This P2W is no different than SC selling pixels. If one is bad, why not the other?
I think you'll find most who think one is bad do think the other is bad, too.
Agreed, but selling pixels is not as bad in my book as gambling mechanics which can cost you thousands for potentially no return.
Well both are selling pixels... but in one you know what pixels you will get for your money and the other is a "surprise mechanic'.
Wait, I'm genuinely confused... Based on the track record, which set of pixels includes the surprise mechanic, the lootboxes, or the ships that get reworked into completely different items?
Super Surprise Mechanic?
MMOSSM game?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I honestly don't mind this whole "Predatory" monetization, because if you are stupid and fall for whole "800% more value" label and spend 400$ a day, you deserver losing the money. Also, remember Lost Ark. Not much difference in LA or DI, but yet everyone is eating up on DI. Look, people should eating up LA same way.
Mitch as you mentioned before you only intend to do DI as free to play, this is a rather rich list from someone who is not going to pay.
That said I note "playing - and possibly even paying for", but that takes me on to you ignoring the Cash Cow in the room, the abusive monetarization. I realise there are two other articles on that point so maybe MMORPG.com is trying to be balanced here?
Anyway do keep us up to date on how long you stay in it, that's one of the things a dinosaur like me can't get my head around, if you know you will only play a month or two in a rotation with other games why bother?
I do plan on staying free to play. I'm in the high 40s right now and haven't spent a dime and am enjoying DI for what it is - an average ARPG whose biggest strength is cross platform play. The "need" to spend to progress through the story will be a no go for me, but if I play long enough I may buy one of the cosmetic outfits making me a paying customer.
As for the cash cow in the room, I was sticking to the technical aspects of the game. I have my own opinion on the monetization, maybe I'll share it with you some day.
Mitch as you mentioned before you only intend to do DI as free to play, this is a rather rich list from someone who is not going to pay.
That said I note "playing - and possibly even paying for", but that takes me on to you ignoring the Cash Cow in the room, the abusive monetarization. I realise there are two other articles on that point so maybe MMORPG.com is trying to be balanced here?
Anyway do keep us up to date on how long you stay in it, that's one of the things a dinosaur like me can't get my head around, if you know you will only play a month or two in a rotation with other games why bother?
I do plan on staying free to play. I'm in the high 40s right now and haven't spent a dime and am enjoying DI for what it is - an average ARPG whose biggest strength is cross platform play. The "need" to spend to progress through the story will be a no go for me, but if I play long enough I may buy one of the cosmetic outfits making me a paying customer.
As for the cash cow in the room, I was sticking to the technical aspects of the game. I have my own opinion on the monetization, maybe I'll share it with you some day.
Fair enough, I guess the pull is the IP and crossplay then, for me a game has to be at least good to play, average just doesn't make it (unless that's a "good" to you). I myself have bought a cosmetic outfit in a F2P as a sort of thank you for a good time, just hasn't happened often as I set a high bar for any MMO and one that's at least as high for F2P.
7: Get rid of the predatory F2P monitization model and make it P2P like every other PC Diablo game in existence.
That will be impossible other than scrapping the entire game and start anew! The whole game is designed entirely around the predatory gambling cash shop!
So really! There is no way to save this game other than I hope it will blow up Blizzard's face and die quickly!
If we as gamer's are unwilling to take a stand and draw a line and truly start voting with our wallets, then there is no hope for the future of gaming anymore!
It's the same with the whole Blockchain/NFT crap! It needs to die and go away before it gains any foothold!
Having to grind aperdoically to continue the story, is just egregious...
I find that the most annoying part of the leveling. It's not too bad when you just need to grind half a level but my Necro at level 51 got stopped by a level 56 next step requirement.
It doesn't even make sense that the XP gains are so badly tuned for the main story 1-60 leveling journey that playing the game normally has all of these progress stoppers.
It doesn't make sense especially because they don't even sell XP boosts. I wouldn't like it if they did but at least it would make sense why they're giving out less XP than what they need to do if they were trying to sell you boosters.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I have a feeling that is because they want players playing around with rifts to fill the gap in the ramp up to endgame.
