The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Dolphin is a term I've seen used for the 2nd tier player who spends some money regularly on a F2P game and I suspect hooks like more storage, cheaper travel costs, and other convenience items have increased their numbers over the years.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Yup... that's one of the reasons I gave up. Not only is there a cash shop that becomes more and more needed as you go, but they have sooo many currencies in game that it's utterly confusing. I guess they feel that by obscuring the actual price people do not realize what they are spending, but for me it was just... WTF? If I can't even figure out how much item X is costing me there is no way I'm ever buying it.
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Why people have such a pisser about an item shop, I will not grasp,
Because it's supposed to be a game.. and going outside the game to buy things with real money goes very much against that concept. Why people cannot understand that, I will not grasp. Imagine playing Monopoly but buying Houses for $5 a pop... or an extra dice roll for $2... or hell why not just be able to buy the properties for cash?
But you do you. Knock yourself out buying your pixel trinkets to your hearts content. I do not want cash shop games to die, I just want a few alternates for people that think Cash Shops suck.
My biggest "gripe" with cash shops was: I want to play the same game as everyone else. To each their own, right
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
As always, I would make a value judgement based on the game. If it is worth my time then I'd be willing to pay quite a lot.
Back in the day when MMORPGs could still hold my attention, I pretty much exclusively played them and nothing else (except a bit of couch coop with friends ofc). So, for nearly 7 years, all I paid for gaming was £8.99 a month plus the occasional box price or expansion. Cheapest time in my gaming history for sure, and also the most satisfying!
I guess I would put my upper limit at around £40 per month. But, it had better be damn good for that money!
The same for me. EQ saved me money by keeping my attention riveted from 2001 through 2003. I missed a lot of games released during that period.
I have since purchased and played many of those games I missed during that time
EQ didnt save me money...Spent quite a bit just to play...In fact, because I was paying for EQ I didnt look at games like Asheron's Call because I didnt want multiple subs. Back then. we paid for subs because there was no other option. If AC or some of the other titles back then had cheaper or free options, then I would have tried them...but they didn't...It was either pay for the box, subs, and expansions or dont play our game.
and the best part!
After you paid for the Box $50 The Expansion $50 and a years Sub, $180
If you want to log in and play on your 366th day.. you need to pay $15 more for that next month.
Hmm, just like my cell phone bill, after a year of paying them a fortune if I stop paying my phone stops working, even if I own the cell phone...weird.
You're not required to subscribe to a mobile plan to use a cell phone. You can buy them and then charge time and data to it.
Who do you pay for that time and data? It may not be a "subscription", but then you get to count every phone call and video/text message/e-mail.
Point is, for me, you may "own" the cell phone, but without "paying for service", your phone is just an expensive paper weight
The old sub MMORPGs still had your character data so when you wanted to play again, just pay access and play again.
It's this way with all subscriptions, from magazines to cable/satellite to streaming. Why do people find it so hard to "believe?"
Subscriptions have been around a lot longer than video games and was a way for companies and businesses to insure a steady income. If the service was good, a customer kept the subscription up. If they became dissatisfied, they stopped.
Greed is why they stopped because it put a "cap" on the income stream. I can't fault the games as that's just good business practice
[edit]
PS: As Theocritus pointed out, those subs kept me from looking at other MMORPGs at the time. I was "done" with EQ when I started looking around again and found City of Heroes that grabbed my attention back.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Who do you pay for that time and data? It may not be a "subscription", but then you get to count every phone call and video/text message/e-mail.
Point is, for me, you may "own" the cell phone, but without "paying for service", your phone is just an expensive paper weight
The old sub MMORPGs still had your character data so when you wanted to play again, just pay access and play again.
It's this way with all subscriptions, from magazines to cable/satellite to streaming. Why do people find it so hard to "believe?"
Subscriptions have been around a lot longer than video games and was a way for companies and businesses to insure a steady income. If the service was good, a customer kept the subscription up. If they became dissatisfied, they stopped.
Greed is why they stopped because it put a "cap" on the income stream. I can't fault the games as that's just good business practice
[edit]
PS: As Theocritus pointed out, those subs kept me from looking at other MMORPGs at the time. I was "done" with EQ when I started looking around again and found City of Heroes that grabbed my attention back.
I understand Torval's perspective, and there's a myriad of factors in today's landscape that makes a sub only revenue stream fairly unattractive for both gamers and developers.
