I think that modern MMOs can trace their lineage directly from the original graphical MMOs like Ultima Online, but what is often missing from these discussions is how Ultima was preceded by online text based MMOs (or 'Multi User Dungeons'), which themselves were originally inspired by tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons.
Also, while most text games worked with a fairly basic 'choose class, grind levels, kill monster' format (thousands of MUDs out there follow this format and use similar codebases), online real-time competitive pvp gaming also was first possible in the multiplayer online text game known as 'Avalon'.
That game was subscription based and is now dead, but there is a free game called Akanbar still running which uses code based on the early Avalon game which I would totally recommend.
I would agree with what Nanfoodle wrote above, the RPG term has probably been broadened and watered down over time, 'Fantasy' and 'RPG' have become synonymous and interchangeable, the roleplaying part no longer matters in most MMOs for example.
I am a simpleton, as long as the RPG allows me to (1) choose a starting character to develop and (2) customize my character, I'm good to go!
I think customize is the key word here, rather than just progress
I never was much interested in playing a character that was already established, rather I want to make my own.
Pure progression without customization is just incremental games, like cookie clicker, It is the player agency over the character I think that gives RPG vibes
I think that modern MMOs can trace their lineage directly from the original graphical MMOs like Ultima Online, but what is often missing from these discussions is how Ultima was preceded by online text based MMOs (or 'Multi User Dungeons'), which themselves were originally inspired by tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons.
Also, while most text games worked with a fairly basic 'choose class, grind levels, kill monster' format (thousands of MUDs out there follow this format and use similar codebases), online real-time competitive pvp gaming also was first possible in the multiplayer online text game known as 'Avalon'.
That game was subscription based and is now dead, but there is a free game called Akanbar still running which uses code based on the early Avalon game which I would totally recommend.
I would agree with what Nanfoodle wrote above, the RPG term has probably been broadened and watered down over time, 'Fantasy' and 'RPG' have become synonymous and interchangeable, the roleplaying part no longer matters in most MMOs for example.
Opinions vary. Pick those elements you feel defines RPGs and go with that. It's what people generally do anyway, often to the dismay of those with contrary personal definitions.
Well, I once read an online comment that said something like "Gothic has all the elements of roleplaying games that are fun, and skipped over all that arent".
It was the exact opposite for me. You couldnt even name your character, let alone choose gender or looks. There have been only three classes. The world was the most horribly uninspired, boring, stereotypical fantasy. The writing was meh. The combat was meh. Etc.
These definitions and categories happen after the fact, so it is more like an attempt to describe the space RPGs have occupied historically. It doesn't necessarily restrict what RPGs can look like going forward. Otherwise, the very first game labeled as an RPG is the only true RPG and any deviations from its systems would be making something else, but clearly that is not the case.
Like any other thing, we use its 'features' to describe it and make comparisons to other things. But what 'features' we choose to focus on may not be what matters to other people. Like an earlier post mentioned, the axes used to categorize RPGs here do not capture things like progression through grind, which many players associate with certain subsets of RPGs. I think there are many ways to slice this and any model that simplifies it to just a couple of axes is bound to miss something important to someone.
Comments
I never was much interested in playing a character that was already established, rather I want to make my own.
Pure progression without customization is just incremental games, like cookie clicker,
It is the player agency over the character I think that gives RPG vibes