Actually... let me fix that for you: It's not the GAMER'S fault that this DEVELOPER seems to have zero clue about what it takes to make video games. The DEVELOPER is the one who took my money with an estimated delivery date that passed 8 years ago. Instead they are 8 YEARS past that and I have not played 1 single second of the game. They filmed the damn scenes 7 YEARS AGO. That alone indicates a totally chaotic and fucked up development schedule So don't even TRY to turn this shit on GAMERs That is just absolutely fucking pathetic.
You bought the early bird ticket for a ride you didn't know much about and with little guarantees. If all you wanted was to get to the destination you should have went it a secure transportation. Just like pre-order, crowdfunding has it's risks, if you're not aware of them or prepared to endure them it's on you alone.
I think gamers are well aware. It does however look like CIG are the clueless ones, why else did they keep giving dates only to fail them spectacularly every time? The only thing you can blame gamers for is actually buying the BS they’ve been given. CIG created the hype and time tables, dumb gamers for believing in them…
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You do realize that the footage you are using to show progress is 4 years old right?
Doesn't that ALONE tell you something is wrong?
I mentioned it is nothing new. I'm just saying that there is no guesswork game as far how SQ42 looks and how it plays. From then to now if they were to show the same vertical slice it would probably just look improved on the areas they improved for SC as well since (graphics this, AI that, etc).
I don't agree myself CR path with this, as on 2020 he stated that will only show SQ42 once its close to release. And since, nothing.
Unless there is some major pressure from backers, and with the statement on the interview mentioned here (that we're up to a wait of about 2 if not more years), then it's likely this year will be another year of radio silence beyond their monthly reports for the campaign.
It might be true that the state of SC is a good indication of how far along SQ42 is. But I sincerely hope not because that would mean the 2019 and Q3 2020 Beta dates, let alone the 2014 release date, would be some of the most straight up bullshit ever having been presented to gamers. Even now SC is not close to Beta, no way in hell it was any closer two years ago, something CIG must have been well aware of at the time they threw those dates around.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Let's look at an article about games that took too long... https://www.goliath.com/gaming/video-games-that-took-way-too-long-to-make/ 4. The last Guardian 9 years <--- Star Citizen 10 years and counting... 3. Prey 11 years 2. Diablo 3 11 years 1. Duke Nuken forever 15 years Even in an article about video games that took way too long to make Star Citizen is already looking like it will give Duke Nuken a run for it's money.
Kinda outdated and very incomplete list that one. There's plenty of games who took longer to developer but since their work was done in secrecy it doesn't get added to the tally. You've might have noticed how the time to develop massive AAA games has ramped up significantly as time goes.
A good example is in the GTA series which Rockstar has been developing like clockwork for many years. As soon as they finish one GTA they would immediately star working on the next one. As the series became bigger and more complex the development time also increased.
GTAV released in 2013 so GTA6 has been in the works for 9 years and counting. RedDeadRedemption 1 took 4 years to develop RDR2 took 8 years. The Witcher 3 took considerable less time to develop than Cyberpunk. And so on. Same with Bethesda's Skyrim sequel and so on.
Oh yes, the risk is definitely all on the backers, CR doesn't have any. But failure? He totally owns all of it like any ship captain. Now you not understanding this? That's clearly thats all you.
Oh CR did partake the biggest risk from everyone else as he had to invest deeply (time & money) to get the ball rolling. Buying the Crytek license, making the protophyte, paying concept artists and dev's etc
It is absolutely the developers fault (and yours) to not understand the concept of delivering a Minimal Marketable Product in order to reduce time to market. Here's a link you can share with uncle Chris.
Those who don't understand that CIG and Chris Roberts don't have and will not deliver "Minimal Marketable Product to reduce time to market." as they have no competition or funding problems.
That's what makes Star Citizen Alpha project so unique, the dev's have the time to implement technology and features that traditional studios can't.
If it would be to make another game with the same compromises of traditional studios there would be no need of crowdfunding in the first place.
Star Citizen announced 10 years ago and no other company has been able to release anything remotely close to even scratch what's possible to play in the current Alpha build of Star Citizen, much less it's complete vision. If it was easy to do some other studio would have done it by now, yet here we are. With Star Citizen getting more players every year and breaking funding records along the way.
Let's look at an article about games that took too long... https://www.goliath.com/gaming/video-games-that-took-way-too-long-to-make/ 4. The last Guardian 9 years <--- Star Citizen 10 years and counting... 3. Prey 11 years 2. Diablo 3 11 years 1. Duke Nuken forever 15 years Even in an article about video games that took way too long to make Star Citizen is already looking like it will give Duke Nuken a run for it's money.
