Amaranthar said You see, that shows that a lot of players do care about their look in-game.
Uniqueness is a factor, too. "Winning" is hard to define in an MMORPG, but having characters that "look the part", and still have a unique look, is a valuable thing for many.
That players are willing to buy cosmetics demonstrates they care about their look in-game in itself. It needed no further establishment.
There is no doubt such can increase the enjoyment a player derives from their character. If one wants to stretch the concept of "win" to the entirely subjective it can of course apply to anything, and thus mean essentially nothing.
An objective view requires some actual concrete game benefit be derived from spending money for any win to be available for payment.
But you guys are ignoring the better game play in my point. Put my game up against your game (designs), on equal quality of production, and my game's going to syphon off many of the gamers in your game. Simply because it's a better game experience.
And don't tell me "but it's free", because it's not and everyone knows it.
But see, here is the rub.
It won't.
I admit, I am kinda of apathetic about breaking that bit of info to you, but it's true.
Your game would have to be soo much better, and not just "better" but in the realm of "OMFG, This game made me shit my pants it was so fucking Awesome" level better, to get players to give up on their F2P game, which they can take breaks from, and come and go as they please, without worry, and feel like they always will have access to their character, and can just jump back in to talk with friends anytime they want, to go off and pay a sub just to access your game.
Not only would it have to be better, it would have to be so much better, that all their friends went to it as well.
Now, Will you be able to make that level of game?
No, now you will not, not unless you got access to some new level of tech shit that could redefine how games functioned, and reinvented what an MMO is from the ground up, which, lets be honest, and this is not a dis, but, we just need to wake up from the dream, put on the work boots, and accept that people stuck in the past on the old school sub based games, are not going to be the ones to do that.
Naa. Games are so lacking these days, that's not a problem. Half of it is "lowest common denominator" and the other half is "enhanced CS enticements."
There's no problem beating these current games for a better gaming experience, unless the audience is that "lowest common denominator" in both of those. And frankly, while I know there's gamers like that, and they have their rights too, but I really don't want to play with them. And I don't think I'm anywhere close to alone in that.
There are a few exceptions, of course. Games that are "almost" in some ways, but still not as good as could be. For various reasons. But the boredom is growing, even with them.
I enjoy your points, but lets be honest, if it was easy enough to make a Sub based game that could pull in the F2P crowed, it would have been made already.
F2P cash shop games, are not where they once were.
Maybe 10 years ago, F2P games were new, and thus generating 22 dollars a month to a subs 15, and the suits saw that extra 7 dollars per player and sullied their pants, (keep in mind in a game like EQ, 7 dollars per player amounted to around 3.5 Million a month) but todays market, they are generating around 3.50 per player, depending on the game of course, some games are better at getting money from their players than others are.
However that is a bit deceptive, because while they are making less per player, they are often making more overall, as they would get far, far, less players willing to pay a sub, ad this, far more players are playing their game if it's free, even if a lot less of them individually are doing any noticeable fiscal support, but it still provides this community feel to the players that paying into the system.
Anyway, again, any game that had the brass balls to expect people to pay a sub just to access it, would need to have made a truly amazing game or a truly unique game that scratched just the right itch to keep them alive. IE: very niche' games, or just made by delusional developers that thought enough people really wanted that.
So again, will games get made that would be able to justify a sub fee in a F2P market? Outside some really niche' games, it's Not going to happen, and it's about time we all just accept that.
So, when people talk about something other than a cash shop, they also need to have an idea that is not a sub, if they want to be taken seriously, no dis, but, pitching an idea that is currently failing, is does not show one's brilliance in marketing and money generation.
Did it ever occur to you that gamers are playing FtP because the genre isn't offering much worth paying for? We can see that people are getting bored with MMORPGs. They've done the rinse and repeat game play over and over again, game to game.
The genre is slowly losing steam. It'll take better designs, with more to do, to reverse course. You keep bringing up what has been and saying nothing else will work, all while it's drying up.
Did it ever occur to you that gamers are playing FtP because the genre isn't offering much worth paying for?