They give you the Braving the Rift quest in Westmarch and give you access, so you know you can boost your character's XP and more directly their loot in tuning up for the next level gated part by churning rifts for a while.
Here is my take after giving it some deeper thought I think the existential question is not around monetization but rather around whether we want PC Gaming to be absorbed into the mobile gaming blob.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Here is my take after giving it some deeper thought I think the existential question is not around monetization but rather around whether we want PC Gaming to be absorbed into the mobile gaming blob.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
With increasing legislation against loot boxes governments may well get round to looking at this sort of gambling. The problem is that loot boxes had to be everywhere before ministers even had an inkling of what was going on. I am afraid this sort of cash shop may have to be everywhere as well before it comes to their attention.
Having to grind aperdoically to continue the story, is just egregious...
I find that the most annoying part of the leveling. It's not too bad when you just need to grind half a level but my Necro at level 51 got stopped by a level 56 next step requirement.
It doesn't even make sense that the XP gains are so badly tuned for the main story 1-60 leveling journey that playing the game normally has all of these progress stoppers.
It doesn't make sense especially because they don't even sell XP boosts. I wouldn't like it if they did but at least it would make sense why they're giving out less XP than what they need to do if they were trying to sell you boosters.
Thank you for your customer feedback, your concerns are very important to us, we will be implementing XP boosts asap. Happy Spending!
Mitch as you mentioned before you only intend to do DI as free to play, this is a rather rich list from someone who is not going to pay.
That said I note "playing - and possibly even paying for", but that takes me on to you ignoring the Cash Cow in the room, the abusive monetarization. I realise there are two other articles on that point so maybe MMORPG.com is trying to be balanced here?
Anyway do keep us up to date on how long you stay in it, that's one of the things a dinosaur like me can't get my head around, if you know you will only play a month or two in a rotation with other games why bother?
I do plan on staying free to play. I'm in the high 40s right now and haven't spent a dime and am enjoying DI for what it is - an average ARPG whose biggest strength is cross platform play. The "need" to spend to progress through the story will be a no go for me, but if I play long enough I may buy one of the cosmetic outfits making me a paying customer.
As for the cash cow in the room, I was sticking to the technical aspects of the game. I have my own opinion on the monetization, maybe I'll share it with you some day.
Fair enough on the monetization angle. I think people are kinda pissed so it's getting focus treatment, but keeping to the technical is more than fair enough.
Speaking specifically to the technical, an alternate working title for the article could be something like "6 Features a Billion Dollar AAA Game Company Should Include on Launch Day".
I think all of your 6 points are great. I also think if this were an indie or small dev studio and publisher with limited resources these would be excusable. For a studio-publisher this size it is completely unacceptable. Not that it matters much apparently as it is wildly popular, but I stand by the opinion.
I believe it's both because it's a major Blizzard franchise and because Blizzard decided it would bring a mobile Diablo title to PC as if it could stand up to the experiences of the past two titles, specifically with mobile monetization techniques included.
I think, despite the initial reaction at Blizzcon, this would've actually gone better if Blizzard *hadn't* ported it to PC to send the clear message that this was a one-off thing just to extend a money-making arm into mobile. It was already a mobile first title, that betrayal had already been felt.
Here is my take after giving it some deeper thought I think the existential question is not around monetization but rather around whether we want PC Gaming to be absorbed into the mobile gaming blob.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
With increasing legislation against loot boxes governments may well get round to looking at this sort of gambling. The problem is that loot boxes had to be everywhere before ministers even had an inkling of what was going on. I am afraid this sort of cash shop may have to be everywhere as well before it comes to their attention.
To me it’s far beyond cash shop. Mobile games target a very different audience than PC games. If we get absorbed into that blob it’s the end of the gaming style that I love.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
7: Get rid of the predatory F2P monitization model and make it P2P like every other PC Diablo game in existence.
Something I'm curious about right now: If this game ends up being successful (and there's little reason to think it won't be outside of the various net echo chambers), what place will D4 have in this world? Will they ever release another B2P Diablo if this game makes more money than a B2P version could?
Another reason I think the core fan base will quickly move back to D3/D2:R.