Kinda outdated and very incomplete list that one. There's plenty of games who took longer to developer but since their work was done in secrecy it doesn't get added to the tally. You've might have noticed how the time to develop massive AAA games has ramped up significantly as time goes.
A good example is in the GTA series which Rockstar has been developing like clockwork for many years. As soon as they finish one GTA they would immediately star working on the next one. As the series became bigger and more complex the development time also increased.
GTAV released in 2013 so GTA6 has been in the works for 9 years and counting. RedDeadRedemption 1 took 4 years to develop RDR2 took 8 years. The Witcher 3 took considerable less time to develop than Cyberpunk. And so on. Same with Bethesda's Skyrim sequel and so on.
But how many of these companies made promises about release dates and missed them by roughly 400%? Long development cycles aren’t interesting, promises and creating expectations are. Especially in crowdfunding where they are simply tools to keep your donators engaged, and spending. Right around the corner makes money, whenever in the future doesn’t.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You do realize that the footage you are using to show progress is 4 years old right?
Doesn't that ALONE tell you something is wrong?
I mentioned it is nothing new. I'm just saying that there is no guesswork game as far how SQ42 looks and how it plays. From then to now if they were to show the same vertical slice it would probably just look improved on the areas they improved for SC as well since (graphics this, AI that, etc).
I don't agree myself CR path with this, as on 2020 he stated that will only show SQ42 once its close to release. And since, nothing.
Unless there is some major pressure from backers, and with the statement on the interview mentioned here (that we're up to a wait of about 2 if not more years), then it's likely this year will be another year of radio silence beyond their monthly reports for the campaign.
But how many of these companies made promises about release dates and missed them by roughly 400%? Long development cycles aren’t interesting, promises and creating expectations are. Especially in crowdfunding where they are simply tools to keep your donators engaged, and spending. Right around the corner makes money, whenever in the future doesn’t.
Just like estimates are mutable so are expectations. Ability to adapt to the ongoing circumstances of life is a sign of intelligence, same applies to game development and crowdfunding, and the same should apply to gamers who crowdfund games.
More important than crying about delays is understanding why they happen in the first place.
In Star Citizen and Squadron 42 case, delays are a simple effect of the increase of funding and sub-consequent increase of scope of the project. Bigger games bigger ambitious and technology to develop but better game in the end.
Take the procedural planetary tech, which wasn't a "promise" for the first Star Citizen iteration. It implied a reset of development to accommodate it but the "time lost" was gained by adding the game longevity, further-proof and options to the gameplay.
Looking at many other crowdfunded mmo's one can see how hard it is to estimate dates and releases while keeping a community of gamers/investors engaged.
But how many of these companies made promises about release dates and missed them by roughly 400%? Long development cycles aren’t interesting, promises and creating expectations are. Especially in crowdfunding where they are simply tools to keep your donators engaged, and spending. Right around the corner makes money, whenever in the future doesn’t.
Just like estimates are mutable so are expectations. Ability to adapt to the ongoing circumstances of life is a sign of intelligence, same applies to game development and crowdfunding, and the same should apply to gamers who crowdfund games.
More important than crying about delays is understanding why they happen in the first place.
In Star Citizen and Squadron 42 case, delays are a simple effect of the increase of funding and sub-consequent increase of scope of the project. Bigger games bigger ambitious and technology to develop but better game in the end.
Take the procedural planetary tech, which wasn't a "promise" for the first Star Citizen iteration. It implied a reset of development to accommodate it but the "time lost" was gained by adding the game longevity, further-proof and options to the gameplay.
Looking at many other crowdfunded mmo's one can see how hard it is to estimate dates and releases while keeping a community of gamers/investors engaged.
Governments miss estimates on projects that are hundreds of times larger and more complicated than 10 SC's and 10 SQ42's put together.
Yet we as citizens laugh and call our Governments stupid.
It's not a question of faith. I backed for SC so the SQ42 topic doesn't stress me much. SC-wise I play with our orgs and the game can provide great experiences playing like that despite its issues. As I also play other games, SC keeps developing and the company is not on any dire state that would risk the project, it's more chill for me.
I believe those who go bananas over SC, like you can't be everyday there expecting news or progress or is it out yet because their current pace is unable to cope with that expectation, that's just masochistic.
It's not a question of faith. I backed for SC so the SQ42 topic doesn't stress me much. SC-wise I play with our orgs and the game can provide great experiences playing like that despite its issues. As I also play other games, SC keeps developing and the company is not on any dire state that would risk the project, it's more chill for me.
I believe those who go bananas over SC, like you can't be everyday there expecting news or progress or is it out yet because their pace is unable to cope with that, that's just masochistic.
