I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Imagine the furor in the industry if a truly great came along! I'm pretty sure that all the streamers that are paid currently would be calling the new game crap, too. Role reversal may be the only kind of role playing they indulge in.
(FYI -- this is my 5000th comment, with 79 discussions and 5089 points.)
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Of course, that's why the early games in the genre were huge hits. When you can only play UO, UO sells well. When you're buying in the prison canteen, everything they've got is precious, because that's all you can get.
Games-as-Business folks know their business, they just don't always understand the intricacies of gaming. It will all work if you have realistic assumptions about costs versus the money you will bring in, in your niche.
There's a ton of niches, thus your blanket assumptions have a lot of holes.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Imagine the furor in the industry if a truly great came along! I'm pretty sure that all the streamers that are paid currently would be calling the new game crap, too. Role reversal may be the only kind of role playing they indulge in.
(FYI -- this is my 5000th comment, with 79 discussions and 5089 points.)
Pfft, 5K posts, I've got more LOL's than that noob. . I didn't even notice I had crossed 40K some day last week.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You might want to check out Embers Adrift, supposedly similar old school challenge and is further along in it's development than Pantheon.
I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Imagine the furor in the industry if a truly great came along! I'm pretty sure that all the streamers that are paid currently would be calling the new game crap, too. Role reversal may be the only kind of role playing they indulge in.
(FYI -- this is my 5000th comment, with 79 discussions and 5089 points.)
Pfft, 5K posts, I've got more LOL's than that noob. . I didn't even notice I had crossed 40K some day last week.
Really miss Captain LOL some days.
Congrats on the milestone...keep coming back.
There you go, in memory of his stalwart defence of the right of every poster to have a lol on every post.
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You don't "die a lot" in Elden Ring if you are good, though. A lot of videos around show that.
Why yes, I'm sure.
Once you have figured out what to do or can compensate any shortages of such knowledge with sufficient gear instead. Also once you know what areas to avoid or be careful when you cross
them, because theres plenty of bosses which attack you on their own
initiative as well.
Either way before that point - you die a lot. Which many other videos of n00bs show. Or you have to watch a lot of tutorials in which people spoil you the way one can beat a certain boss.
I'm perfectly fine with people liking this, but its not really my kind of game. I prefer deaths to be less frequent and not a constant occurence.
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You don't "die a lot" in Elden Ring if you are good, though. A lot of videos around show that.
Why yes, I'm sure.
Once you have figured out what to do or can compensate any shortages of such knowledge with sufficient gear instead. Also once you know what areas to avoid or be careful when you cross
them, because theres plenty of bosses which attack you on their own
initiative as well.
Either way before that point - you die a lot. Which many other videos of n00bs show. Or you have to watch a lot of tutorials in which people spoil you the way one can beat a certain boss.
I'm perfectly fine with people liking this, but its not really my kind of game. I prefer deaths to be less frequent and not a constant occurence.
I don't play Elden Ring either for the same reasons than you, but there are definitely people out there who are much better than both you and me at those "soul" style games.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You don't "die a lot" in Elden Ring if you are good, though. A lot of videos around show that.
Why yes, I'm sure.
Once you have figured out what to do or can compensate any shortages of such knowledge with sufficient gear instead. Also once you know what areas to avoid or be careful when you cross
them, because theres plenty of bosses which attack you on their own
initiative as well.
Either way before that point - you die a lot. Which many other videos of n00bs show. Or you have to watch a lot of tutorials in which people spoil you the way one can beat a certain boss.
I'm perfectly fine with people liking this, but its not really my kind of game. I prefer deaths to be less frequent and not a constant occurence.
I don't play Elden Ring either for the same reasons than you, but there are definitely people out there who are much better than both you and me at those "soul" style games.
It's all about being good at pattern recognition, which I suck at...so not for me I'm sure.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You don't "die a lot" in Elden Ring if you are good, though. A lot of videos around show that.
Why yes, I'm sure.
Once you have figured out what to do or can compensate any shortages of such knowledge with sufficient gear instead. Also once you know what areas to avoid or be careful when you cross
them, because theres plenty of bosses which attack you on their own
initiative as well.
Either way before that point - you die a lot. Which many other videos of n00bs show. Or you have to watch a lot of tutorials in which people spoil you the way one can beat a certain boss.
