Oh, let's not be dramatic. All it takes are like 2 games in order for a game to get "revived". Or a casual happenstance like a big influencer / youtuber playing a game from the genre.
It's not like I'm gonna cry for the sharp refocus on singleplayer(yay!), but this isn't biology or something so things literally go extinct.
extinction is usually from catastrophe ....
The point I was trying to make was that a genre can't go extinct, more like dormant. So there is no reason to be all drama like.
Sorry? This is a gamers forum and you expect less drama?
The reality is that the genre doesn’t follow some persons arbitrary rules like ‘release within the next 4 months’ or ‘F2P or it doesn’t exist.’ By just browsing the first page of posts here I can read about Throne and Liberty, Project Mugen and Tarisland. Doesn’t seem dead to me, even if it peaked a couple of years ago. Sometimes it feels like people are actively encouraging the genre to die.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Oh, let's not be dramatic. All it takes are like 2 games in order for a game to get "revived". Or a casual happenstance like a big influencer / youtuber playing a game from the genre.
It's not like I'm gonna cry for the sharp refocus on singleplayer(yay!), but this isn't biology or something so things literally go extinct.
extinction is usually from catastrophe ....
The point I was trying to make was that a genre can't go extinct, more like dormant. So there is no reason to be all drama like.
Sorry? This is a gamers forum and you expect less drama?
Let it at least be meaningful, sorta logical drama. Am I asking for too much?
The genre certainly isn't dead. There are several major MMO's with large populations now, like WoW, FF14, and ESO. LOTRO, SWTOR, GW2, BDO, etc, are more MMO's that are still running with healthy populations.
I bet more people are playing MMO's now than ever before.
Development of an MMO is a long and costly process, and it takes a while to get a good return. Real MMO's are designed to be played for years, and it probably takes years to really get a good return on the large investment needed.
Plus, most of the settings are already used. There are plenty of fantasy MMO's, war MMO's; IP's like Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTRO have MMO's. Comic books have several MMO's. It is harder now to make a splash with something that is already out there for years.
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
We are getting what we pay for....
So we should pay for games that hide behind pay walls for"early" access" and NDA's ? TO say me personally is at fault for the millions who paid ointo WoW, the real murderer of the genre is insane.
Than to add in the decisions of people paying into mobile games,,, my personal choice of only playing f2p has absolutely 0 to do with it.
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
We are getting what we pay for....
So we should pay for games that hide behind pay walls for"early" access" and NDA's ? TO say me personally is at fault for the millions who paid ointo WoW, the real murderer of the genre is insane.
Than to add in the decisions of people paying into mobile games,,, my personal choice of only playing f2p has absolutely 0 to do with it.
Mortal Online 2 not only had you buy the game for "early access" but a year and a half after what they called full launch they just added one of their core promised launch features (territory control).
I would say that someone who said the quote below (and others like them) is far more at fault than people who bought WoW.
OG_Solerus: "Mortal Online 2 is the best vision of what an mmorg can be. The visuals, crafting systems, exploration, sense of fear and pvp are all AAA quality. MO2 is probably the only real AAA mmo in terms of features. No other game comes close to it."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
We are getting what we pay for....
So we should pay for games that hide behind pay walls for"early" access" and NDA's ? TO say me personally is at fault for the millions who paid ointo WoW, the real murderer of the genre is insane.
Than to add in the decisions of people paying into mobile games,,, my personal choice of only playing f2p has absolutely 0 to do with it.
Mortal Online 2 not only had you buy the game for "early access" but a year and a half after what they called full launch they just added one of their core promised launch features (territory control).
I would say that someone who said the quote below (and others like them) is far more at fault than people who bought WoW.
OG_Solerus: "Mortal Online 2 is the best vision of what an mmorg can be. The visuals, crafting systems, exploration, sense of fear and pvp are all AAA quality. MO2 is probably the only real AAA mmo in terms of features. No other game comes close to it."
Also stated that I wasn't aware of mortal online 2 phases.
Your analysis iisn't even logical since Wow was the game that rushed many developers to dumb down content and try and obtain WoW like numbers. Then in 2014 BDO launched, completely a a different entity , got WoW like numbers and it left a huge vaccuum for developers on what kind of content to produce.
Mortal Online 2 is what it is, a great game for people who are looking for a complete AAA mmorpg experience. That experience might not be for people who like WoW and being cuddled by soft mmo mechanics.n That is another topic entirely.
My focus is on 2023 and the lack of effort to produce on a timeline specially Korean developers like NcSoft who seemingly become as lazy as City State when comes to creating a project management timelines...
Then the other factor is money and the dollar are in declining world wide. We are running out of time specially if China becomes the world's reserve in currency with their gold coin currency.
2023 into 2024 is the most important time in our lives in gaming and outside of it. Either Developers come out with complete roadmaps with specific project times lines or places like this will become a bunch of old people whining about mortal online 2 .... o wait..
Then it's a good thing that Uncharted Waters Origin already launched this year, so now the genre is safe.
While some of you were sitting around here whining, I've been having fun playing a game I enjoy. This is the most fun I've had playing an online game since Spiral Knights way back in 2011, and I've been playing UWO for nearly half a year now.
Then it's a good thing that Uncharted Waters Origin already launched this year, so now the genre is safe.
While some of you were sitting around here whining, I've been having fun playing a game I enjoy. This is the most fun I've had playing an online game since Spiral Knights way back in 2011, and I've been playing UWO for nearly half a year now.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
That's the sad reality. Most younger people born within the past 2 decades or so can't even believe games used to not have extra monetization in them. Its honestly all conditioning that people end up accepting because things haven't reverted/shifted regardless of distaste/complaints or they just do not honestly care like people used to. The only things that will cause a 'shift' is if its a well-known franchise doing heavy monetization on platforms that usually are marketed to children (like the whole EA/Battlefront situation which finally made governments around the globe put some kind of rules in place in regards to loot boxes or outright banning them in their countries).
I firmly beleive if a game doesn't release in 2023, the amount of people who will go back to single player games will be so large, that the genre of mmos will die.
There's very little to say, nothing is pushing boundaries, nothing has longevity , nothing current is even updating on a semi annual basis except WoW.
This gnre is so close to failing that I beleive AGS is thinking very hard on not bringing anymore Korean games to its platform.
We've seen droughts, but this is something else. This is a complete absence of productivity with developers and meeting goals and dead lines for consumers. it is like we are all supposed to wait here for decades while the developers and publishers get their shit together.
I think if nothing is released in 2023, I may just move onto something else completely from gaming...
You don't believe anymore. You grew up. This is the end of a gaming era. Just like the year 2000. We finished with the ps2 and moved onto pc, xbox and playstation3. We are about to move onto AI gaming. Nothing lasts forever, but everything evolves. never lose faith in DnD. This time play a magic user.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
I never played a MMORPG for 14 to 18 hours a day and my guess is those kind of hours were more of an outlier rather than the norm.
These games were never designed for that sort of player, in fact I'm sure the early developers were surprised to find out such no lifers even existed.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wasn't it a week ago that you were proselytizing about Mortal Online 2 and how it was "the best vision of what an mmo can be"?
That was a quick U-Turn
MO2 is not free to play.
And??? Free to play wasn't a qualifier in your original gloom & doom post or did I miss something???
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
Signatures don't show up on phone browser clients, not even sure what's on my signature anymore.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
We are getting what we pay for....
So we should pay for games that hide behind pay walls for"early" access" and NDA's ? TO say me personally is at fault for the millions who paid ointo WoW, the real murderer of the genre is insane.
Than to add in the decisions of people paying into mobile games,,, my personal choice of only playing f2p has absolutely 0 to do with it.
Mortal Online 2 not only had you buy the game for "early access" but a year and a half after what they called full launch they just added one of their core promised launch features (territory control).
I would say that someone who said the quote below (and others like them) is far more at fault than people who bought WoW.
OG_Solerus: "Mortal Online 2 is the best vision of what an mmorg can be. The visuals, crafting systems, exploration, sense of fear and pvp are all AAA quality. MO2 is probably the only real AAA mmo in terms of features. No other game comes close to it."
My focus is on 2023 and the lack of effort to produce on a timeline specially Korean developers like NcSoft who seemingly become as lazy as City State when comes to creating a project management timelines...
I remember people say NCsoft's most profit come from their mobile games. I think developers just throw in the tower for pc mmorpg games.
And I don't think we'll ever see Guild Wars 3, because when people realize there will be Guild Wars 3, they'll stop putting money in to Guild Wars 3. Unless Guild Wars 2 is doing so poorly, Arenanet just give up on it.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
I never played a MMORPG for 14 to 18 hours a day and my guess is those kind of hours were more of an outlier rather than the norm.
These games were never designed for that sort of player, in fact I'm sure the early developers were surprised to find out such no lifers even existed.
Whereas today spending 14 to 18 hours a day on social media is not abnormal for a streamer/"influencer". Your online life is more important than your real life and we were supposedly the "no lifers"!
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
I never played a MMORPG for 14 to 18 hours a day and my guess is those kind of hours were more of an outlier rather than the norm.
These games were never designed for that sort of player, in fact I'm sure the early developers were surprised to find out such no lifers even existed.
I can remember spending the complete weekend playing daoc. The pvp was that good. But now, looking back on it i can realize it was a complete waste of time. I miss those days. lol
Then it's a good thing that Uncharted Waters Origin already launched this year, so now the genre is safe.
While some of you were sitting around here whining, I've been having fun playing a game I enjoy. This is the most fun I've had playing an online game since Spiral Knights way back in 2011, and I've been playing UWO for nearly half a year now.
sacriledge naming a mobile game ...
UWO is what crossplay between PC and mobile should be. The nature of the game is that there's nothing remotely twitchy about it and the input controls don't need to be complicated, so nothing important is lost by making it also available for mobile. There are two completely separate rendering paths, so the graphics at sea can push my Vega 64 pretty hard, or the mobile renderer can make the game run fine on a phone or a low end laptop with an integrated GPU.
Meanwhile, there is a major new patch that adds a bunch of new content every four weeks. There is a huge variety of things to do rather than just having to loop one stupid thing endlessly. There are separate servers for PVP and PVE, so you can attack others if you want to, but never have to get attacked by some whale if you don't want to.
People see the gachas and freak out, but the monetization isn't bad at all. Buying gacha tickets is there as a way to give blue whales something to spend money on, but no one else is supposed to buy the gachas. The difference between the blue whale who drops thousands of dollars on the game and the moderate spender who spends $20/month or so is that the former gets S-grade mates immediately, while the latter has to wait until he has enough contracts to upgrade C-grade mates to S-grade, at which point, he catches up. Even the completely free player faces only the additional restriction that he's only going to get the five starting admirals and not the others.
There may be some additional differences at level 65+ content, but nearly six months past launch, hardly anyone is there yet, so I don't know. If you play completely free, it's a very slow leveling game. If you go full blue whale, it's a slightly less slow leveling game. Besides, if a game is fun for a year, and then you hit a wall at endgame, that's a lot better than you'll get from most games.
If more mobile games did things the way that UWO does, then "mobile game" wouldn't be such an epithet.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
It was never healthy to play a game 14-18 hours per day, with perhaps the exception of idle games where most of your time "playing" the game isn't even paying attention to the game. Few people ever actively played games 14-18 hours per day. Games catering to that style isn't something worth being nostalgic for.
Comments
my signature should signify my position on monetization. I actually we pasted doom in gloom in 2021, this is something else entirely.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
But the implication from you post and what someone else said is "if it's not F2P, it doesn't exist?"
If so, then you are the reason AAA developers walked away from making MMORPGS in the old school vein, but its good to know who we can personally blame for the state of things as they are today.
Now, if your motto is "make great MMORPGS no matter what the cost is, you'll pay it (my thinking) then your point is perhaps valid.
We are getting what we pay for....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would say that someone who said the quote below (and others like them) is far more at fault than people who bought WoW.
OG_Solerus: "Mortal Online 2 is the best vision of what an mmorg can be. The visuals, crafting systems, exploration, sense of fear and pvp are all AAA quality. MO2 is probably the only real AAA mmo in terms of features. No other game comes close to it."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
While some of you were sitting around here whining, I've been having fun playing a game I enjoy. This is the most fun I've had playing an online game since Spiral Knights way back in 2011, and I've been playing UWO for nearly half a year now.
sacriledge naming a mobile game ...
That's the sad reality. Most younger people born within the past 2 decades or so can't even believe games used to not have extra monetization in them. Its honestly all conditioning that people end up accepting because things haven't reverted/shifted regardless of distaste/complaints or they just do not honestly care like people used to. The only things that will cause a 'shift' is if its a well-known franchise doing heavy monetization on platforms that usually are marketed to children (like the whole EA/Battlefront situation which finally made governments around the globe put some kind of rules in place in regards to loot boxes or outright banning them in their countries).
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
These games were never designed for that sort of player, in fact I'm sure the early developers were surprised to find out such no lifers even existed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I remember people say NCsoft's most profit come from their mobile games. I think developers just throw in the tower for pc mmorpg games.
And I don't think we'll ever see Guild Wars 3, because when people realize there will be Guild Wars 3, they'll stop putting money in to Guild Wars 3. Unless Guild Wars 2 is doing so poorly, Arenanet just give up on it.
I can remember spending the complete weekend playing daoc. The pvp was that good. But now, looking back on it i can realize it was a complete waste of time. I miss those days. lol
Meanwhile, there is a major new patch that adds a bunch of new content every four weeks. There is a huge variety of things to do rather than just having to loop one stupid thing endlessly. There are separate servers for PVP and PVE, so you can attack others if you want to, but never have to get attacked by some whale if you don't want to.
People see the gachas and freak out, but the monetization isn't bad at all. Buying gacha tickets is there as a way to give blue whales something to spend money on, but no one else is supposed to buy the gachas. The difference between the blue whale who drops thousands of dollars on the game and the moderate spender who spends $20/month or so is that the former gets S-grade mates immediately, while the latter has to wait until he has enough contracts to upgrade C-grade mates to S-grade, at which point, he catches up. Even the completely free player faces only the additional restriction that he's only going to get the five starting admirals and not the others.
There may be some additional differences at level 65+ content, but nearly six months past launch, hardly anyone is there yet, so I don't know. If you play completely free, it's a very slow leveling game. If you go full blue whale, it's a slightly less slow leveling game. Besides, if a game is fun for a year, and then you hit a wall at endgame, that's a lot better than you'll get from most games.
If more mobile games did things the way that UWO does, then "mobile game" wouldn't be such an epithet.