Dude, that is why they are all going F2P, they never were worth paying a sub for, none of them, no, not your little favorite game either, none of them were worth the sub fee, the only reason the sub lasted for as long as it did, was because it was the only option, and by the time F2P really took off, people were very trenched into their games, so they payed the sub, even it was not a good payment system.
But, again, you would need to make serious next level "fucking amazing" shit, to demand a sub again, and the hard truth is, if you are thinking about a sub as your only means of income and not some next level "fucking amazing" monetary system, you are not the one that is going to make the next "next level fucking amazing shit".. no diss. I am sure you are a great person, and all that.
Anyway, if your plan is a sub, it's failed.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I agree subs have failed. Even if there are people willing to pay the vast majority don't want to. If a company is making an MMO they want as many people as they can get playing it. Paid subs are no longer viable to attract as many people as they can get simply because there are too many choices out there including older games that are F2P.
They way games have structured their payments with so many choices available to an average player they will not accept just one method of payment that is a sub because every other company is offering more choices. In this aspect you snooze you lose no matter how wonderful your game is simply because it won't be able to attract enough subs to get a proper return. I don't think developers are even considering subs any more except as part of other types of payment like a monthly pass which is optional. They offer the sub as a disguised payment that is totally optional with perks which seems to be a lot more palatable.
Most players say it over and over that the game isn't worth a monthly sub. How are you going to get paid subs when the prevalent attitude to subs is negative?
When companies keep saying in the feedback they have gotten that players don't want to pay fixed subs. Plus they don't want to feel obliged to play because they are paying they'd rather play when they want to and not waste the paid subs when they are not playing.
I agree subs have failed. Even if there are people willing to pay the vast majority don't want to. If a company is making an MMO they want as many people as they can get playing it. Paid subs are no longer viable to attract as many people as they can get simply because there are too many choices out there including older games that are F2P.
They way games have structured their payments with so many choices available to an average player they will not accept just one method of payment that is a sub because every other company is offering more choices. In this aspect you snooze you lose no matter how wonderful your game is simply because it won't be able to attract enough subs to get a proper return. I don't think developers are even considering subs any more except as part of other types of payment like a monthly pass which is optional. They offer the sub as a disguised payment that is totally optional with perks which seems to be a lot more palatable.
Most players say it over and over that the game isn't worth a monthly sub. How are you going to get paid subs when the prevalent attitude to subs is negative?
When companies keep saying in the feedback they have gotten that players don't want to pay fixed subs. Plus they don't want to feel obliged to play because they are paying they'd rather play when they want to and not waste the paid subs when they are not playing.
We could have another ESO, a sub only MMORPG could do well again; but as the revenue method of choice, subscription is not coming back. The MMORPG to launch well as a sub is going to probably need a big IP and AAA or a dedicated small indie. I don't see subscription working in the middle ground at all.
Comments
Did it ever occur to you that gamers are playing FtP because the genre isn't offering much worth paying for?
Dude, that is why they are all going F2P, they never were worth paying a sub for, none of them, no, not your little favorite game either, none of them were worth the sub fee, the only reason the sub lasted for as long as it did, was because it was the only option, and by the time F2P really took off, people were very trenched into their games, so they payed the sub, even it was not a good payment system.
But, again, you would need to make serious next level "fucking amazing" shit, to demand a sub again, and the hard truth is, if you are thinking about a sub as your only means of income and not some next level "fucking amazing" monetary system, you are not the one that is going to make the next "next level fucking amazing shit".. no diss. I am sure you are a great person, and all that.
Anyway, if your plan is a sub, it's failed.
They way games have structured their payments with so many choices available to an average player they will not accept just one method of payment that is a sub because every other company is offering more choices. In this aspect you snooze you lose no matter how wonderful your game is simply because it won't be able to attract enough subs to get a proper return. I don't think developers are even considering subs any more except as part of other types of payment like a monthly pass which is optional. They offer the sub as a disguised payment that is totally optional with perks which seems to be a lot more palatable.
Most players say it over and over that the game isn't worth a monthly sub. How are you going to get paid subs when the prevalent attitude to subs is negative?
When companies keep saying in the feedback they have gotten that players don't want to pay fixed subs. Plus they don't want to feel obliged to play because they are paying they'd rather play when they want to and not waste the paid subs when they are not playing.