The only way to revive this genre is to make play to earn games. People are broke and being laid off, inflation might seriously take off and investing is dying yet again. A 2008 market is on the horizon. You want money and players? Give players money and then charge them a certain amount of what you give them in subscriptions and the marketplace. Everyone gains and regulation polices a player base. Profile your audience.
mmorpg - you need money to play kids - do not have money adults - are being laid off and losing there investments. AI can balance math and regulate it. Seize these little opportunities and make great gains like your forefathers before you.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
The only way to revive this genre is to make play to earn games. People are broke and being laid off, inflation might seriously take off and investing is dying yet again. A 2008 market is on the horizon. You want money and players? Give players money and then charge them a certain amount of what you give them in subscriptions and the marketplace. Everyone gains and regulation polices a player base. Profile your audience.
mmorpg - you need money to play kids - do not have money adults - are being laid off and losing there investments. AI can balance math and regulate it. Seize these little opportunities and make great gains like your forefathers before you.
Good heavens no, that P2E crypto crap concept can just go DIAF.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When John Riccitiello became CEO of EA he said "I want everybody on the creative team to be accountants, understanding what anything they want to create costs" and "I want our games to be so easy your mum could play them", the executive also drives the methods of revenue like live service which effects so much of what we play. More on John later.
Well I understand the point you make here and I agree that 1 thing has huge ramifications. But that design decision in and of itself doesnt make a bad game. This is no different than Disney making kids movies and another company making horror movies. Disney "used" to make plenty of kids movies with crossover appeal.
If that is the vision, then why didnt they make a game that was amazing and appealed to that demo? Why dont we see any MMO's at all that are highly rated? I agree I probably wouldnt be a prime target for a game like that, but the Devs could still make a good game.
Either way this is just 1 studio, what are the rest doing?
It takes two to tango Brainy, AAA and AA western MMORPG's are in intensive care, but MMOs abound and rake in huge revenues. Customers have not abandoned MMORPG's they have just moved to lesser MMOs and indeed other genres inspired by MMORPG gameplay like MOBA and co-op.
I think here is why we dont agree. I dont agree MMO's are racking in cash year over year compared to years ago. All I see is new MMO's failing or losing customers left and right. I see some MMO's from 10+ years ago still existing, but only 1 FFXIV is actually growing. Nothing recently released is doing amazing. I think you are probably talking about games that I dont even consider are MMO's like Diablo Immortal (which is still debatable if that game will ever make more money than D3). The closest thing to success was 1 single game "New World" which released its 1 year expansion for FREE, no revenue from that at all, they have lost 99.8% of their customers and there is a big question whether they will ever release an expansion they can monetize for a profit.
So tell me in 2022 or 2023 what MMO released that is doing so great, I am curious what you are even talking about.
Yes, I am talking about MMO-like games when I say there are "MMOs" doing well like GI, not proper MMORPG's. As Kyerlan has just posted this he is saving me time:
"Your mistake is thinking the executives who created games have any desire to preserve or increase the popularity of MMORPGs, they are mostly interested in making big money in the "genre" of video gaming."
Everything I said should be telling you that the changes in the number and past experience of the executives means they are going for the money Brainy. If big AAA MMORPG's were seen as the best way to do that they would be all over the genre. But they are not, that's why the genre is in the bad way we find it.
Don't know about you, but my friends and I used to play Axis & Allies, a big step up from Stratego.
We did everything from A&A to WW2 war games, through to Dune and Buck Rogers in the 25th Century:
an the big disappointment Wilma wasn't in the box... xD
The games the OP wants exist, but people don't want to actual play them. They would rather make big elongated "im so smart" post then download the games.
Nope, they don't exist.
Shroud of the Avatar, Embers Adrift, Saga of Ryzom, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest 2
Seems to me that if they found enjoyment with those listed games, they'd be playing them. Maybe that's just me?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know one thing I took from that article, is I can see the wave of the future and it really saddens me. Everything is going to go to these platforms, EA play, Xbox Gamepass. All these big companies are going to have a version and they are going to farm out to eachother just like Netfix, Disney etc...