But you're right that, when these games were sub only, it was a much more straightforward assessment for consumers. Either paying for access was worth it, or it wasn't. No confusing that by adding items of convenience in the cash shop ("This is tedious, but maybe if I bought that Double Skill Points Scroll..."), no confusing the price by having you purchase "store currency" that never seemed to come in the same amount as anything you want to purchase, meaning you always leave a balance over to encourage you to add more currency and buy something else that will inevitably leave you with a small balance once again.
The more straightforward situation is generally going to be the most consumer-friendly, because consumers don't have dedicated teams of individuals to crunch numbers and study marketing psychology for them. These studios/publishers do, and they use them aggressively.
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
A couple of points as this single survey by a company no one has ever heard of is often quoted as the definitive source on who really pays.
First, it is 8 years old and a lot has changed in gaming and the world since then, mobile gaming's rise to prominence being a major shift in the model.
Second, the percentages of payers are likely vastly skewed downward by a single comment at the top of the survey,
“Swrve research finds ... two-thirds of people stop playing after one day"
so if they are removed from the total the percentage of gamers actually playing and paying is probably much higher.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why people have such a pisser about an item shop, I will not grasp,
Because it's supposed to be a game.. and going outside the game to buy things with real money goes very much against that concept. Why people cannot understand that, I will not grasp. Imagine playing Monopoly but buying Houses for $5 a pop... or an extra dice roll for $2... or hell why not just be able to buy the properties for cash?
But you do you. Knock yourself out buying your pixel trinkets to your hearts content. I do not want cash shop games to die, I just want a few alternates for people that think Cash Shops suck.
My biggest "gripe" with cash shops was: I want to play the same game as everyone else. To each their own, right
No, you want everyone else to play the same game as you, there is a difference.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Last I heard the 1-2% whales were like 90+% of the f2p income...We get different numbers on this all the time, probably depending on who is doing the research and what their angle is. Some of these whales spend thousands, which is just mind boggling to me.
If a game has a sub, then i don't think it should have a cash shop too. Subbing to the game should give you access to everything the game has. If there is a F2P part, with a cash shop, then the sub should give you enough free "cash" to buy most things in the shop.
But don't charge a sub, then add a cash shop, then add loot box gambling, then add NFT's, and then add a cost for each little DLC.
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
A couple of points as this single survey by a company no one has ever heard of is often quoted as the definitive source on who really pays.
First, it is 8 years old and a lot has changed in gaming and the world since then, mobile gaming's rise to prominence being a major shift in the model.
Second, the percentages of payers are likely vastly skewed downward by a single comment at the top of the survey,
“Swrve research finds ... two-thirds of people stop playing after one day"
so if they are removed from the total the percentage of gamers actually playing and paying is probably much higher.
Sure, the study is from 2014, but anything is better than guessing, no? While the platforms have evolved over the 8 years, we're talking about human psychology here, not about the technology that exploits it - that's just a tool. I don't see much reason for the broad spending patterns in gaming to change over 8 years just because mobile now has a much stronger position - the share of the whales and their spending habits ought to remain roughly the same.
From my own perspective, I don't really see much change in how the games target their monetisation strategies, if anything, they gear them towards the biggest whales even more than before. Take the recently discussed SotA; or Star Citizen's $40k Legatus package; the NFT crazies out there willing to spend thousands and more on any rubbish; and the list goes on.
There are many companies we've never heard of, running in the background of various businesses, and providing services to business clients. Swrve is one of them. Even if you haven't heard of it, a quick Google search will reveal a bit more and might lead you to this:
"With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Presumably, based on their own research for their gaming business clients. So if anything, the share of the biggest whales in overall spending has grown fairly significantly over those 8 years...
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
A couple of points as this single survey by a company no one has ever heard of is often quoted as the definitive source on who really pays.
First, it is 8 years old and a lot has changed in gaming and the world since then, mobile gaming's rise to prominence being a major shift in the model.
Second, the percentages of payers are likely vastly skewed downward by a single comment at the top of the survey,
“Swrve research finds ... two-thirds of people stop playing after one day"
so if they are removed from the total the percentage of gamers actually playing and paying is probably much higher.
Sure, the study is from 2014, but anything is better than guessing, no? While the platforms have evolved over the 8 years, we're talking about human psychology here, not about the technology that exploits it - that's just a tool. I don't see much reason for the broad spending patterns in gaming to change over 8 years just because mobile now has a much stronger position - the share of the whales and their spending habits ought to remain roughly the same.
From my own perspective, I don't really see much change in how the games target their monetisation strategies, if anything, they gear them towards the biggest whales even more than before. Take the recently discussed SotA; or Star Citizen's $40k Legatus package; the NFT crazies out there willing to spend thousands and more on any rubbish; and the list goes on.
