Hint: It isn't people interested in the world, it is the arena boys.
Ah yes, that's probably why they continued the main story line and added a dungeon that is quite appreciated by the community... and added absolutely no PvP content yet.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
Again, though, this wasn't a lack of content. Just barriers to content. The content was already created before One Tamriel. Far different than changing from survival to a full-on MMORPG with endgame PvE content.
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
Again, though, this wasn't a lack of content. Just barriers to content. The content was already created before One Tamriel. Far different than changing from survival to a full-on MMORPG with endgame PvE content.
But I don't think that lack of content is NW's biggest problem. It's the lack of opportunity to use what they already have.
They have a good number of dungeons/expeditions in already but they're all gated by keys and levels. They should get rid of those keys, clone them for different level ranges, and let players queue up for them as often as they want.
They have one PvP BG which, granted, is not nearly enough of that type of content, but they could clone it with versions of it for lower level tiers of players while they work on adding more.
The premiere PvP event, wars, are a 50 v. 50 affair and who gets to participate is essentially controlled by 2 guild leaders. Make it a best out of 5 affair to determine the winner and make it so any given player can only fight in one of the five and presto, you have more players able to use that content.
Same thing with the 50 v. mob hordes invasions. Make it best out of whatever number with the same deal that you can only fight in one and you've just engaged many more players.
Those are just some quick examples, off the top of my head, that lets them get more out of what's already there while engaging a larger number of players more often.
I mean... you are definitely right that ESO had much more content at its launch than NW had at theirs but NW is also not using what they do have as best as they could be..
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
Again, though, this wasn't a lack of content. Just barriers to content. The content was already created before One Tamriel. Far different than changing from survival to a full-on MMORPG with endgame PvE content.
But I don't think that lack of content is NW's biggest problem. It's the lack of opportunity to use what they already have.
They have a good number of dungeons/expeditions in already but they're all gated by keys and levels. They should get rid of those keys, clone them for different level ranges, and let players queue up for them as often as they want.
They have one PvP BG which, granted, is not nearly enough of that type of content, but they could clone it with versions of it for lower level tiers of players while they work on adding more.
The premiere PvP event, wars, are a 50 v. 50 affair and who gets to participate is essentially controlled by 2 guild leaders. Make it a best out of 5 affair to determine the winner and make it so any given player can only fight in one of the five and presto, you have more players able to use that content.
Same thing with the 50 v. mob hordes invasions. Make it best out of whatever number with the same deal that you can only fight in one and you've just engaged many more players.
Those are just some quick examples, off the top of my head, that lets them get more out of what's already there while engaging a larger number of players more often.
I mean... you are definitely right that ESO had much more content at its launch than NW had at theirs but NW is also not using what they do have as best as they could be..
All the things that I mention in the OP have been suggested by many players on the official forums. It took 6 months, but changes were made.
There's some hope they will continue in the right direction. Like things you've suggested in your post.
Not to mention the management just changed... This is encouraging.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
Again, though, this wasn't a lack of content. Just barriers to content. The content was already created before One Tamriel. Far different than changing from survival to a full-on MMORPG with endgame PvE content.
But I don't think that lack of content is NW's biggest problem. It's the lack of opportunity to use what they already have.
They have a good number of dungeons/expeditions in already but they're all gated by keys and levels. They should get rid of those keys, clone them for different level ranges, and let players queue up for them as often as they want.
They have one PvP BG which, granted, is not nearly enough of that type of content, but they could clone it with versions of it for lower level tiers of players while they work on adding more.
The premiere PvP event, wars, are a 50 v. 50 affair and who gets to participate is essentially controlled by 2 guild leaders. Make it a best out of 5 affair to determine the winner and make it so any given player can only fight in one of the five and presto, you have more players able to use that content.
Same thing with the 50 v. mob hordes invasions. Make it best out of whatever number with the same deal that you can only fight in one and you've just engaged many more players.
Those are just some quick examples, off the top of my head, that lets them get more out of what's already there while engaging a larger number of players more often.
I mean... you are definitely right that ESO had much more content at its launch than NW had at theirs but NW is also not using what they do have as best as they could be..
All the things that I mention in the OP have been suggested by many players on the official forums. It took 6 months, but changes were made.
