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Amateur Analysis: The Genre Is In Trouble!

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Iselin said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    Why is it that whenever the subject of predatory monetization in games that target children are brought up some of you always want to talk about parenting?

    It is relevant.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Nilden said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    If someone gives their credit card to a casino it doesn't matter how bad their parenting is the casino isn't going to let four year old's run around in it gambling. Let alone have the casino specifically target these unsuspecting kids with predatory monetization.

    Yet that's exactly what these gaming companies are doing they make it easy enough for a four year old to gamble online.

    Four year old children can't make any purchase without the indulgence or lacking supervision of their parents.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited March 2023
    Iselin said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    Why is it that whenever the subject of predatory monetization in games that target children are brought up some of you always want to talk about parenting?

    It is relevant.
    It may be relevant to the eventual outcome but it's totally irrelevant to the discussion of the predatory marketing practice.

    It comes across as a disingenuous attempt to give the predator a pass likely for some political reason related to endorsing laissez-faire capitalism.
    Slapshot1188MendelBrainy
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Nilden said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    If someone gives their credit card to a casino it doesn't matter how bad their parenting is the casino isn't going to let four year old's run around in it gambling. Let alone have the casino specifically target these unsuspecting kids with predatory monetization.

    Yet that's exactly what these gaming companies are doing they make it easy enough for a four year old to gamble online.

    Four year old children can't make any purchase without the indulgence or lacking supervision of their parents.
    Right and if I wanted to open a casino where parents could give me their credit card and let their four years old's come in and gamble how do you think that would go down?
    Mendel

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    caalem said:
    Runescape also upped their subscription prices not too long ago. I'd expect the major games to go up to $19.99/mo in the next year or two. New customers aren't being attracted, best way to get more money is to squeeze the ones you already have.

    Many of the people subscribed are there regardless of a price hike, look at Netflix that costs something like 5x now than when it originally launched. Also tends to have significantly worse programming overall now that many networks pulled out and their original content is 99% crap that gets canceled in a season.

    This is what I think may have been the deciding factor, back in the day the old school MMOs must have thought new players were as important as current ones so they dropped the sub only model. But if you are reasonably sure you will only get a trickle of new players, scaring them of is not an issue, especially if you have a loyal player base who will stick with you.

    Both RuneSape and Old School RuneScape are separately among the most populated MMORPGs at this time. They have no difficulty attracting players.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    NildenBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    edited March 2023

    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    "The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company."

    Exactly. This is the point I was trying to make with my last couple posts only summed up much better.
    Slapshot1188

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    edited March 2023
    They would have called it gambling and brought it under the gambling rules but the damn gaming industry has been paying and greasing pockets to make sure it won't be. All the mock hearings and supposed committees are all just for show.

    Until that happens there will never be accountability for this slimy shit.
    Mendel
    Garrus Signature
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited March 2023
    cheyane said:
    They would have called it gambling and brought it under the gambling rules but the damn gaming industry has been paying and greasing pockets to make sure it won't be. All the mock hearings and supposed committees are all just for show.

    Until that happens there will never be accountability for this slimy shit.
    I think until politicians saw this sort of thing on their mobiles or their children gambling in games they had no idea of what was going on. There was a clear divide between casino games which were regulated and other video games which did not need any regulation. Since that realisation the lobbying has been intense to slow the changes to the law down, meanwhile every studio using the like of loot boxes is looking at what they can replace them with if they have to drop them.
  • DarkhawkeDarkhawke Member UncommonPosts: 212
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Nilden said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:

    I also think that I'm not wrong about the disgusting predatory tactics, unregulated gambling with loot boxes, taking advantage of people, and every other dirty underhanded trick these greedy companies are using to make money.
    So you opine and many feel accordingly.

    I disagree in that I think that interpretation improperly embellishes the role of the provider in such things while diminishing that of the consumer.

    Such makes it far too easy for consumers to be seen as victims rather than the accomplices they are in this.
    This isn't an opinion or feeling. The predatory monetization in video games is a fact.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48925623

    Are you really going to call kids as young as four years old accomplices rather than victims?
    No, clearly from the posted link the parents were the accomplices.

    I did agree that game companies should have to send notifications of excessive spending which the buyer can set the limit for, much as my bank cards do.


    Right which means these companies targeted kids who were victims.
    They were targeting customers, they had no idea the age of the purchaser near as I could tell.

    I don't view players who spend money on games, even large amounts as victims, but YMMV.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:

    I also think that I'm not wrong about the disgusting predatory tactics, unregulated gambling with loot boxes, taking advantage of people, and every other dirty underhanded trick these greedy companies are using to make money.
    So you opine and many feel accordingly.

    I disagree in that I think that interpretation improperly embellishes the role of the provider in such things while diminishing that of the consumer.

    Such makes it far too easy for consumers to be seen as victims rather than the accomplices they are in this.
    This isn't an opinion or feeling. The predatory monetization in video games is a fact.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48925623

    Are you really going to call kids as young as four years old accomplices rather than victims?
    No, clearly from the posted link the parents were the accomplices.