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
You know one thing I took from that article, is I can see the wave of the future and it really saddens me. Everything is going to go to these platforms, EA play, Xbox Gamepass. All these big companies are going to have a version and they are going to farm out to eachother just like Netfix, Disney etc...
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
Geez I am not looking forward to what is coming.
Online video gaming in general did not go in the direction I had hoped for so long ago when I first discovered the MMORPG genre.
I had thought they would build more in the "living in a virtual world" direction but from my observation the online world went more for being just "games people play" which it's pretty clear a majority of players favor.
Over 20 years ago I shared my new love of Lineage 1 with a gamer friend. He enthusiastically gave it a try but in just a few days someone killed the dog I had given him, an unfortunate loophole in the PVE ruleset server we were in.
He quit shortly afterwards saying he had no interest in living in a virtual world, real life kept him busy enough.
Also he was completely turned off in finding out there were gamerYs in the world who went out of their way to grief other players for no profit or reward outside of the "joy" of causing others pain.
Totally understood his 2nd point, but I went on to play on many MMORPGS PVP servers, including L1, L2, DAOC, SB, WOW, AofC, (the "real" one), AA, and of course, 10 years on EVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Shroud of the Avatar, Embers Adrift, Saga of Ryzom, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest 2
Seems to me that if they found enjoyment with those listed games, they'd be playing them. Maybe that's just me?
Yes, SoR, DAoC, EQ, EQ2... They were good games back in the day (the others you mentioned are barely worth mentioning imo).
Now though these are clunky, bloated, got dumbed down, and the frontend (graphics, animations, etc) are all old and outdated by modern standards. They shouldn't have just gone crazy adding features and changing the core mechanics or the balance of these mechanics. What they should have done is treated the core mechanics as "the game" and focused on adding lots of great content instead.
So what I'm really saying, is that the core mechanics of some of these older games are solid, and shouldn't have really changed. The core mechanics is a large component to what made the games fun in the first place. I'm saying I think they got this part right!
What we need is just use modern tech to make it not clunky, and have some prettier graphics too, to capture interest from non-oldschool types.
Also, potentially add in other oldschool mechanics. Maybe an MMORPG game with roguelite features? These older MMORPG's already had some of these anyway though.
Not roguelite but lets take a feature from EQ or UO, things more common in oldschool games... When you died, your gear would sit on your corpse, if you didn't recover your corpse... Bye gear!
That might sound horrible to the modern easy mode gamer. You'd be surprised though how fun that can be. It can really give a thrill. When balanced well, it can be a scary, but create very memorable intense experiences.
Lets take another one that I liked from Darkfall which added on to that thrill. Searching for chests... Dig up a chest with tons of loot and you have to run it back super far to stash it... You had people on your ass trying to take you out and it was a thrilling experience.
What about having a world where there could be high level monsters down the road or around the corner. Again, another thrill as you know you are definitely not always safe like in modern games unless you are cosy in a town.
It's these "kinds" of oldschool mechanics that I like, and I think many others like it too (look at dark souls, dark and darker, hades, binding of isaac...), even if they don't actually think they would. When you say to a modern gamer "once you die you lose your gear", they automatically think that is a horrible mechanic... "Why would I want to lose my gear they say!"... Actually it gives them a psychological thrill they never expected.
What I see out of these oldschool core features, is causing a more careful immersive experience, less systems that bloat the game and show it is just a "game" but instead a world to get immersed into, giving worth to gear you obtain and wear by having risk vs reward, and these mechanics providing more intense memorable experiences too.
I think unfortunately there haven't been enough people to trust that what I'm saying is true. But I think other genre's are actually proving this is infact true as there is a trend back to these more oldschool features. We just need some people to move it to the MMORPG genre and break the current easy mode mold and focus on these core mechanics, instead of attempting to create a huge MMORPG with tons of features out of the gate, attempting to copy the dumbed down easy mode MMORPG formula, and attempt to make an MMORPG with features of ones that already have years of development gone into them.
Post edited by Graveblade on
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
Don't know about you, but my friends and I used to play Axis & Allies, a big step up from Stratego.
We did everything from A&A to WW2 war games, through to Dune and Buck Rogers in the 25th Century:
an the big disappointment Wilma wasn't in the box... xD
The games the OP wants exist, but people don't want to actual play them. They would rather make big elongated "im so smart" post then download the games.
Nope, they don't exist.
Shroud of the Avatar, Embers Adrift, Saga of Ryzom, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest 2
Seems to me that if they found enjoyment with those listed games, they'd be playing them. Maybe that's just me?
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
You know one thing I took from that article, is I can see the wave of the future and it really saddens me. Everything is going to go to these platforms, EA play, Xbox Gamepass. All these big companies are going to have a version and they are going to farm out to eachother just like Netfix, Disney etc...
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
Geez I am not looking forward to what is coming.
Online video gaming in general did not go in the direction I had hoped for so long ago when I first discovered the MMORPG genre.
I had thought they would build more in the "living in a virtual world" direction but from my observation the online world went more for being just "games people play" which it's pretty clear a majority of players favor.
Over 20 years ago I shared my new love of Lineage 1 with a gamer friend. He enthusiastically gave it a try but in just a few days someone killed the dog I had given him, an unfortunate loophole in the PVE ruleset server we were in.
He quit shortly afterwards saying he had no interest in living in a virtual world, real life kept him busy enough.
Also he was completely turned off in finding out there were gamerYs in the world who went out of their way to grief other players for no profit or reward outside of the "joy" of causing others pain.
Totally understood his 2nd point, but I went on to play on many MMORPGS PVP servers, including L1, L2, DAOC, SB, WOW, AofC, (the "real" one), AA, and of course, 10 years on EVE.
That's the thing, when games are made with broader audiences in mind (and nothing wrong with that) they are going to be made for people who want to play a "quick" game.
They aren't going to want "worlds" and they definitely aren't going to want a "2nd job" in a video game.
Game "worlds" are possible but we're just going to have to settle for indy game devs who may or may not have a lot of experience, who are working on passion projects and who aren't going to be able to have cutting edge "anything."
I really admire the developers for Gloria Victus. I realize the game isn't for everyone and it's far from perfect but they created AND launched the game they wanted to make. And yes, it took time to do. That's what happens with small under funded developer teams.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Games like Mortal Online or Gloria Victus do exist.
It's just that not going the "standard" route takes way more time and/or a release in an unperfect state. And here it is just our own fault, because we demand a Ferrari, but want to pay a Volkswagen Golf. (which ist built on the same platform as many other cars in the concern) You can imagine what happens if you build a Ferrari for the cost of a Golf.
But here the Ferrari can be enhanced while you are driving it. You just have to give him a chance
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
Not sure why you are attacking me... You are basically calling me a liar which is pretty insulting.
Also, you are responding to someone else when I have already explained in-depth that they are not what I'm actually talking about. I'm talking about new games with a modern frontend that have some oldschool mechanics. I have also played the ones you mentioned all a ton already, I have gone back multiple times.
Just seems like you want to troll tbh, and purposely ignore my points.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
Not sure why you are attacking me... You are basically calling me a liar which is pretty insulting.
Also, you are responding to someone else when I have already explained in-depth that they are not what I'm actually talking about. I'm talking about new games with a modern frontend that have some oldschool mechanics. I have also played the ones you mentioned all a ton already, I have gone back multiple times.
Just seems like you want to troll tbh, and purposely ignore my points.
I kind of thinking like the guy on the reply.
When people on this forum say they want something, what they mean is they want a high budget game "which is actually popular", on top of what they want.
There are tones of low budget mmorpg very few people play and none of them play like the high budget popular themepark game.
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
Not sure why you are attacking me... You are basically calling me a liar which is pretty insulting.
Also, you are responding to someone else when I have already explained in-depth that they are not what I'm actually talking about. I'm talking about new games with a modern frontend that have some oldschool mechanics. I have also played the ones you mentioned all a ton already, I have gone back multiple times.
Just seems like you want to troll tbh, and purposely ignore my points.
I kind of thinking like the guy on the reply.
When people on this forum say they want something, what they mean is they want a high budget game "which is actually popular", on top of what they want.
There are tones of low budget mmorpg very few people play and none of them play like the high budget popular themepark game.
Unfortunately though, and maybe this is due to a language barrier, some people do not seem to really read what is said and just make a keyboard warrior response. It is quite obvious because what was said doesn't actually apply to what I said in my original post, or the further responses I made. Playing these old games is literally besides the point and doesn't apply. And there are very few newer games that apply also.
I'm talking about creating new ones using mechanics that are common in older games. The mechanics used don't even have to be taken from MMORPG's themselves. It could be taken from other genre. One thing great about games is they are creative... you can do whatever you want. You don't HAVE to follow the generic formula. And infact a lot of the time it is the people that don't, who create the best games.
Sure there are older MMORPG's which have some of these features I mention, that is where they originated, but as I said which was ignored, they are also old, clunky, don't have more modern graphics, don't utilize some networking tech that has improved since these old MMORPG's came out, and have already been played to death by most fans of MMORPG's. So saying just go play the old ones is a dumb thing to say and besides the entire point of what I am saying. In fact, that person is detrimental to the genre as a whole by saying such things.
There are lots of new indie games doing exactly what I'm saying but it hasn't yet translated to MMORPG's.
This even includes the vast majority of smaller indie MMORPG's. They still mostly all copy the generic formulas. Crowfall is a great example, it tried something different but the vast majority of its mechanics were just like modern MMORPG's. Companies are unable to see beyond the current meta, the current formula. You only really have very few that have broken the meta, like Mortal Online 2, and Pantheon for example. Not all these games are going to be to everyones taste, it depends how they implement it and many won't do too well, but that doesn't mean one or some can't be great and industry changing.
Someone eventually I think will create one which will have a really decent population just because they tuned some older style mechanics really well. I already explained why I think it can be successful earlier on in the thread.
Like I said, the rest of the industry is already showing this to be the case.
Post edited by Graveblade on
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
You know one thing I took from that article, is I can see the wave of the future and it really saddens me. Everything is going to go to these platforms, EA play, Xbox Gamepass. All these big companies are going to have a version and they are going to farm out to eachother just like Netfix, Disney etc...
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
Geez I am not looking forward to what is coming.
Same for me. I looked into X-Box Gamepass but noticed the lack of Madden NFL listed. Looking further, I think that one needed to get BOTH the Gamepass and EA's service and link them in order to play. I may mistaken on this but it factored majorly into my decision to skip Gamepass.
Another factor was they had only the past years of Madden listed, not the one's I enjoy like Madden 10 and Madden 11. Plus, I have a 360, not a SeriesX
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Don't know about you, but my friends and I used to play Axis & Allies, a big step up from Stratego.
We did everything from A&A to WW2 war games, through to Dune and Buck Rogers in the 25th Century:
an the big disappointment Wilma wasn't in the box... xD
The games the OP wants exist, but people don't want to actual play them. They would rather make big elongated "im so smart" post then download the games.
Nope, they don't exist.
Shroud of the Avatar, Embers Adrift, Saga of Ryzom, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest 2
Seems to me that if they found enjoyment with those listed games, they'd be playing them. Maybe that's just me?
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
I don't see that, but which MMORPGs meet his wants, exactly? I know LOTS of MMORPGs that I play on occasion (Wizard101, private servers of old MMORPGs), but I do not play them everyday, as I used to do with EQ 1, CoH, WoW, and others.
Just because YOU can make a "list of games" that YOU read as meeting a players' "wants", does NOT necessarily make a good match. I still see it as "If a player enjoys playing a game, they will play it." Again, maybe this is just me?
PS: Just to say, but some will run and jump to this, I would LOVE to find an MMORPG that would entice me to play it for years on end. I don't HATE any one of the current (or old) MMOs. They just do not entice me to log in day after day. I have NO disdain for players that DO find fun and enjoyment with their MMOs
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
You know one thing I took from that article, is I can see the wave of the future and it really saddens me. Everything is going to go to these platforms, EA play, Xbox Gamepass. All these big companies are going to have a version and they are going to farm out to eachother just like Netfix, Disney etc...
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
Geez I am not looking forward to what is coming.
Online video gaming in general did not go in the direction I had hoped for so long ago when I first discovered the MMORPG genre.
I had thought they would build more in the "living in a virtual world" direction but from my observation the online world went more for being just "games people play" which it's pretty clear a majority of players favor.
Over 20 years ago I shared my new love of Lineage 1 with a gamer friend. He enthusiastically gave it a try but in just a few days someone killed the dog I had given him, an unfortunate loophole in the PVE ruleset server we were in.
He quit shortly afterwards saying he had no interest in living in a virtual world, real life kept him busy enough.
Also he was completely turned off in finding out there were gamerYs in the world who went out of their way to grief other players for no profit or reward outside of the "joy" of causing others pain.
Totally understood his 2nd point, but I went on to play on many MMORPGS PVP servers, including L1, L2, DAOC, SB, WOW, AofC, (the "real" one), AA, and of course, 10 years on EVE.
That's the thing, when games are made with broader audiences in mind (and nothing wrong with that) they are going to be made for people who want to play a "quick" game.
They aren't going to want "worlds" and they definitely aren't going to want a "2nd job" in a video game.
Game "worlds" are possible but we're just going to have to settle for indy game devs who may or may not have a lot of experience, who are working on passion projects and who aren't going to be able to have cutting edge "anything."
I really admire the developers for Gloria Victus. I realize the game isn't for everyone and it's far from perfect but they created AND launched the game they wanted to make. And yes, it took time to do. That's what happens with small under funded developer teams.
So true. I am finding my "open worlds" in single player games these days. Valhiem, Mist Survival (unable to et far here lol), Humankind, and Paradox games like Stellaris and Europa Universalis. I used to find this kinds of gameplay with MMPRPGs
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
So true. I am finding my "open worlds" in single player games these days. Valhiem, Mist Survival (unable to et far here lol), Humankind, and Paradox games like Stellaris and Europa Universalis. I used to find this kinds of gameplay with MMPRPGs
I'm finding the things I like usually in survival games these days, or roguelikes/roguelites. They have these mechanics similar to what the older MMORPG's had, like losing loot on death etc etc. Usually more thrill and atmosphere.
I don't really see any reason why they can't exist in newer MMORPG's... It is just I think that no one has hit the spot yet.
It would be cool perhaps to have something which is more of a hybrid where it is a fair bit larger than a survival game so there are lots of players, contains the same type of thrill and difficulty, and open world, but isn't as giant as others at the beginning. The development afterwards if successful would go into content creation rather than needing to tweak much of the game or adding on feature after feature (because it is the core mechanics, the core game, that actually matters and creates the thrill).
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
So true. I am finding my "open worlds" in single player games these days. Valhiem, Mist Survival (unable to et far here lol), Humankind, and Paradox games like Stellaris and Europa Universalis. I used to find this kinds of gameplay with MMPRPGs
I'm finding the things I like usually in survival games these days, or roguelikes/roguelites. They have these mechanics similar to what the older MMORPG's had, like losing loot on death etc etc. Usually more thrill and atmosphere.
I don't really see any reason why they can't exist in newer MMORPG's... It is just I think that no one has hit the spot yet.
It would be cool perhaps to have something which is more of a hybrid where it is a fair bit larger than a survival game so there are lots of players, contains the same type of thrill and difficulty, and open world, but isn't as giant as others at the beginning. The development afterwards if successful would go into content creation rather than needing to tweak much of the game or adding on feature after feature (because it is the core mechanics, the core game, that actually matters and creates the thrill).
I had thought New World might be that larger sized survival game which approached MMORPG scale in terms of content and players, but not really the case.
They sort of walked back from most of the more fun survival elements like personal house or camp building, useful crafting, gathering materials which serve good use (stone gathering and refining is such a waste)
The technical challenge yet to be solved IMO is how to provide a Fallout 76 level of camp building in a large scale MMORPG without creating terrible urban sprawl or slums and without having everything totally instanced?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm finding the things I like usually in survival games these days, or roguelikes/roguelites. They have these mechanics similar to what the older MMORPG's had, like losing loot on death etc etc. Usually more thrill and atmosphere.
I don't really see any reason why they can't exist in newer MMORPG's... It is just I think that no one has hit the spot yet.
It would be cool perhaps to have something which is more of a hybrid where it is a fair bit larger than a survival game so there are lots of players, contains the same type of thrill and difficulty, and open world, but isn't as giant as others at the beginning. The development afterwards if successful would go into content creation rather than needing to tweak much of the game or adding on feature after feature (because it is the core mechanics, the core game, that actually matters and creates the thrill).
Pay to play gives you that sense of full loot upon death experience. Enter the crypto game sphere if you're in the mood for a deep fetish PvP/RPG punishment experience. Your emo these days towards gaming and I get it. You want the forced punishments of long ago. You want hunger games and to journey through a sandbox with zero instructions. You want to fail constantly at figuring things out just so that when you do figure it out it feels extra special. Might I suggest:PlayToEarn. There is a ton of thrill-seeking full loot crypto in that link. What better way to punish yourself until something better comes along. Like for instance, Camelot Unchained.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
A game where it is harder to see at night, where you get the atmosphere of a survival game.
Shroud of the Avatar, Mortal 2, Gloria Victis
A game where you don't see people running around everywhere following quest markers.
Shroud of the Avatar, Mortal 2, Gloria Victis
A game that doesn't have ui everywhere making you know for sure you are just playing a game.
Every game has a ui off
A game that actually has some difficulty, there is proper risk vs reward.
Shroud of the Avatar, Mortal 2, Gloria Victis
A game where certain items are incredibly rare.
Crafting Rare ? World Rare ? Raid rare ?
A game where crafting actually matters and being a master is rare and respected.
Shroud of the Avatar, Mortal 2, Gloria Victis
A game where certain skills are hard to attain and valued if you go down that particular route.
No game will ever have this. Time doesn't equal difficulty
A game which is open and not on rails, this is what a proper RPG should be like in my opinion, as it isn't an arcade game.
Shroud of the Avatar, Mortal 2, Gloria Victis
Pantheon will hit some of that list. My last comment on thread. games exsist.
You just quoted 3 games that have major flaws and/or no playerbase and haven't been very successful. There are reasons for this... It is because they are unfortunately not actually that good for a variety of reasons which I could explain, but shouldn't have to.
If they were, there would be more people playing them. Simple as that. Also, I'm saying there is way more scope to create many more MMORPG's with these mechanics I mentioned, that could be very succesful.
If you don't believe so, you are literally one of the people that can't see beyond the current formula imo.
If you start saying these games are not popular "because of the oldschool mechanics". Give me some good arguments and I will take you seriously (though you can't use that argument anyway, because the gaming industry is already proving you wrong!). Otherwise, go away silly troll.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I'm finding the things I like usually in survival games these days, or roguelikes/roguelites. They have these mechanics similar to what the older MMORPG's had, like losing loot on death etc etc. Usually more thrill and atmosphere.
I don't really see any reason why they can't exist in newer MMORPG's... It is just I think that no one has hit the spot yet.
It would be cool perhaps to have something which is more of a hybrid where it is a fair bit larger than a survival game so there are lots of players, contains the same type of thrill and difficulty, and open world, but isn't as giant as others at the beginning. The development afterwards if successful would go into content creation rather than needing to tweak much of the game or adding on feature after feature (because it is the core mechanics, the core game, that actually matters and creates the thrill).
Pay to play gives you that sense of full loot upon death experience. Enter the crypto game sphere if you're in the mood for a deep fetish PvP/RPG punishment experience. Your emo these days towards gaming and I get it. You want the forced punishments of long ago. You want hunger games and to journey through a sandbox with zero instructions. You want to fail constantly at figuring things out just so that when you do figure it out it feels extra special. Might I suggest:PlayToEarn. There is a ton of thrill-seeking full loot crypto in that link. What better way to punish yourself until something better comes along. Like for instance, Camelot Unchained.
No thanks. I'll wait for non pay to play and non crypto games.
Post edited by Graveblade on
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
So true. I am finding my "open worlds" in single player games these days. Valhiem, Mist Survival (unable to et far here lol), Humankind, and Paradox games like Stellaris and Europa Universalis. I used to find this kinds of gameplay with MMPRPGs
I'm finding the things I like usually in survival games these days, or roguelikes/roguelites. They have these mechanics similar to what the older MMORPG's had, like losing loot on death etc etc. Usually more thrill and atmosphere.