There are many companies we've never heard of, running in the background of various businesses, and providing services to business clients. Swrve is one of them. Even if you haven't heard of it, a quick Google search will reveal a bit more and might lead you to this:
"With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Presumably, based on their own research for their gaming business clients. So if anything, the share of the biggest whales in overall spending has grown fairly significantly over those 8 years...
Sounds like another Super Data to me so their guesstimate are just that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only way I see subs coming back is a really big IP like ESO, they launched with just a sub, it could be done again. But it would need an IP as big as that and be AAA, that's why I see sub only an unlikely option.
As I mentioned elsewhere with most players only playing just about any MMO for only two to three months, a sub only could make sense for them, if a three month sub costs £40 you know you won't spend more than that. But the psychological barrier is huge, it took something as big as ESO to overcome that barrier before, that's why a AAA big IP is the only hope.
Well, you mean the return of the sub only model, because many newer games have subs, but they are both optional and usually not all inclusive.
Take "Free to Play" Lost Ark, has an optional $9.99 sub (Crystaline Aura) which provides some very limited but nice to have perks.
Now they are introducing a Battlepass and a Premium Battlepass it seems, currently giving players a free taste of it which so far had given me 6 levels of rewards, mostly chests of different types of boosters or materials.
No idea what they cost because I haven't bothered to click either of the buttons on the tracking screen but I'm sure along with the aura it will add up to more money than a traditional sub game, but again, will be entirely optional.
Also, my Platinum pre-order pack provided me with a nice supply of blue crystals which are vital to some in game activities which have been slowly but surely drained away and I can see one day needed to purchase more and they aren't particularly cheap.
Additionally, you don't buy them directly, you purchase say 7000 orange crystals, that are not tradeable and then exchange them for a lesser amount of blue crystals, say 4000 but those are tradeable. Makes my head hurt.
Gold can be earned in game, but appears one must learn to play the market effectively in order to really make enough to fully gear up in the later stages, otherwise I'm sure there's a cash shop related solution as well.
Free to Play indeed.
I would like to see some data on the percentage of players who play for free in any F2P MMO, having not put one penny in. I just can't believe F2P MMOs are just funded by whales now, I think those who pay a moderate amount must be on the rise. Whales are likely still the majority of income but not as overwhelmingly as they used to be.
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
A couple of points as this single survey by a company no one has ever heard of is often quoted as the definitive source on who really pays.
First, it is 8 years old and a lot has changed in gaming and the world since then, mobile gaming's rise to prominence being a major shift in the model.
Second, the percentages of payers are likely vastly skewed downward by a single comment at the top of the survey,
“Swrve research finds ... two-thirds of people stop playing after one day"
so if they are removed from the total the percentage of gamers actually playing and paying is probably much higher.
Sure, the study is from 2014, but anything is better than guessing, no? While the platforms have evolved over the 8 years, we're talking about human psychology here, not about the technology that exploits it - that's just a tool. I don't see much reason for the broad spending patterns in gaming to change over 8 years just because mobile now has a much stronger position - the share of the whales and their spending habits ought to remain roughly the same.
From my own perspective, I don't really see much change in how the games target their monetisation strategies, if anything, they gear them towards the biggest whales even more than before. Take the recently discussed SotA; or Star Citizen's $40k Legatus package; the NFT crazies out there willing to spend thousands and more on any rubbish; and the list goes on.
There are many companies we've never heard of, running in the background of various businesses, and providing services to business clients. Swrve is one of them. Even if you haven't heard of it, a quick Google search will reveal a bit more and might lead you to this:
"With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Presumably, based on their own research for their gaming business clients. So if anything, the share of the biggest whales in overall spending has grown fairly significantly over those 8 years...
Depends if you think the CandyCrush market is the same as the Pantheon one is. To me, its like making a claim that X% of sports merchandizing revenue comes from player specific jersey sales and applying that to some Esport game where its probably a different environment.
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<lots of good info snipped for brevity> "With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Odd. It seems to me that few, if any, treat that 0.15% of their customers as VIPs. From what I've seen, there just isn't as much customer service as there is cash grabbage. They're just going to try to sell you something else. Nothing about that screams VIP to me. Repeat customer, maybe.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
As always, I would make a value judgement based on the game. If it is worth my time then I'd be willing to pay quite a lot.
Back in the day when MMORPGs could still hold my attention, I pretty much exclusively played them and nothing else (except a bit of couch coop with friends ofc). So, for nearly 7 years, all I paid for gaming was £8.99 a month plus the occasional box price or expansion. Cheapest time in my gaming history for sure, and also the most satisfying!