I'm perfectly fine with people liking this, but its not really my kind of game. I prefer deaths to be less frequent and not a constant occurence.
I don't play Elden Ring either for the same reasons than you, but there are definitely people out there who are much better than both you and me at those "soul" style games.
It's all about being good at pattern recognition, which I suck at...so not for me I'm sure.
You know, y'all could just level up mmorpg style which allows you greater chance to be successful.
As I've mentioned before, I'm not great at using a controller though I'm "better" than before. I decided to level up quite a bit in Dark Souls and lo and behold I was able to take out some bosses 1st try.
That's the difficulty setting in these games. The higher the level the more damage you dish out and can take.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
We have a cross of EverQuest and Vanguard in development ? Its called Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
And yes a game has to challenge you to be fun.
If its not challenging enough, then its boring.
If its too challenging and you cannot beat it, its frustrating.
Elden RIng for example has very little appeal to me. Its very twitch based and you are supposed to die a lot. Twitch based bores me and dying a lot is not something that makes me like a game either.
But apparently some people love that A LOT. Good for them.
You don't "die a lot" in Elden Ring if you are good, though. A lot of videos around show that.
Tbh, after playing for 100 hours, I must admit Elden Ring has a lot of BS in it. It has a lot of things to trick you which you really react to without dying first. And some encounters are absolute trash (Godskin Duo). Every boss is a hyper aggressive beast with input reading and delayed attacks to throw you off. About half the time they are too big for the camera so you can't even see when they're about to attack. Massive health pools make some of the fights really drag.
This topic has nothing to do with Elden Ring or Dark souls or any over the top difficult game. The reasion I have very little respect for the power posters is you represent AN EXREAMILY BAD EXAMPLE to people here looking for answers on why mmorpgs are in such a bad state.
You would think ten, fifteen twenty years here as posters you would have some wisdom or insite of the reasion for its decline of product.
First and foremost mmorpgs are not a working together to reach a common goal, with the difficulty ramped up to have people needing to work together. Instead you call this FORCED GROUPING and want no part of it:
**Well, if so you don't want an mmorpg, you want a simple social event, with others on your screen..... TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, YOU DON'T WANT AN MMORPG !
Hell, all if you want a childlike easy game where any indication of difficulty goes directly into Elden Ring difficulty.
Your all delusional, and don't have a clue. I'm talking about the same power posters, here...... Same wrong people that had always been here, masquerading as the experts.
I argue with all if you and still have my head up and stand tall, because you by far don't represent anything, but laud mouth power posters.
" I'll say that again, You don't represent anything"
True mmrpg players abended this site long time ago.
Edit: No you don't get a free ticket if you started with UO or EQ1.... why? because you now sticking up for this new crap. Thousands, if not millions started off just like you AND ARE GONE !
I don't see it that way Delete, we are outriders from the baulk of players, but as I said I am not sure they are gamers any more.
Are there enough of us who want a game that favours more grouping and difficulty and will we ever see one? I think there are enough of us, but not for a AAA MMORPG unless it was also a massive IP. Even then I see this only being done in baby steps, you can't just expect players to dive in to an all grouping MMO for example. It would have to be solo at beginning level with more and more group play as you leveled. That could get the bums on seats as it were.
FF shows you can have a game that features more grouping and still be a big success, but there are other ways we can approach this. What is Co-op, it is playing in a group, what is team FPS, it is playing in a group, what were scenarios in WHO, playing in a group. So there are examples across gaming and in MMO's of doing group play, if you could bring that experience into MMOs it might be a way forward. What about putting all the players in the same Discord channel into the same group as they log in? There needs to be ways of leading them by the hand into grouping.
Making a game for a type of player won't retain people if it doesn't do something exceptionally well.
UO and SWG allowed for different style of players like crafters, EQ gave an experience for people wishing to play with others, DaoC did RvR, WoW brought a lot of good ideas into the same game, Eve online is the best space MMO etc.
When you got hundreds of games its not about catering to a specific type of player like casual, hardcore, carebear or something else, its about the quality of the game.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I just looked up a definition of care bear "a nice person who is against violence and disputes".
No one at all wants that !
Everyone Wants hard games, much harder than any crap we've been handed in the past 15 years, especially in an mmorpg.