    I did agree that game companies should have to send notifications of excessive spending which the buyer can set the limit for, much as my bank cards do.


    Right which means these companies targeted kids who were victims.
    They were targeting customers, they had no idea the age of the purchaser near as I could tell.

    I don't view players who spend money on games, even large amounts as victims, but YMMV.


    How about Bernie Madoff's investors? Also not victims?
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Nilden said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    If someone gives their credit card to a casino it doesn't matter how bad their parenting is the casino isn't going to let four year old's run around in it gambling. Let alone have the casino specifically target these unsuspecting kids with predatory monetization.

    Yet that's exactly what these gaming companies are doing they make it easy enough for a four year old to gamble online.
    There's the rub, a casino can pretty easily tell if a minor is roaming about the casino, and when they see one they normally address the parents who aren't in compliance with the law.

    To date there are no good ways to verify the identity or age of a customer online and there are no laws here in the States which require companies to do so.

    There also are no laws which prevent companies from marketing to children, predatory or otherwise so again, up to the parents to own the responsibility of protecting them from harm which is entirely within their control.

    Nilden said:

    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    "The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company."

    Exactly. This is the point I was trying to make with my last couple posts only summed up much better.

    Is what the company doing legal?  If so, no harm no foul until laws are put in place then drop the hammer on them say I.

    There are many activities children are legally permitted to do that I personally do not let my grandchildren do.  

    Like letting children drive by themselves at 16, that's just plain crazy talk....even my parents managed to delay me until I was nearly 17.

    :)



    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     
    Please provide the scientific proof that companies are directly targeting children (rather than gamers in general) in a predatory manner..and not just one or two odd outliers...or old articles from years ago.




    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DarkhawkeDarkhawke Member UncommonPosts: 212
    edited March 2023
    Well , the entire discussion to this point was about CC purchases , now the goalposts move to cash and gamecards ( which are purchased with cash)  unless of course we have a stupid parent giving a CC to  there teenagerto run  around with. And the phone does not matter here , because again the parent needs to buy and set up the phone and permissions on it.  

    But cash purchase is different if the teenager spends his own lawn cutting money on a gamecard to get lootboxes and that is different spending money earned is one thing and a lesson in of itself , or unless you want to say the kid is stealing cash to buy gamecards .. But in the end all these scenarios and how kid gets into them..

    Comes down to parenting. And how the kid was raised and taught .. 
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    That is because the law is a laggard. What these companies are doing should be legislated and controlled but we are not there yet. 
    IselinMendelBrainy
    Garrus Signature
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    cheyane said:
    That is because the law is a laggard. What these companies are doing should be legislated and controlled but we are not there yet. 
    " Well, the way I see it, there's what's legal and there's what's right."

    --Perry Mason

    :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Kyleran said:
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     
    Please provide the scientific proof that companies are directly targeting children (rather than gamers in general) in a predatory manner..and not just one or two odd outliers...or old articles from years ago.




    Video game loot boxes linked to problem gambling, study shows

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/02/video-game-loot-boxes-problem-gambling-betting-children

    Loot boxes linked to problem gambling in new research

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281

    Are in-game ‘loot boxes’ a gambling gateway for children?

    https://www.deseret.com/entertainment/2022/12/6/23467178/are-in-game-loot-boxes-a-gambling-gateway-for-children

    Adolescents and loot boxes: links with problem gambling and motivations for purchase

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.190049

    Loot boxes use, video gaming, and gambling in adolescents: Results from a path analysis before and during COVID-19-pandemic-related lockdown in Italy

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.1009129/full

    Study: Video game 'loot boxes' linked to gambling addiction in young people

    https://www.wtsp.com/article/tech/study-video-game-loot-boxes-linked-to-gambling-addiction-in-young-people/67-97ae4e3d-bcac-43d6-af01-6adbb5a247e4

    ASA tech trial exposes how gambling brands are targeting kids

    https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/04/04/asa-tech-trial-exposes-how-gambling-brands-are-targeting-kids

    Video game loot boxes are linked to problem gambling: Results of a large-scale survey

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0206767

    The impact of gambling marketing and advertising on children, young people and vulnerable adults

    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/publication/documents/2020-03/gambling-marketing-advertising-effect-young-people-final-report.pdf

    “Don't Gamble With Children's Rights”—How Behavioral Design Impacts the Right of Children to a Playful and Healthy Game Environment

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9108192/

    Impact of Gambling Advertisements and Marketing on Children and Adolescents: Policy Recommendations to Minimise Harm

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46302105_Impact_of_Gambling_Advertisements_and_Marketing_on_Children_and_Adolescents_Policy_Recommendations_to_Minimise_Harm

    Kids as Young as 11 Are Becoming Addicted to Online Gambling

    https://www.parents.com/kids/safety/kids-as-young-as-11-are-becoming-addicted-to-online-gambling/

    Youth harmed by addictive mechanics in video games

    https://thecampanile.org/2019/09/15/youth-harmed-by-addictive-mechanics-in-video-games/

