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Blizzard's Mike Ybarra Defends Diablo Immortal Monetization, Says Goal Was Free, Quality Content | M

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  • iicecubeiicecube Member UncommonPosts: 58
    Dont play it, simple and easy if it not up to your standard.
    Not sure what so big fuss
    Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited July 2022
    Well no one at Blizzard is going to put their hand up and say "its awful" are they. When western companies hand over their franchise to eastern ones which they know are going to make a P2W grinder they are just as culpable. I noted elsewhere that we have not had anything other than abusive revenue systems in MMOs from China and Korea, but if you send your franchise over to them it is your fault as much as theirs.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]
  • KatagiriKatagiri Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Yeah... right...
  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,531
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    Mensur said:
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.
    No.  He understand that what he says will be parroted and amplified as though it was true, even if it fails the slightest test of critical thinking.

    He is actually the smart one.
    KyleranBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    Aori said:
    Mensur said:
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.
    No.  He understand that what he says will be parroted and amplified as though it was true, even if it fails the slightest test of critical thinking.

    He is actually the smart one.
    Not sure why you guys are throwing around this critical thinking thing, deep bias has been clearly shown and the lack of objectivity is evident. I expect this from the 3 circle jerkers but not you too.

    Regardless of your view, he said nothing incorrect. You can consume the entire game except 5 star gems for free, I've done it and it was minimal grind in comparison to what Diablo is generally. So yes, he said nothing wrong with regards to that. 

    The issue is, I have nothing to do or work towards unlike a Diablo game but that isn't what this article is about. Honestly it isn't even what his interview is about, his interview is about the struggles at Blizzard. 
    For what you claim to be true, they would have made $40M from 0.5% of the game… and all in 1 month.

    That simply lacks credibility.  Whatever portion of the game you THINK you played… it sure wasn’t 99.5% of it.   
    UwakionnaTheDalaiBombaKyleranBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Mensur said:
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.
    No.  He understand that what he says will be parroted and amplified as though it was true, even if it fails the slightest test of critical thinking.

    He is actually the smart one.
    Not sure why you guys are throwing around this critical thinking thing, deep bias has been clearly shown and the lack of objectivity is evident. I expect this from the 3 circle jerkers but not you too.

    Regardless of your view, he said nothing incorrect. You can consume the entire game except 5 star gems for free, I've done it and it was minimal grind in comparison to what Diablo is generally. So yes, he said nothing wrong with regards to that. 

    The issue is, I have nothing to do or work towards unlike a Diablo game but that isn't what this article is about. Honestly it isn't even what his interview is about, his interview is about the struggles at Blizzard. 
    For what you claim to be true, they would have made $40M from 0.5% of the game… and all in 1 month.

    That simply lacks credibility.  Whatever portion of the game you THINK you played… it sure wasn’t 99.5% of it.   
    What game did I not play? Continue telling me what I did and did not do. Tell me how a whale has played substantially more of the game than me? Is that the metric we're using? Money spent is how much of the game you played? Ridiculous.

    What content am I locked out of that a whale is not? Go ahead tell me. 
    You either entirely skipped the PvP portion of the game or served as the minnows for the sharks and whales to eat.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WsIXLVHZdc

    Or how about the whole Cycle of Strife?  

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Mensur said:
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.
    No.  He understand that what he says will be parroted and amplified as though it was true, even if it fails the slightest test of critical thinking.

    He is actually the smart one.
    Not sure why you guys are throwing around this critical thinking thing, deep bias has been clearly shown and the lack of objectivity is evident. I expect this from the 3 circle jerkers but not you too.

    Regardless of your view, he said nothing incorrect. You can consume the entire game except 5 star gems for free, I've done it and it was minimal grind in comparison to what Diablo is generally. So yes, he said nothing wrong with regards to that. 

    The issue is, I have nothing to do or work towards unlike a Diablo game but that isn't what this article is about. Honestly it isn't even what his interview is about, his interview is about the struggles at Blizzard. 
    For what you claim to be true, they would have made $40M from 0.5% of the game… and all in 1 month.

    That simply lacks credibility.  Whatever portion of the game you THINK you played… it sure wasn’t 99.5% of it.   
    What game did I not play? Continue telling me what I did and did not do. Tell me how a whale has played substantially more of the game than me? Is that the metric we're using? Money spent is how much of the game you played? Ridiculous.

    What content am I locked out of that a whale is not? Go ahead tell me. 
    You either entirely skipped the PvP portion of the game or served as the minnows for the sharks and whales to eat.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WsIXLVHZdc

    Or how about the whole Cycle of Strife?  

    What, do ranks qualify as PvP content now? Nothing changes from the lowest to the highest rank. PvP is dynamic content every user will have a different experience in any game.

    I've done Cycle of Strife. I've done the Rite of Exile battleground, I didn't do challenge the immortals because its only 3 people per clan and one of those is always the clan leader. If we win this weekend, our alliance will be immortals.
    Read what I typed again.


    DIablo has ALWAYS been about TWO things...  Getting loot so you can go back and play it again on a harder level... and getting loot so you can go PvP.

    If you think that the $40M was really made in month by people playing 0.5% of the game... well...  there is a saying about that but I'll just end it here.


    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    he can say what he wants, but Bobby K isnt getting 30 mil a year from a free game..... Blizzard has always been about making money in every possible way it can, and it will never have enough of it.
    Scot
  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    You are all wrong, and deep inside you know it.

    No CEO in the world would lie openly, because their goal in life lives in the spiritual spheres of divine truth that has to be delivered to the mass.

    So, please be grateful, and thank Mr. Ybarra to have addressed your petty concerns via the aforementioned message.


  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 600
  • DattelisDattelis Member EpicPosts: 1,674
    Any particular reason why D:I can't be compared to PoE in terms of business model?
    FrodoFragins
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    Mensur said:
    Yeah. This dev either does not care or he is stupid.
    No.  He understand that what he says will be parroted and amplified as though it was true, even if it fails the slightest test of critical thinking.

    He is actually the smart one.
    Not sure why you guys are throwing around this critical thinking thing, deep bias has been clearly shown and the lack of objectivity is evident. I expect this from the 3 circle jerkers but not you too.

    Regardless of your view, he said nothing incorrect. You can consume the entire game except 5 star gems for free, I've done it and it was minimal grind in comparison to what Diablo is generally. So yes, he said nothing wrong with regards to that. 

    The issue is, I have nothing to do or work towards unlike a Diablo game but that isn't what this article is about. Honestly it isn't even what his interview is about, his interview is about the struggles at Blizzard. 
    For what you claim to be true, they would have made $40M from 0.5% of the game… and all in 1 month.

    That simply lacks credibility.  Whatever portion of the game you THINK you played… it sure wasn’t 99.5% of it.   
    What game did I not play? Continue telling me what I did and did not do. Tell me how a whale has played substantially more of the game than me? Is that the metric we're using? Money spent is how much of the game you played? Ridiculous.

    What content am I locked out of that a whale is not? Go ahead tell me. 
    You either entirely skipped the PvP portion of the game or served as the minnows for the sharks and whales to eat.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WsIXLVHZdc

    Or how about the whole Cycle of Strife?  

    What, do ranks qualify as PvP content now? Nothing changes from the lowest to the highest rank. PvP is dynamic content every user will have a different experience in any game.

    I've done Cycle of Strife. I've done the Rite of Exile battleground, I didn't do challenge the immortals because its only 3 people per clan and one of those is always the clan leader. If we win this weekend, our alliance will be immortals.
    Read what I typed again.


    DIablo has ALWAYS been about TWO things...  Getting loot so you can go back and play it again on a harder level... and getting loot so you can go PvP.

    If you think that the $40M was really made in month by people playing 0.5% of the game... well...  there is a saying about that but I'll just end it here.


    The content is the same, the experience is what changes. No one said those people were only playing 0.5% of the game. 
    Flaw in the argument being that when progression is a/the big focus of this type of game, the way that experience changes matters a great deal. It similarly affects that ratio quite greatly.

    Hence once more the question "What % of 10 years is 25 hours?"

    It's an absolutely massive margin of difference in play time and commitment. If we are assuming the player is playing for free, then they are not experiencing anywhere remotely near "99.5%" of the intended game experience or content.

    And if they are getting 99.5% of the content as one might argue, then that ends up just raising a different massive red flag. The case of just how absurdly thin the game's long term content is stretched and how terribly monetized it is.

    There are many other points to bring up there too, like how the shine they put on the campaign is functionally just polishing a turd. When a title has to be called good "for a mobile game", the fact a qualifier like that even exists is already a red flag about the overall experience. Having a bunch of voiced characters might be nice and shiny, but that's not going to make a mediocre story better. When the story itself is designed to be largely trivial in impact and value because it has to fit into an interim timeline, and narratively serves mostly as an excuse for the long-haul gem grind, it's an ultimately shallow narrative experience.

    We can even poke at some conversations held about prior things in the mobile arena, and how Immortal stacks up against gacha titles.

    Ultimately, it's cheeky to call the campaign and intro to endgame systems as 99.5% of the game, when it's very much designed as an appetizer to the decade long grind the game throws at players as incentive to give Blizzard money, just to try and reduce the insanity of their over-monetized core game loop.

    Slapshot1188Kyleran
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,050
    I’ll ad to the 99.5% discussion that he is both right AND wrong. After the campaign you will have seen 99.5% of the content. The trick is that in real ARPGs the gameplay loop is improving your character by repeating all of that content but with slight modifiers, in both your run and your gear. A single run through the content is pretty much the tutorial, you will have seen most of the content, not most of the gameplay by then. By taking away the improvement part after a certain point you are taking away the actual gameplay.

    I once jokingly told my non diablo playing friends that the real game was the character building and running all those rifts in D3 were merely testing chambers, with a slight chance of character improvement included. DI does away with this, on purpose.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Kyleran
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member RarePosts: 1,531
    Does quality equate to not finishing the release of your endgame content so that it looks and plays like a bad KMMO from the pre 2010's?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 927
    edited July 2022
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Sometimes we need fantasy to survive reality 
    https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
    Beyond the shadows there's always light
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,164
    If the free part 99.5% of the game is around 25hours, then .5% represents about 7.5 minutes of play.  Then Blizzard is making $40mil off customers trying to extend their play by 7.5 minutes?  How does that even make sense to someone?

    Kyleran
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    Dattelis said:
    Any particular reason why D:I can't be compared to PoE in terms of business model?
    Not if you want D:I to come out looking customer friendly in ANY way
    Kyleran
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    So this article tries to say that Blizzard wanted to give 99.5% of the game away for free, yet also tell us they made godly amounts of money in the first month...

    Those things do not compute.

    Nobody every follows up.. It's question... answer.. then amplify answer as truth.

    So sad.

    It computes just fine. Many simply find the equation displeasing.

    One can complete the game spending $0 on it, with the .5% accounting for those for whatever reason unable. That playing ARPGs past that initial completion is common to the point of near universality doesn't change that the game was completed.

    What DI doesn't well provide that previous Diablo games did is playing beyond that at no additional cost to the player, but Ybarra's argument is worded in such a way that such play is not included in his claim.

    Beyond that, the core of f2p monetization is that some will pay more than they need to and that some of those will pay substantially more. That one or indeed many don't pay for such games doesn't prevent them from being potentially absurdly profitable if the remainder of players overcompensate.
    Slapshot1188
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Brainy said:
    If the free part 99.5% of the game is around 25hours, then .5% represents about 7.5 minutes of play.  Then Blizzard is making $40mil off customers trying to extend their play by 7.5 minutes?  How does that even make sense to someone?


    It doesn't make sense, but as your argument that's on you. That's not the argument they put forth which makes no reference to the percentage of time completing an ARPG represents of the total playtime they can provide.
    Kyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    So this article tries to say that Blizzard wanted to give 99.5% of the game away for free, yet also tell us they made godly amounts of money in the first month...

    Those things do not compute.

    Nobody every follows up.. It's question... answer.. then amplify answer as truth.

    So sad.

    It computes just fine. Many simply find the equation displeasing.

    One can complete the game spending $0 on it,...
    That shows a profound lack of understanding of what ARPGs are and how they are meant to be played. They are not linear adventure RPGs with tidy beginnings, middles and an end. They are replayable forever games.

    Only someone who doesn't play them can think that they're ever "completed." They are not the kind of game where you can say "I beat the game."

    Slapshot1188UwakionnaKyleranAsm0deus
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    So this article tries to say that Blizzard wanted to give 99.5% of the game away for free, yet also tell us they made godly amounts of money in the first month...

    Those things do not compute.

    Nobody every follows up.. It's question... answer.. then amplify answer as truth.

    So sad.

