And right here is why the idea of Games as a Service sucks monkey nuts.
Oh, I dunno, golfers have been playing games as a service for 100 plus years, right?
I mean, they have access as long as they pay the rental fee, be it for 18 holes or an annual membership which they lose access to the course once they stop paying.
Same for many sports, aka games, tennis, horseshoes, someone's gotta pay for their upkeep.
Video gamers are just spoiled and think one and done is a monetization model any business wishes to support indefinitely.
These cost like what, $25 to $100 bucks tops, enjoy them while available, move along when they are gone.
Don't get stuck in a "time warp" like these folks...
It's just a jump to the left....
I agree with this. I mean in the group of games mentioned, all but one offer a single player component that the vast majority of gamers bought the game for to begin with. That is still available to them. To have the multiplayer servers and/or DLC that relies on online features shut down after 10 years or more on the market is reasonable and honestly normal.
To villainize Ubisoft for closing servers of Xbox 360 and PS3 games and only in (some cases) PC counterparts is really pushing it. Those that still had a fanbase worth it were given the remaster treatment and rereleased.
People can't expect ghost town servers of dead games to just remain online forever.
Rockstar shut GTA 4 servers down years ago Xcom 1 and 2 multiplayer servers were taken offline forever and are now listed as a single player games on Steam. This happens more than people seem to realize.
I'm down with this completely... IF they take the fact you're essentially renting access out of a long as shit ToS and market it up front accordingly.
It's no longer going "on sale," it's "for rent." They're not offering me a copy of a game, they're selling me access credentials to a service. I think this fact should be made absolutely clear in marketing materials, sort of like how tobacco has to make the nature of its product clear to consumers.
"Please note Activision Blizzard is not offering a copy of the game for sale. What you are purchasing is an access license that may be revoked at any time per the written Terms of Service required to access this service." at the top of every store page accordingly.
This is a license thing wtih Studio Canal movies on Playstation (John Wick, Hunger games, etc...) yet the result is the same. Losing things you paid for and think you own.
Or a different angle where 505 Games removed the DLC for Control on marketplaces and making people buy the 'new' version of the game if they wanted the DLC if gamers only owned the base game prior. This happens with console games (like in this case) after every console shift.
In this Ubisoft case it is for 360 and PS3 games and their content with a couple of nonplayed PC ports.
Versions of this practice happen all the time.
You dont always actually own many digital items you buy.
Personally I think it is beyond common sense at this point. This has been going on for years and years. Should there be a disclaimer? Sure I guess so. Some already do, people just don't read through it. For the most part though this practice is so old and common it seems strange to me people are surprised by it most of the way through 2022.
At least in this Ubisoft case it is games that are old and not played. They are giving you a couple of months notice to download the DLC. Online functionality coming down is understandable. Let's be honest though, very few people, in reality, are honestly going to be affected by this. The bigger games on there already have updated versions running not affected by this. Many gamers got Far Cry 3 Remastered and AC3 Remastered for free so retiring their old versions, DLC included, makes sense.
Again, much ado about nothing.
It is most decidedly not common sense, and as someone who works in software, your perspective is not common.
Additionally, nothing about any of that changes anything about my post. Just apply the post to those same situations. If people aren't actually purchasing a thing, they shouldn't be advertised to as if they're purchasing that thing. I really don't care if that's a video game, a movie, a puppy, or a pack of cigarettes.
It is not hard to grasp the logic behind it. If it's so obvious, as you say, it also won't do anything to affect how they market these games or the sales. So your argument for allowing video game producers to continue being dishonest in marketing their products is what, again?
This isn't just about a video game ending servers support. As you showed in your reply, it goes well beyond that and providers are revoking access to digital items they advertised as for sale, not for rent. Hell, producers use legal weight to shut down player-created servers these players pay for on their own just so they can continue enjoying a product they purchased. They do this *even when* the players aren't making any money off the damn thing, AND *even when* server support wasnt part of the game copy purchase, but was supported by microtransactions or a sub separate from the game purchase itself. That's a pretty clear bias in favor of producers here.
The nature of the transaction should be clear, and it's decidedly not when it comes to digital terms of service in general. You know that, I know that, and trying to act like it's not the case is burying your head in the sand.