That's awesome Max, but you have not answered my question.
That's awesome Max, but you have not answered my question.
The answer to that falls more on seeing them unable to deliver and ending up stalling, if the game doesn't reflect decent progress then the project's future is at stake.
As is, looking at 2021, that is line with what I expect from it, despite its pace being slower than desired.
I've been playing Star Citizen test builds since 2013 and enjoying them while in awe with the effort and work done by CIG.
Till this day no other game has come close to what they have delivered, even with all the flaws and frustrations of playing a game in heavy alpha development the plus greatly surpass them.
If you enjoy space/sci-fi sims and immersive games, there's simply nothing like it.
That's awesome Max, but you have not answered my question.
The answer to that falls more on seeing them unable to deliver and its pace of dev stalling, if the game doesn't reflect progress then the whole thing is at stake.
As is, looking at 2021, that is line with what I expect from it, despite its pace being slower than desired.
Fair enough
I was sold SQ42
I was sold that SQ42 was proof of concept for SC
Can you understand why I and others may have lost our faith? Can you empathize?
I've been playing Star Citizen test builds since 2013 and enjoying them while in awe with the effort and work done by CIG.
Till this day no other game has come close to what they have delivered, even with all the flaws and frustrations of playing a game in heavy alpha development the plus greatly surpass them.
If you enjoy space/sci-fi sims and immersive games, there's simply nothing like it.
Glad your happy with your "Need for Speed" I'm not, I was sold the best Space Simulator to ever be created.
Genius. Usually when someone is this much of a master of bullcrap and has this big of a cult throwing money at them, they run a religion or run for President. Both of which are mentally exhausting endeavors.
This dude just sits at home and draws pictures of spaceships. Complete genius!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I can't bear seeing these expressions any further - when people describe those that follow the status quo/don't question things/do as they are told as "sheep" or "sheeple". Look, here's the thing: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ABOUT SHEEP. NO IDEA. Ask anyone that actually has any experience of sheep, then go find yourself a new expression, please. If there is one animal that individually, stubbornly, ignores all expert advice, the consensus, thinks it knows better than you, is objectionable, repeatedly does things that could well end in fatal injury, doesn't give a hoot about health and safety, rules or regulations, organises protests and shouts loudly about something they don't understand - it's a sodding sheep HAHA.
Most of us in New Eden gave up on SQ42 a LOOONG TIME AGO.
I can't bear seeing these expressions any further - when people describe those that follow the status quo/don't question things/do as they are told as "sheep" or "sheeple". Look, here's the thing: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHATSOEVER ABOUT SHEEP. NO IDEA. Ask anyone that actually has any experience of sheep, then go find yourself a new expression, please. If there is one animal that individually, stubbornly, ignores all expert advice, the consensus, thinks it knows better than you, is objectionable, repeatedly does things that could well end in fatal injury, doesn't give a hoot about health and safety, rules or regulations, organises protests and shouts loudly about something they don't understand - it's a sodding sheep HAHA.
Most of us in New Eden gave up on SQ42 a LOOONG TIME AGO.
You just described every goat I've ever owned.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
If Chris would have asked us to wait 10-15-20 years for SQ42.
I would have told him to go fuck himself.
You?
That's the real thing. Marketing. Once they'd stumbled upon the huge draw, CIG went into marketing mode. And marketing doesn't work as well if you tell the folks it's going to take a decade plus.
Ten years in, and they can't manage to put a couple of their biggest ships in the same instance. SC hasn't deployed real persistence in their Alpha game. But they are already running it as 'Games as a Service'. And the station elevators can still kill you.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Comments
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
What will it take for you to loose the faith?
I do believe that you are an honest fan.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Yet we as citizens laugh and call our Governments stupid.
I'll ask the same of you as I asked of Max.
What would it take, for you to lose the faith?
That is a sincere question.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I believe those who go bananas over SC, like you can't be everyday there expecting news or progress or is it out yet because their current pace is unable to cope with that expectation, that's just masochistic.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
As is, looking at 2021, that is line with what I expect from it, despite its pace being slower than desired.
I was sold SQ42
I was sold that SQ42 was proof of concept for SC
Can you understand why I and others may have lost our faith? Can you empathize?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I had faith that Chris wasn't full of shit.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If Chris would have asked us to wait 10-15-20 years for SQ42.
I would have told him to go fuck himself.
You?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
This dude just sits at home and draws pictures of spaceships. Complete genius!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I don’t feel betrayed, I feel lied to.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Ten years in, and they can't manage to put a couple of their biggest ships in the same instance. SC hasn't deployed real persistence in their Alpha game. But they are already running it as 'Games as a Service'. And the station elevators can still kill you.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.