How Do I Tell My Kid That Final Fantasy Is Hot Garbage?

Wargfoot

So my adult daughter is all excited about Final Fantasy XIV.
She'd like me to join her, so I let her give me a tour.

IMHO, everything about that game is so overwrought that it broke my brain.
I really do detest high fantasy - the way over done armors, everything glitters, the UI looks like Unicorns are farting glitter all over waterfall of Skittles.

I wasn't even sure there was a game world, to be honest.
And this is what really didn't work for me.

My kid was able to teleport all over the place - from dungeon to dungeon - and even change characters at the new location (if I understood what was going on, I cannot be sure, the casino interface kept throwing me).   The dungeons seemed like set pieces to me and not locations that would be fun to explore.  Sure, the graphics were pretty in places, but they never gave me the feeling that it might be fun to peek around the corner.  I didn't get the sense that she was part of a world but rather that the entire game is a lobby.  Volcanos in the background, crashing spaceships, moons and unicorns, fighting a armored horse while riding a motorcycle - what hot garbage.

As for locations, when everything is the Taj Mahal what do you think you'll find around the corner but another Taj Mahal?

Is it well done?
Obviously, it is for the target audience.

I just didn't get the sense that you grab a torch, and pathetic sword, wander out of town and kick open the door to a crypt and peek inside.
I think I miss that more than anything.

Wargfoot

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

"So my adult daughter is all excited about Final Fantasy XIV."

That's all you need to know right there. To her it isn't hot garbage. It's amazing.

Just a different strokes for different folks situation.

I think it's awesome she likes  it. And who knows, maybe she'll be curious about other  types of games or maybe she found something that really speaks to her.

My first mmorpg was  lineage 2. I'm sure to many that was also hot garbage. But I thought it was all sorts of awesome.

Gorwe

So, what is the desired outcome?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

I just didn't get the sense that you grab a torch, and pathetic sword, wander out of town and kick open the door to a crypt and peek inside.
I think I miss that more than anything.

Honestly, I miss that soooooo  much! 

Quizzical

Gorwe said:

So, what is the desired outcome?

For his daughter to stop being happy with the game and be miserable instead.

lahnmir

Sovrath said:

Wargfoot said:

I just didn't get the sense that you grab a torch, and pathetic sword, wander out of town and kick open the door to a crypt and peek inside.
I think I miss that more than anything.

Honestly, I miss that soooooo  much! 

Go. Play. Outward. Both of you!

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Angrakhan

I will say I feel your pain. I have two boys, both avid gamers and at ages 11 and 14 are both old enough and they are certainly intelligent enough to enjoy RPGs and MMORPGs. Do they? Oh no, that would be easy. The older one is a FPS fan and can't stand anything 3rd person meaning most MMOs are completely out for him. The younger one loves strategy and city builder games. His favorites are Hearts of Iron 4 and Cities Skylines. 

So we all point at each other's games and declare "hot garbage"!

Good times. I have no sage advice to offer, unfortunately. I can say I do mourn the fact we could have a 4-man premade in any game we wanted provided I could get the wife to play (which she us d to be an avid WoW player so that's not off the table).

Oh well. Maybe I should try and dust off my FPS skills, but at 50 years old my reaction time isn't what it used to be.

Cactus_LFRez

I say just play FFXIV with your daughter,

It's about spending the time together more than the activity.

I went to NASCAR races with my dad when I was younger, I am not really into racing but that also isn't the point.

Sovrath

lahnmir said:

Sovrath said:

Wargfoot said:

I just didn't get the sense that you grab a torch, and pathetic sword, wander out of town and kick open the door to a crypt and peek inside.
I think I miss that more than anything.

Honestly, I miss that soooooo  much! 

Go. Play. Outward. Both of you!

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

I already do!

(was more thinking along the mmorpg  side of  things ...)

Neoyoshi

I'm no expert in this type of advice, but i'd ask her what she thinks. 

Kyleran

templarga said:

I agree fully with @Sovrath. My son played Fortnite for ages, Rocket League, Roblox and a myriad number of other games that I would not waste the drive space to install them on my computer. But HE loves them. He spends his earned money on them, enjoys them and has fun with them. That's all that matters.

Naw, I plan to leave my son out of the will for not playing the "right" kind of video games, especially because he enjoys games on consoles.

Heresy ...PC Master Race forever!

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gorwe

Wargfoot said:

So my adult daughter is all excited about Final Fantasy XIV.
She'd like me to join her, so I let her give me a tour.

IMHO, everything about that game is so overwrought that it broke my brain.
I really do detest high fantasy - the way over done armors, everything glitters, the UI looks like Unicorns are farting glitter all over waterfall of Skittles.

I wasn't even sure there was a game world, to be honest.
And this is what really didn't work for me.

My kid was able to teleport all over the place - from dungeon to dungeon - and even change characters at the new location (if I understood what was going on, I cannot be sure, the casino interface kept throwing me).   The dungeons seemed like set pieces to me and not locations that would be fun to explore.  Sure, the graphics were pretty in places, but they never gave me the feeling that it might be fun to peek around the corner.  I didn't get the sense that she was part of a world but rather that the entire game is a lobby.  Volcanos in the background, crashing spaceships, moons and unicorns, fighting a armored horse while riding a motorcycle - what hot garbage.

As for locations, when everything is the Taj Mahal what do you think you'll find around the corner but another Taj Mahal?

Is it well done?
Obviously, it is for the target audience.

I just didn't get the sense that you grab a torch, and pathetic sword, wander out of town and kick open the door to a crypt and peek inside.
I think I miss that more than anything.

Did it cross your mind that it's just your only point of view? Ask her what she sees in it, have a nice discussion.

cameltosis

@wargfoot your struggle is real!

I would suggest that you remember that every brain is a pattern matching machine. We are evolved to spot patterns in life, and we take great pleasure in finding and learning those patterns. It's what has allowed us to thrive as a species.

How does that relate to games?

You can't just jump in at the deep end. You have to start at the beginning with the basic patterns, then work your way up from there. 

So, to you (and me!), games like Fortnite, CoD, and some of the worse Final Fantasy games, just seem like hot garbage. It's not that they are hot garbage, it's that they are aimed at young children with little gaming experience. For you and I, with 30+ years gaming experience, the patterns in those games are too shallow for us and so they provide minimal entertainment. But to a young person with much less experience, those simplistic patterns are still satifying.

The same is true with music, films, tv, books etc.

The best you can hope for is that your daughter can "catch up", but that might take some training / tuition from you! So, I would advise playing FFXIV with ur daughter and showing her just how easy / shallow / boring it is to you. It might inspire her to take a step up to better games!

Kyleran

Honestly, I would play Palia or whatever if one of my children asked me to. Heck, I might even play a console game....ugh, PS5 only, no Switch.

Hasn't happened in quite a few years.

  

Wargfoot

templarga said:

You have a will? I am just going to leave him crippling debt and scary family heirlooms that I tell him he cannot throw away or risk hauntings.

His will is nothing more than an access key for Star Citizen.

finefluff

cameltosis said:

So, to you (and me!), games like Fortnite, CoD, and some of the worse Final Fantasy games, just seem like hot garbage. It's not that they are hot garbage, it's that they are aimed at young children with little gaming experience. 

I disagree with this. I think your dislike is more about the aesthetic experience you are looking for rather than the simplicity of the patterns. I am sure you can think of a simplistic game that you like. NES games like Mario have simplistic patterns but they can still be satisfying and you can still challenge yourself with them. I would even say that beloved jrps like Chrono Trigger and FFVI have simplistic gameplay.

Games like Fortnite, CoD, and FFXIV can actually be challenging at the high level. They can require ether extensive practice competing with others or coordinating with others, for example, in the case of FFXIV savage and ultimate raids.

I will say though, that the dialogue and story heavy nature of FFXIV, and the complete lack of challenge while leveling, will make the game boring for many players and it actually makes me hesitate to recommend it.

But going back to Warg's statement about detesting high fantasy and unicorns, it's clear that the game doesn't offer the aesthetic experience he is looking for. But maybe its aesthetic is just what makes it so appealing to his daughter and other players. Imagine the most complex and challenging game. Now imagine it was Barbie themed. It wouldn't appeal to me and a lot of others I'd imagine. To conclude, I don't think most play games to experience challenging and complex patterns (we have to deal with those patterns enough IRL!) but more so to have certain aesthetic experiences of which challenge might only be one component.

lotrlore

Wargfoot said:

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

Okay, Boomer.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above. I play Genshin with my daughter mostly because it's time spent with them, not because I like Genshin (I just cannot get into it). 

I will say it took me multiple tries to really get into FFXIV despite being a fan of the series my whole gaming life. It can be a struggle, but it's made all the better with someone to experience it with. It tells such a beautiful story that spans so many beats, from loss, existentialism, commentary on society, fellowship, and more. The payoff is great, but the real payoff is creating memories with the kiddo if you two play together.

Wargfoot

lotrlore said:

Wargfoot said:

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

Okay, Boomer.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above. I play Genshin with my daughter mostly because it's time spent with them, not because I like Genshin (I just cannot get into it). 

I will say it took me multiple tries to really get into FFXIV despite being a fan of the series my whole gaming life. It can be a struggle, but it's made all the better with someone to experience it with. It tells such a beautiful story that spans so many beats, from loss, existentialism, commentary on society, fellowship, and more. The payoff is great, but the real payoff is creating memories with the kiddo if you two play together.

You know, she has said this same thing about the story.
For her that has been the biggest selling point.

I'm going to be really upset if ya'll talk me into this....

Wargfoot

lotrlore said:

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above.

We've been working around the clock to keep Sovrath's ego in check and you destroy months of work with a single sentence.

lotrlore

Wargfoot said:

lotrlore said:

Wargfoot said:

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

Okay, Boomer.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above. I play Genshin with my daughter mostly because it's time spent with them, not because I like Genshin (I just cannot get into it). 

I will say it took me multiple tries to really get into FFXIV despite being a fan of the series my whole gaming life. It can be a struggle, but it's made all the better with someone to experience it with. It tells such a beautiful story that spans so many beats, from loss, existentialism, commentary on society, fellowship, and more. The payoff is great, but the real payoff is creating memories with the kiddo if you two play together.

You know, she has said this same thing about the story.
For her that has been the biggest selling point.

I'm going to be really upset if ya'll talk me into this....

It is the only MMO story I've ever played that made me cry like a baby at 3am.

Only other game recently to do this to me was FFXVI and Kingdom Hearts III. 

God, KH3....

Kyleran

lotrlore said:

Wargfoot said:

lotrlore said:

Wargfoot said:

I'm going to offer up the obligatory response before anyone else chimes in: Okay boomer.

Okay, Boomer.

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above. I play Genshin with my daughter mostly because it's time spent with them, not because I like Genshin (I just cannot get into it). 

I will say it took me multiple tries to really get into FFXIV despite being a fan of the series my whole gaming life. It can be a struggle, but it's made all the better with someone to experience it with. It tells such a beautiful story that spans so many beats, from loss, existentialism, commentary on society, fellowship, and more. The payoff is great, but the real payoff is creating memories with the kiddo if you two play together.

You know, she has said this same thing about the story.
For her that has been the biggest selling point.

I'm going to be really upset if ya'll talk me into this....

It is the only MMO story I've ever played that made me cry like a baby at 3am.

Only other game recently to do this to me was FFXVI and Kingdom Hearts III. 

God, KH3....

The time I got ganked one system outside of Jita and lost  3 weeks worth of ore in EVE is one of the closest times I came to crying in a MMO.

Punching the monitor across the room helped take the edge off of my hurt feelings.

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

lotrlore said:

In all seriousness, I completely agree with @Sovrath's post above.

We've been working around the clock to keep Sovrath's ego in check and you destroy months of work with a single sentence.

To that point, when seen in a mirror, I'm closer than I appear!

cameltosis

finefluff said:

cameltosis said:

So, to you (and me!), games like Fortnite, CoD, and some of the worse Final Fantasy games, just seem like hot garbage. It's not that they are hot garbage, it's that they are aimed at young children with little gaming experience. 

I disagree with this. I think your dislike is more about the aesthetic experience you are looking for rather than the simplicity of the patterns. I am sure you can think of a simplistic game that you like. NES games like Mario have simplistic patterns but they can still be satisfying and you can still challenge yourself with them. I would even say that beloved jrps like Chrono Trigger and FFVI have simplistic gameplay.

Games like Fortnite, CoD, and FFXIV can actually be challenging at the high level. They can require ether extensive practice competing with others or coordinating with others, for example, in the case of FFXIV savage and ultimate raids.

I will say though, that the dialogue and story heavy nature of FFXIV, and the complete lack of challenge while leveling, will make the game boring for many players and it actually makes me hesitate to recommend it.

But going back to Warg's statement about detesting high fantasy and unicorns, it's clear that the game doesn't offer the aesthetic experience he is looking for. But maybe its aesthetic is just what makes it so appealing to his daughter and other players. Imagine the most complex and challenging game. Now imagine it was Barbie themed. It wouldn't appeal to me and a lot of others I'd imagine. To conclude, I don't think most play games to experience challenging and complex patterns (we have to deal with those patterns enough IRL!) but more so to have certain aesthetic experiences of which challenge might only be one component.

I actually like the aesthetic of a lot of the Final Fantasy games, I think they have some of the best designs / styling in the gaming world! Yeh, I think fortnite looks like shit. CoD....don't care one way or the other. I like modern guns and armour, but historical / future CoDs don't do much for me.

So, my dislike isn't based on aesthetics (though aesthetics clearly plays a part in choosing what games i play).

It really is about patterns / challenge / depth.

But remember, every single one of us has our own ability levels. What I find trivial in one game, someone else will find really tough. What I find tough in other games, someone will find trivially easy. That's just the way of the world.

As we get older and more experienced, we *should* keep getting better. I loved NES games like Mario as a child, and they still hold a fond place in my heart.....but I wouldn't play them any more. I'm better than I was back then, I understand more, so those games I just find tedious to play these days.