So... Who's watching the first 2 episodes of The Rings of Power tonight?

Uwakionna

Unfortunately doesn't fare any better on the lore-front there with the appendices. Changing personalities of characters like Galadriel, changing the lore behind the hobbits (as the Harfoots are one branch of hobbit ancestor and don't predate the others), changing dwarven lore (Durin was not a hereditary lineage), etc.

I couldn't care about visual choices, but the lore they have taken liberties in creating is at odds with the lore of the original author. That's a hard bit of disrespect for one of the biggest names in creating the modern fantasy genre.

I'm sure it can be a very well produced and entertaining series, but it's going to needle people that are deep into LOTR constantly for evoking a name it doesn't respect.

EDIT: I would stress that this doesn't mean it can't be or isn't a good series. It's just one of those "It's not true to it's source."

Slapshot1188

Uwakionna said:

Unfortunately doesn't fare any better on the lore-front there with the appendices. Changing personalities of characters like Galadriel, changing the lore behind the hobbits (as the Harfoots are one branch of hobbit ancestor and don't predate the others), changing dwarven lore (Durin was not a hereditary lineage), etc.

I couldn't care about visual choices, but the lore they have taken liberties in creating is at odds with the lore of the original author. That's a hard bit of disrespect for one of the biggest names in creating the modern fantasy genre.

I'm sure it can be a very well produced and entertaining series, but it's going to needle people that are deep into LOTR constantly for evoking a name it doesn't respect.

EDIT: I would stress that this doesn't mean it can't be or isn't a good series. It's just one of those "It's not true to it's source."

Right and that is what amazes me.  They paid a billion dollars for the rights and production of a show based on this IP. The main selling point of the IP is the incredible detail and world creation that Tolkien did.  He drew maps, wrote songs, languages, thousands of years of history.  The lore literally is what sets Tolkien apart.   It is exactly why he spawned so much of the fantasy genre that followed.  

Then they take that rich and fully developed history and lore... and... "improve on it".

Sigh

But.. to be fair... I have not watched it yet.  I will at some point I am sure.  So, until I do I guess my opinion should be diluted. 

Nebless

Iselin said:

Stizzled said:

I can tell you that the amount of this story that's actually in the Silmarillion is absolutely zero..

Good thing because Amazon never bought the rights to that. They bought the TV rights to the Lord of the Rings from Middle Earth Enterprises  (now, The Embracer Group) but did not buy the rights to the Silmarillion from the Tolkien Estate,

The series is based mostly on the LotR appendices,  

For some reason a number of the articles out today about the show mention the Silmarillion, even though like you said they didn't buy access to those.

I'm going with writers not having a clue beyond; 'it's 2nd Age, that's Silmarillion right?' since most that publish now can't seem to bother to do any research on a subject before writing an article.

Mendel

I didn't watch, and I probably won't.  I followed its development enough.

LotR is one thing and it is Tolkien.  This appears to be something else, and that is Amazon.  I do not equate Tolkien and Amazon as creative talents.  It may be well made and entertaining, but it isn't Middle Earth; don't label it as such.

I wonder how many lawsuits this will bring.  The Tolkien Estate is very protective of Tolkien's works.  This seems to bend those lines in significant ways.

OldKingLog

I give the show so far a solid "meh". I don't hate it, but I'm not orgiastic either. I know they are busy establishing the characters and world at the beginning, so hopefully the later episodes will get better. But until then I just see it as someone's Tolkien fan fiction.

user298

I watched them, they were exactly as I expected from Amazon and soulless, incompetent people working there - terrible. Each and every decoration, from actor's wigs to clothes to building surfaces - looked artificially "sterile" and like it was freshly made by a local LARP club. The special effects were also extremely amateur. Just 2 particular examples:
- There's a scene where 2 characters enter destroyed wooden house with fire inside, I instantly noticed how "artificial" the fire sources looked like (not like "a natural wood burining" but like "a propane torch hidden behind rubble by special effect workers")
- There's a scene which shows certain character swimming in ocean, with a fog that quickly starts to appear around that character. That appearance looked like someone just flipped a switch of "fog machine blower" the moments before the camera started rolling.

And no, I didn't have to intentionally look for such examples, all of them were extremely noticeable throughout the whole show.

Also, the music was bad, including the mixing of it. If Amazon was serious about the show - they would've hired actual competent music composers who know the importance of eliciting emotions through music, and who would've done something like this:


(people who already watched the show will know why I selected this clip)

Dibdabs

I watched maybe 15 to 20 minutes of episode 1 and is was so crap I won't be watching any more of the show.

Sovrath

user298 said:

Also, the music was bad, including the mixing of it. If Amazon was serious about the show - they would've hired actual competent music composers who know the importance of eliciting emotions through music, and who would've done something like this:


(people who already watched the show will know why I selected this clip)

I don't think the music was "bad" at all. I do think the entire things was over scored and stood in the way of the actors.