I guess I would put my upper limit at around £40 per month. But, it had better be damn good for that money!
The same for me. EQ saved me money by keeping my attention riveted from 2001 through 2003. I missed a lot of games released during that period.
I have since purchased and played many of those games I missed during that time
EQ didnt save me money...Spent quite a bit just to play...In fact, because I was paying for EQ I didnt look at games like Asheron's Call because I didnt want multiple subs. Back then. we paid for subs because there was no other option. If AC or some of the other titles back then had cheaper or free options, then I would have tried them...but they didn't...It was either pay for the box, subs, and expansions or dont play our game.
and the best part!
After you paid for the Box $50 The Expansion $50 and a years Sub, $180
If you want to log in and play on your 366th day.. you need to pay $15 more for that next month.
Hmm, just like my cell phone bill, after a year of paying them a fortune if I stop paying my phone stops working, even if I own the cell phone...weird.
You're not required to subscribe to a mobile plan to use a cell phone. You can buy them and then charge time and data to it.
Who do you pay for that time and data? It may not be a "subscription", but then you get to count every phone call and video/text message/e-mail.
Point is, for me, you may "own" the cell phone, but without "paying for service", your phone is just an expensive paper weight
The old sub MMORPGs still had your character data so when you wanted to play again, just pay access and play again.
It's this way with all subscriptions, from magazines to cable/satellite to streaming. Why do people find it so hard to "believe?"
Subscriptions have been around a lot longer than video games and was a way for companies and businesses to insure a steady income. If the service was good, a customer kept the subscription up. If they became dissatisfied, they stopped.
Greed is why they stopped because it put a "cap" on the income stream. I can't fault the games as that's just good business practice
[edit]
PS: As Theocritus pointed out, those subs kept me from looking at other MMORPGs at the time. I was "done" with EQ when I started looking around again and found City of Heroes that grabbed my attention back.
Not exactly.
With phones, and I realize what I am about to say might be hair splitting, but, even if my service is off I can still use my phone to connect to the house WiFi, and use it as a mini tablet while in the bathroom or whatever, I can also use some apps, and I realize how limited this might be, but I can use the offline apps, like the calculator, and even take pictures, and if need be make a 911 call, so, a cell phone, even if deactivated, is still a little better than just a paperweight.
Just saying on that one.
Now with things like Subscription to a Publication, especially one still in print, I am paying for that publication, but I get to keep what I have received even if I cancel at a later date, they don't come to my house and take away my Dragon Magazines, if I stopped my sub to them.
Now, with things like TV, there is still public TV/Antenna TV, that you can access for free, you only really need to pay for what is considered a premium service.
Now if we get down to MMO's
Personally, this is why I like the Turbine Model, it may be F2P, but overall, it's a B2P game, but you can either buy it parts, or access the whole thing for a monthly sub. In all cases, you always have access (albeit limited) to your characters, which I think is the largest attraction to the F2P model, it's not that it is free, it's just that I can always log in and check out my toon, without needing to pay a fee to do so.
I firmly believe that is why F2P games have thrived far beyond any sub system, it's not the money, but it is the idea that players can return, and they have shown that in games were there is no paywall to return, players often do return.
In case you were wondering, this is also why a lot of those F2P MMO's run limited time events, these events get players to come back.
Expansions, Updates, and the like, also have this effect.
Hence games doing things like "Story Missions" or whatever, Case in point, WoW releasing some of the Expansion content in time gated blocks, this gets players to keep coming back for that.
Now if you look at the numbers that were tossed out in this topic about who is paying into the game, ideally, if you look at those numbers, something to note, is that the longer a player has been with the game, the higher the chance they have of paying into the game.
As such, the more a game company can get a player to keep playing, or keep coming back, the bigger the chance that player will spend money.
So it's not really about the sub, or fairness, as lets be real, MMO's are not far, they never have been, never will be.
And it's not just about the money either, case in point, most F2P MMO's make far less per player then they would have made with a sub.
The thing is, F2P, is simply more attractive to gamers, and that 2.2% that pay into it, often just like the game they are playing.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
<lots of good info snipped for brevity> "With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Odd. It seems to me that few, if any, treat that 0.15% of their customers as VIPs. From what I've seen, there just isn't as much customer service as there is cash grabbage. They're just going to try to sell you something else. Nothing about that screams VIP to me. Repeat customer, maybe.
Actually, no, they do treat those "whales" really, really, well. They just have no need to publicize that they have special ways that they keep in contact.