There are literally dozens of articles over the past few years about exactly this: how much ownership we have over digital items we purchase, including movies. It is decidedly *not* common sense, because it's marketed dishonestly to those same people you think should know better. It always has been lol.
You do not own it and never have. They have decided after 10+ years to terminate the EULA and not allow further downloads after a couple of months warning.
People freak out about something that has been going on for years by all companies AND are told could happen upfront.
I'm sorry but it is common sense.
I don't agree with villainizing a company because of a misunderstanding of an upfront legal document a gamer agrees to themselves.
You are being fair in a legal sense, but customers need more of a big flag that this is the case. They also need to remove items they know are about to disappear from sale.
I shall retaliate by buying the game from steam, get the cd key, activate the cd key on the Ubisoft client, refund the game on steam. Then I can get the game for nothing.
It is most decidedly not common sense, and as someone who works in software, your perspective is not common.
Additionally, nothing about any of that changes anything about my post. Just apply the post to those same situations. If people aren't actually purchasing a thing, they shouldn't be advertised to as if they're purchasing that thing. I really don't care if that's a video game, a movie, a puppy, or a pack of cigarettes.
It is not hard to grasp the logic behind it. If it's so obvious, as you say, it also won't do anything to affect how they market these games or the sales. So your argument for allowing video game producers to continue being dishonest in marketing their products is what, again?
This isn't just about a video game ending servers support. As you showed in your reply, it goes well beyond that and providers are revoking access to digital items they advertised as for sale, not for rent. Hell, producers use legal weight to shut down player-created servers these players pay for on their own just so they can continue enjoying a product they purchased. They do this *even when* the players aren't making any money off the damn thing, AND *even when* server support wasnt part of the game copy purchase, but was supported by microtransactions or a sub separate from the game purchase itself. That's a pretty clear bias in favor of producers here.
The nature of the transaction should be clear, and it's decidedly not when it comes to digital terms of service in general. You know that, I know that, and trying to act like it's not the case is burying your head in the sand.
There are literally dozens of articles over the past few years about exactly this: how much ownership we have over digital items we purchase, including movies. It is decidedly *not* common sense, because it's marketed dishonestly to those same people you think should know better. It always has been lol.
My 'perspective' as you call it is one shared by every EULA for every game people refuse to read and the knowledge that every developer is aware of it.
You are upset about a 'right of ownership' idea but not focused on the legal reality and history of questionable ownership of a product that 'lives' in a digital space you do not own. If you want to feel like you 'own it' than download it before September.
It is not being stolen.
The EULA- legal writ the vast majority of gamers just skip past without reading tells you this, so yes it 'should' be common sense.
1.1 UBISOFT (or its licensors) grants You a non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensed, non-commercial and personal license to install and/or use the Product (in whole or in part) and any Product (the “License”), for such time until either You or UBISOFT terminates this EULA. You must in no event use, nor allow others to use,the Product or this License for commercial purposes without obtaining a license to do so from UBISOFT. Updates, upgrades, patches and modifications may be necessary in order to be able to continue to use the Product on certain hardware. THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED TO YOU, NOT SOLD.
8. TERMINATION.
The EULA is effective from the earlier of the date You purchase, download or use the Product, until terminated according to its terms. You and UBISOFT (or its licensors) may terminate this EULA, at any time, for any reason. Termination by UBISOFT will be effective upon (a) notice to You or (b) termination of Your UBISOFT Account (if any) or (c) at the time of UBISOFT’s decision to discontinue offering and/or supporting the Product. This EULA will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions of this EULA. Upon termination for any reason, You must immediately uninstall the Product and destroy all copies of the Product in Your possession.
You do not own it and never have. They have decided after 10+ years to terminate the EULA and not allow further downloads after a couple of months warning.
People freak out about something that has been going on for years by all companies AND are told could happen upfront.
I'm sorry but it is common sense.
I don't agree with villainizing a company because of a misunderstanding of an upfront legal document a gamer agrees to themselves.
This completely avoided my actual point in favor of arguing against an easier position I never offered.
This just re-affirms that we dont own anything anymore, just long-term renting.
Well, yeah.
I can no longer play my favorite game ever, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
Though with MMORPGs its kind of hard to see how that would ever be avoidable.
Still, offline games have the same problem now because newer computers no longer offer Blueray.
