This is just an instance we know about, People get fired for all kinds reasons, probably even dumber than this.
However this doesn't just apply to game companies but all companies and if you are looking to consume products from a company that doesn't exploit their workers you basically would have to live off grid in a hut you made in the woods.
This isn't to say mistreatment is ok, rather it is fundamentally a part of our mode of production.
The answer isn't boycott though, you can cancel a WoW sub if you want but there will not be enough people doing it for Blizzard to even notice and you are mostly harming yourself.
Rather it would require organizing for better protections for workers in general, limit the use of crunch for developers, and a host of other protections.
This would mean large scale worker rather than consumer based organization, ie workers rights groups, like the GameDev Union.
Individually you can help organize and volunteer time to help those type of groups and try to directly help developers.
Thing is, awareness matters on such subjects. While boycotting "doesn't work", a good chunk of why is because people don't care. And that is the same reason workers rights and wellbeing won't easily change either.
The more dismissive the consumers and community at large is, the more ok it is to exploit the employees, even when a little drama leaks out, because the powers that be will ultimately be able to trust the return to status quo.
Makes sense,
People have to know there is something to organize for in order to do it.
I think the biggest farce, and it is the one we are all encouraged to do is individualized "ethical" consumption. Individually deciding to not consume something due to a companies practices. I.e. voting with your wallet
No wonder why companies, media, and the government encourage small individual action over collective action.
Been my experience that most everything thing made, every service provided and enjoyed has its positives from a consumer view along with a 'darker side" of the story.
This Chinese made cell phone, the gasoline my car burns, the bacon I enjoyed in my sandwich today, all have some bad stories behind them, yet I don't dwell on it too much.
As far as Blizzard goes while some awful things happened there, I am of the mind it wasn't as prevalent as some have said, but certainly it was terrible for those employees who were involved.
Life goes on...
Oh yeah, haven't played any of their games since 2010, boycotting them over the fact they continually design games not to my personal liking.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, I know a lot of readers don't care much about WoW, but in the case that there are those that do... Here is me opening up a discussion to feel less alone- in the hopes that there are others feeling the same way, haha.
Did anyone catch the tweet recently from Eric Covington, about being let go because someone higher up in the company took offense to some comments/jokes he put into writing for the Venture Company goblins?
If the work Covington did was acceptable by the standards of the time when he did it he shouldn't be released for it now. However, such absurdities have become common place in the world of today. Good luck finding a major corporation that doesn't indulge such nonsense to some degree.
Is that a boycott, or just not wasting money on something you assume you will be disappointed in?
That's what drives my boycotting, not from any sense of social justice, but rather companies like Blizzard, EA and others don't appear to create games with designs I might enjoy so why waste the money?
Some people will boldly try a new restaurant when it opens but I normally wait until the "reviews" are in from people I trust, or who know of my peculiar tastes.
When my family talks about a new place to eat at or enjoyed they frequently will say, "not sure there's much on the menu Dad could eat." (i.e. Sushi Bar)
They are normally quite correct as they just "know me "
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Is that a boycott, or just not wasting money on something you assume you will be disappointed in?
Bit of both I guess.
I genuinely think EA is a bad company and doing terrible things to the games industry.....but I'd be able to forgive / overlook that if they produced good games.
But, as an example, I don't have Game Pass because I boycott EA. I would quite like the Games Pass, I think it's good value for money. But, Microsoft refused to tell me how my subscription money would be handed out, so there was a chance that my money would still end up in EA's pockets.
I'd probably be in a similar position with Blizzard, its just that Blizzard's games have never appealed to me in the first place. Some of EA's games look genuinely appealing, so it does take me some willpower to not get the games.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
"Blizzard will be its own downfall, and they won't have anyone to blame but themselves."
Isn't is amazing that the player base accepted every microtransaction addition to the game by literally voting on polls for them? $60 level 60 character back in the day. Voting on cash shop mounts. Accepting legalized gold buying through tokens instead of demanding fixes that preserved the integrity of the game. Accepting cash services for nearly everything that has nothing to do with actual game play.
You drank the Kool-Aid for 15 years of real money transaction conversion, sold your rights away to whales, and come here and throw all the blame at the developer?
Every game that was once good was destroyed by it's own players. You are culpable. Stop deflecting blame, because you'll take this self-entitled attitude right into your next game and begin the same destructive feedback model you helped create.
"Blizzard will be its own downfall, and they won't have anyone to blame but themselves."
Isn't is amazing that the player base accepted every microtransaction addition to the game by literally voting on polls for them? $60 level 60 character back in the day. Voting on cash shop mounts. Accepting legalized gold buying through tokens instead of demanding fixes that preserved the integrity of the game. Accepting cash services for nearly everything that has nothing to do with actual game play.
You drank the Kool-Aid for 15 years of real money transaction conversion, sold your rights away to whales, and come here and throw all the blame at the developer?
Every game that was once good was destroyed by it's own players. You are culpable. Stop deflecting blame, because you'll take this self-entitled attitude right into your next game and begin the same destructive feedback model you helped create.
I don't agree, with respects. Anytime you let the masses make the decisions, you will quickly run into "the inmates running the asylum."