You think that a company does not know every player that spends past a certain amount on their game? You bet they will have personal contact with those players and do everything that they possibly can, to make them stay happy and playing for as long as possible.
Giving those whales heads up on game changes, or a few digital pixels is such a small thing for those that spend hundreds or thousands on games.
Just where would be the sense of either of those whales, or devs that depend on them, to talk about this?
As always, I would make a value judgement based on the game. If it is worth my time then I'd be willing to pay quite a lot.
Back in the day when MMORPGs could still hold my attention, I pretty much exclusively played them and nothing else (except a bit of couch coop with friends ofc). So, for nearly 7 years, all I paid for gaming was £8.99 a month plus the occasional box price or expansion. Cheapest time in my gaming history for sure, and also the most satisfying!
I guess I would put my upper limit at around £40 per month. But, it had better be damn good for that money!
The same for me. EQ saved me money by keeping my attention riveted from 2001 through 2003. I missed a lot of games released during that period.
I have since purchased and played many of those games I missed during that time
EQ didnt save me money...Spent quite a bit just to play...In fact, because I was paying for EQ I didnt look at games like Asheron's Call because I didnt want multiple subs. Back then. we paid for subs because there was no other option. If AC or some of the other titles back then had cheaper or free options, then I would have tried them...but they didn't...It was either pay for the box, subs, and expansions or dont play our game.
and the best part!
After you paid for the Box $50 The Expansion $50 and a years Sub, $180
If you want to log in and play on your 366th day.. you need to pay $15 more for that next month.
Hmm, just like my cell phone bill, after a year of paying them a fortune if I stop paying my phone stops working, even if I own the cell phone...weird.
You're not required to subscribe to a mobile plan to use a cell phone. You can buy them and then charge time and data to it.
Who do you pay for that time and data? It may not be a "subscription", but then you get to count every phone call and video/text message/e-mail.
Point is, for me, you may "own" the cell phone, but without "paying for service", your phone is just an expensive paper weight
The old sub MMORPGs still had your character data so when you wanted to play again, just pay access and play again.
It's this way with all subscriptions, from magazines to cable/satellite to streaming. Why do people find it so hard to "believe?"
Subscriptions have been around a lot longer than video games and was a way for companies and businesses to insure a steady income. If the service was good, a customer kept the subscription up. If they became dissatisfied, they stopped.
Greed is why they stopped because it put a "cap" on the income stream. I can't fault the games as that's just good business practice
[edit]
PS: As Theocritus pointed out, those subs kept me from looking at other MMORPGs at the time. I was "done" with EQ when I started looking around again and found City of Heroes that grabbed my attention back.
In this case you would buy time and data allotments just like other rechargeable services. You might need to track your usage or buy bigger allotments, but most people just refill things when they get low.
Do you have a gasoline subscription? Do you calculate how many trips you can make on a refill or do you just visit the filling station when your vehicle gets low?
When you buy a gallon of milk do you estimate how many glasses you're going to use and then track that?
See where I'm going?
Before video game subscriptions were a thing we used to just pay for software and be done with it. If expansions or upgrades were offered then people could buy those or not.
I'd say greed started entering into the equation when game companies realized they could rent players access to software "for one low fee".
The insane grind in my first MMORPG is what kept me from playing others for a while, not the subscription. I didn't have time to play another game and keep up with my guild and enemy guilds to play other games let alone MMORPGs.
It was very odd at first....We used to go to Comp USA or some other electronics store and buy our games...it was a one time fee and we owned the game...Then came MMORPGs......All of a sudden we were being asked to not only pay that one time fee, but also to pay another $15 a month and whatever expansions the game came up with also....
.IT also felt like "Did they put as much in that expansion as they could have, or are they holding out for another charge later on down the line?" I remember some of the expansions in EQ it didnt feel like we got much at all.....I know many people feel the subs were worth it, but to me it felt like gouging a little bit.....I probably paid more for Everquest than I have for all single player games I have ever owned.
Sure, the study is from 2014, but anything is better than guessing, no? While the platforms have evolved over the 8 years, we're talking about human psychology here, not about the technology that exploits it - that's just a tool. I don't see much reason for the broad spending patterns in gaming to change over 8 years just because mobile now has a much stronger position - the share of the whales and their spending habits ought to remain roughly the same.
From my own perspective, I don't really see much change in how the games target their monetisation strategies, if anything, they gear them towards the biggest whales even more than before. Take the recently discussed SotA; or Star Citizen's $40k Legatus package; the NFT crazies out there willing to spend thousands and more on any rubbish; and the list goes on.
There are many companies we've never heard of, running in the background of various businesses, and providing services to business clients. Swrve is one of them. Even if you haven't heard of it, a quick Google search will reveal a bit more and might lead you to this:
"With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Presumably, based on their own research for their gaming business clients. So if anything, the share of the biggest whales in overall spending has grown fairly significantly over those 8 years...
I can believe this, although I think the "dolphins" are spending more, the whales could be too. It fact spending by dolphins might be encouraging whales to spend more. Get that better outfit, buy those resources to upgrade that weapon, refit that house to keep far ahead of the Jones's.
What do these whales do? Is it just to lord over others? Is that the primary reason they spend so much? It sounds ridiculously shallow and dumb if that is the reason. Surely they can find better ways to show off.
After some thought that transpired as I wrote the above paragraph I suppose it is the captive audience since players in the game have to see you so you can display your wealth more extravagantly in a game than in real life. Real life has real life robbers too.
I think subscriptions used to be the equalizer so once you start allowing the whales to lord over, that quickly went out the window. How do you not cater to the whales? As a game company who isn't interested in the longevity of their game where normal players are concerned than what do you do to make subscriptions an option that is attractive enough.
What do these whales do? Is it just to lord over others? Is that the primary reason they spend so much? It sounds ridiculously shallow and dumb if that is the reason. Surely they can find better ways to show off.
After some thought that transpired as I wrote the above paragraph I suppose it is the captive audience since players in the game have to see you so you can display your wealth more extravagantly in a game than in real life. Real life has real life robbers too.
I think subscriptions used to be the equalizer so once you start allowing the whales to lord over, that quickly went out the window. How do you not cater to the whales? As a game company who isn't interested in the longevity of their game where normal players are concerned than what do you do to make subscriptions an option that is attractive enough.
I don't see it happening.
If you remove all P2W elements from a MMO it is difficult to see how you would get whales. As to lording it over, some of them are buying the best gear (typically through upgrading) for PvP or even just raids. Do they see that as lording, maybe? In a game where you buy being a "king" and have nobles under you then I see that being far more likely.
ESO pulled it of with just a sub and dlc costs, so it can be attractive, maybe if a new Star Trek or Harry Potter came out as a proper MMO it could be done again. Otherwise I can't see it happening.
As always, I would make a value judgement based on the game. If it is worth my time then I'd be willing to pay quite a lot.
Back in the day when MMORPGs could still hold my attention, I pretty much exclusively played them and nothing else (except a bit of couch coop with friends ofc). So, for nearly 7 years, all I paid for gaming was £8.99 a month plus the occasional box price or expansion. Cheapest time in my gaming history for sure, and also the most satisfying!
I guess I would put my upper limit at around £40 per month. But, it had better be damn good for that money!
The same for me. EQ saved me money by keeping my attention riveted from 2001 through 2003. I missed a lot of games released during that period.
I have since purchased and played many of those games I missed during that time
EQ didnt save me money...Spent quite a bit just to play...In fact, because I was paying for EQ I didnt look at games like Asheron's Call because I didnt want multiple subs. Back then. we paid for subs because there was no other option. If AC or some of the other titles back then had cheaper or free options, then I would have tried them...but they didn't...It was either pay for the box, subs, and expansions or dont play our game.
and the best part!
After you paid for the Box $50 The Expansion $50 and a years Sub, $180
If you want to log in and play on your 366th day.. you need to pay $15 more for that next month.
Hmm, just like my cell phone bill, after a year of paying them a fortune if I stop paying my phone stops working, even if I own the cell phone...weird.
You're not required to subscribe to a mobile plan to use a cell phone. You can buy them and then charge time and data to it.
Who do you pay for that time and data? It may not be a "subscription", but then you get to count every phone call and video/text message/e-mail.
Point is, for me, you may "own" the cell phone, but without "paying for service", your phone is just an expensive paper weight
The old sub MMORPGs still had your character data so when you wanted to play again, just pay access and play again.
It's this way with all subscriptions, from magazines to cable/satellite to streaming. Why do people find it so hard to "believe?"
Subscriptions have been around a lot longer than video games and was a way for companies and businesses to insure a steady income. If the service was good, a customer kept the subscription up. If they became dissatisfied, they stopped.
Greed is why they stopped because it put a "cap" on the income stream. I can't fault the games as that's just good business practice
[edit]
PS: As Theocritus pointed out, those subs kept me from looking at other MMORPGs at the time. I was "done" with EQ when I started looking around again and found City of Heroes that grabbed my attention back.
In this case you would buy time and data allotments just like other rechargeable services. You might need to track your usage or buy bigger allotments, but most people just refill things when they get low.
