I respectfully decline. I am not a fan of any game or project he has worked on. I respect him as a technical mind but not a fan of any of his work.
Like was said before, what myself and many, many others want is not possible in this lifetime and perhaps the next. It is ok. MMOs played themselves out 20 years ago. They are what they are until there is a quantum jump in technology. There are many other types of games that are fun and rewarding that provide that drip drip drip of dopamine. For me personally mmos are just not it. Cool to those that still find it there.
MMORPGs haven't played themselves out and won't. What they have done and will continue to do is change over time just as every other computer gaming genre has and will.
You can't be serious right? If they haven't played themselves out then where are all these new mmorpgs that prove it? Why is no large publisher or developer taking the genre by storm with their new shiny MMORPG? The genre is terrible and everyone knows. Players, developers and publishers alike.
The Mmorpg genre is the most sideways genre in all of gaming.
The only way they have 'changed' is in how they can weasel more money out of their mobile phone player base with new predatory monetization.
Until technology allows for a quantum leap in computing power and capabilities the genre will remain a husk of it's once mighty potential.
It doesn't matter where the new MMORPGs are. The continued interest in existing ones shows they aren't played out. There have been many changes in MMORPGs that have nothing to do with monetization, so whatever.
The mighty MMORPG potential once had was presumably achieved with less computing power and capability than currently exists. Why then do we need yet more of both to reach that mighty potential again?
Technology isn't the issue. As such, advances in technology will not fix the issue.
I respectfully decline. I am not a fan of any game or project he has worked on. I respect him as a technical mind but not a fan of any of his work.
Like was said before, what myself and many, many others want is not possible in this lifetime and perhaps the next. It is ok. MMOs played themselves out 20 years ago. They are what they are until there is a quantum jump in technology. There are many other types of games that are fun and rewarding that provide that drip drip drip of dopamine. For me personally mmos are just not it. Cool to those that still find it there.
MMORPGs haven't played themselves out and won't. What they have done and will continue to do is change over time just as every other computer gaming genre has and will.
You can't be serious right? If they haven't played themselves out then where are all these new mmorpgs that prove it? Why is no large publisher or developer taking the genre by storm with their new shiny MMORPG? The genre is terrible and everyone knows. Players, developers and publishers alike.
The Mmorpg genre is the most sideways genre in all of gaming.
The only way they have 'changed' is in how they can weasel more money out of their mobile phone player base with new predatory monetization.
Until technology allows for a quantum leap in computing power and capabilities the genre will remain a husk of it's once mighty potential.
It doesn't matter where the new MMORPGs are. The continued interest in existing ones shows they aren't played out. There have been many changes in MMORPGs that have nothing to do with monetization, so whatever.
The mighty MMORPG potential once had was presumably achieved with less computing power and capability than currently exists. Why then do we need yet more of both to reach that mighty potential again?
Technology isn't the issue. As such, advances in technology will not fix the issue.
Kind of agree with this but could Ai fill the void, mayeb, I been running an ai generator for a few days now and what it comes up with from what I ask it to do is pretty good. If enough people who have real sense of depth in game design can harness ai, it could work.
Your loss. Raph talks about changing the game world from being built and sent out to our computers, something that's hard to change in an MMORPG for various reasons. Changing that to art, but not placement in a built world, and then sending out packets live, for the world we see as we play. This seems to be an advancement from what they did with SWG.
I admit Raph is a great designer on some things, especially economy/crafting based implementations.
However I will never be able to take Raph seriously until he understands that some players will gank newbs just for fun, even without incentives. The fact he was the lead Dev and knew ganking was killing the playerbase and was pressured into putting in 19 patches to stop ganking and still couldnt fix it, is ridiculous. He admits the dev after he left finally implemented a PVE safe zone and fixed it immediately on his departure. He still thinks the PVE safe zone was a mistake and if he could just do 1 more patch ... LOL, as if 19 wasnt enough to figure out gankers will always pounce on newbs if given an opportunity.
Guy is clueless on big subsystems revolving around PVP and how they effect PVE players. Now he is talking about having Political systems in an MMO? Yeah thats just what all the PVE'ers want to hear, a system where the PVPers can punish PVEers through taxes and rules.