    It computes just fine. Many simply find the equation displeasing.

    One can complete the game spending $0 on it, with the .5% accounting for those for whatever reason unable. That playing ARPGs past that initial completion is common to the point of near universality doesn't change that the game was completed.

    What DI doesn't well provide that previous Diablo games did is playing beyond that at no additional cost to the player, but Ybarra's argument is worded in such a way that such play is not included in his claim.

    Beyond that, the core of f2p monetization is that some will pay more than they need to and that some of those will pay substantially more. That one or indeed many don't pay for such games doesn't prevent them from being potentially absurdly profitable if the remainder of players overcompensate.
    That's a silly answer.  Seriously.  If you don't get it by now...  that's on you.
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Iselin said:
    So this article tries to say that Blizzard wanted to give 99.5% of the game away for free, yet also tell us they made godly amounts of money in the first month...

    Those things do not compute.

    Nobody every follows up.. It's question... answer.. then amplify answer as truth.

    So sad.

    It computes just fine. Many simply find the equation displeasing.

    One can complete the game spending $0 on it,...
    That shows a profound lack of understanding of what ARPGs are and how they are meant to be played. They are not linear adventure RPGs with tidy beginnings, middles and an end. They are replayable forever games.

    Only someone who doesn't play them can think that they're ever "completed." They are not the kind of game where you can say "I beat the game."


    They are both, actually.

    The vast majority of ARPGs I've played include a linear adventure with a beginning, middle, and end that I can replay to my heart's content, just as I could the linear adventure in Diablo Immortal by simply making a new character. One can beat them over and over and over again if they wish. Each time one does so is still a completion of the game just like any other than can be played through multiple times.

    Most now have ways to extend that play beyond the repetition of that linear adventure, generally through somewhat less linear play but about as much repetition. A few have that repetition spiced up occasionally with periods of variation which may or not extend to the base game depending on the title. None of that prevents the ability for one to start the game from scratch and complete it. It is in addition to that linear adventure, not in replacement of.

    My understanding of ARPGs is precise and complete, considering all aspects of them rather than being selective in my appraisal.
    Slapshot1188Kyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Iselin said:
    So this article tries to say that Blizzard wanted to give 99.5% of the game away for free, yet also tell us they made godly amounts of money in the first month...

    Those things do not compute.

    Nobody every follows up.. It's question... answer.. then amplify answer as truth.

    So sad.

    It computes just fine. Many simply find the equation displeasing.

    One can complete the game spending $0 on it,...
    That shows a profound lack of understanding of what ARPGs are and how they are meant to be played. They are not linear adventure RPGs with tidy beginnings, middles and an end. They are replayable forever games.

    Only someone who doesn't play them can think that they're ever "completed." They are not the kind of game where you can say "I beat the game."


    They are both, actually.

    The vast majority of ARPGs I've played include a linear adventure with a beginning, middle, and end that I can replay to my heart's content, just as I could the linear adventure in Diablo Immortal by simply making a new character. One can beat them over and over and over again if they wish. Each time one does so is still a completion of the game just like any other than can be played through multiple times.

    Most now have ways to extend that play beyond the repetition of that linear adventure, generally through somewhat less linear play but about as much repetition. A few have that repetition spiced up occasionally with periods of variation which may or not extend to the base game depending on the title. None of that prevents the ability for one to start the game from scratch and complete it. It is in addition to that linear adventure, not in replacement of.

    My understanding of ARPGs is precise and complete, considering all aspects of them rather than being selective in my appraisal.
    Yeah and you can take a popsicle and stick it to your forehead but that's not how you eat a popsicle.
    Slapshot1188UwakionnakitaradKyleran
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,589
    edited July 2022
    Iselin said:

    Yeah and you can take a popsicle and stick it to your forehead but that's not how you eat a popsicle.
    It's like nobody possesses the slightest bit of critical thinking...
    A company does not give away 99.5% of its game and make $40M on .5%.. in one month.

    The first run though is to hook you... sure you can decide "I'm not gonna pay" and move on.  But if you want to continue the journey you will pay up, or progress at a snail's painful pace pace.  Then there is the whole PvP portion... where you are either a minnow who is there to be eaten, or have paid enough money to be an actual factor.

    It's like none of these people ever PLAYED a Diablo game prior to this... maybe they didn't...




    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    eoloe

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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