There's some hope they will continue in the right direction. Like things you've suggested in your post.
Not to mention the management just changed... This is encouraging.
Touché; this combined with a management change indicates a positive direction.
I cannot see how just making a game easier is going to make a game better. That was the thrust of all the changes you mentioned anyway.
Because these aren't the points of the game that make challenge interesting. The content and PVP interaction are the places where challenge needs to be interesting and that hasn't changed for the easier all that much, at least not where it matters.
No one in the game brags about moving crafting items or storage around. If anything it's the opposite. Everyone knows how much of a pain in the ass it has been to manage crafting material storage and match that with a desired crafting location. It added levels of annoying tedium that took away from time spent with more engaging activities.
This has little, if any, effect with the challenge level in content/pvp. That is why they're called QoL improvements.
Torval you are telling me that you have never questioned QoL as to what it is actually improving? You have been playing ages so I really doubt that. So help me out with what was so good about this.
Crafting always takes time, maybe from what you are saying the way the crafting was organised made the "time traps" seem like a right pain or are you comparing this to other MMOs you have played and saying it is just taking too long?
Moving on, I am sure you must have realised that if you make things in a MMO quicker in any way you need to put something in to soak up that time with something players want to do. I question that what NW already has is solid enough to just fall back on its "content/pvp", based on comments from players who have posted. In fact mate, some of those comments I am thinking of were made by you!
Whats your overall impression of how the game is going, if they have done this much in six (?) months will even doubters like myself be thinking of joining next year?
Of course I question it. I typically question it and I did with this as well which is why I detailed how these are actual QoL improvements and not shallow virtue signaling and PR spin.
As to the rest of your post where you posit that mindless shallow time sinks are a mandatory design that must be accepted at face value, then I disagree because I have also thought through this idea as well and it's a shallow reason to milk subscription and revenue angles and not much more.
Pacing matters a lot in any game and arbitrary time sinks to inflate play time are detrimental to the quality and long term value of most games in my opinion. Poor pacing and sloggy time sinks are a primary reason I put a game down and don't finish it. If the developer doesn't care enough to get pacing right then I can't be arsed to waste my time spinning my wheels for nothing. I could list several (if not most) games where the pacing, at some point, gets all messed up and the quality of game play tanks.
I am not saying we just have to lap up the time sinks, what you said made me think the crafting had some rather odd ones, the design of which almost seemed made to make crafters start thinking about how long the whole process was taking.
I agree with what you have said here, maybe I misinterpreted what you said in your last.
I wonder are you, for that matter is anyone on here posting still playing? It would be good to hear from someone who is and can give us a steer on how much has been done to correct the ships course since launch as it were.
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
What was you opinion of that? I did not leave ESO because of One Tameriel, but I did think it would weaken that sense of RvR PvP? It is a long time ago but if I remember aright I saw the relaxation of the PUG as just too important for gameplay but I always objected to sharing PvE areas. There is a camaraderie of faction that if you weaken too much just fades away. That said even from the beginning it was not as strong as DAOC as it was not proper RvR.
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
What was you opinion of that? I did not leave ESO because of One Tameriel, but I did think it would weaken that sense of RvR PvP? It is a long time ago but if I remember aright I saw the relaxation of the PUG as just too important for gameplay but I always objected to sharing PvE areas. There is a camaraderie of faction that if you weaken too much just fades away.
They faced the reality that PvPers in ESO were a small minority of their player base and catered to TES PvErs who had always hated the division and considered it forced... and profited.
I too liked the original concept but I also recognized that I was in the minority.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Moving ESO to "One Tamriel" only happened one year later and still worked.
I'm not sure that's the same level of vision change. This game straight up lacked PvE content due to its original vision.
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
It did more than that actually. The game as originally designed was very much like Dark Age of Camelot in that the population was divided into 3 alliances not just for PvP but also for the PvE portion of the game.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
What was you opinion of that? I did not leave ESO because of One Tameriel, but I did think it would weaken that sense of RvR PvP? It is a long time ago but if I remember aright I saw the relaxation of the PUG as just too important for gameplay but I always objected to sharing PvE areas. There is a camaraderie of faction that if you weaken too much just fades away.
They faced the reality that PvPers in ESO were a small minority of their player base and catered to TES PvErs who had always hated the division and considered it forced... and profited.