I've been fighting all of you for years now, because your all under the delusion that this is what is wanted all because developers THINK THEY KNOW BETTER.
It's a delusion by developer that think this attract the largest crowed......Well their all wrong, and to prove it "look at us, we have nothing but crap". Then what happens ?........ you all beleave it !
We need a cross between EQ1, and Vanguard!!..... But Keep Sony, Daybreak games, Visionary Realms out of it because they suck, if you think about it, none of them can program games. (they were the first)
Developers don't know crap, so stop following their lead !
Yeah, that is why full loot pvp games always do better than PvE-focused games. As usual, you throw some clickbait out there, make ridiculous blanket statements like you somehow speak for the entire gaming community and all you do is end up sounding like an ignorant ass.
Game Developers know what sells, which is why the ONLY indy game dev studio that has done better than an established company is CIG. Love them or hate them they make money (I do not want to debate their game here, I know I know).
Developers do know what they are doing Far more than you do, as evidenced by your non-sensical rants) the issue is the focus went from making fun games for players to creating money-making machines where the focus is on business and not the art.
Wrong, If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Imagine the furor in the industry if a truly great came along! I'm pretty sure that all the streamers that are paid currently would be calling the new game crap, too. Role reversal may be the only kind of role playing they indulge in.
(FYI -- this is my 5000th comment, with 79 discussions and 5089 points.)
Pfft, 5K posts, I've got more LOL's than that noob. . I didn't even notice I had crossed 40K some day last week.
Really miss Captain LOL some days.
Congrats on the milestone...keep coming back.
Kyleran must some kind of special case. Usually this "posting" therapy works.
He doesn't realize that this discussion board is all bots, and nobody is really reading anything he writes. It's all part of the therapy, making him believe that other people exist, and care.
This topic has nothing to do with Elden Ring or Dark souls or any over the top difficult game. The reasion I have very little respect for the power posters is you represent AN EXREAMILY BAD EXAMPLE to people here looking for answers on why mmorpgs are in such a bad state.
You would think ten, fifteen twenty years here as posters you would have some wisdom or insite of the reasion for its decline of product.
First and foremost mmorpgs are not a working together to reach a common goal, with the difficulty ramped up to have people needing to work together. Instead you call this FORCED GROUPING and want no part of it:
**Well, if so you don't want an mmorpg, you want a simple social event, with others on your screen..... TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, YOU DON'T WANT AN MMORPG !
Hell, all if you want a childlike easy game where any indication of difficulty goes directly into Elden Ring difficulty.
Your all delusional, and don't have a clue. I'm talking about the same power posters, here...... Same wrong people that had always been here, masquerading as the experts.
I argue with all if you and still have my head up and stand tall, because you by far don't represent anything, but laud mouth power posters.
" I'll say that again, You don't represent anything"
True mmrpg players abended this site long time ago.
Edit: No you don't get a free ticket if you started with UO or EQ1.... why? because you now sticking up for this new crap. Thousands, if not millions started off just like you AND ARE GONE !
Gotta love the irony of YOU of all people calling other people out for being bad examples.
As usual Delete, you are incapable of taking your own advice...you are absolutely not representing anything. You are not representing me or any other poster. You are not speaking for anyone but yourself. You are not leading anyone towards greener pastures. You are not opening anyone's eyes. You are not a knight in shining armor to save the state of the MMORPG. You are not a leader. You are not taken seriously. You are no better than any of us other randos on the internet.
You are a motherfudgecicling level 1 peasant that perishes instantly from the rabid squirrel in the starter area.
This topic has nothing to do with Elden Ring or Dark souls or any over the top difficult game. The reasion I have very little respect for the power posters is you represent AN EXREAMILY BAD EXAMPLE to people here looking for answers on why mmorpgs are in such a bad state.
You would think ten, fifteen twenty years here as posters you would have some wisdom or insite of the reasion for its decline of product.
First and foremost mmorpgs are not a working together to reach a common goal, with the difficulty ramped up to have people needing to work together. Instead you call this FORCED GROUPING and want no part of it:
**Well, if so you don't want an mmorpg, you want a simple social event, with others on your screen..... TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, YOU DON'T WANT AN MMORPG !
Hell, all if you want a childlike easy game where any indication of difficulty goes directly into Elden Ring difficulty.
