The Future of MMORPGs - 5 Features That Will Change the Genre | MMORPG.com

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The Future of MMORPGs - 5 Features That Will Change the Genre | MMORPG.com

With more MMORPGs on the market as ever before, it's easy to see that in many ways, the genre has grown stagnant. Luckily, there are changes headed our way! Here is a list of 5 features that players can look forward to for the future of MMORPGs.

Read the full story here

Slapshot1188

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers. and we certainly aren't "Lucky" it's heading our way.

maskedweasel

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Slapshot1188

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

maskedweasel

Slapshot1188 said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

TheDalaiBomba

Only about half of these are even gameplay related lmao.

That's not how you spark innovation in a game.  That's how you find new ways to nickel and dime gamers.


How many gamers would love Facebook style targeted ads in their face when they're trying to play an MMORPG?

The largest barrier to innovation in this industry is that we have a large number of mediocre to bad, Frankensteinian products being floated by predatory monetization schemes diluting profit potential for any one project.  Doubling down on that is not the way out.  Allowing the market to actually cull the weak is.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

How so? 

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

How so? 

The entire reason consumers feel slighted about losing those items is because they paid money directly for those items.  Because the genre leaned into cash shop monetization heavily despite it being a very bad deal for consumers.

Now, they want to sell us on the New and Improved™️ cash shop!

TheDalaiBomba

Slapshot1188 said:

maskedweasel said:

Slapshot1188 said:

" one thing is for certain, the ability to buy, sell, and transition assets throughout a multitude of games using the Wemix currency is nothing if not beneficial to gamers who enjoy these games. "

What the hell? Seriously? What the hell?
Using their own currency is beneficial to gamers? Simple because they can use that currency between games?

You know what other currency I can do that with? The US Dollar. And I can use those dollars to buy stuff in non-Wemix games, as well as things like food, clothing, socks.

Sorry. But this is just a bad take. Unique currency is NEVER a positive for customers.

But that currency can be cashed out for USD...

The funny thing is most games never give you the ability to move currency between games after you've spent it.

Againt, it's NEVER to a customer's benefit to have to use a unique company currency.  Never.  

When I "Cash Out" and my WeMix Bucks went up in value (whatever their currency is), will they have to report my "profit" to the IRS?   

Here is an example of how "Lucky" customer are:

In MIR4, players have the opportunity to earn money. The game uses the play-to-earn NFT system. You need to farm Darksteel and then melt it into a Draco-own utility token. To make one Draco, you will need 100,000 Darksteel + a small fee paid in Darksteel. And today we will tell you how to Cash Out in MIR4.

How to Withdraw Money in MIR4

• Remember that you can Cash Out to your WeMix wallet only after reaching the minimum amount of DRACO balance.
• By selecting DEX in your Wallet, go to the DRACO trading page. In the Sell tab, enter how many DRACO you want to sell and then click Sell.
• Now, your Draco is converted into WeMix credits.
• Then convert WeMix credits to WeMix token, the exchange rate is 1: 1.
• Click on WeMix Credit, and in the opened page choose Exchange to WeMix. Enter how many WeMix credits you want to cash out or just press the Max button for all your WeMix credit.
• After you enter the password, you will see Exchange in Progress, and then your WeMix credits will change to the WeMix token balance on the main page.
• To take the WeMix token outside of your WeMix wallet, you need to send it to the Gate.IO wallet.
• Choose the WeMix in a wallet and find Send Token, click it.
• In your Gate.IO account, find the Deposit option and in the Coin selection, find the WeMix coin.
• Then copy the QR code and paste it into the WeMix wallet.
• Next, choose Max to transfer all your tokens. Re-enter your password.
• Now in your Gate.IO wallet, you have your tokens.
• Finally, you can convert your tokens to USDT. On the Trade page, find WeMix-USDT.
• And you can cash out via GCash, sending the USDT balance to your Binance wallet and then transfer to GCash.

Yeah lucky me!

Exactly what I'm referring to.


Even if these early iterations are benevolently designed, it won't remain that way if the monetization becomes widespread.  It's a recipe for disaster, and it's a solution to a problem created by the industry in the first place.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

How so? 

The entire reason consumers feel slighted about losing those items is because they paid money directly for those items.  Because the genre leaned into cash shop monetization heavily despite it being a very bad deal for consumers.

Now, they want to sell us on the New and Improved™️ cash shop!

I don't think that's what's happening. 

There's literally a problem here. Take games like Fallout 76. People are finding god rolled items, then selling them on 3rd party sites for real money. 

People still gold sell. 

People still by cosmetics in cosmetic only cash shops and never wear those cosmetics but can't get rid of them. 

These are all real issues, two of them predated the cash shops and GACHA we have today. 

It seems these are real problems where developers proposed real solutions. Let all players do it within a system where the developer still profits, or at least isn't losing money. 