What happened there was that Blizzard wanted the money, but they didn't want the blame. So they pulled that maneuver and got their money, while the blame got shifted to the "inmates."
It was poor leadership in the context of gaming, and I'll leave it up to others to decide if it was good or bad as far as for Blizzard. However, I'll state that looking at long term effects is as important as the short term.
Developers are just human beings and players are just human beings.
Everyone makes errors.
But yes we had the strangest polls in Vanguard, too. Like when they had these racial mounts (every race got a mount and to get it, you had to farm reputation for that race), people LIKED that if you would work on your reputation you couldnt help but get more enemies than gain new friends. Basically the more reputation you would have farmed, the less areas you could still go to.
Thankfully they rolled that stuf back later. Reputation was still a PITA grind but it was no longer necessary to make enemies to get your favorite racial mount.
I usually went for the unicorn or whatever the other mount was (Hellhound ?!? or something like that. It looked very wolfie) instead anyway.
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
well they do a poor ass job at that as well
Do they? I would say that's on a case to case basis. Diablo IV seems to be a success, Larian is poised to have a huge success with Balder's Gate 3.
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
well they do a poor ass job at that as well
Do they? I would say that's on a case to case basis. Diablo IV seems to be a success, Larian is poised to have a huge success with Balder's Gate 3.
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Yeah, I just want them to produce good, fun games. At affordable prices without any delays or other baggage. Don't care about the rest.
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
well they do a poor ass job at that as well
Do they? I would say that's on a case to case basis. Diablo IV seems to be a success, Larian is poised to have a huge success with Balder's Gate 3.
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Yeah, I just want them to produce good, fun games. At affordable prices without any delays or other baggage. Don't care about the rest.
Is that too much to ask for?
But what's affordable? I'm assuming you are saying that because games have now started hitting the $70 mark. However, games have had the same prices for so long and now that they are raising their prices people are going nuts.
Especially since they are very cheap as compared to what I remember. Used to be $30 just for an atari cartridge.
Current games haven't really gone up with inflation.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
well they do a poor ass job at that as well
Do they? I would say that's on a case to case basis. Diablo IV seems to be a success, Larian is poised to have a huge success with Balder's Gate 3.
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Yeah, I just want them to produce good, fun games. At affordable prices without any delays or other baggage. Don't care about the rest.
Is that too much to ask for?
But what's affordable? I'm assuming you are saying that because games have now started hitting the $70 mark. However, games have had the same prices for so long and now that they are raising their prices people are going nuts.
Especially since they are very cheap as compared to what I remember. Used to be $30 just for an atari cartridge.
Current games haven't really gone up with inflation.
I never liked the ideaology of "games didn't really go up with inflation" simply because MOST games have some form of paid dlc'd. So should the price margin really go up at all since many of these games feel 'incomplete' without that paid dlc? Besides, the idea of games being rumored to be going up to $70 was well before inflation started to take affect (with 2k leading the charge pushing their $70 increase in near mid 2020).
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
Conflicted feelings, I wonder how much longer we will be able to have them? As we now seem expected to be violent in our hate or love for every game? Well that's the way it feels to me sometimes.
I think we need to look at game studios as businesses. They aren't there to be our friends, they go to their job, at a company, do their work and go home. If they are successful we get a good product.
But we shouldn't follow them as if they were a part of our lives.
Just like we shouldn't, in my opinion, be following actors or singers or any type of entertainer as if we are owed anything and as if their lives should be as transparent as media makes it.
well they do a poor ass job at that as well
Do they? I would say that's on a case to case basis. Diablo IV seems to be a success, Larian is poised to have a huge success with Balder's Gate 3.
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Yeah, I just want them to produce good, fun games. At affordable prices without any delays or other baggage. Don't care about the rest.
Is that too much to ask for?
But what's affordable? I'm assuming you are saying that because games have now started hitting the $70 mark. However, games have had the same prices for so long and now that they are raising their prices people are going nuts.
Especially since they are very cheap as compared to what I remember. Used to be $30 just for an atari cartridge.
Current games haven't really gone up with inflation.
I never liked the ideaology of "games didn't really go up with inflation" simply because MOST games have some form of paid dlc'd. So should the price margin really go up at all since many of these games feel 'incomplete' without that paid dlc? Besides, the idea of games being rumored to be going up to $70 was well before inflation started to take affect (with 2k leading the charge pushing their $70 increase in near mid 2020).
The price to make games, especially very graphically intensive games, has gone up quite a bit but prices never went up.
Raising prices always causes an uproar so what do they do? They create DLC. But DLC still costs money to make when it comes to expansions.
And again, companies, especially publicly traded companies, are there to make money.
As far as these games feeling "incomplete" that's going to have to be on a case by case basis. I'm sure there are some that feel incomplete but others "not so much."
Did Elden Ring feel incomplete? It had an amazing amount of content. From what I understand Baldur's gate 3 has an impressive amount of content as well.
So clearly not all games are incomplete. $70 is under what it should be given inflation. I think I figured it out to be $74 dollars or some such thing.
No people are cheap (and in some cases I get it) and they don't want to pay for rising prices. But in order for companies to make the money they want they are going to have to raise prices. If they aren't going to make what they want it's not worth it to them.
Then we'll have indy games and we'll hear the crying and screaming from a certain large demographic that it looks so 1994 even though it seems that a lot of people who say stuff like that have no idea what a game from 1994 really looked like.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
So your retirement savings is cash in a can on the top shelf?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
What always kills me about anti-capitalist rants is the irrational desire to fix power discrepancies by giving even more power to fewer people.
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
So your retirement savings is cash in a can on the top shelf?
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
What always kills me about anti-capitalist rants is the irrational desire to fix power discrepancies by giving even more power to fewer people.
They also don't think it through, much like game Devs.
Yeah I actually want to get away from capitalism, thank you very much.
The very idea of shareholders is amoral. If you own something, you need to have responsibility for it, too. Thats exactly whats stripped of shareholders. They just give money to make more money. No responsibility whatsoever. Thats why I oppose that very concept.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
That doesnt mean I have to buy poor products or that MAXIMIZING PROFITS AT ALL COSTS - the logical result of having anonymous shareholders who have no responsibility for the company to develop well and who can sell the stocks at any time - is in any way legitimate.
So your retirement savings is cash in a can on the top shelf?
Comments
People have to know there is something to organize for in order to do it.
I think the biggest farce, and it is the one we are all encouraged to do is individualized "ethical" consumption.
Individually deciding to not consume something due to a companies practices.
I.e. voting with your wallet
No wonder why companies, media, and the government encourage small individual action over collective action.
This Chinese made cell phone, the gasoline my car burns, the bacon I enjoyed in my sandwich today, all have some bad stories behind them, yet I don't dwell on it too much.
As far as Blizzard goes while some awful things happened there, I am of the mind it wasn't as prevalent as some have said, but certainly it was terrible for those employees who were involved.
Life goes on...
Oh yeah, haven't played any of their games since 2010, boycotting them over the fact they continually design games not to my personal liking.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If the work Covington did was acceptable by the standards of the time when he did it he shouldn't be released for it now. However, such absurdities have become common place in the world of today. Good luck finding a major corporation that doesn't indulge such nonsense to some degree.
Some people will boldly try a new restaurant when it opens but I normally wait until the "reviews" are in from people I trust, or who know of my peculiar tastes.
When my family talks about a new place to eat at or enjoyed they frequently will say, "not sure there's much on the menu Dad could eat." (i.e. Sushi Bar)
They are normally quite correct as they just "know me "
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Isn't is amazing that the player base accepted every microtransaction addition to the game by literally voting on polls for them? $60 level 60 character back in the day. Voting on cash shop mounts. Accepting legalized gold buying through tokens instead of demanding fixes that preserved the integrity of the game. Accepting cash services for nearly everything that has nothing to do with actual game play.
You drank the Kool-Aid for 15 years of real money transaction conversion, sold your rights away to whales, and come here and throw all the blame at the developer?
Every game that was once good was destroyed by it's own players. You are culpable. Stop deflecting blame, because you'll take this self-entitled attitude right into your next game and begin the same destructive feedback model you helped create.
Anytime you let the masses make the decisions, you will quickly run into "the inmates running the asylum."
What happened there was that Blizzard wanted the money, but they didn't want the blame. So they pulled that maneuver and got their money, while the blame got shifted to the "inmates."
It was poor leadership in the context of gaming, and I'll leave it up to others to decide if it was good or bad as far as for Blizzard.
However, I'll state that looking at long term effects is as important as the short term.
Once upon a time....
The newer God of War Games have gotten great responses as well as on of the latest Final Fantasy games. Elden Ring seems a huge hit.
If game companies are making games that people love then that's all they have to do. Not every company will do that but you can say that about any company in any industry.
It's just that players want game companies to be so much more than just companies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Is that too much to ask for?
Especially since they are very cheap as compared to what I remember. Used to be $30 just for an atari cartridge.
Current games haven't really gone up with inflation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good people work at every company.
If you get too far off into the weeds on this you could probably find a good reason to boycott every single company on the planet.
The point being, I think you could feel pretty good about any decision you make.
Its legitimate motive for companies to make profit.
Raising prices always causes an uproar so what do they do? They create DLC. But DLC still costs money to make when it comes to expansions.
And again, companies, especially publicly traded companies, are there to make money.
As far as these games feeling "incomplete" that's going to have to be on a case by case basis. I'm sure there are some that feel incomplete but others "not so much."
Did Elden Ring feel incomplete? It had an amazing amount of content. From what I understand Baldur's gate 3 has an impressive amount of content as well.
So clearly not all games are incomplete. $70 is under what it should be given inflation. I think I figured it out to be $74 dollars or some such thing.
No people are cheap (and in some cases I get it) and they don't want to pay for rising prices. But in order for companies to make the money they want they are going to have to raise prices. If they aren't going to make what they want it's not worth it to them.
Then we'll have indy games and we'll hear the crying and screaming from a certain large demographic that it looks so 1994 even though it seems that a lot of people who say stuff like that have no idea what a game from 1994 really looked like.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Oh reeeeally. Now I know where to look."
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....