Guy needs to stick with what he is good at, which is crafting/economy/pve systems/world building.
I respectfully decline. I am not a fan of any game or project he has worked on. I respect him as a technical mind but not a fan of any of his work.
Like was said before, what myself and many, many others want is not possible in this lifetime and perhaps the next. It is ok. MMOs played themselves out 20 years ago. They are what they are until there is a quantum jump in technology. There are many other types of games that are fun and rewarding that provide that drip drip drip of dopamine. For me personally mmos are just not it. Cool to those that still find it there.
MMORPGs haven't played themselves out and won't. What they have done and will continue to do is change over time just as every other computer gaming genre has and will.
You can't be serious right? If they haven't played themselves out then where are all these new mmorpgs that prove it? Why is no large publisher or developer taking the genre by storm with their new shiny MMORPG? The genre is terrible and everyone knows. Players, developers and publishers alike.
The Mmorpg genre is the most sideways genre in all of gaming.
The only way they have 'changed' is in how they can weasel more money out of their mobile phone player base with new predatory monetization.
Until technology allows for a quantum leap in computing power and capabilities the genre will remain a husk of it's once mighty potential.
It doesn't matter where the new MMORPGs are. The continued interest in existing ones shows they aren't played out. There have been many changes in MMORPGs that have nothing to do with monetization, so whatever.
The mighty MMORPG potential once had was presumably achieved with less computing power and capability than currently exists. Why then do we need yet more of both to reach that mighty potential again?
Technology isn't the issue. As such, advances in technology will not fix the issue.
This tech that Raph's working on can help ANY MMOTPG.
One of the big problems with adventuring is that it has the minimum in exploration and surprising discoveries. The reason is that the games are shipped with fixed worlds. With that, tech savvy players hack into that world and find everything, with no MOB interference. Even if a game spawned contents in a secret room, they still know where to go. With this, that secret room (or hidden cave, or whatever) can be sent to the player live after they "trip a switch." Because there's no pre-packaged map to hack into.
Same for traps and the like, or disguised levers and switches.
This is a huge boon for exciting game play that can't be done with those maps included in the box (or download). The Lore events can be much more intriguing, and open to all players rather than those who hacked the answers ahead of time.
Also, the game world can be expanded anytime, without downloads. Entire new sections can be added to dungeons because some player figure out the secret "key" to opening it up.
Your loss. Raph talks about changing the game world from being built and sent out to our computers, something that's hard to change in an MMORPG for various reasons. Changing that to art, but not placement in a built world, and then sending out packets live, for the world we see as we play. This seems to be an advancement from what they did with SWG.
I admit Raph is a great designer on some things, especially economy/crafting based implementations.
However I will never be able to take Raph seriously until he understands that some players will gank newbs just for fun, even without incentives. The fact he was the lead Dev and knew ganking was killing the playerbase and was pressured into putting in 19 patches to stop ganking and still couldnt fix it, is ridiculous. He admits the dev after he left finally implemented a PVE safe zone and fixed it immediately on his departure. He still thinks the PVE safe zone was a mistake and if he could just do 1 more patch ... LOL, as if 19 wasnt enough to figure out gankers will always pounce on newbs if given an opportunity.
Guy is clueless on big subsystems revolving around PVP and how they effect PVE players. Now he is talking about having Political systems in an MMO? Yeah thats just what all the PVE'ers want to hear, a system where the PVPers can punish PVEers through taxes and rules.
Guy needs to stick with what he is good at, which is crafting/economy/pve systems/world building.
No, Raph almost had the answer and it was only a bug that prevented it. The "Blue Healer" bug. But now, as soon as he said that "players could make their own laws", I realized that he's going a more advanced way. I think player run cities and kingdoms will be included with this.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
I respectfully decline. I am not a fan of any game or project he has worked on. I respect him as a technical mind but not a fan of any of his work.
Like was said before, what myself and many, many others want is not possible in this lifetime and perhaps the next. It is ok. MMOs played themselves out 20 years ago. They are what they are until there is a quantum jump in technology. There are many other types of games that are fun and rewarding that provide that drip drip drip of dopamine. For me personally mmos are just not it. Cool to those that still find it there.
MMORPGs haven't played themselves out and won't. What they have done and will continue to do is change over time just as every other computer gaming genre has and will.
