So... Who's watching the first 2 episodes of The Rings of Power tonight?

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FrodoFragins

blueturtle13 said:

I would be interested in a series with the Easterlings 

I was kind of hoping they would show more of the far east in Shadow of War DLC or even a sequel.

A series on the Blue Wizards and how they helped weaken Saurons power east of Mordor could be great too.  Although I guess no one would be white, I assume the wizards would appear similar to the people they were with, so maybe hollywood wouldn't OK it.

klash2def

FrodoFragins said:

klash2def said:

The people that like to say it's not about race are real funny because literally every single time a black person is added to some space yall think we shouldn't be in, it quickly becomes about race.

Look at the language being used in this thread. It's "Agenda" it's "Forced" its "woke" its always something.. Black people can't just simply exist. Our humanity is always questioned as if we are animals not human. As if we are other. You don't understand how annoying this is to always see that it's a problem to include your race.. nothing else just your RACE. That's the issue.

Thousands of posts and comments thousands of videos all white people saying my race shouldn't be part of this thing or that thing. It's not just LOTR. I saw it for the Witcher. I saw it for Mafia 3. I saw it about WoW adding actual black features for the character models. I saw it for GOT. I saw it for LOTR. The same rhetoric.

"Black people don't belong here, if you add them here, write them how we instructed you to or it's forced."

What's funny is yall still have to deal with it. It's not changing the reality. We will continue to be in spaces you don't want us to be in. 

I find it mildly amusing, as in I think you are lame, but its mostly offensive.

What you're saying doesn't deserve LOLs, but it sure seems like you assign racism to anyone that wants adaptations to be faithful to the source.  If someone tells a story of ancient china, including non asians will be immersion breaking.  

Tolkien described Elves as:

The Elves were the fairest creatures in Arda, a far more beautiful race than Men, and generally tall (seldom less than six feet for elf women, no less than six and a half feet for elfmen).Among them, those who had gone to Valinor were the fairest and had the greatest skill of body.

That description is not specific in terms of skin color.  Appendix F of the appendix in ROTK describes their skin:

They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard. They were valiant, but the history of those that returned to Middle-earth in exile was grievous; and though it was in far-off days crossed by the fate of the Fathers, their fate is not that of Men. Their dominion passed long ago, and they dwell now beyond the circles of the world, and do not return.

Elves have been pretty set in terms of appearance and I don't think they are the appropriate place to push diversity.  This portrayal of elves has permeated many fantasy IPs.

I'm much more open to diversity in terms of Dwarves and Hobbits as I don't think Tolkien ever really took the time to describe their skin tone.  Humans are already broken down based on where they are from (and yes I can see how that can be problematic.  But Tolkien didn't insinuate that the haradrim were evil based on skin color.).  

With  regard to House of the Dragon, I was surprised by the dark skinned kin of the Targaeryans.  But George RR Martin is working on the show and clearly it is a non issue to him so I have no issue.

I also don't really have an issue with race changes for say modern superheroes.  but if they say change the race of superman and place him in the racist 40's or 50's, I expect that to be handled realistically.

I agree with you in some points here, but i disagree about Tolkien not being at least prejudice towards black people. It was clear what the Harad were as far as im concerned. But at the same time, I am someone who did not wish to see a POC play Geralt, Yennifer or Triss. I didn't say they didn't belong there, i wanted them to stay true to the source but I was not against what we got simply because of their race. That's racist. 

So you see there is a big difference in language in how I communicate my dislike.

"Man I really wish they kept Yenniffer and Triss close to the games But the actors actually pulled it off so its all good"

vs

"Blacks don't belong in Novigrad because the lore doesn't support them, this is forced, woke garbage including them. The proper way to add them is blah blah"

See the difference? One is a normal criticism, the other is racist.

People in this post trumpism era act like words don't matter but they still do. Being faithful to the source can't come at the cost of excluding good actors simply because of their race. That is called racism and I called it such. If I'm assigning it to people that are saying this stuff it's because all them are posting comments upholding the ideas of racism. 

Its easier for them to paint me as angry black man victim blm blah blah blah than to admit that what they said is fucked up and should never be said. 

That's the problem. I understand the writing of Tolkien personally i think he is overrated a bit and Peter Jackson did far more for his work than he ever did but that's my opinion. He created definitely created an awesome world, i enjoy some of that world but the world is up for interpretation just like all art is. Elvis and the Beatles were an interpretation of black musicians that came before them and we love them. Nobody said they don't belong.

Its the language being used here that's more annoying than anything else about the show. 

For the record I would love to see a black superman in a racist 50s America. It's much more interesting of a concept than anything else they have done with the hero in a very long time. Good idea. 

We also have to be careful about saying "realistic" when discussing fantasy because it's easy to say something like a black superman is unreasonable or unrealistic but to whom? A black superman is very reasonable and realistic to me because it's all fake. Superman isn't real. 

Uwakionna

OldKingLog said:

Well this thread went straight to hell over night.

It's unfortunate how easily otherwise basic points get overblown, by both those fond of the subject and those not.

Sort of inevitable if people feel personally challenged by dissenting opinion towards something the feel strongly about.

Certainly not surprising given LOTR is involved, but a bit disappointing.

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

.

 Elvis and the Beatles were an interpretation of black musicians that came before them and we love them. Nobody said they don't belong.
 

Elvis did not, as far as I know, call himself Little Richard. It's fine and actually a great thing to be inspired by one's predecessors. 

FrodoFragins

klash2def said:

I agree with you in some points here, but i disagree about Tolkien not being at least prejudice towards black people. It was clear what the Harad were as far as im concerned. But at the same time, I am someone who did not wish to see a POC play Geralt, Yennifer or Triss. I didn't say they didn't belong there, i wanted them to stay true to the source but I was not against what we got simply because of their race. That's racist.

So you see there is a big difference in language in how I communicate my dislike.

"Man I really wish they kept Yenniffer and Triss close to the games But the actors actually pulled it off so its all good"

vs

"Blacks don't belong in Novigrad because the lore doesn't support them, this is forced including them. The proper way to add them is blah blah"

I'm not even sure the second example is necessarily made from a racist point of view.  I think it's fair to come into an adaptation with certain expectations on how the world and characters will look.  The racists will never come around to #1 and may simply not even watch the adaptation.  But assuming the writing/acting is good the race/gender inconsistencies will go away for most people.

On a separate note, what if instead of the "lore doesn't support it" it's "history doesn't support it"?  Is it racist for expecting not much diversity when showing Vikings or ad executives like in Mad Men?

Some people care more about their favorite fantasy world than history.  And depending on the author, those worlds may already have very detailed delineations on races around the world.  Probably copied somewhat from our own history.

I feel like the rabid anti-SJWs make it very difficult for the rest of us to express their feelings about race/gender changes for adaptations. 

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

.

 Elvis and the Beatles were an interpretation of black musicians that came before them and we love them. Nobody said they don't belong.
 

Elvis did not, as far as I know, call himself Little Richard. It's fine and actually a great thing to be inspired by one's predecessors. 

And what was the point of me saying that? You are the master of leaving out context.

Lol white supremacy got you high as hell if you think I'm about to argue music with you.

I said what I said. Amazon said what they said. Deal with it or don't watch i don't care just get off my dick man I already told you I'm married and not looking. 

Slapshot1188

klash2def said:

I said what I said. Amazon said what they said. Deal with it or don't watch i don't care just get off my dick man I already told you I'm married and not looking. 

Nice and classy.  

klash2def

FrodoFragins said:

klash2def said:

I agree with you in some points here, but i disagree about Tolkien not being at least prejudice towards black people. It was clear what the Harad were as far as im concerned. But at the same time, I am someone who did not wish to see a POC play Geralt, Yennifer or Triss. I didn't say they didn't belong there, i wanted them to stay true to the source but I was not against what we got simply because of their race. That's racist.

So you see there is a big difference in language in how I communicate my dislike.

"Man I really wish they kept Yenniffer and Triss close to the games But the actors actually pulled it off so its all good"

vs

"Blacks don't belong in Novigrad because the lore doesn't support them, this is forced including them. The proper way to add them is blah blah"

I'm not even sure the second example is necessarily made from a racist point of view.  I think it's fair to come into an adaptation with certain expectations on how the world and characters will look.  The racists will never come around to #1 and may simply not even watch the adaptation.  But assuming the writing/acting is good the race/gender inconsistencies will go away for most people.

On a separate note, what if instead of the "lore doesn't support it" it's "history doesn't support it"?  Is it racist for expecting not much diversity when showing Vikings or ad executives like in Mad Men?

Some people care more about their favorite fantasy world than history.  And depending on the author, those worlds may already have very detailed delineations on races around the world.  Probably copied somewhat from our own history.

I feel like the rabid anti-SJWs make it very difficult for the rest of us to express their feelings about race/gender changes for adaptations. 

Okay so for Mad Men it wouldn't make sense to exclude black people from being ad executives because black people are ad executives. So there is a nuiance between reality and fiction.

Vikings as they are portrayed are also fictional. But im also not crazy enough to expect diversity in that world because it's based on a real world culture. I don't mind not seeing black Vikings but again not the for the same reasons I don't mind seeing black elves.

Ad Executives, Elves and Vikings are not the same.

Elves are Fiction. Period. 
Vikings are based on Scandinavian myth. Fiction but grounded in culture which is to be respected.
Ad Executives.. lol well I mean if people think black people can't be ad executives then...you know.

Anyone can interpret Elves how they want. I've seen Elves in every setting. Shadowrun has Magical Black elves in a cyberpunk setting that use guns and drones to protect themselves. Nobody said a word. 

Again.. everything about Tolkiens works can be interpretation. This whole thing is about overzealous, racist, yes racist..JRRT fans and im not going to pretend otherwise. Nobody else should either.

All this mental gymnastics, symantics and powder wigging shit is embarrassing.

klash2def

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

I said what I said. Amazon said what they said. Deal with it or don't watch i don't care just get off my dick man I already told you I'm married and not looking. 

Nice and classy.  

Man shut the fuck up. Hows that for class?

You cherry pick my comments and leave out context to try and form your little snarky comments at me. You literally wtf lol every other post of mine and you have the nerve to talk about class...you're a joke. I've been gone for 9 months and you still have a hard on for me. Somehow you always find yourself talking to me first. I never mention you or talk about you. You always come at me with this weirdo shit. If I cause so much pain from just typing why won't you just block me? I'm not going to stop calling out the racist bullshit around here. No amount of games you want to play will change that. 

I have zero respect for you. As I said. Hop off. 

klash2def

FrodoFragins said:

I feel like the rabid anti-SJWs make it very difficult for the rest of us to express their feelings about race/gender changes for adaptations. 

The anti sjws in this thread must didn't read this part before they ran to press agree, because he is literally talking about yall lol.

The kneejerk reaction to say anything not centered around white people is "woke" and "forced". So Agree to this part too? Just wanna make sure I'm tracking!

Tuor7

Slapshot1188 said:

Ahh but what about the Earrings of Power? Why do they have to be rings?  

I suppose that they could be called the "Personal Accessories of Power".

Slapshot1188

Man shut the fuck up. Hows that for class?

Nice and classy.