Howard Shore wrote the theme and Bear McCrearly isn't a noob when it comes to writing music for movies.

I"ll add that your music clip feels like "pop classical." Not bad, actually very good, but it's not really the right type of music, in my opinion, for a Lord of the Rings property.

WalkinGlenn

Iselin said:

KnightFalz said:

Deathkon1 said:

Iselin said:

I usually don't watch weeklies because I like to binge a full season over a weekend but this is LotR... I can make an exception.

I can only pray that it turns out good without them bringing modern day issues into it seen enough of them doing that in the past few years for me to adopt the wait and see protocol. 

Your prayers were not answered.

Which one, being good or too "woke" for the far right? Did you get a preview like the review sites did?

"Too woke"? Any level of wokeness is too much. I mean, if the doctor tells you that you have cancer, wouldn't a little bit of cancer be just as bad as alot? Same goes for wokeness since its pretty much pure cancer. Even a sprinkly of woke is too much for anybody with a brain.

Hard pass. 

finefluff

Visually the show is impressive, but the story feels shallow, like butter scraped over too much bread. I think this could partly be due to how many perspectives the show bounces between. I didn't feel immersed like with the movies and started to feel bored. 

Some scenes were kind of dumb too, like Galadriel jumping off the sword. I don't like her accent either. It sounds like she's speaking through her teeth. She needs to open her mouth a bit. My favorite scene so far was the dinner conversation between Durin, Disa, and Elrond.

FrodoFragins

Nebless said:

BrotherMaynard said:

Amazon generally approaches their shows from the angle of "well, this could have happened - prove us wrong". They did it in all their shows I watched, like the Man in the High Castle or the Wheel of Time. What they did with the Man in the High Castle is particularly awful, the way they hijacked the whole book and added their own nonsense. It was barely recognisable towards the end of Season 2. Some may call it artistic license, I call it Amazon's bullshit - there are no artists in Amazon.

I felt the same about 'THE SHANNARA CHRONICLES'.  I love Terry Brooks and really enjoyed The Sword of Shannara so I thought I'd give it a try.

Didn't understand a thing and never could figure out which book of the trilogy it was based on.

It was based on The Elfstones of Shannara.  Considering the Sword of Shannara basically plagiarized characters and plots wholesale from LOTR, it made sense not to make that into a show.

I gave the first season a chance, even though the casting was horrendous in places and it was made for teens.

FrodoFragins

Iselin said:

Stizzled said:

I can tell you that the amount of this story that's actually in the Silmarillion is absolutely zero..

Good thing because Amazon never bought the rights to that. They bought the TV rights to the Lord of the Rings from Middle Earth Enterprises  (now, The Embracer Group) but did not buy the rights to the Silmarillion from the Tolkien Estate,

The series is based mostly on the LotR appendices,  

Actually, MEE only owned the rights to shows of 7 episodes or less.  The Estate owned the rights to 8 episodes or more and thus that's why Amazon had to make a deal with the Estate as it is multi season.

I only discovered those facts recently and it's actually pretty hard to find articles that even mention it.  I forgot to bookmark the article I found it in though.

Also, while Amazon didn't buy the rights to the Silmarillion or Lost Tales and such, it's clear they have access to some stuff not published in the Hobbit and LOTR.  That map of Numenor was not in the appendices.  Word is that they have access to what is needed to tell their (fan fiction) story, but nothing more.

EDIT: I finally was in the mood to watch them.  The first episode was too jarring for me to appreciate but the second one was pretty decent overall.  Nothing great but it showed potential as a fan fiction story in the world of tolkien.

Nebless

Slapshot1188 said:

Right and that is what amazes me.  They paid a billion dollars for the rights and production of a show based on this IP. The main selling point of the IP is the incredible detail and world creation that Tolkien did.  He drew maps, wrote songs, languages, thousands of years of history.  The lore literally is what sets Tolkien apart.   It is exactly why he spawned so much of the fantasy genre that followed.  

Then they take that rich and fully developed history and lore... and... "improve on it".

Of course I can't find it now, but one of the articles that came out after the first 2 episodes premiered stated it well I thought.

It was something along the lines of:

'creating characters and situations out of the thinnest of sources or even no source at all, allows Amazon to do what they always intended to do; create their story with the widest latitude in how they tell it.'

Nebless

FrodoFragins said:

Nebless said:

BrotherMaynard said:

Amazon generally approaches their shows from the angle of "well, this could have happened - prove us wrong". They did it in all their shows I watched, like the Man in the High Castle or the Wheel of Time. What they did with the Man in the High Castle is particularly awful, the way they hijacked the whole book and added their own nonsense. It was barely recognisable towards the end of Season 2. Some may call it artistic license, I call it Amazon's bullshit - there are no artists in Amazon.

I felt the same about 'THE SHANNARA CHRONICLES'.  I love Terry Brooks and really enjoyed The Sword of Shannara so I thought I'd give it a try.