They didn't ask for this. Based on the videos we've seen regarding the math, I don't think they will want more of this. I think the monetization will see the PC side dry up hella fast, while the mobile side will make its money like mobile apps do.
And that would be the best case, realistic scenario. Because if they get a ton of cash from PC gamers for the MTX included, you can bet your ass D4 will try to push the boundary that direction.
I have a feeling that is because they want players playing around with rifts to fill the gap in the ramp up to endgame.
They give you the Braving the Rift quest in Westmarch and give you access, so you know you can boost your character's XP and more directly their loot in tuning up for the next level gated part by churning rifts for a while.
Those low level rifts are not even a good way to gear up (talking legendary gear drops, not gems) nor get XP. The most efficient grinds are bounties and collecting monster orbs for the bestiary book (another peeve: I wish they would tell you when you have 10 of those orbs since hey stop dropping until you use those 10.)
While you're doing those bounties you will run into a lot of ancient elite spawns and those have a much better chance of dropping legendary gear than rifts or dungeons.
One thing they have done with legendary gear that I've never seen done before and I really like is the whole power extract and inherit thing. It's especially good while leveling since legendary gear drops at your level.
When a higher level legendary piece than the one you're currently using drops you want to equip it but it may not have a power boost attached to it as good as the one in your lower level that you're using... No problem. Equip the higher level one, extract the power you like from the lower level one and have your new higher level item inherit that power (it replaces the power the new item came with.)
That's all done with small amounts of gold and is not just a good thing while leveling since after you have extracted enough powers you can make build changes quite easily by putting whichever powers you want in your current gear.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Fair enough, though I would point that bounties and bestiary are limited. After hammering out your eight daily you still gotta do something if you want to get to that next level gate faster.
Here is my take after giving it some deeper thought I think the existential question is not around monetization but rather around whether we want PC Gaming to be absorbed into the mobile gaming blob.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
With increasing legislation against loot boxes governments may well get round to looking at this sort of gambling. The problem is that loot boxes had to be everywhere before ministers even had an inkling of what was going on. I am afraid this sort of cash shop may have to be everywhere as well before it comes to their attention.
To me it’s far beyond cash shop. Mobile games target a very different audience than PC games. If we get absorbed into that blob it’s the end of the gaming style that I love.
Well gaming on platforms other than mobile have already been influenced by mobile play styles. That will only increase, even before we had a "making the mobile game first" strategy you could see MMOs making apps where you could play the PC game in a very limited form on the mobile. You could see somewhat more mobile like revenue generation in PC games. The push for mobile dominance ramped up once mobile became the most lucrative gaming platform.
We have for about 15 years had to avoid MMOs with dodgy revenue methods, but now that problem is acute, it will only get worse. I think PC and console will be part of the blob before governments wake up to the gambling nature of mobile games. I will say what I always say, play your favourite MMOs now before the revenue goalposts are moved once again.
Here is my take after giving it some deeper thought I think the existential question is not around monetization but rather around whether we want PC Gaming to be absorbed into the mobile gaming blob.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
With increasing legislation against loot boxes governments may well get round to looking at this sort of gambling. The problem is that loot boxes had to be everywhere before ministers even had an inkling of what was going on. I am afraid this sort of cash shop may have to be everywhere as well before it comes to their attention.
To me it’s far beyond cash shop. Mobile games target a very different audience than PC games. If we get absorbed into that blob it’s the end of the gaming style that I love.
Well gaming on platforms other than mobile have already been influenced by mobile play styles. That will only increase, even before we had a "making the mobile game first" strategy you could see MMOs making apps where you could play the PC game in a very limited form on the mobile. You could see somewhat more mobile like revenue generation in PC games. The push for mobile dominance ramped up once mobile became the most lucrative gaming platform.
We have for about 15 years had to avoid MMOs with dodgy revenue methods, but now that problem is acute, it will only get worse. I think PC and console will be part of the blob before governments wake up to the gambling nature of mobile games. I will say what I always say, play your favourite MMOs now before the revenue goalposts are moved once again.
Like I said : The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today Sir.
And no… I shall not go quietly into the night!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Fair enough, though I would point that bounties and bestiary are limited. After hammering out your eight daily you still gotta do something if you want to get to that next level gate faster.
