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olepi

I came up with the term "crash and burn management" after seeing this scenario play out over and over.

1) starting a new project, A says it will take 2 years, but B says he can do it in 6 months. So upper management picks B.

Of course, it still takes 2 years anyway, so B is considered a failure. He crashed and burned.

2) for the next project, B says it will take 2 years, but now C says *he* can do it in 6 months. Upper management figures B failed, and picks C. And it takes 2 years.

It would have been better to pick B, because he crashed and burned and now has real experience. When he said it will take 2 years, they should have listened.

Anybody who can't accurately predict the time and cost of a project, will quickly gain a reputation as being unreliable. Any game designer who starts out by saying they will have it done in a year, and then after 4 or 10 years still can't say when they will be done is obviously unprofessional and unreliable.

Anybody doing that in the real world would get fired. But crowd-funding isn't like the real world.

Babuinix

Slapshot1188 said:

Babuinix said:

It's up to the consumer to do their homework about crowdfunding & game development if they want to partake in such ventures they should be aware of the risks. 

If they aren't confortable with uncertainty just stick with "finished" and "released" games.

Also CIG has a 30 day refund period.

If you want to toss out RIOT as a comp then you cant be cherry-picking what parts get compared.  It was a silly comparison to make.  For the reasons I described.

PS: 30 Day refund when a project is around a decade late... wow that's fantastic.

Ofc I can, because what's being compared is game development length, complexity and the dificulty to predict how long things will take when dealing with big ambitious productions.

The game isin't a decade late though, You put money on it a decade earlier. 

Slapshot1188

Babuinix said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Babuinix said:

It's up to the consumer to do their homework about crowdfunding & game development if they want to partake in such ventures they should be aware of the risks. 

If they aren't confortable with uncertainty just stick with "finished" and "released" games.

Also CIG has a 30 day refund period.

If you want to toss out RIOT as a comp then you cant be cherry-picking what parts get compared.  It was a silly comparison to make.  For the reasons I described.

PS: 30 Day refund when a project is around a decade late... wow that's fantastic.

Ofc I can, because what's being compared is game development length, complexity and the dificulty to predict how long things will take when dealing with big ambitious productions.

The game isin't a decade late though, You put money on it a decade earlier. 

Again you miss the point.  But carry on

Kyleran

olepi said:

I came up with the term "crash and burn management" after seeing this scenario play out over and over.

1) starting a new project, A says it will take 2 years, but B says he can do it in 6 months. So upper management picks B.

Of course, it still takes 2 years anyway, so B is considered a failure. He crashed and burned.

2) for the next project, B says it will take 2 years, but now C says *he* can do it in 6 months. Upper management figures B failed, and picks C. And it takes 2 years.

It would have been better to pick B, because he crashed and burned and now has real experience. When he said it will take 2 years, they should have listened.

Anybody who can't accurately predict the time and cost of a project, will quickly gain a reputation as being unreliable. Any game designer who starts out by saying they will have it done in a year, and then after 4 or 10 years still can't say when they will be done is obviously unprofessional and unreliable.

Anybody doing that in the real world would get fired. But crowd-funding isn't like the real world.

I wonder how many pyramid builders were fired due to cost and completion delays?

Hmm, I think they often got buried inside their failures.   

olepi

Kyleran said:

olepi said:

I came up with the term "crash and burn management" after seeing this scenario play out over and over.

1) starting a new project, A says it will take 2 years, but B says he can do it in 6 months. So upper management picks B.

Of course, it still takes 2 years anyway, so B is considered a failure. He crashed and burned.

2) for the next project, B says it will take 2 years, but now C says *he* can do it in 6 months. Upper management figures B failed, and picks C. And it takes 2 years.

It would have been better to pick B, because he crashed and burned and now has real experience. When he said it will take 2 years, they should have listened.

Anybody who can't accurately predict the time and cost of a project, will quickly gain a reputation as being unreliable. Any game designer who starts out by saying they will have it done in a year, and then after 4 or 10 years still can't say when they will be done is obviously unprofessional and unreliable.

Anybody doing that in the real world would get fired. But crowd-funding isn't like the real world.

I wonder how many pyramid builders were fired due to cost and completion delays?

Hmm, I think they often got buried inside their failures.   

My point is that you *want* those people to work on the next project. Yes, they crashed and burned, but that means they learned from their mistakes. Now when they project the cost/schedule of a project, chances are they will be a lot more accurate.

Slapshot1188

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

olepi said:

I came up with the term "crash and burn management" after seeing this scenario play out over and over.

1) starting a new project, A says it will take 2 years, but B says he can do it in 6 months. So upper management picks B.

Of course, it still takes 2 years anyway, so B is considered a failure. He crashed and burned.

2) for the next project, B says it will take 2 years, but now C says *he* can do it in 6 months. Upper management figures B failed, and picks C. And it takes 2 years.

It would have been better to pick B, because he crashed and burned and now has real experience. When he said it will take 2 years, they should have listened.

Anybody who can't accurately predict the time and cost of a project, will quickly gain a reputation as being unreliable. Any game designer who starts out by saying they will have it done in a year, and then after 4 or 10 years still can't say when they will be done is obviously unprofessional and unreliable.

Anybody doing that in the real world would get fired. But crowd-funding isn't like the real world.

I wonder how many pyramid builders were fired due to cost and completion delays?

Hmm, I think they often got buried inside their failures.   

My point is that you *want* those people to work on the next project. Yes, they crashed and burned, but that means they learned from their mistakes. Now when they project the cost/schedule of a project, chances are they will be a lot more accurate.

Well you would THINK so.  And it would seem to be common sense.  But reality is that many of these projects are led by people who have that experience... or should...or at least claim to. The lead designer of CoE as an example...  He was also the lead designer on Revival which was another "Crowdfunded" buy your real estate pitched game. It went bankrupt.

What was interesting to me was that, for his many faults, Stephen started off seemingly on the right track.  He was an industry outsider, but hired people who should have known how to make a game.  At first, his updates sure did make it seem like he was lightyears ahead of these other Crowdfunded games as far as staying on track.  Sadly, as time goes on he has fallen into the same pattern as the others.   Late, missing features, needs more money...
I'll certainly play it if it releases and seems good, but he has lost all credibility about dates and progress... so he joins the others in the SHOW ME DON'T TELL ME group.