Do you have a gasoline subscription? Do you calculate how many trips you can make on a refill or do you just visit the filling station when your vehicle gets low?
When you buy a gallon of milk do you estimate how many glasses you're going to use and then track that?
See where I'm going?
Before video game subscriptions were a thing we used to just pay for software and be done with it. If expansions or upgrades were offered then people could buy those or not.
I'd say greed started entering into the equation when game companies realized they could rent players access to software "for one low fee".
The insane grind in my first MMORPG is what kept me from playing others for a while, not the subscription. I didn't have time to play another game and keep up with my guild and enemy guilds to play other games let alone MMORPGs.
The relationship is inherently adversarial, but that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge when one scheme is worse than another.
Microtransactions are worse than subs for consumers. I would say that's my opinion, but it really isn't. How many subs have to be paid in store currency conversions that leave a balance of currency uselessly sitting in the store each month? How many games include a loot box sub? How many crowdfunding games have offered a kingdom/land/castle/what have you for a sub?
Nobody said it was perfect. But it was better than this shit for gamers.
<lots of good info snipped for brevity> "With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Odd. It seems to me that few, if any, treat that 0.15% of their customers as VIPs. From what I've seen, there just isn't as much customer service as there is cash grabbage. They're just going to try to sell you something else. Nothing about that screams VIP to me. Repeat customer, maybe.
Actually, no, they do treat those "whales" really, really, well. They just have no need to publicize that they have special ways that they keep in contact.
You think that a company does not know every player that spends past a certain amount on their game? You bet they will have personal contact with those players and do everything that they possibly can, to make them stay happy and playing for as long as possible.
Giving those whales heads up on game changes, or a few digital pixels is such a small thing for those that spend hundreds or thousands on games.
Just where would be the sense of either of those whales, or devs that depend on them, to talk about this?
I can't answer to the whale's silence, but the companies should include this information if they wish to claim 'transparency', as many claim. VIP, to me, includes a lot of off-the-books benefits, mostly provided for gratis. Even our lame punching bag, CoE, offered dinners with the developers for a certain tier of 'contribution'. So, it was selling a known service for a known price, not a VIP experience.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Why people have such a pisser about an item shop, I will not grasp,
Because it's supposed to be a game.. and going outside the game to buy things with real money goes very much against that concept. Why people cannot understand that, I will not grasp. Imagine playing Monopoly but buying Houses for $5 a pop... or an extra dice roll for $2... or hell why not just be able to buy the properties for cash?
But you do you. Knock yourself out buying your pixel trinkets to your hearts content. I do not want cash shop games to die, I just want a few alternates for people that think Cash Shops suck.
My biggest "gripe" with cash shops was: I want to play the same game as everyone else. To each their own, right
No, you want everyone else to play the same game as you, there is a difference.
Not really. I don't recall starting a movement to "make anyone do anything." I decided on how and what I wanted play and went from there
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, you'd better believe it! The answer to your first question is 98%, apparently. The answer to your last sentence: 46% of the revenue comes from 0.22% of players. The very definition of whales in gaming.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My biggest "gripe" with cash shops was: I want to play the same game as everyone else. To each their own, right
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But you're right that, when these games were sub only, it was a much more straightforward assessment for consumers. Either paying for access was worth it, or it wasn't. No confusing that by adding items of convenience in the cash shop ("This is tedious, but maybe if I bought that Double Skill Points Scroll..."), no confusing the price by having you purchase "store currency" that never seemed to come in the same amount as anything you want to purchase, meaning you always leave a balance over to encourage you to add more currency and buy something else that will inevitably leave you with a small balance once again.
The more straightforward situation is generally going to be the most consumer-friendly, because consumers don't have dedicated teams of individuals to crunch numbers and study marketing psychology for them. These studios/publishers do, and they use them aggressively.
First, it is 8 years old and a lot has changed in gaming and the world since then, mobile gaming's rise to prominence being a major shift in the model.
Second, the percentages of payers are likely vastly skewed downward by a single comment at the top of the survey,
“Swrve research finds ...
two-thirds of people stop playing after one day"so if they are removed from the total the percentage of gamers actually playing and paying is probably much higher.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Last I heard the 1-2% whales were like 90+% of the f2p income...We get different numbers on this all the time, probably depending on who is doing the research and what their angle is. Some of these whales spend thousands, which is just mind boggling to me.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Sure, the study is from 2014, but anything is better than guessing, no? While the platforms have evolved over the 8 years, we're talking about human psychology here, not about the technology that exploits it - that's just a tool. I don't see much reason for the broad spending patterns in gaming to change over 8 years just because mobile now has a much stronger position - the share of the whales and their spending habits ought to remain roughly the same.