I too liked the original concept but I also recognized that I was in the minority.
Luckily I did not leave saying this would be the end of the game.
We had loads of players in the guild who thought this was going to be a great move and these guys did PvP too. So it seemed clear it was what the majority wanted.
I cannot see how just making a game easier is going to make a game better. That was the thrust of all the changes you mentioned anyway.
Because these aren't the points of the game that make challenge interesting. The content and PVP interaction are the places where challenge needs to be interesting and that hasn't changed for the easier all that much, at least not where it matters.
No one in the game brags about moving crafting items or storage around. If anything it's the opposite. Everyone knows how much of a pain in the ass it has been to manage crafting material storage and match that with a desired crafting location. It added levels of annoying tedium that took away from time spent with more engaging activities.
This has little, if any, effect with the challenge level in content/pvp. That is why they're called QoL improvements.
Torval you are telling me that you have never questioned QoL as to what it is actually improving? You have been playing ages so I really doubt that. So help me out with what was so good about this.
Crafting always takes time, maybe from what you are saying the way the crafting was organised made the "time traps" seem like a right pain or are you comparing this to other MMOs you have played and saying it is just taking too long?
Moving on, I am sure you must have realised that if you make things in a MMO quicker in any way you need to put something in to soak up that time with something players want to do. I question that what NW already has is solid enough to just fall back on its "content/pvp", based on comments from players who have posted. In fact mate, some of those comments I am thinking of were made by you!
Whats your overall impression of how the game is going, if they have done this much in six (?) months will even doubters like myself be thinking of joining next year?
Of course I question it. I typically question it and I did with this as well which is why I detailed how these are actual QoL improvements and not shallow virtue signaling and PR spin.
As to the rest of your post where you posit that mindless shallow time sinks are a mandatory design that must be accepted at face value, then I disagree because I have also thought through this idea as well and it's a shallow reason to milk subscription and revenue angles and not much more.
Pacing matters a lot in any game and arbitrary time sinks to inflate play time are detrimental to the quality and long term value of most games in my opinion. Poor pacing and sloggy time sinks are a primary reason I put a game down and don't finish it. If the developer doesn't care enough to get pacing right then I can't be arsed to waste my time spinning my wheels for nothing. I could list several (if not most) games where the pacing, at some point, gets all messed up and the quality of game play tanks.
I am not saying we just have to lap up the time sinks, what you said made me think the crafting had some rather odd ones, the design of which almost seemed made to make crafters start thinking about how long the whole process was taking.
I agree with what you have said here, maybe I misinterpreted what you said in your last.
I wonder are you, for that matter is anyone on here posting still playing? It would be good to hear from someone who is and can give us a steer on how much has been done to correct the ships course since launch as it were.
I thought it was quite obvious that I was still playing. My bad for overestimating my writing skills... or my reader's reading skill, too
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I cannot see how just making a game easier is going to make a game better. That was the thrust of all the changes you mentioned anyway.
Because these aren't the points of the game that make challenge interesting. The content and PVP interaction are the places where challenge needs to be interesting and that hasn't changed for the easier all that much, at least not where it matters.
No one in the game brags about moving crafting items or storage around. If anything it's the opposite. Everyone knows how much of a pain in the ass it has been to manage crafting material storage and match that with a desired crafting location. It added levels of annoying tedium that took away from time spent with more engaging activities.
This has little, if any, effect with the challenge level in content/pvp. That is why they're called QoL improvements.
Torval you are telling me that you have never questioned QoL as to what it is actually improving? You have been playing ages so I really doubt that. So help me out with what was so good about this.
Crafting always takes time, maybe from what you are saying the way the crafting was organised made the "time traps" seem like a right pain or are you comparing this to other MMOs you have played and saying it is just taking too long?
Moving on, I am sure you must have realised that if you make things in a MMO quicker in any way you need to put something in to soak up that time with something players want to do. I question that what NW already has is solid enough to just fall back on its "content/pvp", based on comments from players who have posted. In fact mate, some of those comments I am thinking of were made by you!
Whats your overall impression of how the game is going, if they have done this much in six (?) months will even doubters like myself be thinking of joining next year?
Of course I question it. I typically question it and I did with this as well which is why I detailed how these are actual QoL improvements and not shallow virtue signaling and PR spin.
As to the rest of your post where you posit that mindless shallow time sinks are a mandatory design that must be accepted at face value, then I disagree because I have also thought through this idea as well and it's a shallow reason to milk subscription and revenue angles and not much more.
Pacing matters a lot in any game and arbitrary time sinks to inflate play time are detrimental to the quality and long term value of most games in my opinion. Poor pacing and sloggy time sinks are a primary reason I put a game down and don't finish it. If the developer doesn't care enough to get pacing right then I can't be arsed to waste my time spinning my wheels for nothing. I could list several (if not most) games where the pacing, at some point, gets all messed up and the quality of game play tanks.
I am not saying we just have to lap up the time sinks, what you said made me think the crafting had some rather odd ones, the design of which almost seemed made to make crafters start thinking about how long the whole process was taking.
I agree with what you have said here, maybe I misinterpreted what you said in your last.
I wonder are you, for that matter is anyone on here posting still playing? It would be good to hear from someone who is and can give us a steer on how much has been done to correct the ships course since launch as it were.
I thought it was quite obvious that I was still playing. My bad for overestimating my writing skills... or my reader's reading skill, too
It wasn't, you did mention continuing a storyline but that might have been the first thing you had done in ages. How do you see the game compared to launch, players like me will give this a serious look at the anniversary of the launch but it is still good to know if:
The questing is significantly better. The disparity between those who feel fully involved in PvP and those who don't is resolved. The challenge dungeons (?) I think that was as close as they got to raids, how is that developing.
I keep saying that posters may keep taking a shot at NW but we are rooting for it to become a all-round solid MMO...we want a new AAA to play.
Cheaper, easier, less effort is generally what the masses want. So kudos I guess. I haven't played in a while because I thought it was a bit easy. At least they're listening to a certain faction of people. If I'm being honest with myself, that faction is much larger than my own. I will continue to hope for an aaa game, but am happy in my less popular niche games
Comments
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
One Tamriel merely opened up existing content to new players, iirc.
Before One Tamriel there had already been a relaxation of that PvE divide in the group finder for PUG dungeons (much like WOW is also about to do) and there was a mix of players from different alliances already sharing PvE spaces in DLC zones.
One Tamriel got rid of all the PvE divisions everywhere. That was a pretty big about face that changed one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They have a good number of dungeons/expeditions in already but they're all gated by keys and levels. They should get rid of those keys, clone them for different level ranges, and let players queue up for them as often as they want.
They have one PvP BG which, granted, is not nearly enough of that type of content, but they could clone it with versions of it for lower level tiers of players while they work on adding more.
The premiere PvP event, wars, are a 50 v. 50 affair and who gets to participate is essentially controlled by 2 guild leaders. Make it a best out of 5 affair to determine the winner and make it so any given player can only fight in one of the five and presto, you have more players able to use that content.
Same thing with the 50 v. mob hordes invasions. Make it best out of whatever number with the same deal that you can only fight in one and you've just engaged many more players.
Those are just some quick examples, off the top of my head, that lets them get more out of what's already there while engaging a larger number of players more often.
I mean... you are definitely right that ESO had much more content at its launch than NW had at theirs but NW is also not using what they do have as best as they could be..
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All the things that I mention in the OP have been suggested by many players on the official forums. It took 6 months, but changes were made.
This is encouraging.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I agree with what you have said here, maybe I misinterpreted what you said in your last.
I wonder are you, for that matter is anyone on here posting still playing? It would be good to hear from someone who is and can give us a steer on how much has been done to correct the ships course since launch as it were.
I too liked the original concept but I also recognized that I was in the minority.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We had loads of players in the guild who thought this was going to be a great move and these guys did PvP too. So it seemed clear it was what the majority wanted.
I thought it was quite obvious that I was still playing. My bad for overestimating my writing skills... or my reader's reading skill, too
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The questing is significantly better.
The disparity between those who feel fully involved in PvP and those who don't is resolved.
The challenge dungeons (?) I think that was as close as they got to raids, how is that developing.
I keep saying that posters may keep taking a shot at NW but we are rooting for it to become a all-round solid MMO...we want a new AAA to play.