Your all delusional, and don't have a clue. I'm talking about the same power posters, here...... Same wrong people that had always been here, masquerading as the experts.
I argue with all if you and still have my head up and stand tall, because you by far don't represent anything, but laud mouth power posters.
" I'll say that again, You don't represent anything"
True mmrpg players abended this site long time ago.
Edit: No you don't get a free ticket if you started with UO or EQ1.... why? because you now sticking up for this new crap. Thousands, if not millions started off just like you AND ARE GONE !
Gotta love the irony of YOU of all people calling other people out for being bad examples.
As usual Delete, you are incapable of taking your own advice...you are absolutely not representing anything. You are not representing me or any other poster. You are not speaking for anyone but yourself. You are not leading anyone towards greener pastures. You are not opening anyone's eyes. You are not a knight in shining armor to save the state of the MMORPG. You are not a leader. You are not taken seriously. You are no better than any of us other randos on the internet.
You are a motherfudgecicling level 1 peasant that perishes instantly from the rabid squirrel in the starter area.
Hey, that's probably overstating. I definitely think he makes it past the squirrel, and bites it against the 'kill ten rats' quest.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
It's easy to make any RPG hard. Just don't equip any weapons, don't wear any armor, and don't use any spells.
If that's not hard enough, then play using only your left hand.
And play solo.
I make gaming hard by being drunk the entire time.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It's easy to make any RPG hard. Just don't equip any weapons, don't wear any armor, and don't use any spells.
If that's not hard enough, then play using only your left hand.
And play solo.
I make gaming hard by being drunk the entire time.
So does Delete apparently, according to his last post...
Full Delete mode again, with the god syndrome, the mass insults, and the superiority complex of the guy who considers Vanilla WoW as the apogee of MMORPG difficulty.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
When you have care bear friends some teasing is alright but I value them for what they are; we can't do without our care bears, the world would be a darker place. The fact games like to throw us all in together and expect us all to love every element of game design is not a care bear's or hardcore's fault.
I don't see it that way Delete, we are outriders from the baulk of players, but as I said I am not sure they are gamers any more.
Are there enough of us who want a game that favours more grouping and difficulty and will we ever see one? I think there are enough of us, but not for a AAA MMORPG unless it was also a massive IP. Even then I see this only being done in baby steps, you can't just expect players to dive in to an all grouping MMO for example. It would have to be solo at beginning level with more and more group play as you leveled. That could get the bums on seats as it were.
FF shows you can have a game that features more grouping and still be a big success, but there are other ways we can approach this. What is Co-op, it is playing in a group, what is team FPS, it is playing in a group, what were scenarios in WHO, playing in a group. So there are examples across gaming and in MMO's of doing group play, if you could bring that experience into MMOs it might be a way forward. What about putting all the players in the same Discord channel into the same group as they log in? There needs to be ways of leading them by the hand into grouping.
Here's a little story of learning difficulty level naturally. I don't think players would need baby steps all over again.
The specifications on my computer were sub par for the release of Vanguard. It didn't matter because the game was broaken for years anyway. Several years in Sony created the the trial island. That's about the time I jumped in.
This trial island was no joke at level one !..... Receiving your first quest you had to run off and kill things in a swamp (details are a little sketchy) the player had to be careful but doable......By level three was a little cave and much harder than the swamp. Infact I got stuck and waited for another player to come by and joined him. We had a grand old time for about 10 minuets by grouping.
Here's an important part. The player had about three abilities and you had to rotate all three flawlessly......This was all less than a half hour into the game !!!!
Am I exaggerating ?.... Very little. Could the trial island be soloed ?..... Yes if the player understood the game.
Conclusion: Intriguing was the best to describe the challenge. VERY EARLY ON the player had to take each new ability's seriously. VERY EARLY ON the player knew he had to make friends. VERY EARLY ON the player knew every step of this game will be a challenge.
All in the first hour !
Important: Games today, abilities mean nothing, healing and tanking mean nothing. friends mean nothing.
So why am I arguing with the entire community ! Their pretending this never happened.....Almost to the point of stupid.
So the problem is with the elitists who like over the top difficulty and also the people who want gaming easier? Which is it? Talk about cognitive dissonance.
