It is silly to blame the backers of a well-known person and a well-thought idea. That's not the backers' responsibility, it's not their fault. They did everything correct.
It was still an idea, and ideas can fail or run into unforeseen problems. If you don't have that in mind, you're better off not spending your money on Kickstarter projects or anything like that.
I never said I didn't have that on my mind when I backed a project. I am saying backing projects isn't a complete meaningless act. It isn't the equivalent of throwing your money away. And when you support a decent one, and the project fails not due to divine intervention but because of the stupidity of people behind it, telling people what you just told me would make the whole crowdfunding meaningless.
As I said, I am interested in crowdfunding. I like this business. But with your mindset, even the most awful gamblers will stop getting into this game. Your logic will be the end of crowdfunding.
Also I said we back an idea, and the people behind it. I'm not talking about the case of people delivering the said idea but the idea turns out to be terrible. I'm talking about people not delivering the idea. There is a very big difference.
It's like my cousin asking for money to start a new business, I like his idea, he does it, but it won't make any monies. You can say, well it was just an idea, it didn't work out. And I'll be fine with it.
But if it never launches due to the vast amount of miscalculations, deception, stupidity, or whatever reason that falls in the responsibility of my cousin, then fuck my cousin for wasting everyone's trust and money.
Failing is always predicted, what differentiates people is why they have failed.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
From my point of view, there are already more pretty fun games than I can realistically play. Hell, my biggest problem atm is analysis paralysis on which game I want to give my free time to.
If crowdfunding/Early Access falls apart and no more crowdfunding games get made, I'll still have more fun games than I can realistically play, and no gamers will be pouring money into poorly-managed pipe dream style products.
So, from my point of view, crowdfunding brings little to justify the downsides, specifically in the MMORPG genre.
He held on to this date to his investors and fans until Oct 2019 when he finally walked back on the promise in a MOP interview, moving the target to 2020.
We spoke to Jacobs this past summer
to ask him about the ongoing beta, knowing that the game was
Kickstarted over six years ago and is now many years behind schedule. At
the time, he wouldn’t confirm that the game was being delayed past
2019, suggesting there was still a chance if enough engineers were
secured, but now we know for sure. [my italics]
You can't fool me. I was already part of the fan community around CU in 2019, so I know very well what happened that year. Yes, we all, including MJ, hoped that the development process of CU would come to an end, but there was never a concrete date promised by CSE, not even a release year was mentioned.
But with your mindset, even the most awful gamblers will stop getting into this game. Your logic will be the end of crowdfunding.
Yeah, no. Nowhere did I say that a Kickstarter project should be considered a failure from the start. I said that a possible failure should always be in the back of your mind. In any case, you should be prepared from the beginning that the project will not take the best possible course.
But if it never launches due to the vast amount of miscalculations, deception, stupidity, or whatever reason that falls in the responsibility of my cousin, then fuck my cousin for wasting everyone's trust and money.
First, MJ did not commit fraud, deceit or anything like that. Secondly, a small company cannot be expected to always make the best use of its resources. They lack the man-hours for planning & scheduling.
He held on to this date to his investors and fans until Oct 2019 when he finally walked back on the promise in a MOP interview, moving the target to 2020.
We spoke to Jacobs this past summer
to ask him about the ongoing beta, knowing that the game was
Kickstarted over six years ago and is now many years behind schedule. At
the time, he wouldn’t confirm that the game was being delayed past
2019, suggesting there was still a chance if enough engineers were
secured, but now we know for sure. [my italics]
You can't fool me. I was already part of the fan community around CU in 2019, so I know very well what happened that year. Yes, we all, including MJ, hoped that the development process of CU would come to an end, but there was never a concrete date promised by CSE, not even a release year was mentioned.
Yeah and here's the video where he says they will not be ready in 2019. At around 3:50 in...
He was hinting at it and it was absolute bullshit. Then he mentioned 2020, again bullshit. Here we are in 2021 with nothing in sight and concept art and sounds in the latest newsletter. Give me a break.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
First, MJ did not commit fraud, deceit or anything like that. Secondly, a small company cannot be expected to always make the best use of its resources. They lack the man-hours for planning & scheduling.
They are small so they can't plan? Although this is not a logical excuse, but let's go with this. If this is a fact, then why did they launch a campaign based on a plan in the first place? They should have said we are small, and we have no plans, nor schedules. But they didn't do that did they?
There is your deceit.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
I reckon it's just massive mismanagement of funds. My theories are these Kickstarters pay themselves and staff too much of the pie which then cripples development when they can't afford to pay for licenses etc to do the work. Well-known devs that are used to a certain salary continue to seek a similar salary, and in doing so drain the war chest. They either get picked up by a bigger company that can lavish them with cash or they suck the funding dry. I'd love to see what the take-home for these devs/CEOs is. Especially the failed ones.
More on the topic: Someone else said it but there likely just isn't money to give back quickly. So they save up and pay off the next refund when they can afford it.
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
You are too nice, I would have slagged your contractor on every online review site availabile after reporting him to local building authorities and the BBB.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
He held on to this date to his investors and fans until Oct 2019 when he finally walked back on the promise in a MOP interview, moving the target to 2020.
We spoke to Jacobs this past summer
to ask him about the ongoing beta, knowing that the game was
Kickstarted over six years ago and is now many years behind schedule. At
the time, he wouldn’t confirm that the game was being delayed past
2019, suggesting there was still a chance if enough engineers were
secured, but now we know for sure. [my italics]
You can't fool me. I was already part of the fan community around CU in 2019, so I know very well what happened that year. Yes, we all, including MJ, hoped that the development process of CU would come to an end, but there was never a concrete date promised by CSE, not even a release year was mentioned.
To think someone could sell a bridge, again and again yet still get people to thank them for the opportunity...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
Besides Sony's studios that provide exclusives for Playstation, I rarely see any big studio to try to do anything new. The whole industry is about sequels, remakes, and remasters.
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
Besides Sony's studios that provide exclusives for Playstation, I rarely see any big studio to try to do anything new. The whole industry is about sequels, remakes, and remasters.
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
I disagree. Bethesda went a completely different direction with Starfield compared to the franchise that built the studio, at least in setting and feeling.
Fallout 76 was not an indie developer trying to bring the long-requested multiplayer to the franchise.
Deathloop was not indie.
Elden Ring sees the Souls developer go first person with a completely new IP in cooperation with George R.R. Martin.
It isn't that the AAA studios aren't willing to do anything new, in my opinion. They just aren't trying to rewrite the entire book at once on the backs of consumer pledges. That doesn't mean all indies aren't pushing the genre forward. But crowdfunding ain't the reason it's happening, and it isn't a prerequisite for that sort of indie development.
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
Besides Sony's studios that provide exclusives for Playstation, I rarely see any big studio to try to do anything new. The whole industry is about sequels, remakes, and remasters.
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
I disagree. Bethesda went a completely different direction with Starfield compared to the franchise that built the studio, at least in setting and feeling.
Fallout 76 was not an indie developer trying to bring the long-requested multiplayer to the franchise.
Deathloop was not indie.
Elden Ring sees the Souls developer go first person with a completely new IP in cooperation with George R.R. Martin.
It isn't that the AAA studios aren't willing to do anything new, in my opinion. They just aren't trying to rewrite the entire book at once on the backs of consumer pledges. That doesn't mean all indies aren't pushing the genre forward. But crowdfunding ain't the reason it's happening, and it isn't a prerequisite for that sort of indie development.
Regarding AAA studios I said rarely mate, didn't say never. And I didn't mean all indies obviously. It is the same deal of big companies and start ups.
Crowdfunding isn't a prerequisite, but it has certainly helped a lot projects kick off with a large amount of seed money and ongoing contributions.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
In this case they were promised refunds, which are being paid out, albeit very slowly.
One point of order, as I recall the Kickstarter did not have a refund clause, Mark actually added that group into the eligibility pool after the initial delivery deadlines went long past.
Though tempted to refund, I still let my pledge ride somewhat because that was the original terms of the deal which I'm willing to honor.
Also, as you recommended, I did not pledge more than I was willing to lose, but if I had spent $7K like I've read some people did on other crowd funded games I'd probably be a lot less forgiving.
If someone spent $7k on CU crowdfunding they probably needed to learn a life lesson anyway. That's not a healthy decision.
He was hinting at it and it was absolute bullshit. Then he mentioned 2020, again bullshit. Here we are in 2021 with nothing in sight and concept art and sounds in the latest newsletter. Give me a break.
He wasn't. Just because someone does not give a clear answer does not mean it is confirmed. No answer does not mean yes.
Small companies actually are easier to manage in terms of planning, scheduling and resource utilization. I am saying this as someone who has worked in companies of 150, 1000 and 350000 employees. This is one of the reasons why agile development is aiming at small, self-governing and self-organizing teams.
As far as I understand it, things like scheduling, project management, etc. are part of a producer's job. And a good producer has been lacking at CSE for a long time.
They are small so they can't plan? Although this is not a logical excuse, but let's go with this. If this is a fact, then why did they launch a campaign based on a plan in the first place? They should have said we are small, and we have no plans, nor schedules. But they didn't do that did they?
They shouldn't have bothered in the first place? So that some here can "vent" even more about CSE and MJ?
They are small so they can't plan? Although this is not a logical excuse, but let's go with this. If this is a fact, then why did they launch a campaign based on a plan in the first place? They should have said we are small, and we have no plans, nor schedules. But they didn't do that did they?
They shouldn't have bothered in the first place? So that some here can "vent" even more about CSE and MJ?
They did bother in the first place. They launched their campaign with a plan, that's how they got money.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Small companies actually are easier to manage in terms of planning, scheduling and resource utilization. I am saying this as someone who has worked in companies of 150, 1000 and 350000 employees. This is one of the reasons why agile development is aiming at small, self-governing and self-organizing teams.
As far as I understand it, things like scheduling, project management, etc. are part of a producer's job. And a good producer has been lacking at CSE for a long time.
Hmm, Tyler Rockwell was CU's producer for almost 7 years, leaving the firm in March 2020, right after the announcement of their 2nd game. (and after missing the 2019 target date)
They posted a Producer wanted advert about a year ago, no idea if they filled it or not.
Regardless, MJ runs this show, he's accountable and who's been "lacking" for a very long time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
Besides Sony's studios that provide exclusives for Playstation, I rarely see any big studio to try to do anything new. The whole industry is about sequels, remakes, and remasters.
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
I disagree. Bethesda went a completely different direction with Starfield compared to the franchise that built the studio, at least in setting and feeling.
Fallout 76 was not an indie developer trying to bring the long-requested multiplayer to the franchise.
Deathloop was not indie.
Elden Ring sees the Souls developer go first person with a completely new IP in cooperation with George R.R. Martin.
It isn't that the AAA studios aren't willing to do anything new, in my opinion. They just aren't trying to rewrite the entire book at once on the backs of consumer pledges. That doesn't mean all indies aren't pushing the genre forward. But crowdfunding ain't the reason it's happening, and it isn't a prerequisite for that sort of indie development.
Regarding AAA studios I said rarely mate, didn't say never. And I didn't mean all indies obviously. It is the same deal of big companies and start ups.
Crowdfunding isn't a prerequisite, but it has certainly helped a lot projects kick off with a large amount of seed money and ongoing contributions.
I think this is a bad time to try and make this argument. We have more than one or two new IPs/types of games coming from AAA studios while crowdfunded MMORPGs left and right are failing to deliver a product that more than 10 people want to play, or even delivering a fully realized product.
Crowdfunding increased the risk for consumer considerably, and it hasn't "revolutionized" the industry by showing just how awesome the indie devs are. It's had some good titles, some bad, and arguably made them cost a lot more to consumers as consumers start footing bills producers used to foot fully.
I know it is hard to walk away but pretending how long you've had to wait for a refund means something, when all the money is gone, is silly. How many times does this guy have to prove he's unreliable before you realize he's unreliable?
Last summer I contracted a guy to pour some concrete for me. I paid him $2200.00 up front on a $6000.00 job.
Two weeks later, after the job was started... sorta... and numerous failures to show up, and the excuses that were silly.... and half ass this, and half ass that, I let him go and didn't ask for a refund because I knew that wasn't going to happen. When he called to apologize (that is, to set me up for another payment for nothing) I told him I understood and wished him luck getting his shit together. Have a nice life, you're no longer in mine.
Then I dismissed it and haven't thought about it since (except for this post).
I'd say there is no refund to be had. Get this guy out of your head, he ain't worth it.
This is good advise.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
I think it's irresponsible to suggest crowdfunding via the donate and hope model will push our genre forward. It's been proven over a 10 year period it does not work.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
Besides Sony's studios that provide exclusives for Playstation, I rarely see any big studio to try to do anything new. The whole industry is about sequels, remakes, and remasters.
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
I disagree. Bethesda went a completely different direction with Starfield compared to the franchise that built the studio, at least in setting and feeling.
Fallout 76 was not an indie developer trying to bring the long-requested multiplayer to the franchise.
Deathloop was not indie.
Elden Ring sees the Souls developer go first person with a completely new IP in cooperation with George R.R. Martin.
It isn't that the AAA studios aren't willing to do anything new, in my opinion. They just aren't trying to rewrite the entire book at once on the backs of consumer pledges. That doesn't mean all indies aren't pushing the genre forward. But crowdfunding ain't the reason it's happening, and it isn't a prerequisite for that sort of indie development.
Regarding AAA studios I said rarely mate, didn't say never. And I didn't mean all indies obviously. It is the same deal of big companies and start ups.
Crowdfunding isn't a prerequisite, but it has certainly helped a lot projects kick off with a large amount of seed money and ongoing contributions.
I think this is a bad time to try and make this argument. We have more than one or two new IPs/types of games coming from AAA studios while crowdfunded MMORPGs left and right are failing to deliver a product that more than 10 people want to play, or even delivering a fully realized product.
Crowdfunding increased the risk for consumer considerably, and it hasn't "revolutionized" the industry by showing just how awesome the indie devs are. It's had some good titles, some bad, and arguably made them cost a lot more to consumers as consumers start footing bills producers used to foot fully.
I'm not really criticising AAA studios mate, they make the most of the games that I play. But the other types of games that I also like, are not getting much love from the AAA studios for the past decade. New IPs aren't MMORPGs. And the one that was, well, I liked it and played it a lot less than many other early-access games, and ironically, it even had more bugs.
Obviously I can't force AAA studios to make MMORPGs, I only can support the crowdfunding projects, that is the only choice I have to help something I like become a reality. The other choice is well not support them. Which is a choice millions of people are making every day. The total amount of monies raised in all of crowdfunded games of all time don't even make up for %0.5 of the video-game industry revenue in 2021 year.
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As I said, I am interested in crowdfunding. I like this business. But with your mindset, even the most awful gamblers will stop getting into this game. Your logic will be the end of crowdfunding.
Also I said we back an idea, and the people behind it. I'm not talking about the case of people delivering the said idea but the idea turns out to be terrible. I'm talking about people not delivering the idea. There is a very big difference.
It's like my cousin asking for money to start a new business, I like his idea, he does it, but it won't make any monies. You can say, well it was just an idea, it didn't work out. And I'll be fine with it.
But if it never launches due to the vast amount of miscalculations, deception, stupidity, or whatever reason that falls in the responsibility of my cousin, then fuck my cousin for wasting everyone's trust and money.
Failing is always predicted, what differentiates people is why they have failed.
If crowdfunding/Early Access falls apart and no more crowdfunding games get made, I'll still have more fun games than I can realistically play, and no gamers will be pouring money into poorly-managed pipe dream style products.
So, from my point of view, crowdfunding brings little to justify the downsides, specifically in the MMORPG genre.
He was hinting at it and it was absolute bullshit. Then he mentioned 2020, again bullshit. Here we are in 2021 with nothing in sight and concept art and sounds in the latest newsletter. Give me a break.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/There is your deceit.
But there is a difference, you will go and hire someone else. You won't give up on you stupid concrete project. Or you won't believe that concrete people are incompetent liars. And you weren't his fan. You didn't believe in his vision or fell in love with his idea.
Crowdfunding on the other hand is a very different experience for most people.
I'm glad many projects have led into fruition. And there are ones that haven't yet but people like where they are and what they have done. They will help to push the industry forward.
There has to be a vested intrest on the part of the developer beyond the initial payment.
More on the topic: Someone else said it but there likely just isn't money to give back quickly. So they save up and pay off the next refund when they can afford it.
Case in point, this thread, 8 years plus...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Indie developers are the ones taking risks doing creative and innovative stuff. Obviously they can't afford to create MMORPGs without crowdfunding. If they get funded, and release a product successfully, then they will push the industry forward. Of course, when they fail, then it won't.
I think this is a simple observation, not a suggestion, let alone an irresponsible one.
Fallout 76 was not an indie developer trying to bring the long-requested multiplayer to the franchise.
Deathloop was not indie.
Elden Ring sees the Souls developer go first person with a completely new IP in cooperation with George R.R. Martin.
It isn't that the AAA studios aren't willing to do anything new, in my opinion. They just aren't trying to rewrite the entire book at once on the backs of consumer pledges. That doesn't mean all indies aren't pushing the genre forward. But crowdfunding ain't the reason it's happening, and it isn't a prerequisite for that sort of indie development.
Crowdfunding isn't a prerequisite, but it has certainly helped a lot projects kick off with a large amount of seed money and ongoing contributions.
who is beyond help just wondering?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They posted a Producer wanted advert about a year ago, no idea if they filled it or not.
Regardless, MJ runs this show, he's accountable and who's been "lacking" for a very long time.
https://gamejobs.co/Producer-at-City-State-Entertainment
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerrockwell
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Crowdfunding increased the risk for consumer considerably, and it hasn't "revolutionized" the industry by showing just how awesome the indie devs are. It's had some good titles, some bad, and arguably made them cost a lot more to consumers as consumers start footing bills producers used to foot fully.
Obviously I can't force AAA studios to make MMORPGs, I only can support the crowdfunding projects, that is the only choice I have to help something I like become a reality. The other choice is well not support them. Which is a choice millions of people are making every day. The total amount of monies raised in all of crowdfunded games of all time don't even make up for %0.5 of the video-game industry revenue in 2021 year.