2023 reality

OG_Solareus

I firmly beleive if a game doesn't release in 2023, the amount of people who will go back to single player games will be so large, that the genre of mmos will die.

There's very little to say, nothing is pushing boundaries, nothing has longevity , nothing current is even updating on a semi annual basis except WoW.

This gnre is so close to failing that I beleive AGS is thinking very hard on not bringing anymore Korean games to its platform.

We've seen droughts, but this is something else. This is a complete absence of productivity with developers and meeting goals and dead lines for consumers. it is like we are all supposed to wait here  for decades while the developers and publishers get their shit together.

I think if nothing is released in 2023, I may just move onto something else completely from gaming...

Slapshot1188

Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?

That was a quick U-Turn

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OG_Solareus

Slapshot1188 said:

Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?

That was a quick U-Turn

MO2 is not free to play.

KnightFalz

Ah, yes. Doom is nigh. Again.

Because when is it not. Again.

Dattelis

Haven't people been saying this for the past decade now? "If nothing big will come out xxxx year then the genre is dead/will die/etc." Only thing that will happen is that more people will be hungry for one, nothing else. They'll try the next one (Blue Protocol/Tarisland/TnL/etc), say its garbage and continue to wait for the next one to do the same cycle.

OG_Solareus

The past we had games that seemed more reachable, at this time in point, there's literally nothing on the horizon. The horizon is a dead zone.

I've never see a dead zone like this, there's no products avaialble , it's like mmos are purposely being eradicated.

OG_Solareus

I wanted to say Black Desert's release is when the dead zone began  in 2014. The major releases I think after that was Bless and Elyon.

finefluff

Just wait until I release my dream mmo a couple of decades from now

Dattelis

finefluff said:

Just wait until I release my dream mmo a couple of decades from now

My money is on Star Citizen still being in beta by then.

KnightFalz

Dattelis said:

Haven't people been saying this for the past decade now? "If nothing big will come out xxxx year then the genre is dead/will die/etc." Only thing that will happen is that more people will be hungry for one, nothing else. They'll try the next one (Blue Protocol/Tarisland/TnL/etc), say its garbage and continue to wait for the next one to do the same cycle.

The claim has been enduring.

That it fails to realize is enduring

The rationale for it has occasional variance.

OG_Solareus

The fact remains, from 2003 up until 2014, there was at least 1 or 2 mmos in a open beta or released each year. Now we are getting at most a lobby room games which I dont consider mmos.

Cactus_LFRez

The MMO boom is over for sure but MMOs are largely a victim of their own success

Once companies saw a lot of money in MMOs they all started their own projects to get a piece of the pie
Budgets ballooned and profit margins shrunk as each one fought for a smaller and smaller market share

There was a period with too many MMOs, most of dubious quality

Just like the popularity of 3D platformers eventually led to Bubsy 3D, now they are a niche genre


I don't imagine AAA companies will venture into MMOs again, now that live service games are a cheaper but more profitable option
Really this is a natural extention of MMO design, which always lend themselves to the live service model

Because why would a company invest 100s of millions into a project with niche gameplay, when they could invest a fraction of that into a more popular style of game

So something has to give, and I think it is size and scope.
Maybe something more akin Guild Wars 1 type of games.
But you you are going to have to find a a way to reduce costs if you want to make a niche genre like MMORPGs.

Otherwise if you are waiting for a AAA company to make a massive modern game like Ultima Online, you will probably die waiting.

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OldKingLog

Cactus_LFRez said:

The MMO boom is over for sure but MMOs are largely a victim of their own success

Once companies saw a lot of money in MMOs they all started their own projects to get a piece of the pie
Budgets ballooned and profit margins shrunk as each one fought for a smaller and smaller market share

There was a period with too many MMOs, most of dubious quality

Just like the popularity of 3D platformers eventually led to Bubsy 3D, now they are a niche genre


I don't imagine AAA companies will venture into MMOs again, now that live service games are a cheaper but more profitable option
Really this is a natural extention of MMO design, which always lend themselves to the live service model

Because why would a company invest 100s of millions into a project with niche gameplay, when they could invest a fraction of that into a more popular style of game

So something has to give, and I think it is size and scope.
Maybe something more akin Guild Wars 1 type of games.
But you you are going to have to find a a way to reduce costs if you want to make a niche genre like MMORPGs.

Otherwise if you are waiting for a AAA company to make a massive modern game like Ultima Online, you will probably die waiting.

If you all haven't noticed actual single player games are on the way out as well. The entire industry has shifted focus from entertainment to using games as a service to create Pachinko-esque games. Games with the sole focus of separating consumers from as much money as they can in as short a time as possible.

finefluff

There’s the Riot MMO and new Lord of the Rings MMO in development. Pax Dei as well. And it always seems there’s new Korean mmos coming out. Arche Age 2 and Throne and Liberty for instance.

Germzypie

I think MMO development is on the verge of opening the floodgates due to AI tools.  But I don't think we have been in a drought.  Their just have not been enough games that peak the OP's interest.  Plus, folks just race to end-game and then complain about no content anyways.  Back in the day we could not google where to find and kill a grey ooze to get the key to open the door of the secret dungeon you need to find to get the red crystal of nazareth for Mr. Wilson.  Actually had to run around and find that chit.

Games have changed.  Gamers have changed.  Maybe AI can mix it up a bit.

OldKingLog

finefluff said:

There’s the Riot MMO and new Lord of the Rings MMO in development. Pax Dei as well. And it always seems there’s new Korean mmos coming out. Arche Age 2 and Throne and Liberty for instance.

Yeah the new Riot MMO we've yet to learn anything about with the exception that the main developer behind the game has already jumped ship. Also that new LOTR MMO? Its being made by the same morons that brought us the cluster fuck that is New World.

Scot

OG_Solareus said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?

That was a quick U-Turn

MO2 is not free to play.

I think his signature gives it away.

F2P is dead long live B2P and subscriptions!

Cactus_LFRez

OldKingLog said:

Cactus_LFRez said:

The MMO boom is over for sure but MMOs are largely a victim of their own success

Once companies saw a lot of money in MMOs they all started their own projects to get a piece of the pie
Budgets ballooned and profit margins shrunk as each one fought for a smaller and smaller market share

There was a period with too many MMOs, most of dubious quality

Just like the popularity of 3D platformers eventually led to Bubsy 3D, now they are a niche genre


I don't imagine AAA companies will venture into MMOs again, now that live service games are a cheaper but more profitable option
Really this is a natural extention of MMO design, which always lend themselves to the live service model

Because why would a company invest 100s of millions into a project with niche gameplay, when they could invest a fraction of that into a more popular style of game

So something has to give, and I think it is size and scope.
Maybe something more akin Guild Wars 1 type of games.
But you you are going to have to find a a way to reduce costs if you want to make a niche genre like MMORPGs.

Otherwise if you are waiting for a AAA company to make a massive modern game like Ultima Online, you will probably die waiting.

If you all haven't noticed actual single player games are on the way out as well. The entire industry has shifted focus from entertainment to using games as a service to create Pachinko-esque games. Games with the sole focus of separating consumers from as much money as they can in as short a time as possible.

Live service games are beginning to die as well, most of these things are cyclical 

We already saw a bunch of live service games close within one year of launch
Another case of overestimating the size of the market, plus some truly awful games.
(EG Babylons Fall)

Most of these companies just chase trends, and as soon as you have a breakout hit you see companies dogpile on that genre, over do it, then it collapses.

MOBAs, battle royale, survival games etc.
Once big now sparsely populated
Going farther back, 3D platformers, adventure games, beat em ups, fighting games, RTS etc.

Best thing for most genres is to find a smaller but sustainable niche.

Gorwe

Oh, let's not be dramatic. All it takes are like 2 games in order for a game to get "revived". Or a casual happenstance like a big influencer / youtuber playing a game from the genre.

It's not like I'm gonna cry for the sharp refocus on singleplayer(yay!), but this isn't biology or something so things literally go extinct. 

Neoyoshi

This may as well be a self-perpetuating bubble that bounces around that happy mmo players occasionally kick back and forth while the rest of you suffer inside said bubble.

Have you tried stepping outside the bubble and look for some happiness?

OG_Solareus

Gorwe said:

Oh, let's not be dramatic. All it takes are like 2 games in order for a game to get "revived". Or a casual happenstance like a big influencer / youtuber playing a game from the genre.

It's not like I'm gonna cry for the sharp refocus on singleplayer(yay!), but this isn't biology or something so things literally go extinct. 

extinction is usually from catastrophe ....

Gorwe

OG_Solareus said:

Gorwe said:

Oh, let's not be dramatic. All it takes are like 2 games in order for a game to get "revived". Or a casual happenstance like a big influencer / youtuber playing a game from the genre.

It's not like I'm gonna cry for the sharp refocus on singleplayer(yay!), but this isn't biology or something so things literally go extinct. 

extinction is usually from catastrophe ....

The point I was trying to make was that a genre can't go extinct, more like dormant. So there is no reason to be all drama like.

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MadBomber13

OG_Solareus said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?

That was a quick U-Turn

MO2 is not free to play.

And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???