Ever heard of Golilocks? Not to hot, not to cold, just right.
If a game is considered easy to hard from 1 to 99. Some games can be a 1 and other extreme can be 99. If the farther you get from your optimum makes you like the game less and less, than games appealing to 1 or 99 would appeal to very few. Add in a bell distribution curve and the percentages would go down even farther in the extremes.
I think he is making a decent point of extremes, where todays top games might be at say 10 or 15 on the difficulty rating. Once a studios figure out how to get to near 50 or appeal to multiple groups of people 1-99 using varying difficulty techniques that's when you will see huge numbers.
WoW was probably in the Goldilocks zone at one point during its peak, but with easier new content has moved away from that.
I don't see it that way Delete, we are outriders from the baulk of players, but as I said I am not sure they are gamers any more.
Are there enough of us who want a game that favours more grouping and difficulty and will we ever see one? I think there are enough of us, but not for a AAA MMORPG unless it was also a massive IP. Even then I see this only being done in baby steps, you can't just expect players to dive in to an all grouping MMO for example. It would have to be solo at beginning level with more and more group play as you leveled. That could get the bums on seats as it were.
FF shows you can have a game that features more grouping and still be a big success, but there are other ways we can approach this. What is Co-op, it is playing in a group, what is team FPS, it is playing in a group, what were scenarios in WHO, playing in a group. So there are examples across gaming and in MMO's of doing group play, if you could bring that experience into MMOs it might be a way forward. What about putting all the players in the same Discord channel into the same group as they log in? There needs to be ways of leading them by the hand into grouping.
Here's a little story of learning difficulty level naturally. I don't think players would need baby steps all over again.
The specifications on my computer were sub par for the release of Vanguard. It didn't matter because the game was broaken for years anyway. Several years in Sony created the the trial island. That's about the time I jumped in.
This trial island was no joke at level one !..... Receiving your first quest you had to run off and kill things in a swamp (details are a little sketchy) the player had to be careful but doable......By level three was a little cave and much harder than the swamp. Infact I got stuck and waited for another player to come by and joined him. We had a grand old time for about 10 minuets by grouping.
Here's an important part. The player had about three abilities and you had to rotate all three flawlessly......This was all less than a half hour into the game !!!!
Am I exaggerating ?.... Very little. Could the trial island be soloed ?..... Yes if the player understood the game.
Conclusion: Intriguing was the best to describe the challenge. VERY EARLY ON the player had to take each new ability's seriously. VERY EARLY ON the player knew he had to make friends. VERY EARLY ON the player knew every step of this game will be a challenge.
All in the first hour !
Important: Games today, abilities mean nothing, healing and tanking mean nothing. friends mean nothing.
So why am I arguing with the entire community ! Their pretending this never happened.....Almost to the point of stupid.
Above is an mmorpg.
What you are not taking into account is the players who have not played old school MMOs who are now the majority of MMO players. They will need baby steps and if we are talking AAA we will need those players. This is especially important if we want a new MMO made like this to make the industry sit up. A very large player base of players playing mostly group content could make them think again about the importance of grouping.
We don't want a one off, we want a genre game changer and that will require a massive success to pull of. If MMOs were just thought of as massive co-op games were you could meet loads of co-op teams to ally with in some regions or fight with in others, that would break the solo mould we have now.
Comments
If the only fruit available are apples. Apples will sell like crazy, they would be selling by the bushels....... Why ?.... Because its the only thing available.
Let that soak in a little, if you still don't understand the point.
That's why crap games sell.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Games-as-Business folks know their business, they just don't always understand the intricacies of gaming. It will all work if you have realistic assumptions about costs versus the money you will bring in, in your niche.
There's a ton of niches, thus your blanket assumptions have a lot of holes.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Really miss Captain LOL some days.
Congrats on the milestone...keep coming back.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thanks, I will check it out.
I don't play Elden Ring either for the same reasons than you, but there are definitely people out there who are much better than both you and me at those "soul" style games.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As I've mentioned before, I'm not great at using a controller though I'm "better" than before. I decided to level up quite a bit in Dark Souls and lo and behold I was able to take out some bosses 1st try.
That's the difficulty setting in these games. The higher the level the more damage you dish out and can take.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You would think ten, fifteen twenty years here as posters you would have some wisdom or insite of the reasion for its decline of product.