From my own perspective, I don't really see much change in how the games target their monetisation strategies, if anything, they gear them towards the biggest whales even more than before. Take the recently discussed SotA; or Star Citizen's $40k Legatus package; the NFT crazies out there willing to spend thousands and more on any rubbish; and the list goes on.
There are many companies we've never heard of, running in the background of various businesses, and providing services to business clients. Swrve is one of them. Even if you haven't heard of it, a quick Google search will reveal a bit more and might lead you to this:
"With 60% of all the money games companies earn coming from just 0.15% of their players, it’s important that games treat that cohort as VIPs."
Presumably, based on their own research for their gaming business clients. So if anything, the share of the biggest whales in overall spending has grown fairly significantly over those 8 years...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
With phones, and I realize what I am about to say might be hair splitting, but, even if my service is off I can still use my phone to connect to the house WiFi, and use it as a mini tablet while in the bathroom or whatever, I can also use some apps, and I realize how limited this might be, but I can use the offline apps, like the calculator, and even take pictures, and if need be make a 911 call, so, a cell phone, even if deactivated, is still a little better than just a paperweight.
Just saying on that one.
Now with things like Subscription to a Publication, especially one still in print, I am paying for that publication, but I get to keep what I have received even if I cancel at a later date, they don't come to my house and take away my Dragon Magazines, if I stopped my sub to them.
Now, with things like TV, there is still public TV/Antenna TV, that you can access for free, you only really need to pay for what is considered a premium service.
Now if we get down to MMO's
Personally, this is why I like the Turbine Model, it may be F2P, but overall, it's a B2P game, but you can either buy it parts, or access the whole thing for a monthly sub. In all cases, you always have access (albeit limited) to your characters, which I think is the largest attraction to the F2P model, it's not that it is free, it's just that I can always log in and check out my toon, without needing to pay a fee to do so.
I firmly believe that is why F2P games have thrived far beyond any sub system, it's not the money, but it is the idea that players can return, and they have shown that in games were there is no paywall to return, players often do return.
In case you were wondering, this is also why a lot of those F2P MMO's run limited time events, these events get players to come back.
Expansions, Updates, and the like, also have this effect.
Hence games doing things like "Story Missions" or whatever, Case in point, WoW releasing some of the Expansion content in time gated blocks, this gets players to keep coming back for that.
Now if you look at the numbers that were tossed out in this topic about who is paying into the game, ideally, if you look at those numbers, something to note, is that the longer a player has been with the game, the higher the chance they have of paying into the game.
As such, the more a game company can get a player to keep playing, or keep coming back, the bigger the chance that player will spend money.
So it's not really about the sub, or fairness, as lets be real, MMO's are not far, they never have been, never will be.
And it's not just about the money either, case in point, most F2P MMO's make far less per player then they would have made with a sub.
The thing is, F2P, is simply more attractive to gamers, and that 2.2% that pay into it, often just like the game they are playing.
You think that a company does not know every player that spends past a certain amount on their game? You bet they will have personal contact with those players and do everything that they possibly can, to make them stay happy and playing for as long as possible.
Giving those whales heads up on game changes, or a few digital pixels is such a small thing for those that spend hundreds or thousands on games.
Just where would be the sense of either of those whales, or devs that depend on them, to talk about this?
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
After some thought that transpired as I wrote the above paragraph I suppose it is the captive audience since players in the game have to see you so you can display your wealth more extravagantly in a game than in real life. Real life has real life robbers too.
I think subscriptions used to be the equalizer so once you start allowing the whales to lord over, that quickly went out the window. How do you not cater to the whales? As a game company who isn't interested in the longevity of their game where normal players are concerned than what do you do to make subscriptions an option that is attractive enough.
I don't see it happening.
ESO pulled it of with just a sub and dlc costs, so it can be attractive, maybe if a new Star Trek or Harry Potter came out as a proper MMO it could be done again. Otherwise I can't see it happening.
Microtransactions are worse than subs for consumers. I would say that's my opinion, but it really isn't. How many subs have to be paid in store currency conversions that leave a balance of currency uselessly sitting in the store each month? How many games include a loot box sub? How many crowdfunding games have offered a kingdom/land/castle/what have you for a sub?
Nobody said it was perfect. But it was better than this shit for gamers.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Not really. I don't recall starting a movement to "make anyone do anything." I decided on how and what I wanted play and went from there
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR