So yes, you are still a Templar or Dragonknight. Choosing not to use your class abilities doesn't negate your class.
It totally does negate it.
I'm an Archer or a Spellsword or a Battlemage or a Ranger. I am the class I build.
Is this the way you are IRL? If your doctor was once a waiter do you think of him as a waiter?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
Oh my lmfao , you understand that you have TO BUILD THE CLASS THRU PROPER SKILL SELECTION TO GAIN ACCESS TO FIGHTERS GUILD .
It was made clear on my post. So to become a member of the Warriors Guild , you must build the Warrior Class .
Can't explain it any simpler . If you have not BUILT A WARRIOR CLASS YOU DONT GET IN.
So yes, you are still a Templar or Dragonknight. Choosing not to use your class abilities doesn't negate your class.
It totally does negate it.
I'm an Archer or a Spellsword or a Battlemage or a Ranger. I am the class I build.
Is this the way you are IRL? If your doctor was once a waiter do you think of him as a waiter?
It does not negate it, and I explained logically why this is so.
Your class is immutable. Everyone has one in ESO, and only one.
However, in ESO one's build is quite variable as there are many sources of abilities other than class that can be chosen by any character.
You can call yourself whatever you want, but if part of what you want is to have a constant bear companion, like a Ranger might, your class has to be Warden as no other will provide it.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
Oh my lmfao , you understand that you have TO BUILD THE CLASS THRU PROPER SKILL SELECTION TO GAIN ACCESS TO FIGHTERS GUILD .
It was made clear on my post. So to become a member of the Warriors Guild , you must build the Warrior Class .
Can't explain it any simpler . If you have not BUILT A WARRIOR CLASS YOU DONT GET IN.
Hope this helps , I feel it wont
I understand that to enter the guilds needs proper skill selection. Entry does not require proper class selection as UO has no proper classes.
You can pick any of the so called classes at character creation and then later develop your character so that it can gain the needed skill masteries to enter any guild.
This is so because they are nothing more than skill bundles, and once at skill cap you can learn new skills by setting those already raised to decrease.
Doing so is inefficient so it is better to start out with the skills related to your long-term goals but if you fail to do that or are ultimately unhappy with your choices the UO skill system allows one to recover from that.
What you've made clear is you don't understand that UO is all about skills and nothing about class. The so called classes are nothing but starting skill bundles, and no matter which you choose you can ultimately ditch any to all of the skills in that bundle in favour of something else.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
You can absolutely make classes in UO complete in build/lore and flavor , actually to join Fighters guild Thieves guild Mages etc you Must make certain skill masteries for ex to gain acceptance there also is entire overarching quest lines to support these choices that you must complete .
Did it not occur to you that guild entrance requirements of certain skill masteries was due to UO being a skill based system? It's not like they could have placed class restrictions on entry, seeing as there wasn't any.
Oh my lmfao , you understand that you have TO BUILD THE CLASS THRU PROPER SKILL SELECTION TO GAIN ACCESS TO FIGHTERS GUILD .
It was made clear on my post. So to become a member of the Warriors Guild , you must build the Warrior Class .
Can't explain it any simpler . If you have not BUILT A WARRIOR CLASS YOU DONT GET IN.
Hope this helps , I feel it wont
I understand that to enter the guilds needs proper skill selection. Entry does not require proper class selection as UO has no proper classes.
You can pick any of the so called classes at character creation and then later develop your character so that it can gain the needed skill masteries to enter any guild.
This is so because they are nothing more than skill bundles, and once at skill cap you can learn new skills by setting those already raised to decrease.
Doing so is inefficient so it is better to start out with the skills related to your long-term goals but if you fail to do that or are ultimately unhappy with your choices the UO skill system allows one to recover from that.
What you've made clear is you don't understand that UO is all about skills and nothing about class. The so called classes are nothing but starting skill bundles, and no matter which you choose you can ultimately ditch any to all of the skills in that bundle in favour of something else.
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
If you're bored by classes, I would assume you're mostly bored by the genre as a whole.
Classes are the superior concept over a simplistic skillbased system, but they are much harder to design well.
Well designed class systems give you a completely different character if you create a character of a class you had not played before. Aspects of the game that had been very important on other characters might suddenly be hardly important or not present at all, while other aspects suddenly turn very important.
Vanguard did this very well.
For example when I first played Vanguard my group Necromancer complained I would loot everything. I didnt understood why until I made a Necromancer myself, if you looted a corpse you could no longer use special abilities, which actually was pretty important for a Necromancer.
Another example is selfbuffs. Some classses such as Ranger would have to use a specific line of abilities to create selfbuffs that wouldnt last very long, and had to be regularily refreshed.
And so on.
One of my main complaints about Vanguard was that the tanks, i.e. Warrior, Paladin and Dread Knight actually played too much the same. While all my healers - Cleric, Shaman, Disciple and Blood Mage - differed a lot more, and so did the damage dealer classes.
Another huge advantage of classes is that they are clearly easier to balance than skillbased systems. The problem with skills is simply that some skills will end up having synergy. Favoring these two skills will give you an overpowered character. Thats very hard to avoid.
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
That you've played since launch is all well and good. That you still don't understand the nature of the system that underlies a game you played so long is somewhat startling, but your success shows ignorance can at times be bliss.
If you're bored by classes, I would assume you're mostly bored by the genre as a whole.
Classes are the superior concept over a simplistic skillbased system, but they are much harder to design well.
Both class based and skill based games have their virtues. A preference for one or the other says nothing about a person's overall interest in the genre. Neither is superior overall but either may be seen so depending on what best serves the game in the view of those developing it.
Beyond that, while it is easier to consider their differences in terms of absolutes there are many games with elements of both.
For example, ESO is class based but has an abundance of abilities not related to class. As has been pointed out, one's build need not include any class abilities. While this doesn't negate the character is of a specific class the build itself is class agnostic.
Many, perhaps most, class based systems don't allow the range of flexibility ESO does, at least in the context of MMORPGs, but the game demonstrates it possible.
For example, ESO is class based but has an abundance of abilities not related to class. As has been pointed out, one's build need not include any class abilities. While this doesn't negate the character is of a specific class the build itself is class agnostic.
That completely negates the class. It literally wouldn't matter what class you picked if you could just make that build with any class.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
That you've played since launch is all well and good. That you still don't understand the nature of the system that underlies a game you played so long is somewhat startling, but your success shows ignorance can at times be bliss.
You're in the minority here , matter a fact you are alone .And wrong , enjoy that.
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
That you've played since launch is all well and good. That you still don't understand the nature of the system that underlies a game you played so long is somewhat startling, but your success shows ignorance can at times be bliss.
You're in the minority here , matter a fact you are alone .And wrong , enjoy that.
I'm frequently in the minority and often alone.
Claiming I'm wrong means nothing. Prove it, if you can.
KnightFalz said: Both class based and skill based games have their virtues.
Its more that the OP clearly was happy with classes for a long time, but then suddenly demands "something new".
To me thats a sign of getting bored with the genre.
It's exactly that the OP is looking for a MMORPG where game play is based on skills selected rather than on class. By definition the OP wants a skill based MMORPG.
If it was boredom with the genre the OP would seek something outside the genre.
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
That you've played since launch is all well and good. That you still don't understand the nature of the system that underlies a game you played so long is somewhat startling, but your success shows ignorance can at times be bliss.
You're in the minority here , matter a fact you are alone .And wrong , enjoy that.
I'm frequently in the minority and often alone.
Claiming I'm wrong means nothing. Prove it, if you can.
Oh I already did.
With how much denial you are in we better call up Bethesda and tell Todd Howard that the Elder Scrolls games where they made classes with skills never happened. Give EA/Mythic a ring too and let them know that when they added Paladin and Necromancer they were wrong calling them classes and you know better than the people who actually made the games.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Derp.. Bag of rocks , comes to mind , I have played UO since its launch , I understand it completely . You however , Do not.. As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
That you've played since launch is all well and good. That you still don't understand the nature of the system that underlies a game you played so long is somewhat startling, but your success shows ignorance can at times be bliss.
You're in the minority here , matter a fact you are alone .And wrong , enjoy that.
I'm frequently in the minority and often alone.
Claiming your right means nothing. Prove us wrong if you can.
Fixed
You have been proven wrong by several people in this thread. But you get that Windmill Don.:)
I'll wade in for a second just to keep things stirred up.
ESO
is a class based game. When you pick a certain class, you restrict the
skills you have to choose from. That is the definition of a class. It is
a subset of the available skills.
A
skill-based system where you have a limited number of skill points to
spend, is still a class type system. It might not have pre-defined
classes, but you are still creating a class in effect by picking what
skills you will use.
A game with all skills
available, and no limit on skill points, like Ryzom, does not have
classes. At all. You are everything, all the time. No subset of skills
to pick from.
If you decided in Ryzom to play
as a healer and only level healing skills, you are still not a healer
class. You have all the other skills available. In ESO, if you pick a
class like healer, you won't be able to use skills from other classes.
(I didn't play UO). In UO, I understand you have open ended skills to
pick from, but can only pick a limited number of them. To use a
different one, you have to give up one. That is basically still a class
system, without pre-defined class limitations.
ESO is a hybrid with a class system that can be totally ignored if you want.
There is no true class-based game where a Templar, DK, NB, etc,. can all have the exact same build with the exact same active skills and exact same passives.
So I stopped reading there...
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO is a hybrid with a class system that can be totally ignored if you want.
There is no true class-based game where a Templar, DK, NB, etc,. can all have the exact same build with the exact same active skills and exact same passives.
So I stopped reading there...
Almost, but not quite. In ESO you MUST pick a class. And once you do, you won't be able to use skills from other classes. So it's a class-based game. There is a pool of skills available to all classes, but no class can use skills from another class. The definition of class.
edit: CoH is a class-based game with a lot of pool powers. You can certainly play the game only using pool powers. Still a class-based game though.
ESO is a hybrid with a class system that can be totally ignored if you want.
There is no true class-based game where a Templar, DK, NB, etc,. can all have the exact same build with the exact same active skills and exact same passives.
So I stopped reading there...
Almost, but not quite. In ESO you MUST pick a class. And once you do, you won't be able to use skills from other classes. So it's a class-based game. There is a pool of skills available to all classes, but no class can use skills from another class. The definition of class.
edit: CoH is a class-based game with a lot of pool powers. You can certainly play the game only using pool powers. Still a class-based game though.
So do hybrids exist in your gaming world view?
Besides you're just circling back to the same argument that you are the class they say you are, even when you can 100% ignore class skills and that user-made skill bundles don't define a class and you have no business naming those because you're not the dev.
Just more of the same silliness.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO is a hybrid with a class system that can be totally ignored if you want.
There is no true class-based game where a Templar, DK, NB, etc,. can all have the exact same build with the exact same active skills and exact same passives.
So I stopped reading there...
Almost, but not quite. In ESO you MUST pick a class. And once you do, you won't be able to use skills from other classes. So it's a class-based game. There is a pool of skills available to all classes, but no class can use skills from another class. The definition of class.
edit: CoH is a class-based game with a lot of pool powers. You can certainly play the game only using pool powers. Still a class-based game though.
So do hybrids exist in your gaming world view?
Besides you're just circling back to the same argument that you are the class they say you are, even when you can 100% ignore class skills and that user-made skill bundles don't define a class and you have no business naming those because you're not the dev.
Just more of the same silliness.
The root meaning of "class" is a subset of items based on some attribute. The verb "classify" is to sort items according to some attribute. A "class" of ships defines certain common characteristics, such as aircraft carrier, destroyer, etc.
Class therefore means a subset, a group based on some characteristic.
If the game has subsets of skills, then it is class-based. If the game makes you pick a class, and that limits you to a subset of skills, it is class-based.
ESO and CoH are both class-based, and they both have a subset of skills that are common to all players. Still, once you pick a class, you have limited what skills you have available. If you only used the common skills, you are still limited to what skills you can use based on the class you picked. I guess you could call that a hybrid playstyle.
In my earlier post that you said you didn't read, I also make the point that a skill-based system like UO, where you have all the skills to pick from, but are limited to a certain number, is still a class-based system. Just without pre-defined classes.
The only truly classless games that I know of are NMS and Ryzom. NMS doesn't have skills at all. Or levels. Ryzom has skills, but you have them all, all the time. So, not class-based.
Comments
I'm an Archer or a Spellsword or a Battlemage or a Ranger. I am the class I build.
Is this the way you are IRL? If your doctor was once a waiter do you think of him as a waiter?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It was made clear on my post.
So to become a member of the Warriors Guild , you must build the Warrior Class .
Can't explain it any simpler .
If you have not BUILT A WARRIOR CLASS YOU DONT GET IN.
Hope this helps , I feel it wont
I used my clay and straw skills to make a class. Oh wait apparently I can't do that in a skill based game.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/It does not negate it, and I explained logically why this is so.
Your class is immutable. Everyone has one in ESO, and only one.
However, in ESO one's build is quite variable as there are many sources of abilities other than class that can be chosen by any character.
You can call yourself whatever you want, but if part of what you want is to have a constant bear companion, like a Ranger might, your class has to be Warden as no other will provide it.
Game classes aren't applicable to real life.
You can pick any of the so called classes at character creation and then later develop your character so that it can gain the needed skill masteries to enter any guild.
This is so because they are nothing more than skill bundles, and once at skill cap you can learn new skills by setting those already raised to decrease.
Doing so is inefficient so it is better to start out with the skills related to your long-term goals but if you fail to do that or are ultimately unhappy with your choices the UO skill system allows one to recover from that.
What you've made clear is you don't understand that UO is all about skills and nothing about class. The so called classes are nothing but starting skill bundles, and no matter which you choose you can ultimately ditch any to all of the skills in that bundle in favour of something else.
As someone that actually Raids in UO we certainly fill with tradional Classes in Tank/DPS/Healer/Support..
Class is dismissed
Both class based and skill based games have their virtues. A preference for one or the other says nothing about a person's overall interest in the genre. Neither is superior overall but either may be seen so depending on what best serves the game in the view of those developing it.
Beyond that, while it is easier to consider their differences in terms of absolutes there are many games with elements of both.
Many, perhaps most, class based systems don't allow the range of flexibility ESO does, at least in the context of MMORPGs, but the game demonstrates it possible.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Claiming I'm wrong means nothing. Prove it, if you can.
It's exactly that the OP is looking for a MMORPG where game play is based on skills selected rather than on class. By definition the OP wants a skill based MMORPG.
If it was boredom with the genre the OP would seek something outside the genre.
With how much denial you are in we better call up Bethesda and tell Todd Howard that the Elder Scrolls games where they made classes with skills never happened. Give EA/Mythic a ring too and let them know that when they added Paladin and Necromancer they were wrong calling them classes and you know better than the people who actually made the games.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/But I guess that to some, being the lonely king of a desert hill is fun...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
There is no true class-based game where a Templar, DK, NB, etc,. can all have the exact same build with the exact same active skills and exact same passives.
So I stopped reading there...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Besides you're just circling back to the same argument that you are the class they say you are, even when you can 100% ignore class skills and that user-made skill bundles don't define a class and you have no business naming those because you're not the dev.
Just more of the same silliness.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Perhaps.
Living on a desert hill beats life in a luxury resort if you must agree with the incorrect to gain entry.