Didn't understand a thing and never could figure out which book of the trilogy it was based on.

It was based on The Elfstones of Shannara.  Considering the Sword of Shannara basically plagiarized characters and plots wholesale from LOTR, it made sense not to make that into a show.

I gave the first season a chance, even though the casting was horrendous in places and it was made for teens.

I finally figured that out, but only by looking it up on the internet.  In spite of having read the Elfstones (and Wishsong) the story they were telling was so different until I looked it up I couldn't figure out what they were doing. 

Mendel

Nebless said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Right and that is what amazes me.  They paid a billion dollars for the rights and production of a show based on this IP. The main selling point of the IP is the incredible detail and world creation that Tolkien did.  He drew maps, wrote songs, languages, thousands of years of history.  The lore literally is what sets Tolkien apart.   It is exactly why he spawned so much of the fantasy genre that followed.  

Then they take that rich and fully developed history and lore... and... "improve on it".

Of course I can't find it now, but one of the articles that came out after the first 2 episodes premiered stated it well I thought.

It was something along the lines of:

'creating characters and situations out of the thinnest of sources or even no source at all, allows Amazon to do what they always intended to do; create their story with the widest latitude in how they tell it.'

In other words, Amazon is doing whatever they want and attempting to profit under the guise of a LotR connection.

I wonder how soon they will consider LotR versions of The Honeymooners or Casablanca?  Sacred grounds?  Trample away, Amazon.

Slapshot1188

Nebless said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Right and that is what amazes me.  They paid a billion dollars for the rights and production of a show based on this IP. The main selling point of the IP is the incredible detail and world creation that Tolkien did.  He drew maps, wrote songs, languages, thousands of years of history.  The lore literally is what sets Tolkien apart.   It is exactly why he spawned so much of the fantasy genre that followed.  

Then they take that rich and fully developed history and lore... and... "improve on it".

Of course I can't find it now, but one of the articles that came out after the first 2 episodes premiered stated it well I thought.

It was something along the lines of:

'creating characters and situations out of the thinnest of sources or even no source at all, allows Amazon to do what they always intended to do; create their story with the widest latitude in how they tell it.'

But they could have saved a big chunk of that billion dollars and stuck with "no source at all" and created something unique and cool and reflective of whatever their vision was...

Slapshot1188

FYI Bezos's own newspaper gave it a pretty weak review.  (Shows as 40/100 in Metacritic)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tv/2022/08/31/lord-rings-tv-show-review/

Reviews in general seem to be all over the place.  I just thought it was interesting to see the one from Jeff's own paper.

Nebless

Slapshot1188 said:

But they could have saved a big chunk of that billion dollars and stuck with "no source at all" and created something unique and cool and reflective of whatever their vision was...

They're betting on the LotR hook to carry it along. 

I honestly think LotRO would have died in it's first year without the IP hook to keep it going.  Without the LotR IP it's just a standard mmo with slow combat and nothing to make it stand out.

Tokken

I'll watch eventually when the first season is out and complete.

Jamar870

Looks a bit way too "woke" for me. Tolkien wanted to create a mythos like the Greek and Roman ones for his part of the world you could say. There were no dark complexed elves or dwarves in his vision.  

Slapshot1188

Nebless said:

Slapshot1188 said:

But they could have saved a big chunk of that billion dollars and stuck with "no source at all" and created something unique and cool and reflective of whatever their vision was...

They're betting on the LotR hook to carry it along. 

I honestly think LotRO would have died in it's first year without the IP hook to keep it going.  Without the LotR IP it's just a standard mmo with slow combat and nothing to make it stand out.

Right, but the hook there was actually sticking to the story.  Right?  I mean, I havent played it in a decade but I know when it launched it was chapters following the books. 

Hyperpsycrow

25 mill people watched it on prime. Imagine they all pay 3-5 Eu pr month if they dont use the free trial and cancel it after 1 week.

Thats at least 75 mill Eu in amazons pockets if all the viewers paid to watch it

Im not one of theses "sheeople" The trailer looked like shiat if you ask me. I bet it will flop before seasson 1 runs out. Thats my haggert opinion..

finefluff

Hyperpsycrow said:

25 mill people watched it on prime. Imagine they all pay 3-5 Eu pr month if they dont use the free trial and cancel it after 1 week.

Thats at least 75 mill Eu in amazons pockets if all the viewers paid to watch it

Im not one of theses "sheeople" The trailer looked like shiat if you ask me. I bet it will flop before seasson 1 runs out. Thats my haggert opinion..

I already have prime and so do many others, so it’s not all new customers watching it.

Dragnelus

I can't wait for episode 3!!!!

lahnmir

I can’t wait for a Gandalf spin-off where he, young and beardless, will be blasting baddies with lightning yelling ‘you have been Gandalfanised!’

Why, why would you pay a fortune for lore only to change it, possibly beyond recognition?

/Cheers,
Lahnmir