I don't really see any reason why they can't exist in newer MMORPG's... It is just I think that no one has hit the spot yet.
It would be cool perhaps to have something which is more of a hybrid where it is a fair bit larger than a survival game so there are lots of players, contains the same type of thrill and difficulty, and open world, but isn't as giant as others at the beginning. The development afterwards if successful would go into content creation rather than needing to tweak much of the game or adding on feature after feature (because it is the core mechanics, the core game, that actually matters and creates the thrill).
I look at a game like 7 Days to Die...Exploring a 13 story building filled with zombies and danger all over the place...That would be fun with other people (If I didnt have to worry about them killing me too)
Comments
mmorpg - you need money to play
kids - do not have money
adults - are being laid off and losing there investments.
AI can balance math and regulate it.
Seize these little opportunities and make great gains like your forefathers before you.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Your mistake is thinking the executives who created games have any desire to preserve or increase the popularity of MMORPGs, they are mostly interested in making big money in the "genre" of video gaming."
Everything I said should be telling you that the changes in the number and past experience of the executives means they are going for the money Brainy. If big AAA MMORPG's were seen as the best way to do that they would be all over the genre. But they are not, that's why the genre is in the bad way we find it.
Seems to me that if they found enjoyment with those listed games, they'd be playing them. Maybe that's just me?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Apparently one of their indie partners recently hit it big with a game called "It Takes Two" which passed the 10M sales mark.
No mention of course of any developer in their stable trying to create a new MMORPG, just too expensive I'm thinking.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-originals-we-are-moving-away-from-niche
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This means there is going to be a bunch of trash titles just for content for these platforms. Quality is going to continue to tank. We are going to have to deal with at least a decade of this nonsense.
Instead of making quality titles, they have decided to just bundle a bunch of trash together. All they will do is release 1 title occassionally to keep peoples monthly subs flowing in, and the rest is trash.
Geez I am not looking forward to what is coming.
I had thought they would build more in the "living in a virtual world" direction but from my observation the online world went more for being just "games people play" which it's pretty clear a majority of players favor.
Over 20 years ago I shared my new love of Lineage 1 with a gamer friend. He enthusiastically gave it a try but in just a few days someone killed the dog I had given him, an unfortunate loophole in the PVE ruleset server we were in.
He quit shortly afterwards saying he had no interest in living in a virtual world, real life kept him busy enough.
Also he was completely turned off in finding out there were gamerYs in the world who went out of their way to grief other players for no profit or reward outside of the "joy" of causing others pain.
Totally understood his 2nd point, but I went on to play on many MMORPGS PVP servers, including L1, L2, DAOC, SB, WOW, AofC, (the "real" one), AA, and of course, 10 years on EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then the op doesn't actually want to play what they wrote about.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's just that not going the "standard" route takes way more time and/or a release in an unperfect state.
And here it is just our own fault, because we demand a Ferrari, but want to pay a Volkswagen Golf. (which ist built on the same platform as many other cars in the concern)
You can imagine what happens if you build a Ferrari for the cost of a Golf.
But here the Ferrari can be enhanced while you are driving it.
You just have to give him a chance
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
I kind of thinking like the guy on the reply.
When people on this forum say they want something, what they mean is they want a high budget game "which is actually popular", on top of what they want.
There are tones of low budget mmorpg very few people play and none of them play like the high budget popular themepark game.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
They sort of walked back from most of the more fun survival elements like personal house or camp building, useful crafting, gathering materials which serve good use (stone gathering and refining is such a waste)
The technical challenge yet to be solved IMO is how to provide a Fallout 76 level of camp building in a large scale MMORPG without creating terrible urban sprawl or slums and without having everything totally instanced?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
No thanks. I'll wait for non pay to play and non crypto games.
I look at a game like 7 Days to Die...Exploring a 13 story building filled with zombies and danger all over the place...That would be fun with other people (If I didnt have to worry about them killing me too)