Metaslavery and the irony of "skill/achievement"

Ralphie2449

In a number of recent threads people talked big time about their skill in a VIDEO GAME which they take very seriously so it has meaning to them even though it is a video game which is designed to be beaten and give you that feeling but let's ignore that point.

The vast vast majority of high end mmo players who argue about skill in video games and beating high end content, I would say likely 97% are also obsessive metaslaves which focus on the most optimal comb and strat, even at a casual high end level people where people might play a sub optimal class they will still play the most optimal build and will often discriminate against non optimal specs/builds.

You almost NEVER see high end guilds who do high enough content like mythic raid or 20+ keys in WoW that play what they enjoy and think for themselves by using the tools available rather than changing builds based on what some guide told them so. (And we are obviously not talking world first here)

Now if you call out metaslaves on being metaslaves they will say things like this "This leads to a lower failing rate and as such more respect for all 10 players time." which is clear admittance that they are using the meta to compensate for failures.

Yet when they finally beat the raid or dungeon etc they will get a feeling of success, ego and entitlement that we see many people in previous threads show with how much they are focused on video game "skill" and how that makes them "better" than casuals and more often than not, makes them feel entitled to developer resources and design direction.

But by metaslaving you quite literally turn an encounter into easy mode, if an encounter that needs average 15k dps to clear assuming mechanics are done correctly yet you demand everyone play 25k dps classes to compensate for MULTIPLE FAILURES and bad plays you are in a sense brute forcing the encounter's intended design to "beat" it and people will unironically consider themselves good players and successful for beating it like that.

This is almost always true in terms of design, an encounter is not designed around the most optimal comb, and if it has gear rewards it isnt even designed around having anywhere near the gear players will demand for their group, there is a vast space for error already by design and by metaslaving you are only making it bigger.

Which again shows a major difference between healthy and unhealthy players

-Players who seek to "win" as if they have something to prove and are desperate for external validation to the point they will play something they dont enjoy because it does 10% more damage to beat an encounter, and then come to forums telling others they are "worthy" and "deserve" superior items to everyone else.

-Players who enjoy the journey and treat it as a video game, not a source of self worth hence they play for fun, not to "win".

So not only are elitists and people who obsess over skill and achievements in video games taking this very seriously so their self worth can be based on it, they demand external validation in the form of superior items, and all that while they unironically play in easy mode and come here to argue about how their "skill" and ability in beating high end content that makes them better to others xD

WBadger

It's equally unhealthy to focus as much time and negativity into what is ultimately other peoples decisions for how they play games.  If people want to metaslave then they can metaslave.  If you're going to criticize their playstyle then you're just as bad as the "elitists," who criticize yours.

eoloe

I love your posts. Keep pumping them out. They shatter the diamond of peace using the supreme hammer of contempt +10 and wall of text +12!

Who cares about consensual discussion? We need blood in the arena, so we can empty our lungs full of rage!

Let's open the gates of the forum PvP! And put some fuel on the fire to scorch every bit of the forum database!!!

----------

Players feel entitled....... ok. People feel entitled for anything, from the discount they got to the numbers of hours they wasted in a nap. Who cares ?

Players seek to win........ Well it is game isn't it

Players by becoming more powerful diminish the challenge. Yes. And so what? This is a common RPG game design. Nothing to build a revolution against! And by the way some games (GW1) did have horizontal progression with rising difficulty in which you have to solve (not just overpower it) the encounter. So? Everything is there and not everything is WOW (or one of its clone).

However, I agree with you on one point. I don't like the meta, I always try to be creative. But we have to take in account the modern world:

- there are thousands, millions of players online

- it is very common that somebody or a group figure out things before you do and publishes it for bragging rights.

- that info will spread inevitably in the community and will logically be used. Why they would not? That is easing the grouping process and the tactic in PUGs. That makes sense in the goal achieving process.

Why ultimately it makes sense?

Nowadays every dev, every designer knows that within hours a solution will be published online. If they don't take this in account (dynamic encounters / procedural dungeon, etc), it is on them. Or they simply benefit from this. As mentioned above it simplifies players' life.

Kyleran

Someone is clearly obsessed, but it isn't these so called "elitists," whoever they may be.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Someone is clearly obsessed, but it isn't these so called "elitists," whoever they may be.

I'm over here...

Uwakionna

What's it called when one goes from grasping at straws to grasping at...whatever this was supposed to be.

EDIT: I would also point out, puzzling out how to best optimize something, be it a character, your work routine, or otherwise, just to make it easier.

That is part of challenge. Be it a relatively low end element.

Now, there can be criticism of people that are simply copying the top meta rather than learning and overcoming the meta themselves. However, you can also argue the point that people who are copy/pasting meta builds as being much more casual than hardcore.

Kind of throws the entire opening rant out of whack.

WBadger

Uwakionna said:

What's it called when one goes from grasping at straws to grasping at...whatever this was supposed to be.

Grasping at the bus doors as it leaves the rest station from excessively grasping at straws?

Ralphie2449

Uwakionna said:

puzzling out how to best optimize something, be it a character, your work routine, or otherwise, just to make it easier.

That is part of challenge.

I need to remember to use this when I choose easy difficulty for a game xD

Uwakionna

If you wanna use hyperbole, but there's a difference from learning the meta and bypassing it.

Hence there being any subject for "Now, there can be criticism of people that are simply copying the top meta rather than learning and overcoming the meta themselves."

But I'm sure you'd rather cherry pick, seeing as you even cut out "Be it a relatively low end element."

This is why I mention the importance of honesty from time to time.

cheyane

I don't think your view or opinion about this is ever going to change or there is even a possibility that any of the topics you have created on this issue will solve your current  problem with the games you have played.

You are merely just going around a merry-go-round with a few forum members who are indulging you. It won't change anything on your end. Why are you doing this?

People usually create topics because they want to discuss things and get the opinion of others and reevaluate their thinking, well those are my reasons anyway. From what I can see you have no such intention. 

Setting aside your disdain and opinion on why others play the way they do, what do you hope to achieve? Surely you do not expect people to follow your way of thinking when your several threads have proven otherwise.

If you merely want to vent and put down players and their way of playing you have already achieved this several threads ago. It does not change the fact that your opinion on this isn't shared by a majority of the forum posters who have in my opinion wasted their precious time trying to show you the reasons they think you're wrong in your opinion.

It isn't because they do not understand your points nor you belabouring them is going to change that. There is no need for your to rephrase nor re-post your ideas ad nauseam. We get it.

The_Korrigan

He's trying to convince us that he's better than the better players because he's worse.
More popcorn, please !

finefluff

For some players, the fun is in optimization. It's not just about beating an encounter. That gets boring after the first time. It's about pushing your character to the limit and seeing how fast and how perfectly you can execute your strategy. That's where the satisfaction comes from. There's also the competitive aspect of trying to outdo other players.

Slapshot1188

The_Korrigan said:

He's trying to convince us that he's better than the better players because he's worse.
More popcorn, please !

It kind of worked for George Costanza...

madazz

WBadger said:

It's equally unhealthy to focus as much time and negativity into what is ultimately other peoples decisions for how they play games.  If people want to metaslave then they can metaslave.  If you're going to criticize their playstyle then you're just as bad as the "elitists," who criticize yours.

Agreed. I never got upset they people enjoyed pve games. But it always pissed me off that those people obsessed with the PvP games I enjoyed and didn't want them to exist. They wanted all games catered to their playstyle. Just allow people to play how they want. In UO peoples playstyles were very diverse. Some people obsessed with trying to have a cookie cutter build. Some just wanted to craft and treasure hunt, others were only in it for PvP. Let each play how they want. 

Asm0deus

Sounds like a convoluted way of saying, "one man's garbage is another man's treasure" and vice versa.

Video games are a form of escapism (a mental diversion from unpleasant or boring aspects of daily life, typically through activities involving imagination or entertainment)  and we that enjoy video games use that escapism in various ways since what is fun or enjoyable is kind of like saying.......looks up at my my previous sentence

GrindcoreTHRALL

Superior breed. 71% Survival rate and currently on a 31 survival streak.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

GrindcoreTHRALL

Deathkon1 said:

GrindcoreTHRALL said:

Superior breed. 71% Survival rate and currently on a 31 survival streak.

Off Topic but what game is that lol

Its Escape From Tarkov. Its like a RPG Military SIM with progression and seasons.

olepi

I'm reminded of an old-school game: chess.

There are people who spend their entire lives trying to win championships. And there are people who are definitely better than most other players. Obviously the "elite". They are revered, crowned as World Champion, celebrated.

Some perform amazing feats that other people could never do, like playing 40 games simultaneously, blindfoled. They have to remember every move on every board, without seeing it.

And this kind of elitism has been going on for centuries. All for some dumb game.

eoloe

olepi said:

I'm reminded of an old-school game: chess.

There are people who spend their entire lives trying to win championships. And there are people who are definitely better than most other players. Obviously the "elite". They are revered, crowned as World Champion, celebrated.

Some perform amazing feats that other people could never do, like playing 40 games simultaneously, blindfoled. They have to remember every move on every board, without seeing it.

And this kind of elitism has been going on for centuries. All for some dumb game.

Who cares about chess? I won a Rock/Paper/Scissors championship in my workplace this year and even received a homemade trophy for it, that is exposed for all to see!

I am THE entitled elitist player!

cameltosis

Haven't you all realised that Ralphie is just trolling this site?

He's better at it than most, i'll give him that, but its still trolling. I mean, he's come to a niche gaming website, to a forum populated by gaming fans, in order to tell us all that the hobby we all enjoy is pointless and that we're all losers if we view games as anything other than a way to kill time.

Just add him to your ignore list and move on (unless u enjoy the forum pvp ofc, then whatever, enjoy urselves!)

Ralphie2449

cheyane said:

 Why are you doing this?

It is a great way to reveal hypocrisy and the lies people tell to themselves, that is why this thread was created after my previous thread about elitists deluding themselves they are better to the point they feel entitled to dictate design direction.

Am I expecting that I will change the minds of people here?
People who often circlejerk about how terrible new casual mmos are and how great le forced social mmos of the past that lacked countless quality of life improvements,

Of course not, but it can be used as a great example of how they react when faced with something outside their bubble, their brain literally refuses to comprehend something as basic as what I am often explaining and it isnt really a surprise from my perspective, people who have put their self worth in something as fragile as video games of course dont want to see video games as something not serious and just for casual fun because suddenly their entire self worth would disappear.
Some cant even see the illusion of challenge that is specifically crafted to be part of video games hence why they obsess so hard over skill in a video game xD

Hence the reactions we see, the point is to show to people outside the bubble, how people who take video games very seriously react to even very basic facts about video games.

You see I have absolutely no issue with video games, after all I spend a lot of time with them, difference is I dont use them as my source of self worth so basic things like "everyone has access to max ilvl item in order to do the highest numbers" is not a scary one, nor is treating being reminded that killing a video game boss that was designed to be beaten and gives you giant visual clues as to its next action hurtful, because I know how games work so I know not to consider this somekind of achievement of value and base my self worth on it.

But like I said in previous posts, hardcore gamers are not the most healthy, the very fact that they are focused on "winning" a VIDEO GAME kinda screams that from the start.

WBadger

Ralphie2449 said:

cheyane said:

 Why are you doing this?

*snip*

I'm seeing delusion but not from the supposed people "assigning self-worth to video games."

The_Korrigan

cameltosis said:

Haven't you all realised that Ralphie is just trolling this site?

He's better at it than most, i'll give him that, but its still trolling. I mean, he's come to a niche gaming website, to a forum populated by gaming fans, in order to tell us all that the hobby we all enjoy is pointless and that we're all losers if we view games as anything other than a way to kill time.

Just add him to your ignore list and move on (unless u enjoy the forum pvp ofc, then whatever, enjoy urselves!)

Or he's simply one of those guys who sucks at video games, and therefore want all games to be dumbed down to their level so they can win. That's another possibility.

Both possibilities aren't very flattering for the guy, though.

Kyleran

cameltosis said:

Haven't you all realised that Ralphie is just trolling this site?

He's better at it than most, i'll give him that, but its still trolling. I mean, he's come to a niche gaming website, to a forum populated by gaming fans, in order to tell us all that the hobby we all enjoy is pointless and that we're all losers if we view games as anything other than a way to kill time.

Just add him to your ignore list and move on (unless u enjoy the forum pvp ofc, then whatever, enjoy urselves!)

Maybe it more matter of not realizing who is trolling who?

TheDalaiBomba

Kyleran said:

cameltosis said:

Haven't you all realised that Ralphie is just trolling this site?

He's better at it than most, i'll give him that, but its still trolling. I mean, he's come to a niche gaming website, to a forum populated by gaming fans, in order to tell us all that the hobby we all enjoy is pointless and that we're all losers if we view games as anything other than a way to kill time.

Just add him to your ignore list and move on (unless u enjoy the forum pvp ofc, then whatever, enjoy urselves!)

Maybe it more matter of not realizing who is trolling who?

He can't handle being trolled, my ban is proof of that.

He's honestly just lucky the moderation here is completely report-based.