It's not the game developers that created the problem, we did. Maybe not we specifically, but gamers are the gold sellers, and account sellers and the buyers of those items. Why are we going to get mad when developers finally say "okay fine, you can do it, but we'll take a cut"

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

How so? 

The entire reason consumers feel slighted about losing those items is because they paid money directly for those items.  Because the genre leaned into cash shop monetization heavily despite it being a very bad deal for consumers.

Now, they want to sell us on the New and Improved™️ cash shop!

I don't think that's what's happening. 

There's literally a problem here. Take games like Fallout 76. People are finding god rolled items, then selling them on 3rd party sites for real money. 

People still gold sell. 

People still by cosmetics in cosmetic only cash shops and never wear those cosmetics but can't get rid of them. 

These are all real issues, two of them predated the cash shops and GACHA we have today. 

It seems these are real problems where developers proposed real solutions. Let all players do it within a system where the developer still profits, or at least isn't losing money. 

It's not the game developers that created the problem, we did. Maybe not we specifically, but gamers are the gold sellers, and account sellers and the buyers of those items. Why are we going to get mad when developers finally say "okay fine, you can do it, but we'll take a cut"

You're talking about buying and selling that was against the ToS and license agreements.

You can't act like that was part of the game's development.  There's a huge difference there, and it's not really deniable.

TheDalaiBomba

If games sell assets with real value, then they need to be held responsible as fiduciaries over the value of those items.  Because the value is completely based upon their whims.  Imagine buying trading cards, only the devs can not only print more of your card, they can change what is on your card, or simply take your card back, at any time for any reason.  Now expand that into a video game, where trading cards are items or parcels of land or anything else.

And there goes the game design.  The entire premise of these P2E dreams rests on a rather bizarre idea that everyone involved will play along with an idealized version of the system.  That's not possible.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

You're talking about buying and selling that was against the ToS and license agreements.

You can't act like that was part of the game's development.  There's a huge difference there, and it's not really deniable.

But that's just it isn't it? Even if you take out the clause in the TOS and say people can sell... the developers don't make any money from it. They still lose money. We created a problem where we cut them out. 

That's a real problem for them. Maybe not for us. 

But you can't just open the flood gates to sell everything and not have a way to profit from it. There's no way that is sustainable. 

Players have been selling accounts since everquest. Even if you take the blockchain part out of the equation entirely, there's still a valid reason for developers to want to do this, and while there are a few downsides, I think if they take the volatility of the market out of it, it would work very well for both players and developers. 

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

You're talking about buying and selling that was against the ToS and license agreements.

You can't act like that was part of the game's development.  There's a huge difference there, and it's not really deniable.

But that's just it isn't it? Even if you take out the clause in the TOS and say people can sell... the developers don't make any money from it. They still lose money. We created a problem where we cut them out. 

That's a real problem for them. Maybe not for us. 

But you can't just open the flood gates to sell everything and not have a way to profit from it. There's no way that is sustainable. 

Players have been selling accounts since everquest. Even if you take the blockchain part out of the equation entirely, there's still a valid reason for developers to want to do this, and while there are a few downsides, I think if they take the volatility of the market out of it, it would work very well for both players and developers. 

Selling accounts can be curbed in far more effective and less predatory manners than going all in on made up asset value that depends upon developers somehow balancing fun with a fiduciary responsibility towards assets in-game.  Game developers then have to balance, say, nerfing an item with the very real monetary effect that will have in the value of items purchased by their players.  It's just bad design.

Edit-- the key difference between this and players buying and selling against EULA is exactly that: devs have zero responsibility to retain any value in any account or any item in said account, because the company isn't condoning or doing the selling.

kitarad

I cannot grasp this idea that because I buy a game and then I don't make money from it I have lost something. No I am paying for entertainment and I don't want to engage in a convoluted system where I am spending my time worried about the miserable amount of money I might make. Please just take my money and stop torturing me with these bloody systems.

Oh and while you're at it just fucking design a good game instead of a good system to make money from it.

Sovrath

kitarad said:

I cannot grasp this idea that because I buy a game and then I don't make money from it I have lost something. No I am paying for entertainment and I don't want to engage in a convoluted system where I am spending my time worried about the miserable amount of money I might make. Please just take my money and stop torturing me with these bloody systems.

Oh and while you're at it just fucking design a good game instead of a good system to make money from it.

Absolutely. Most of this list is bleak.

Good AI? Sure, all for it. The rest? Who cares.

TheDalaiBomba

kitarad said:

I cannot grasp this idea that because I buy a game and then I don't make money from it I have lost something. No I am paying for entertainment and I don't want to engage in a convoluted system where I am spending my time worried about the miserable amount of money I might make. Please just take my money and stop torturing me with these bloody systems.

Oh and while you're at it just fucking design a good game instead of a good system to make money from it.

Some of us were waving this flag back when F2P cash shop apologists were still just stretching their legs.

The industry's shift towards cash shop is to blame for the attitude you describe.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

You're talking about buying and selling that was against the ToS and license agreements.

You can't act like that was part of the game's development.  There's a huge difference there, and it's not really deniable.

But that's just it isn't it? Even if you take out the clause in the TOS and say people can sell... the developers don't make any money from it. They still lose money. We created a problem where we cut them out. 

That's a real problem for them. Maybe not for us. 

But you can't just open the flood gates to sell everything and not have a way to profit from it. There's no way that is sustainable. 

Players have been selling accounts since everquest. Even if you take the blockchain part out of the equation entirely, there's still a valid reason for developers to want to do this, and while there are a few downsides, I think if they take the volatility of the market out of it, it would work very well for both players and developers. 

Selling accounts can be curbed in far more effective and less predatory manners than going all in on made up asset value that depends upon developers somehow balancing fun with a fiduciary responsibility towards assets in-game.  Game developers then have to balance, say, nerfing an item with the very real monetary effect that will have in the value of items purchased by their players.  It's just bad design.

Edit-- the key difference between this and players buying and selling against EULA is exactly that: devs have zero responsibility to retain any value in any account or any item in said account, because the company isn't condoning or doing the selling.

Why would they have to retain any value in any items at all? They set the value for the items. What you're attempting to compare this to are games that try to implement chain based tokenomics. That's not even a necessity to make these systems work. 

I think that there are a lot of people that are very shortsighted on muti game economies. 

Everyone thinks it's all about the money you get out of the game, and that's why you need the value. But that's not always the case, and doesn't have to be the case. You don't need variable prices. You don't need tokenomics. You don't even need blockchain (though it makes it easier to build if you use it). 

Games seasonally introduce assets all the time that then disappear for a long time or forever. This has been going on for a long time. 

Especially where these items are cosmetic only, there's a set asset price on these assets. The ability to sell these items, or even if you were able to burn these items for currency in another game isn't a bad thing. 

It doesn't throw off the economy 

It doesn't encourage botting 

It doesn't make items cost more or limit scarcity outside of any other game

It doesn't require additional economic factors to hold a price point

It does encourage player retention within a network

It does give players a way to rid themselves of assets they no longer use

It does give developers a way to profit from player to player sales

It does allow players to buy normally limited items they otherwise would have to wait months or years to get

And I think that we're going to see developers get there. Far sooner than we had hoped because those that were attempting to live the crypto dream have realized you can't create a bad game built only on tokenomics and have it work. The market is too volatile for that. 

But you can make a proprietary currency work with RMT and multiple games, without the problems that the crypto clowns made for themselves when crypto was on the rise and they thought they didn't need a sensible diversified monetization plan. 

TheDalaiBomba

You don't need Blockchain technology to implement multi-game currencies.  You just need multiple game developers willing to cooperate.

Blockchain does nothing to solve that last part.  And again, this argument is couched in the fact that it was developers creating cash shops that conditioned gamers to feel loss in the first place.  A problem, created by the industry, and a solution, created by the industry.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

You don't need Blockchain technology to implement multi-game currencies.  You just need multiple game developers willing to cooperate.

Blockchain does nothing to solve that last part.

Yeah, even the article says that. 

But just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. 

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

You don't need Blockchain technology to implement multi-game currencies.  You just need multiple game developers willing to cooperate.

Blockchain does nothing to solve that last part.

Yeah, even the article says that. 

But just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. 

So what you're saying is, the best way to do multi-game currencies is to use Blockchain that results in, like, a dozen convoluted steps?

Instead of, say, just creating a secure asset market using traditional security methods?  What is the benefit of including complexity for the sake of complexity in a consumer product?  If it's all on the backend and hidden, why use Blockchain unless it's cheaper than more traditional security methods?  Is that the case?  I haven't seen that argument.

DigDuggy

From the time I started going to the arcade and playing qbert, joust and the like to playing my first Atari games like pitfall, grand prix and other, I've looked forward to what was coming.  The enthusiasm of childhood has or course diminished somewhat.  Great graphics sound and such is kind of expected now.  Back then, there was more of a frontier atmosphere with these things.  

However, I still look forward to see what is coming.  Reading the forums, I think I'm the only person who looks forward to owning my own little digi-plot or lane and getting a house, farm and raise a few digi-pets.  I look forward to mixed reality, and anything else they throw at me.  Some will stick and some won't.

From what I've found, the legions or innovations aren't good or bad.  It's the implementation that determines good v evil.

Come future, I'm looking forward to you.

maskedweasel

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

You don't need Blockchain technology to implement multi-game currencies.  You just need multiple game developers willing to cooperate.

Blockchain does nothing to solve that last part.

Yeah, even the article says that. 