You can't be serious right? If they haven't played themselves out then where are all these new mmorpgs that prove it? Why is no large publisher or developer taking the genre by storm with their new shiny MMORPG? The genre is terrible and everyone knows. Players, developers and publishers alike.
The Mmorpg genre is the most sideways genre in all of gaming.
The only way they have 'changed' is in how they can weasel more money out of their mobile phone player base with new predatory monetization.
Until technology allows for a quantum leap in computing power and capabilities the genre will remain a husk of it's once mighty potential.
What changed to diminish the "mighty" potential of MMORPGS, from your arguments you never saw any real potential in the first place, well, not until we get to 25th century technology.
My brother had mighty potential to be a doctor but dropped out a year before med school.
Having potential and realizing it are not the same thing in my book. The genre has always felt unrealized.
Well it's true that the potential was never realised but that's down to a number of factors some of which were outside of the genres control. The obsession gaming has with graphics, one which I champion has not done MMOs any favours in the long run; if you have good graphics you have to start making sacrifices, Massively is usually first to go.
But other elements have been outside of gaming's control, the social aspect of MMOs which was game based became friend based. Social media subsumed social gaming and in that process the community of each game became far less important.
But me, Kyleran and many others are still waiting for a jack-in VR MMORPG that is bigger than the real world. Maybe when the AI's take over will will get one.
I forget, which pill do I take to go back into the Matrix, the red or blue one?
Reality sux!
Yeah, it must have been a bummer to realise that your reality was actually the better world. But hey, they all got to have a rave in the second film while the machines were drilling down to kill them all, so it wasn't all bad.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
I have zero opinion of him. I have not liked a single game he has worked on but I don't hold that against him. My only opinion is the mmorpg I want can't be made yet. It doesnt matter if they put the Tesla guy on the team to help fund it , the team still would not be able to make the simulated world I want. That is what I want. A fully simulated virtual world.
I have zero opinion of him. I have not liked a single game he has worked on but I don't hold that against him. My only opinion is the mmorpg I want can't be made yet. It doesnt matter if they put the Tesla guy on the team to help fund it , the team still would not be able to make the simulated world I want. That is what I want. A fully simulated virtual world.
Like the V World as depicted in the Battlestar Galactica spin off, Caprica.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
Scots asleep, but lets just say Raph's track record for good game delivery has been..."inconsistent" over his early success since his days at SOE and leave it at that.
Credits (26 credits on 22 games)
by Roleby Dateby Moby Scoreby Genre
Business
Metaplace (2009, Browser) President
EverQuest II: Desert of Flames (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Champions: Return to Arms (2005, PlayStation 2) Initial Production (Chief Creative Officer)
EverQuest II (2004, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Design
Field Commander (2006, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Untold Legends: The Warrior's Code (2006, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Trials of Obi-Wan (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Frantix (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
GripShift (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer & Editor
Star Wars: Galaxies - An Empire Divided (2003, Windows) Creative Director
Ultima Online: The Second Age (1998, Windows) Lead Designer
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Lead Designer ("Designer Dragon")
Programming/Engineering
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Additional Programming ("Designer Dragon")
Art/Graphics
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Additional Art ("Designer Dragon")
Thanks
Ultimate Rivals: The Rink (2019, iPhone) Special Thanks
Volume (2015, Windows) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2014, Xbox One) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2014, iPhone) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2012, Windows) Special Thanks
Pillage the Village (2007, Browser) Special Thanks (for his work in Game Theory)
Other
EverQuest II: Kingdom of Sky (2006, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
EverQuest: Prophecy of Ro (2006, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - The Total Experience (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Episode III Rage of the Wookiees (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Jump to Lightspeed (2004, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This tech that Raph's working on can help ANY MMOTPG.
One of the big problems with adventuring is that it has the minimum in exploration and surprising discoveries. The reason is that the games are shipped with fixed worlds. With that, tech savvy players hack into that world and find everything, with no MOB interference. Even if a game spawned contents in a secret room, they still know where to go. With this, that secret room (or hidden cave, or whatever) can be sent to the player live after they "trip a switch." Because there's no pre-packaged map to hack into.
Same for traps and the like, or disguised levers and switches.
This is a huge boon for exciting game play that can't be done with those maps included in the box (or download). The Lore events can be much more intriguing, and open to all players rather than those who hacked the answers ahead of time.
Also, the game world can be expanded anytime, without downloads. Entire new sections can be added to dungeons because some player figure out the secret "key" to opening it up.
We'll see. What the technology can do isn't quite so important as that actually done with it.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
Scots asleep, but lets just say Raph's track record for good game delivery has been..."inconsistent" over his early success since his days at SOE and leave it at that.
Credits (26 credits on 22 games)
by Roleby Dateby Moby Scoreby Genre
Business
Metaplace (2009, Browser) President
EverQuest II: Desert of Flames (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Champions: Return to Arms (2005, PlayStation 2) Initial Production (Chief Creative Officer)
EverQuest II (2004, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Design
Field Commander (2006, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Untold Legends: The Warrior's Code (2006, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Trials of Obi-Wan (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Frantix (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
GripShift (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer
Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade (2005, PSP) Chief Creative Officer & Editor
Star Wars: Galaxies - An Empire Divided (2003, Windows) Creative Director
Ultima Online: The Second Age (1998, Windows) Lead Designer
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Lead Designer ("Designer Dragon")
Programming/Engineering
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Additional Programming ("Designer Dragon")
Art/Graphics
Ultima Online (1997, Windows) Additional Art ("Designer Dragon")
Thanks
Ultimate Rivals: The Rink (2019, iPhone) Special Thanks
Volume (2015, Windows) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2014, Xbox One) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2014, iPhone) Special Thanks
Thomas Was Alone (2012, Windows) Special Thanks
Pillage the Village (2007, Browser) Special Thanks (for his work in Game Theory)
Other
EverQuest II: Kingdom of Sky (2006, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
EverQuest: Prophecy of Ro (2006, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - The Total Experience (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Episode III Rage of the Wookiees (2005, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
Star Wars: Galaxies - Jump to Lightspeed (2004, Windows) Chief Creative Officer
UO is still running after all these years. It was the first true massive MMO, and it had issues stemming from gamers (totally rampant PKing and other player abuses) that no one could foresee would be so dominating, so bad. I mean, players PKing for half a day, every day? It was also a game made with very limited resources and a smallish team (for a "AAA" title.) Hell, the experts thought they'd only sell 30k copies LIFETIME. And yet, UO far outsold the predictions. And as I said, Raph almost had the PKer situation fixed except for a bug.
SWG, yeah, Raph was an inconsistent failure based on...what? That when they moved away from him the game went into the pits?
Metaplace, yeah, inconsistent failure, right? He sold it to Disney, and that's hardly a failure.
The EverQuest stuff isn't very meaningful, he was stuck with their existing design, for good or bad.
This tech that Raph's working on can help ANY MMOTPG.
One of the big problems with adventuring is that it has the minimum in exploration and surprising discoveries. The reason is that the games are shipped with fixed worlds. With that, tech savvy players hack into that world and find everything, with no MOB interference. Even if a game spawned contents in a secret room, they still know where to go. With this, that secret room (or hidden cave, or whatever) can be sent to the player live after they "trip a switch." Because there's no pre-packaged map to hack into.
Same for traps and the like, or disguised levers and switches.
This is a huge boon for exciting game play that can't be done with those maps included in the box (or download). The Lore events can be much more intriguing, and open to all players rather than those who hacked the answers ahead of time.
Also, the game world can be expanded anytime, without downloads. Entire new sections can be added to dungeons because some player figure out the secret "key" to opening it up.
We'll see. What the technology can do isn't quite so important as that actually done with it.
That's true. But I think people are being way too negative about it. It's exciting stuff. A huge leap ahead for MMO's. Especially for a "worldly simulation."
This tech that Raph's working on can help ANY MMOTPG.
One of the big problems with adventuring is that it has the minimum in exploration and surprising discoveries. The reason is that the games are shipped with fixed worlds. With that, tech savvy players hack into that world and find everything, with no MOB interference. Even if a game spawned contents in a secret room, they still know where to go. With this, that secret room (or hidden cave, or whatever) can be sent to the player live after they "trip a switch." Because there's no pre-packaged map to hack into.
Same for traps and the like, or disguised levers and switches.
This is a huge boon for exciting game play that can't be done with those maps included in the box (or download). The Lore events can be much more intriguing, and open to all players rather than those who hacked the answers ahead of time.
Also, the game world can be expanded anytime, without downloads. Entire new sections can be added to dungeons because some player figure out the secret "key" to opening it up.
We'll see. What the technology can do isn't quite so important as that actually done with it.
That's true. But I think people are being way too negative about it. It's exciting stuff. A huge leap ahead for MMO's. Especially for a "worldly simulation."
The point being is it's all just a thought experiment right now.
Once the game, simulation, or whatever he's building is released we'll find out how "exciting" it will be.
He hasn't had a real hit since his early days and it's all about "what have you done for me lately."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
I think you have got the wrong end of the stick about what I am saying, all I am getting at is we have seen the likes of Richard Garriott come back and give us something that was not a success even on it's own terms as a smaller MMO. So can Ralph pull it out pf the bag? Maybe, we shall see. I will say one thing in his favour, he has posted on these forums, which Garriot never did.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
I think you have got the wrong end of the stick about what I am saying, all I am getting at is we have seen the likes of Richard Garriott come back and give us something that was not a success even on it's own terms as a smaller MMO. So can Ralph pull it out pf the bag? Maybe, we shall see. I will say one thing in his favour, he has posted on these forums, which Garriot never did.
Raph isn't Richard. Raph isn't guilty of failed games, as I've explained. Raph was never guilty of bad decisions, only unexpected player craziness in the very beginning. Raph built a successful SWG, and then it was ruined by the company after bumping him up and out of the way, because they didn't match WoW and wanted to be more like WoW. And what's really funny about it all is that other companies in the WoW Clone style, who didn't have a wont for Raph's more worldly skills, and actually are examples (mostly) of failures and only "succeed by CS, et.al." while the MMORPG genre peters away from stagnation, and HE'S the one you guys laugh at mockingly?
For the life of me (although taken by many o' PKers), I cannot understand this kind of unjustified negativity displayed towards him in this thread (and many other places over the years).
Some of you guys are backtracking now. Yeah, it sounds reasonable, "wait and see", but after the bad attitude came first. (And I see another person joined the chorus.) This is Voxels on steroids. It's game changing. And it's been partially done successfully before with SWG by...guess who...Raph Koster.
It should be met with excitement, instead it's treated like a wet blanket.
The hesitation is warranted. You obvious are a champion for his cause but you can’t honestly be surprised by anyone doubting a developer claiming anything.
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
I think you have got the wrong end of the stick about what I am saying, all I am getting at is we have seen the likes of Richard Garriott come back and give us something that was not a success even on it's own terms as a smaller MMO. So can Ralph pull it out pf the bag? Maybe, we shall see. I will say one thing in his favour, he has posted on these forums, which Garriot never did.
Raph isn't Richard. Raph isn't guilty of failed games, as I've explained. Raph was never guilty of bad decisions, only unexpected player craziness in the very beginning. Raph built a successful SWG, and then it was ruined by the company after bumping him up and out of the way, because they didn't match WoW and wanted to be more like WoW. And what's really funny about it all is that other companies in the WoW Clone style, who didn't have a wont for Raph's more worldly skills, and actually are examples (mostly) of failures and only "succeed by CS, et.al." while the MMORPG genre peters away from stagnation, and HE'S the one you guys laugh at mockingly?
For the life of me (although taken by many o' PKers), I cannot understand this kind of unjustified negativity displayed towards him in this thread (and many other places over the years).
Some of you guys are backtracking now. Yeah, it sounds reasonable, "wait and see", but after the bad attitude came first. (And I see another person joined the chorus.) This is Voxels on steroids. It's game changing. And it's been partially done successfully before with SWG by...guess who...Raph Koster.
It should be met with excitement, instead it's treated like a wet blanket.
Oh, I'm not backtracking, I'll double down thanks to your reference about his sale of Metaplace to Disney. Him getting rich selling to suckers hardly is a good example in this conversation.
That was some real sh!t there that never resulted in any sort of quality games, at least none that I would ever care to play.
It all closed down years ago as a failed experiment which oddly enough seems to lay the underpinnings of his latest work, so yeah, not expecting this to deliver a successful MMORPG, nevermind a good game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a lot of respect for Ralph's achievements but we have been here before, only the reviews will tell us if an old dog can come up with some knew tricks.
We've been here before with Raph? I'm not sure what you're talking about, since you sound like it was some failure or something.
Oh come on, you two laughers. If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
I think you have got the wrong end of the stick about what I am saying, all I am getting at is we have seen the likes of Richard Garriott come back and give us something that was not a success even on it's own terms as a smaller MMO. So can Ralph pull it out pf the bag? Maybe, we shall see. I will say one thing in his favour, he has posted on these forums, which Garriot never did.
Raph isn't Richard. Raph isn't guilty of failed games, as I've explained. Raph was never guilty of bad decisions, only unexpected player craziness in the very beginning. Raph built a successful SWG, and then it was ruined by the company after bumping him up and out of the way, because they didn't match WoW and wanted to be more like WoW. And what's really funny about it all is that other companies in the WoW Clone style, who didn't have a wont for Raph's more worldly skills, and actually are examples (mostly) of failures and only "succeed by CS, et.al." while the MMORPG genre peters away from stagnation, and HE'S the one you guys laugh at mockingly?
For the life of me (although taken by many o' PKers), I cannot understand this kind of unjustified negativity displayed towards him in this thread (and many other places over the years).
Some of you guys are backtracking now. Yeah, it sounds reasonable, "wait and see", but after the bad attitude came first. (And I see another person joined the chorus.) This is Voxels on steroids. It's game changing. And it's been partially done successfully before with SWG by...guess who...Raph Koster.
It should be met with excitement, instead it's treated like a wet blanket.
Oh, I'm not backtracking, I'll double down thanks to your reference about his sale of Metaplace to Disney. Him getting rich selling to suckers hardly is a good example in this conversation.
That was some real sh!t there that never resulted in any sort of quality games, at least none that I would ever care to play.
It all closed down years ago as a failed experiment which oddly enough seems to lay the underpinnings of his latest work, so yeah, not expecting this to deliver a successful MMORPG, nevermind a good game.
Bottom line, he hasn't made or even been part of a decent MMORPG release since he left SOE back in 2005.
One of his most recent MMO consulting gigs, Crowfall...uhh yeah..wonder if he forgot to bring along his copy on putting the fun into gaming?
Oh yeah, Crowfall wasn't fun so blame the consultant. Brilliant.
MetaPlace was in your list, so don't thank me. I'm not sure what happened with MetaPlace, but again, there were other people involved in running it when it didn't work. Not sure how you blame Raph for that. Nor how you think Disney was some sort of fly-by-night outfit that didn't have a clue when they bought it. Mainly, I think it just didn't click with amateur game developers as "too much work."
Meanwhile, there's the positives, primarily UO and SWG.
Again, just throwing negatives at a target of choice, just because.
Comments
Technology isn't the issue. As such, advances in technology will not fix the issue.
However I will never be able to take Raph seriously until he understands that some players will gank newbs just for fun, even without incentives. The fact he was the lead Dev and knew ganking was killing the playerbase and was pressured into putting in 19 patches to stop ganking and still couldnt fix it, is ridiculous. He admits the dev after he left finally implemented a PVE safe zone and fixed it immediately on his departure. He still thinks the PVE safe zone was a mistake and if he could just do 1 more patch ... LOL, as if 19 wasnt enough to figure out gankers will always pounce on newbs if given an opportunity.
Guy is clueless on big subsystems revolving around PVP and how they effect PVE players. Now he is talking about having Political systems in an MMO? Yeah thats just what all the PVE'ers want to hear, a system where the PVPers can punish PVEers through taxes and rules.
Guy needs to stick with what he is good at, which is crafting/economy/pve systems/world building.
One of the big problems with adventuring is that it has the minimum in exploration and surprising discoveries. The reason is that the games are shipped with fixed worlds. With that, tech savvy players hack into that world and find everything, with no MOB interference. Even if a game spawned contents in a secret room, they still know where to go.
With this, that secret room (or hidden cave, or whatever) can be sent to the player live after they "trip a switch." Because there's no pre-packaged map to hack into.
Same for traps and the like, or disguised levers and switches.
This is a huge boon for exciting game play that can't be done with those maps included in the box (or download).
The Lore events can be much more intriguing, and open to all players rather than those who hacked the answers ahead of time.
Also, the game world can be expanded anytime, without downloads. Entire new sections can be added to dungeons because some player figure out the secret "key" to opening it up.
Once upon a time....
But now, as soon as he said that
"players could make their own laws", I realized that he's going a more advanced way.
I think player run cities and kingdoms will be included with this.
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....
If you're laughing at the comment, have the guts to say why so I can shoot your guns outa yer holsters.
Once upon a time....
My only opinion is the mmorpg I want can't be made yet.
It doesnt matter if they put the Tesla guy on the team to help fund it , the team still would not be able to make the simulated world I want.
That is what I want. A fully simulated virtual world.
https://en.battlestarwikiclone.org/wiki/Virtual_world
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Credits (26 credits on 22 games)
https://www.mobygames.com/person/327570/raphael-koster/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
UO is still running after all these years. It was the first true massive MMO, and it had issues stemming from gamers (totally rampant PKing and other player abuses) that no one could foresee would be so dominating, so bad. I mean, players PKing for half a day, every day?
It was also a game made with very limited resources and a smallish team (for a "AAA" title.) Hell, the experts thought they'd only sell 30k copies LIFETIME.
And yet, UO far outsold the predictions.
And as I said, Raph almost had the PKer situation fixed except for a bug.
SWG, yeah, Raph was an inconsistent failure based on...what? That when they moved away from him the game went into the pits?
Metaplace, yeah, inconsistent failure, right? He sold it to Disney, and that's hardly a failure.
The EverQuest stuff isn't very meaningful, he was stuck with their existing design, for good or bad.
Once upon a time....
It's exciting stuff. A huge leap ahead for MMO's.
Especially for a "worldly simulation."
Once upon a time....
Once the game, simulation, or whatever he's building is released we'll find out how "exciting" it will be.
He hasn't had a real hit since his early days and it's all about "what have you done for me lately."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Raph isn't guilty of failed games, as I've explained.
Raph was never guilty of bad decisions, only unexpected player craziness in the very beginning.
Raph built a successful SWG, and then it was ruined by the company after bumping him up and out of the way, because they didn't match WoW and wanted to be more like WoW.
And what's really funny about it all is that other companies in the WoW Clone style, who didn't have a wont for Raph's more worldly skills, and actually are examples (mostly) of failures and only "succeed by CS, et.al." while the MMORPG genre peters away from stagnation, and HE'S the one you guys laugh at mockingly?
For the life of me (although taken by many o' PKers), I cannot understand this kind of unjustified negativity displayed towards him in this thread (and many other places over the years).
Some of you guys are backtracking now. Yeah, it sounds reasonable, "wait and see", but after the bad attitude came first. (And I see another person joined the chorus.)
This is Voxels on steroids.
It's game changing.
And it's been partially done successfully before with SWG by...guess who...Raph Koster.
It should be met with excitement, instead it's treated like a wet blanket.
Once upon a time....
See what I mean?
What, negativity is the new sexy?
Once upon a time....
That was some real sh!t there that never resulted in any sort of quality games, at least none that I would ever care to play.
It all closed down years ago as a failed experiment which oddly enough seems to lay the underpinnings of his latest work, so yeah, not expecting this to deliver a successful MMORPG, nevermind a good game.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playdom-announces-acquisition-of-metaplace-98051494.html
Bottom line, he hasn't made or even been part of a decent MMORPG release since he left SOE back in 2005.
One of his most recent MMO consulting gigs, Crowfall...uhh yeah..wonder if he forgot to bring along his copy on putting the fun into gaming?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MetaPlace was in your list, so don't thank me.
I'm not sure what happened with MetaPlace, but again, there were other people involved in running it when it didn't work. Not sure how you blame Raph for that. Nor how you think Disney was some sort of fly-by-night outfit that didn't have a clue when they bought it. Mainly, I think it just didn't click with amateur game developers as "too much work."
Meanwhile, there's the positives, primarily UO and SWG.
Again, just throwing negatives at a target of choice, just because.
Once upon a time....