I've already bought a couple of my games on GoG already though and I'll probably buy some more.
If you need a blu-ray drive and your computer doesn't have one, then you can buy one and plug it in. They never did become as cheap as DVD burners, but they're readily available for well under $100.
Edit: after reading further in the thread, Vrika already said this.
If it's a online game, why do you want to keep the dlc?
Because most DLC have a mixture of online and single player new features and content?
That's my final answer, Regis.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So, none of you would be even a little bothered if you had an account banned in your favorite MMO because it's within their rights to remove accounts in the ToS?
There's a lot of nonsense in those agreements and this isn't a new concern. In fact, people having been voicing the same concerns about digital rights since Oblivion horse armor over a decade ago.
It's not like people are doing the 'I'm gonna sue you' tantrum or something here.
Some of you are so binary in your thinking that it's fascinating.
Just curious... did those games ship with multiplayer and DLCs added extra multiplayer things or was multiplayer itself added to all of those as part of a DLC?
Either way it seems like an exceptionally consumer unfriendly move. Even a company as hated as EA has kept the multiplayer servers for their old games like ME3 and DAI up and running despite how few ever bother with it.
It's really saying something to outdo EA at being scumbags.
If there was any money transacted for a DLC, I'd say it's the property of the player, and removing it without their permission is a criminal act. Totally despicable.
I expect the terms of agreement associated with DLC with online components would have specified access to it was not guaranteed for perpetuity. One probably has about as much claim to genuine ownership of such as the last expansion purchased for their MMORPG of choice.
So, none of you would be even a little bothered if you had an account banned in your favorite MMO because it's within their rights to remove accounts in the ToS?
There's a lot of nonsense in those agreements and this isn't a new concern. In fact, people having been voicing the same concerns about digital rights since Oblivion horse armor over a decade ago.
It's not like people are doing the 'I'm gonna sue you' tantrum or something here.
Some of you are so binary in your thinking that it's fascinating.
No player is ever going to get the right to access MMORPGs or any other multi-player game with impunity regardless of their conduct while playing them. To expect otherwise is absurd.
Comments
Additionally, nothing about any of that changes anything about my post. Just apply the post to those same situations. If people aren't actually purchasing a thing, they shouldn't be advertised to as if they're purchasing that thing. I really don't care if that's a video game, a movie, a puppy, or a pack of cigarettes.
It is not hard to grasp the logic behind it. If it's so obvious, as you say, it also won't do anything to affect how they market these games or the sales. So your argument for allowing video game producers to continue being dishonest in marketing their products is what, again?
This isn't just about a video game ending servers support. As you showed in your reply, it goes well beyond that and providers are revoking access to digital items they advertised as for sale, not for rent. Hell, producers use legal weight to shut down player-created servers these players pay for on their own just so they can continue enjoying a product they purchased. They do this *even when* the players aren't making any money off the damn thing, AND *even when* server support wasnt part of the game copy purchase, but was supported by microtransactions or a sub separate from the game purchase itself. That's a pretty clear bias in favor of producers here.
The nature of the transaction should be clear, and it's decidedly not when it comes to digital terms of service in general. You know that, I know that, and trying to act like it's not the case is burying your head in the sand.
There are literally dozens of articles over the past few years about exactly this: how much ownership we have over digital items we purchase, including movies. It is decidedly *not* common sense, because it's marketed dishonestly to those same people you think should know better. It always has been lol.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
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How I miss being able to pop a CD in and just install and play a game.
Well the people who pirate games must be laughing at this.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Edit: after reading further in the thread, Vrika already said this.
That's my final answer, Regis.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Or buy those old games pretty cheap on GoG and dont need any of that.
There's a lot of nonsense in those agreements and this isn't a new concern. In fact, people having been voicing the same concerns about digital rights since Oblivion horse armor over a decade ago.
It's not like people are doing the 'I'm gonna sue you' tantrum or something here.
Some of you are so binary in your thinking that it's fascinating.
I expect the terms of agreement associated with DLC with online components would have specified access to it was not guaranteed for perpetuity. One probably has about as much claim to genuine ownership of such as the last expansion purchased for their MMORPG of choice.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
No player is ever going to get the right to access MMORPGs or any other multi-player game with impunity regardless of their conduct while playing them. To expect otherwise is absurd.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023