Crypto Crash... the end of Crypto gaming before it even started?

Slapshot1188

Looks like all Crypto is in a freefall.  Now, I am sure that at some point there will be a weed-out and some of these will rise again.  But from a gaming perspective... is this crash enough to put an and to their inclusion in games? 

Or is this just a blip soon to be forgotten as we get endless P2E games shoveled our way?

For reference: ETH which many of these games were based on has fallen from a high of $4865 to $900... an 82% fall.

Even if we disregard the player side... is it even possible to run a business when the currency you get paid in fluctuates like that?

Ungood

If the feature was a fun and enjoyable addition to a game mechanic that players liked, it will continue to thrive, because the mechanic itself is attractive to gamers.

If the feature was butt suck and only existed because it was a way for the game company to make profit, it will die faster than a mosquito in a bug zapper.

Dattelis

idk, even Bill Gates calls crypto and NFTs a scam.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

If the feature was a fun and enjoyable addition to a game mechanic that players liked, it will continue to thrive, because the mechanic itself is attractive to gamers.

If the feature was butt suck and only existed because it was a way for the game company to make profit, it will die faster than a mosquito in a bug zapper.

Of course.

But the question is:  IS this the end.. or not?

Iselin

Other than the technical details, this has been nothing but an attempt to make niche play to earn games like Entropia mainstream.

The cultists never liked it when we brought up Entropia 'cause they claimed that it's really this wonderful new tech that makes this new version of it attractive ("you really own these NFTs!"... yeah until they shut down) but it really is nothing but Entropia wearing new clothes.

Time will tell whether with or without the crypto trappings their PR converted enough to having P2E in their games be something they embrace.

For me it's a perversion of the purpose of gaming (competing and playing with others just for the fun of it) that kind of turns it into a sweatshop like job.

But I'm old so I barely count

Dattelis

Iselin said:

Other than the technical details, this has been nothing but an attempt to make niche play to earn games like Entropia mainstream.

The cultists never liked it when we brought up Entropia 'cause they claimed that it's really this wonderful new tech that makes this new version of it attractive ("you really own these NFTs!"... yeah until they shut down) but it really is nothing but Entropia wearing new clothes.

Time will tell whether with or without the crypto trappings their PR converted enough to having P2E in their games be something they embrace.

For me it's a perversion of the purpose of gaming (competing and playing with others just for the fun of it) that kind of turns it into a sweatshop like job.

But I'm old so I barely count

Kind of my thoughts as well. Even though some people have been making money off gaming before, it was usually a handful compared to overall market (usually through competitions or even selling accounts I guess). With the rise of YouTube/Twitch and other platforms, one could assume something was going to start though, especially with how desperate people have become during the pandemic (scams have supposedly risen by 70% or something like that globally since the start of covid). So if there's an easy way to make money, many people will at least try it, which is kind of why crypto/nfts kind of made steam for a bit.

eoloe

I think the crash is not the end of it.

The tech exists. There will be always freedom enthusiast claiming that Web 3.0 is the next door to paradise...

...even if web 3 is already handing everything to big portal companies = Web 2 = no real freedom progress...

Anyway, the tech is invented and is here to stay. A given tech only disappears when it becomes obsolete. And this one is based on speech. Make a good one and people will buy your coin.

BTW, you can start to buy my coin the SealCoin. 0.00085% of all transactions are funding an association defending baby seals. Go for it! I swear: it is not a scam!

Luiden

The biggest scam since Bernie, this one is worst though because there is nobody to sue.

Kyleran

Just read an interesting article in Web3 is Going Great referencing a Bloomberg story about the collapse of one of the poster children of P2E, Axie Infinity who actually have walked back on it, now referring to it as play and earn.

"Axie Infinity says it was never about the money after describing their game as a job-creator"

"Now, Axie Infinity downplays the financial promises of its game, with the company's head of product writing, "Axie Infinity first and foremost needs to be a game.""

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/?id=axie-infinity-says-it-was-never-about-the-money-after-describing-their-game-as-a-job-creator

The Bloomberg article is good read, tells story of a guy who sank $40K into the game creating a stable of axies which he would lease out to "scholars" (crypto gaming equivalent of medieval serfdom) but now can't make any real use of as prices went thru the floor.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-06-10/axie-infinity-axs-crypto-game-promised-nft-riches-gave-ruin

"As of May, even top-ranked players were making around $0.68 a day—certainly well below the $41.50 average daily wage in the Philippines that the game was once beating"

TheDalaiBomba

The worst part is NFTs were never necessary to create Axie Infinity, only necessary to build misplaced hype.

Theocritus

I hope we never see it again but it is unlikely.

Scot

Robokapp said:

i thought cryptos were decentralized so this could never happen? what happened, bros?

What happened was a slap in the face from economic reality, I mentioned here before that if crypto fell you wouldn't have to worry about being taken to the cleaners because you wouldn't have a shirt.

Will they rise again, of course they will; crypto was built on the wishes of many people, that is enough to make them rise again. But their inherent fragility will remain, both in terms of what backs up the currencies and the lack of 'investment know how' of those who invest in them.

Vrika

Robokapp said:

i thought cryptos were decentralized so this could never happen? what happened, bros?

Reality happened. Most assets have two ways of generating profit to the investors:

First, the asset itself usually generates money. For example companies usually generate profit, if you rent land or properties you'll get profit from the rent you collect, etc.

Second, the value of asset itself usually rises: For example if you own a company or a piece of land for 20 years and decide to sell it, in most cases you'll get much more money than you originally bought it for.

So the investors usually make double profit: First their investment generates money for them, and second they can eventually sell it at a profit.



Crypto investments are one of the exceptions to this: They don't generate any money. The only way you can make profit from crypto is through the second way, by selling it at higher value at later time.

When the markets are rising fast enough it's not a problem for crypto items: Investors keep buying the same item off from each other at increasing price, everyone keeps making profit, and everyone is happy.



When the market values take a downturn, it can lead to some investors selling off their unprofitable investment. This increase in sellers in turn leads to market value falling further. This further market value fall in turn can lead to even more investors who sell off their unprofitable investment. And this again decreases the market value further. Sometimes it becomes a spiral that can lead even to dramatic crashes.

Most traditional assets like profitable companies are protected from this kind of spiral of doom because at some point you'll get enough investors thinking "if it's this cheap let's buy it and hold it for the money it's generating". So the value of investments can fluctuate, but some of it is also secured by the assets potential to generate money.

For crypto items that can't generate money, there's no point where the crash would stop "because of the money that asset can generate".

Crypto assets can keep rising in value as long as people believe in them rising and buying them at increasing price. But if that belief stops, they are also prone to crashing dramatically. Since they aren't generating money, there's no point below which they wouldn't crash.

maskedweasel

I touched on a lot of this in another thread so Im not going to rehash a lot of what I've already said unless it's specifically asked. 

But what I will say is, no, it's not going anywhere. As the broad market fluctuates, those who treat various blockchains as if they were stocks will also see their 'investments' fluctuate. 

It works differently for games, or at least some games. Ideally in game asset economies should act accordingly to supply and demand. It's kind of a double edged sword too though, because most games that expect an avid token economy that open up play to earn mechanics will likely tank their own price if sellers flood the markets with currency. 

In the end it really doesn't matter too much if people are buying, the developers still generally make less but comparatively they will always come out ahead at around a 20% full profit on anything traded, give or take a an additional 10%. In some cases developers put a minimum transaction charge on assets, meaning that even if they have a market based system, like axie, where when the market tanks, the assets tank, you will never be able to sell an item for less than the transaction charge. 

So, basically, despite prices tanking, you kind of have to take into consideration what exactly these prices are. Anyone can make a cryptocurrency. We know that already. Generally speaking it costs a few cents to do so. We're basically talking about a similar cost to generate in-game gold at this point.

In most cases, the coins have no intrinsic value. The game gives the token its value. Tokens retain value from people who hold the tokens, usually in a speculative manner, expecting the coin to rise in value as it's being circulated. 

In games, you generally circulate the currency pretty often because there is no value to holding the tokens. That's why a lot of developers are implementing staking, because they want people holding the tokens instead of selling them, and the percentage they pay players to do it is minimal if they can artificially raise the price. In many cases, the chains that these tokens are built on don't realistically require token holders to validate using proof of stake, and many are layer 2's with alternate proofs so the idea of staking would relatively revolve around removing tokens from circulation to help balance price fluctuations from massive selloffs from farmers. 

It'll all hit home to a lot of the developers soon. They'll have to implement some pretty punishing drains with some very enjoyable gameplay very soon if they want to make this stuff work long term. Either that, or they'll need to move towards abolishing the token sales, and stick to limited asset allocation if they want to stop farmers from ruining the economy. 

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Xiaoki

NFT video games may catch on but no one can say when. Could be a year from now, could 100 years from now.

The biggest hurdle currently is that NFT video games are forgetting one crucial aspect: the video game. All NFT video games are terrible.

For NFT video games to have any hope at all of catching on it would take a pop culture phenomenon game on the level of early WoW or Fortnite.

achesoma

Crypto will evolve over time and most certainly become more regulated. But it's not going anywhere. As far as gaming, I see it eventually falling under the category of online gambling. Currently, crypto is down because the whole global market is down, inflation is up, a major war is going on with potential escalation, and we're nearing a global recession. Crypto crashes are common and happens about every 4 years. It's because no one is actually using it, people buy in, hold for a few years then cash out for fiat. Then the cycle repeats.

Slapshot1188

achesoma said:

Crypto will evolve over time and most certainly become more regulated. But it's not going anywhere. As far as gaming, I see it eventually falling under the category of online gambling. Currently, crypto is down because the whole global market is down, inflation is up, a major war is going on with potential escalation, and we're nearing a global recession. Crypto crashes are common and happens about every 4 years. It's because no one is actually using it, people buy in, hold for a few years then cash out for fiat. Then the cycle repeats.

I agree Crypto will rise again. The question is which ones?

But as to your gambling point, while I think it is true... I also think it applies to the companies and not just the players.  If you are paid in some Crypto and that currency can drop 80% in a few weeks.. that's a tough pill to swallow.

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Kyleran

Here's a thought, perhaps the current crypto crash will encourage these developers to concentrate on making a good game first, instead of holding out the NFT / crypto aspects as the big lure to their product.

Scot

Kyleran said:

Here's a thought, perhaps the current crypto crash will encourage these developers to concentrate on making a good game first, instead of holding out the NFT / crypto aspects as the big lure to their product.

NFT's can still sell the idea they are exclusive even if not worth much, if that does not work they will come up with another big lure. Whales gotta eat.

OldKingLog

I sincerely hope this will keep the rank taint of blockchain and NFT's out of mainstream gaming. Sadly though the one thing you cannot fix is stupid. Now that the public is seeing that the emperor has no clothes and crypto is just a giant pachinko machine I'm betting there is still no shortage of fools with too much money on their hands, and a ton of snake oil salesmen ready to take it from them.

Akulas

It only has a place as a piece of digital data stored in a blockchain to verify that you showed up for work next to your finger and time punched in.

Quizzical

Kyleran said:

Here's a thought, perhaps the current crypto crash will encourage these developers to concentrate on making a good game first, instead of holding out the NFT / crypto aspects as the big lure to their product.

Or perhaps crypto is the excuse for developers who can't make a good game to make a bad one instead.

olepi

I think to some game developers, crypto/NFT looks like a quick and easy way to make money. Instead of the massive development needed for any really good game, they can just cheap their way out by adding crypto/NFT to a minimal game development effort.

And since crypto/NFT is really a pyramid scheme, the current crash won't have any real effect on it. They are counting on ignorant people to prey on in the first place.