Yes bounties are limited to 8 per day but much to my surprise, if you don't log in a character for a few days they stack up. I'm not sure if there's an upper limit but I logged in my Wizard yesterday and had 24 bounties available.
This also conveniently happened just as I hit the Zoltan Khule first level stopper... bonus!
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Fair enough, though I would point that bounties and bestiary are limited. After hammering out your eight daily you still gotta do something if you want to get to that next level gate faster.
Yes bounties are limited to 8 per day but much to my surprise, if you don't log in a character for a few days they stack up. I'm not sure if there's an upper limit but I logged in my Wizard yesterday and had 24 bounties available.
This also conveniently happened just as I hit the Zoltan Khule first level stopper... bonus!
0.5 on metacritic user score. Yeah lots of room for improvement.
Only low 60 for reviews in for PC, but higher for mobile, PC reviewers and users obviously have higher standards. Looking at those reviews all players are in the same boat. Many of us won't play it because of the abusive cash shop. If you are a F2Player who ends up leaving after a month because of the penalties of playing without playing you are in the same boat as us. Both sorts of player are not playing or leaving early because of the cash shop, that's the crux here. Though it will still do well if the whales like it, especially as mobile.
Comments
MMOSSM game?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I do plan on staying free to play. I'm in the high 40s right now and haven't spent a dime and am enjoying DI for what it is - an average ARPG whose biggest strength is cross platform play. The "need" to spend to progress through the story will be a no go for me, but if I play long enough I may buy one of the cosmetic outfits making me a paying customer.
As for the cash cow in the room, I was sticking to the technical aspects of the game. I have my own opinion on the monetization, maybe I'll share it with you some day.
That will be impossible other than scrapping the entire game and start anew! The whole game is designed entirely around the predatory gambling cash shop!
So really! There is no way to save this game other than I hope it will blow up Blizzard's face and die quickly!
If we as gamer's are unwilling to take a stand and draw a line and truly start voting with our wallets, then there is no hope for the future of gaming anymore!
It's the same with the whole Blockchain/NFT crap! It needs to die and go away before it gains any foothold!
It doesn't even make sense that the XP gains are so badly tuned for the main story 1-60 leveling journey that playing the game normally has all of these progress stoppers.
It doesn't make sense especially because they don't even sell XP boosts. I wouldn't like it if they did but at least it would make sense why they're giving out less XP than what they need to do if they were trying to sell you boosters.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They give you the Braving the Rift quest in Westmarch and give you access, so you know you can boost your character's XP and more directly their loot in tuning up for the next level gated part by churning rifts for a while.
I feel kind of like Maverick. The end may be inevitable and maybe we are headed for extinction... but not today.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think, despite the initial reaction at Blizzcon, this would've actually gone better if Blizzard *hadn't* ported it to PC to send the clear message that this was a one-off thing just to extend a money-making arm into mobile. It was already a mobile first title, that betrayal had already been felt.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
agree 100 %
was just fixing to type the same reply.
― James O'Barr, The Crow
“Sarah: "Buildings burn, people die, but real love is forever...”
― James O'Barr, The Crow
While you're doing those bounties you will run into a lot of ancient elite spawns and those have a much better chance of dropping legendary gear than rifts or dungeons.
One thing they have done with legendary gear that I've never seen done before and I really like is the whole power extract and inherit thing. It's especially good while leveling since legendary gear drops at your level.
When a higher level legendary piece than the one you're currently using drops you want to equip it but it may not have a power boost attached to it as good as the one in your lower level that you're using... No problem. Equip the higher level one, extract the power you like from the lower level one and have your new higher level item inherit that power (it replaces the power the new item came with.)
That's all done with small amounts of gold and is not just a good thing while leveling since after you have extracted enough powers you can make build changes quite easily by putting whichever powers you want in your current gear.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We have for about 15 years had to avoid MMOs with dodgy revenue methods, but now that problem is acute, it will only get worse. I think PC and console will be part of the blob before governments wake up to the gambling nature of mobile games. I will say what I always say, play your favourite MMOs now before the revenue goalposts are moved once again.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This also conveniently happened just as I hit the Zoltan Khule first level stopper... bonus!
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED