Director of Network Design for literally, the largest Supply Chain and Logistics company in the world.  My role is specifically to determine how many facilities we should have, where they should be, how large they should be and how we connect them. 

    Sure, there are exceptions like I listed in the first paragraph, but building based on the need of 1 day out of a year is… generally not a smart idea.  Amazon servers are certainly more easily scalable than a physical building, but as long as there are discrete “shards” it almost doesn’t matter because expanding and contracting either rips those “shards” apart or crushed them together. 
    I have never, in my life, had to wait in line to go to church.

    And given your job title, I doubt you hire anyone to build anything, and instead focus on renting space to meet need.

    Which is a solid point in our discussion. Renting Space.

    This is just basic stuff, that pretty much anyone that works in shipping and distribution already know what I am about to say.

    Your company (Like many others) no doubt ramps up systems during the Holiday Rush, hiring staff, contractors, renting buildings, ensure you have additional storehouses and distribution centers set up, so that when someone who orders something for Christmas, will get it, before Christmas.

    This involves often times hiring temp staff, normally.. a LOT of temp staff, No doubt renting facilities to have the products localized for fast easy shipping, these facilities often sit empty the rest of the year, waiting for your company to rent them out again, and often paying a premium price to do so, but they are there for you none the less.

    That is because this upcoming Holiday, is a huge sales holiday, and not the time to screw things up with people getting their stuff a week late.

    And lets be real, We all know, your current system, in it's current state, cannot handle the upcoming expected load, so you boost things up. That means there are Wearhouse's, Legions of People, and even entire companies, that sit, and wait, just for this very time to make their money, they have literally, built their business around 1 fucking day.

    And your Company.. they plan and do a LOT of shit to expand, get ready for that 1 Fucking Day as well, but because being as large as it is, expansion as well as reduction is a very flexible thing, mainly thanks to being able to rent as opposed to needing to build and own, unlike a Church, which is stuck with what they have, as they have it.

    So.. given your profession, would you be a total fuck up, if you did not plan accordingly for that 1 day holiday, knowing damn well ahead of time and thought, what you had was not going to handle the load?

    Now how much of a fuck up would you be, if everyone bough their shit 3 months ahead, and you still managed to screw up the deliveries, and they didn't arrive in time?

    Now, I'm not an IT person, so, I dunno.. Maybe MMO's are like Churches and they are fixed with what they have, but I am going to wager they are not, that they are more like your business that be very fluid on the larger scale, with renting and hiring temp, to bolster ability to handle known upcoming loads.

    I could be wrong on that, but I am pretty sure the technology is in fact a bit more fluid then a Church, so, I am sure they, like you and your company, could have prepped and done something to handle upcoming rush situation better than "This is what we always had, we are not going to upgrade anything for you losers, fuck you and the money you spent, deal with it"

    I am sure you are far better at your job then to just sit around with your thumb up your ass, saying "Nope, we are not changing anything for 1 fucking day, I don't care if this will accommodate 30% or more of all annul income for most retailers nationwide, fuck it, what we have is what we have"

    The fact that you still have the job, tells me you have got to be better than that.. 
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Quizzical said:
    Ungood said:

    Churches will often expand, but more often than not, they expand on other amenities, like daycare for example, or Sunday School for the younger children, or Arts and Crafts, or building a gym, etc, often to offer community building things to do, because their parishioners want this, and very seldom do these renovations directly involve enlarging the main sermon hall.
    That's not expanding for the sake of peak Easter attendance.
    That's right, because chances are, they don't have to. Because they don't get overloaded at Easter.

    Same with a lot of small fixed size business, they need to be sized for their ideally best times, not their slowest.

    Like when you go to a florets, they are sized to handle most major holidays, weddings, and funerals. They are not sized for, Generic Tuesday when one lone shit shows up and thinks buying flowers will fix the fact that he fucked her sister.

    But, a Church is not like a MMO, as I believe the Load on Server can in fact be adjusted a lot easier than trying to double the size of a sermon hall and half it again the Rest of the year.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    Ungood said:

    Now, I'm not an IT person, so, I dunno.. Maybe MMO's are like Churches and they are fixed with what they have, but I am going to wager they are not, that they are more like your business that be very fluid on the larger scale, with renting and hiring temp, to bolster ability to handle known upcoming loads.

    I could be wrong on that, but I am pretty sure the technology is in fact a bit more fluid then a Church, so, I am sure they, like you and your company, could have prepped and done something to handle upcoming rush situation better than "This is what we always had, we are not going to upgrade anything for you losers, fuck you and the money you spent, deal with it"

    I'm not in IT, but I do use a lot of very large computers. For example, 1TB of memory, dozens of processors, huge amounts of disk. And the job runs for days.

    If I suddenly demand 100 more of these machines, they simply aren't there. We cannot afford to have 100 of those sitting around idle.

    And of course we try to estimate what we will need, and of course IT will scramble to find some, but you cannot simply go down to Best Buy and get one. So I will have to wait.

    With game launches though, the simple thing is to just not try to rush into the game on launch day. Wait for a week or a month. Let it settle down first. Unlike my profession, where time is money, it costs nothing to wait for a game.

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Do you build a church for Easter or for the other 364 days of the year?

    As someone that works in Commercial Construction, I can say with around a 95% certainty that Churches are Built for the Major Holidays and Events, (IE: Easter, Christmas, Weddings, Funerals, etc) to be able to handle the load for those times, and then hover at a lot lighter load all other times.

    Much like how most commercial establishments, like a Restaurant for example, is made for the Weekend Rush, not for the Tuesday late night crowd.
    As someone that hires companies to build large commercial facilities, I can assure you that is not the case, or at least not what is done by smart folks unless you are in a super high growth, customer acquisition, mode and can be sure to fill up the facility shortly after.

    This is, for example, why my items that I ordered on Black Friday have not arrived yet, or in some cases, haven’t even shipped yet.

    This is also why at every church I have attended, the pews are overflowing at Easter, folks are standing around the walls , and out the vestibule. Demand is met not by making the church bigger but by adding Masses. 

    My actual job title is Director of Network Design for literally, the largest Supply Chain and Logistics company in the world.  My role is specifically to determine how many facilities we should have, where they should be, how large they should be and how we connect them. 

    Sure, there are exceptions like I listed in the first paragraph, but building based on the need of 1 day out of a year is… generally not a smart idea.  Amazon servers are certainly more easily scalable than a physical building, but as long as there are discrete “shards” it almost doesn’t matter because expanding and contracting either rips those “shards” apart or crushed them together. 
    I
    And given your job title, I doubt you hire anyone to build anything, and instead focus on renting space to meet need.
     
    Wow... such ignorance. Literally building 3 greenspace 300,000- 500000 sqft distribution centers as we speak.  As in, we bought land that consists of dirt and are developing the land. Yes, we do also lease space, but that is becoming more and more rare.  If you actually knew something about which you speak, you would know what has happened to premium commercial warehouse space in the last 2 years and why it is often far preferable from a financial standpoint to purchase vs lease as long as you plan to be in business 10 years from now.  As long as you actually have cash that is.   These 3 projects are ~230M EUR investments in the facilities and the automation.  When you are going to install 50 million dollars of automation  you want to secure the place for a long time. and in almost every case that points to buying vs leasing.  When you top it off by looking at the sustainability (environmental) differences between an old site and a new one, it becomes the easiest business case you can imagine

    As for the rest of your... umm... post... it displays such a level of ignorance that I cannot even envision a way to engage in a rational conversation about what you spewed out.  So.. good luck with your day job I guess.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    I'm just going to say I've been to Lakewood Church's service in Houston, and unless you arrive early, expect to wait in some lines.  )

    But most churches don't house 18K at max capacity either. 

    My church has some traffic and parking issues, mostly due to the crappy two lane road up front and limited number of entrances / exits.

    But as mentioned, it should be easier for game devs to stand up more hardware and what not but even with an abundance of cloud capacity Amazon couldn't really improve on the typical launch day experience, so there's more to it than simply adding more hardware.






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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Any queue bothers me or anyone who has anything better to do but articles you can't comment on also bother me. Why report about Activision if you won't allow comments?

    Move on from them so we can too.
    Quizzical
  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member RarePosts: 485
    No, because I am an adult and have learned that shit happens.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    olepi said:
    Ungood said:

    Now, I'm not an IT person, so, I dunno.. Maybe MMO's are like Churches and they are fixed with what they have, but I am going to wager they are not, that they are more like your business that be very fluid on the larger scale, with renting and hiring temp, to bolster ability to handle known upcoming loads.

    I could be wrong on that, but I am pretty sure the technology is in fact a bit more fluid then a Church, so, I am sure they, like you and your company, could have prepped and done something to handle upcoming rush situation better than "This is what we always had, we are not going to upgrade anything for you losers, fuck you and the money you spent, deal with it"

    I'm not in IT, but I do use a lot of very large computers. For example, 1TB of memory, dozens of processors, huge amounts of disk. And the job runs for days.

    If I suddenly demand 100 more of these machines, they simply aren't there. We cannot afford to have 100 of those sitting around idle.

    And of course we try to estimate what we will need, and of course IT will scramble to find some, but you cannot simply go down to Best Buy and get one. So I will have to wait.

    With game launches though, the simple thing is to just not try to rush into the game on launch day. Wait for a week or a month. Let it settle down first. Unlike my profession, where time is money, it costs nothing to wait for a game.

    Full server racks can cost well over 1.2 mil. I worked for a large company that built and shipped them all over the world, not to mention software licensing. It's not as cheap as it may seem. I also heard the supply chain shortage and chip shortage is effecting SE; or so some people have been saying.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited December 2021
    Lumeria said:
    Any queue bothers me or anyone who has anything better to do but articles you can't comment on also bother me. Why report about Activision if you won't allow comments?

    Move on from them so we can too.

    Why do you need to comment on it? Are you that itching to bait everyone into a pointless circular argument? It's easy to move on, just don't read it.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    edited December 2021
    Tiller said:
    Lumeria said:
    Any queue bothers me or anyone who has anything better to do but articles you can't comment on also bother me. Why report about Activision if you won't allow comments?

    Move on from them so we can too.

    Why do you need to comment on it? Are you that itching to bait everyone into a pointless circular argument? It's easy to move on, just don't read it.
     Nope just EVERY article is blocked that's about them. Are you ok? Seems like you are itching to gatekeep things that may be none of your business since it's to the editor not you.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    Lumeria said:
    Tiller said:
    Lumeria said:
    Any queue bothers me or anyone who has anything better to do but articles you can't comment on also bother me. Why report about Activision if you won't allow comments?

    Move on from them so we can too.

    Why do you need to comment on it? Are you that itching to bait everyone into a pointless circular argument? It's easy to move on, just don't read it.
     Nope just EVERY article is blocked that's about them. Are you ok? Seems like you are itching to gatekeep things that may be none of your business since it's to the editor not you.


    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    I found you equally amusing though Ryan Gosling deserves better. Have a great day boomer.
  • VidahrVidahr Member UncommonPosts: 123
    edited December 2021
    The FFXIV launch has been a disaster. Yoshi said they would shore up servers to ensure nothing would happen. They've broken a few times and once the queue reaches 14k you can't even log in, it just boots you out of the game.

    I don't mind queue times, but if I can't even get IN the queue that's a problem. Also once you get in people can disconnect and it has been happening a lot in Limsa and other clustered areas. There's no DC timer so you just get put right back in queue.

    Also since FFXIV had a mass exodus of WoW players the game is so toxic. WoW players brought their crappy attitudes here and have made the game miserable.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Lumeria said:
    I found you equally amusing though Ryan Gosling deserves better. Have a great day boomer.
    Why the ageist attack? 

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ACommonMuggerACommonMugger Member RarePosts: 558

    Kyleran said:

    The number of players willing to bend over and "take it" is..well, a bit sad really.



    Demand better for your money, or keep taking it in the a....

    Here's an idea I've actually supported, selling queue priority for extra cost, heck they do it all the time at amusement parks, airlines and passenger ship boardings, even at the local movie theater.

    Let's the have nots wait their turn.







    Nah, what's pathetic and sad is people who think they deserve more compared to others, especially for a cost. That sets a bar that all popular MMOs should do this. Thank god you're not in charge of anything as this thought process is not only toxic, it's idiotic.

    What's doubly surprising is it's coming from a person who posts constantly on an MMORPG community forum. Do you just complain about them and never play them?

    If you want to play a popular MMORPG around an expansion time, expect problems. Since day 1, it's always been like this for any popular MMO. The FF14 developers realize there's issues and attempt to address them accordingly - I would say they have been the most responsive devs in an MMO yet when it comes to these types of issues. We already got 7 free days, I wouldn't doubt if the problems continue, they will give more.


    It's sad when people that have this thought process actually get support. Truly. It shines a bright light on the toxicity of the average player, which players like yourself fall squarely into.

    Do the FF14 community a favor - if you post in the FF14 subreddit, keep your terrible opinions to yourself. It's already a cesspool.




  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    Lumeria said:
    I found you equally amusing though Ryan Gosling deserves better. Have a great day boomer.
    Why the ageist attack? 

    They have proven my point either way. It's exactly the reason why no one is allowed to comment on the topic in question lol.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • ThaKrulllThaKrulll Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    I have really only played Guild Wars 2 and there the concept of queue times are nonexistent. I have never been unable to play the game. Not even during mayor releases like the expansions or during patches/updates.

    Their server infrastructure really is fantastic. No homeworlds/servers for PvE. Scalable shards. If it needs more instances it just creates them. And it supports multiple build numbers at the same time. So people that have not patched their game just gets an instance for the older version of the game. So you can keep playing a storymission or an event for a couple more hours before you are forced to update. Plenty of time to finish up what you are doing.

    After the whole New World queue fiasco I see now that I have been taking Guild Wars 2's servers for granted. 99.9% Server uptime in over 9 years time really is commendable. I guess you don't really think about it so much when it just works.
  • CosmicwrathCosmicwrath Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Yes
    Slapshot1188
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    Last MMO I played at launch was WoW...That is how long it has been since I have done that.......Now I am in no hurry to play MMOs on release....I learned I can wait.
    olepi
  • KratierKratier Member RarePosts: 626
    just people trying to consume new hyped content like they did with new world. remember the queues for new world too?

    Its like when people line up for movies an hour in advance, when you can just walk in 10 minutes after it started and find a seat and not worry about the cocoa cola commercials you missed
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