But just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. 

So what you're saying is, the best way to do multi-game currencies is to use Blockchain that results in, like, a dozen convoluted steps?

Instead of, say, just creating a secure asset market using traditional security methods?  What is the benefit of including complexity for the sake of complexity in a consumer product?

I think it depends on what you want to do. I think that there are chains that are secure, with SDKs that are already built to make a lot of these features work inherently so you're not trying to reinvent the wheel. 

But the argument isn't "should you use blockchain" really. The reason a lot of these "features" cropped up recently is because they were all advertised as inherent benefits to blockchain. (on top of the security, etc.) 

But it is a very difficult system to use. I've played a lot of blockchain games and only one of them made buying and selling easy.. without jumping through all those hoops. 

But if developers decide that they can do this all without blockchain, I'm for that too. It just seems like the ones that are seriously putting in the effort are the blockchain studios. 

Kyleran

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said

Let's see how lucky you are on other games...

Pay 20 bucks for a new mount. 

Decide to play a different game. Pay 20 dollars for a new mount in that game. 

You now spent 40 dollars.

As opposed to selling the asset, getting a currency that can be used in other games, and then buying that mount in the other game.

What you're looking at are the steps it takes to cash out to USDT and it is definitely confusing for some people. 

But I believe in the future it's going to be way more streamlined. In fact, other games already make asset selling much easier.

Even if you can NEVER CASH OUT the currency, and even if you take a 50% loss, a future where I can get rid of assets in one game I don't play for assets in another I do want to play is way better than having to spend tons of money in multiple games.

Sounds like a good example of an industry creating a problem to sell you a solution.

How so? 

The entire reason consumers feel slighted about losing those items is because they paid money directly for those items.  Because the genre leaned into cash shop monetization heavily despite it being a very bad deal for consumers.

Now, they want to sell us on the New and Improved™️ cash shop!

I don't think that's what's happening. 

There's literally a problem here. Take games like Fallout 76. People are finding god rolled items, then selling them on 3rd party sites for real money. 

People still gold sell. 

People still by cosmetics in cosmetic only cash shops and never wear those cosmetics but can't get rid of them. 

These are all real issues, two of them predated the cash shops and GACHA we have today. 

It seems these are real problems where developers proposed real solutions. Let all players do it within a system where the developer still profits, or at least isn't losing money. 

It's not the game developers that created the problem, we did. Maybe not we specifically, but gamers are the gold sellers, and account sellers and the buyers of those items. Why are we going to get mad when developers finally say "okay fine, you can do it, but we'll take a cut"

Point of order, almost every item in FO76 sold on external websites are illegal dupes, their original version either no longer drop or at such a low rate there's no way a single seller can have "75 in stock" of weapons none of my friends and I have ever seen dropped.

Normally when people do any activity for entertainment, golf, go to a movie, go fishing it's to enjoy themselves with little, if any though to making big money off of it.

In gaming I have no problem spending some cash, even hundreds of dollars for my entertainment as again, I've never tried to profit from time spent in game.

Reason why is simple, the minute you intentionally make it so recovering what I spent, or worse profiting from my in game activities part of the core game play loop, my entertainment turns into a "job" which I take a hell of a lot more seriously than I would want to in gaming.

I mean, I guess other gamers might relish such any opportunity to make a living from such, but as far as I'm concerned, their wants and desires can go 




Cheers.

TheDalaiBomba

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

maskedweasel said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

You don't need Blockchain technology to implement multi-game currencies.  You just need multiple game developers willing to cooperate.

Blockchain does nothing to solve that last part.

Yeah, even the article says that. 

But just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. 

So what you're saying is, the best way to do multi-game currencies is to use Blockchain that results in, like, a dozen convoluted steps?

Instead of, say, just creating a secure asset market using traditional security methods?  What is the benefit of including complexity for the sake of complexity in a consumer product?

I think it depends on what you want to do. I think that there are chains that are secure, with SDKs that are already built to make a lot of these features work inherently so you're not trying to reinvent the wheel. 

But the argument isn't "should you use blockchain" really. The reason a lot of these "features" cropped up recently is because they were all advertised as inherent benefits to blockchain. (on top of the security, etc.) 

But it is a very difficult system to use. I've played a lot of blockchain games and only one of them made buying and selling easy.. without jumping through all those hoops. 

But if developers decide that they can do this all without blockchain, I'm for that too. It just seems like the ones that are seriously putting in the effort are the blockchain studios. 

I am not for the continued pollution of game worlds with the worst parts of digital life.

Games are escapes from reality, little breaks from the mundane and commonplace.  I want games designed based on what's fun, not what coerces players to buy the most non-existent assets given value defined by the whims of developers who know nothing about asset investment.

These marketplaces are the same vein as in-game ads.  Ready Player One was not a utopia, it was a dystopia.