First and foremost mmorpgs are not a working together to reach a common goal, with the difficulty ramped up to have people needing to work together. Instead you call this FORCED GROUPING and want no part of it:
**Well, if so you don't want an mmorpg, you want a simple social event, with others on your screen..... TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, YOU DON'T WANT AN MMORPG !
Hell, all if you want a childlike easy game where any indication of difficulty goes directly into Elden Ring difficulty.
Your all delusional, and don't have a clue. I'm talking about the same power posters, here...... Same wrong people that had always been here, masquerading as the experts.
I argue with all if you and still have my head up and stand tall, because you by far don't represent anything, but laud mouth power posters.
" I'll say that again, You don't represent anything"
True mmrpg players abended this site long time ago.
Edit:
No you don't get a free ticket if you started with UO or EQ1.... why? because you now sticking up for this new crap. Thousands, if not millions started off just like you AND ARE GONE !
Are there enough of us who want a game that favours more grouping and difficulty and will we ever see one? I think there are enough of us, but not for a AAA MMORPG unless it was also a massive IP. Even then I see this only being done in baby steps, you can't just expect players to dive in to an all grouping MMO for example. It would have to be solo at beginning level with more and more group play as you leveled. That could get the bums on seats as it were.
FF shows you can have a game that features more grouping and still be a big success, but there are other ways we can approach this. What is Co-op, it is playing in a group, what is team FPS, it is playing in a group, what were scenarios in WHO, playing in a group. So there are examples across gaming and in MMO's of doing group play, if you could bring that experience into MMOs it might be a way forward. What about putting all the players in the same Discord channel into the same group as they log in? There needs to be ways of leading them by the hand into grouping.
UO and SWG allowed for different style of players like crafters, EQ gave an experience for people wishing to play with others, DaoC did RvR, WoW brought a lot of good ideas into the same game, Eve online is the best space MMO etc.
When you got hundreds of games its not about catering to a specific type of player like casual, hardcore, carebear or something else, its about the quality of the game.
But it isn't working!
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
So does Delete apparently, according to his last post...
Full Delete mode again, with the god syndrome, the mass insults, and the superiority complex of the guy who considers Vanilla WoW as the apogee of MMORPG difficulty.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The specifications on my computer were sub par for the release of Vanguard. It didn't matter because the game was broaken for years anyway. Several years in Sony created the the trial island. That's about the time I jumped in.
This trial island was no joke at level one !..... Receiving your first quest you had to run off and kill things in a swamp (details are a little sketchy) the player had to be careful but doable......By level three was a little cave and much harder than the swamp. Infact I got stuck and waited for another player to come by and joined him. We had a grand old time for about 10 minuets by grouping.
Here's an important part. The player had about three abilities and you had to rotate all three flawlessly......This was all less than a half hour into the game !!!!
Am I exaggerating ?.... Very little.
Could the trial island be soloed ?..... Yes if the player understood the game.
Conclusion:
Intriguing was the best to describe the challenge. VERY EARLY ON the player had to take each new ability's seriously. VERY EARLY ON the player knew he had to make friends. VERY EARLY ON the player knew every step of this game will be a challenge.
All in the first hour !
Important:
Games today,
abilities mean nothing,
healing and tanking mean nothing.
friends mean nothing.
So why am I arguing with the entire community !
Their pretending this never happened.....Almost to the point of stupid.
Above is an mmorpg.
If a game is considered easy to hard from 1 to 99. Some games can be a 1 and other extreme can be 99. If the farther you get from your optimum makes you like the game less and less, than games appealing to 1 or 99 would appeal to very few. Add in a bell distribution curve and the percentages would go down even farther in the extremes.
I think he is making a decent point of extremes, where todays top games might be at say 10 or 15 on the difficulty rating. Once a studios figure out how to get to near 50 or appeal to multiple groups of people 1-99 using varying difficulty techniques that's when you will see huge numbers.
WoW was probably in the Goldilocks zone at one point during its peak, but with easier new content has moved away from that.
We don't want a one off, we want a genre game changer and that will require a massive success to pull of. If MMOs were just thought of as massive co-op games were you could meet loads of co-op teams to ally with in some regions or fight with in others, that would break the solo mould we have now.