    3 Ways Video Game Companies Are Getting Your Kids Hooked

    https://time.com/124498/handheld-video-games-kids-hooked/

    Recent UK action to protect children from online gambling and gaming-related privacy issues

    https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2023/02/gambling-and-gaming-advertising-and-measures-to-tackle-children-gambling

    Online gaming and gambling in children and adolescents – Normalising gambling in cyber places

    https://responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/documents/479/Online-gaming-and-gambling-in-children-and-adolescents_.pdf



    LAWMAKERS WANT TO REGULATE VIDEO GAMES TARGETED AT CHILDREN

    https://futurism.com/the-byte/law-ban-loot-boxes-video-games

    How a 16-year-old gamer turned into a compulsive gambler

    https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18510975/how-counter-strike-turned-teenager-compulsive-gambler

    Apps for preschoolers are flooded with manipulative ads, according to a new study

    https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/30/18044678/kids-apps-gaming-manipulative-ads-ftc

    Surprise! Kids’ apps are full of manipulative, unregulated advertising

    https://www.popsci.com/ads-kids-apps-games/

    MGM HD on Twitter Tommy Lee Jones stars in NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN one of  his most critically acclaimed performances Watch it as part of the TOMMY  LEE JONES RETROSPECTIVE tonight

    I mean come on really?


    KyleranScot

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Kyleran said:
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     
    Please provide the scientific proof that companies are directly targeting children (rather than gamers in general) in a predatory manner..and not just one or two odd outliers...or old articles from years ago.




    Enjoy: https://storage02.forbrukerradet.no/media/2022/05/2022-05-31-insert-coin-publish.pdf
    Nilden

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.

    I'm not making excuses for the company. I'm also not making excuses for inadequate parenting which is part of the problem when children are involved, no matter how much some want to downplay or ignore that element of it. The parental element is never irrelevant in anything involving their children below the age of majority.

    Monetization has and is being addressed to varying degree by differing government bodies, generally and in terms of the effectiveness of parental control. To date this has led mostly to action outside North America, but any trend in that direction has a chance of becoming more widespread which time will tell.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Kyleran said:
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     
    Please provide the scientific proof that companies are directly targeting children (rather than gamers in general) in a predatory manner..and not just one or two odd outliers...or old articles from years ago.




    Enjoy: https://storage02.forbrukerradet.no/media/2022/05/2022-05-31-insert-coin-publish.pdf
    Heck do you even need a study or all the links I posted could have just picked any game box image with loot boxes and an "E" for everyone rating on it.
    Slapshot1188

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Kyleran said:
    Darkhawke said:
    Drug use in kids under 18 is a parenting issue. So we should just ignore the dealers and focus on the parents.
    That’s the equivalent argument some are making.


    In reality, whether a parent is doing a poor job is quite a separate issue from whether these companies are intentionally targeting and exploiting kids.   Both can be true but that doesn’t mean we ignore the company’s role.
    I am not making the false equivalence you contend.

    In reality poor parental control is what allows children to have access to and spend large amounts of money on anything, and can contribute to their delinquency otherwise.
    In reality poor parenting is what allows children to have access to environments where drug use is rampant and can contribute to their delinquency.

    Again-  Meaningless.

    That doesn't mean that you do not address drug dealers/company

    Adequate parenting or lack thereof are never meaningless.

    Illegal drugs and their sale are targeted at multiple levels. The illegal sale of legal drugs is also so targeted. Neither have any relevance to in game purchases.
    I don’t think you are following the conversation.  Either purposefully or honestly.

    The parent argument is meaningless in that it doesn’t excuse the company.  And as for the drugs yes that is my point.  They are addressed on multiple levels.  We don’t just say “parents “ and excuse the source.
    Well the difference is , the parent has full control of the use/exposure  and access to The PC and CC and inputting the info approving open use. .

    For the drug comparison to be compatable , you would assume the parent is putting a dealer in the kids room and saying don't use drugs there bad and walking away.
    Nope.

    There are countless ways around that.  Maybe on their phones.  Maybe at their friends house.  And you don't always need a credit card.  You can use the ever popular gamecards which can be bought for cash.

    Then there is the FACT that teenagers can actually, you know,  have jobs.  And earn money.

    The length that some of you will go to excuse companies is kind of crazy.  Nobody I know is saying that parents have no responsibility for their kids but the ultimate root cause is the companies who are targeting those kids.
     
    Please provide the scientific proof that companies are directly targeting children (rather than gamers in general) in a predatory manner..and not just one or two odd outliers...or old articles from years ago.
    Have you watched advertising directed toward children? I don't think scientific proof is needed for that blatantly and frequently demonstrated. Determining the effectiveness of it would require so, but that it exists does not.


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    That is because the law is a laggard. What these companies are doing should be legislated and controlled but we are not there yet. 
    " Well, the way I see it, there's what's legal and there's what's right."

    --Perry Mason

    :)

    Is that quote from the original black and white TV series?

    It sounds like something that would be so.
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