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The Degradation of MMORPG Worlds/Leveling

2

Comments

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    Quizzical said:
    You're largely correct, but DDO and LotRO at least have adjustable difficulty.  If you want the game to be hard during the leveling process, those allow you to make it so.  Both allow the difficulty to scale all the way up to being nearly impossible, so it's not like how some games have a choice between too easy and way too easy.
    The problem with adjustable difficulty and I am not saying its a huge problem because MMORPG's were taken over by solo players, but for those who play in a guild expecting someone to hold themselves back with a higher difficulty setting is a big ask. This is the same as expecting players not to use the best leveling options and so on, you just have to let your members go at their own pace. But this means you have fragmented what the guild wants to do which goes against what guilds were designed to do in the first place, bring players together.
    It's not a big ask. There are many guilds devoted to a specific purpose such as high-end raiding. A guild focused only on playing at higher difficulties is no different.

    You don't have to let members go at their own pace in a guild established for members to go at the same pace. People that don't want to be so confined need not join it.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    nate1980 said:
    I'm finished with the first-generation MMORPG's. I've had my fill of them a long time ago. The second generation of MMORPG's, like EQ2/WoW, is probably what I'm looking at. The latest generation of MMORPG's, ones released post 2010 are, as you say, made to be easy and collection simulators. 

    I won't play EMU servers, because I don't trust the people running them. They're under no obligation to run them fairly or to keep the servers going for 10-20+ years, which is how long many MMORPG's have been running at this point. 

    Project Gorgon looks like it appeals to the original MMORPG community, which I appreciate, but it's still in Early Access. 

    Early Access is a poor indicator of completion state as it applies from everything barely out the gate to on the cusp of release.

    In the case of P:G things are fairly far along and you'll find there are plenty of things to do for a long, long time if you should decide to play the game. It also has an extensive demo so you can give it a good go before before purchase to see if it will suit your tastes.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Scot said:
    Quizzical said:
    You're largely correct, but DDO and LotRO at least have adjustable difficulty.  If you want the game to be hard during the leveling process, those allow you to make it so.  Both allow the difficulty to scale all the way up to being nearly impossible, so it's not like how some games have a choice between too easy and way too easy.
    The problem with adjustable difficulty and I am not saying its a huge problem because MMORPG's were taken over by solo players, but for those who play in a guild expecting someone to hold themselves back with a higher difficulty setting is a big ask. This is the same as expecting players not to use the best leveling options and so on, you just have to let your members go at their own pace. But this means you have fragmented what the guild wants to do which goes against what guilds were designed to do in the first place, bring players together.
    It's not a big ask. There are many guilds devoted to a specific purpose such as high-end raiding. A guild focused only on playing at higher difficulties is no different.

    You don't have to let members go at their own pace in a guild established for members to go at the same pace. People that don't want to be so confined need not join it.
    Most guilds are not high end guilds, so it effects most guilds.
  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,238
    edited October 2023
    Game populations are so fickle and transient I'm surprised guilds even get formed, let alone survive and prosper.  Players maybe put a few months in at most and then it's off and onwards to the latest new game.
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,750
    This idea that a video game is worth dedicating years of your life to is laughable. Like seriously you guys need to consider how your obituary is going to read. "Dedicated hardcore raider that wasted his life in front of a computer entering himself at the expense of having any real life relationships of significance." What's even more mind boggling is you hop on these forums and look down your nose at people who don't do that. You're like meth addicts looking down at people who aren't addicted to meth like you are, even the casual meth heads. If their teeth aren't falling out and their eyes sunk into their faces like a skull then man they are just not worth your time. Some of you really need to examine your life choices.
    KyleranAbimor
  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    nate1980 said:
    I'm finished with the first-generation MMORPG's. I've had my fill of them a long time ago. The second generation of MMORPG's, like EQ2/WoW, is probably what I'm looking at. The latest generation of MMORPG's, ones released post 2010 are, as you say, made to be easy and collection simulators. 

    I won't play EMU servers, because I don't trust the people running them. They're under no obligation to run them fairly or to keep the servers going for 10-20+ years, which is how long many MMORPG's have been running at this point. 

    Project Gorgon looks like it appeals to the original MMORPG community, which I appreciate, but it's still in Early Access. 

    Early Access is a poor indicator of completion state as it applies from everything barely out the gate to on the cusp of release.

    In the case of P:G things are fairly far along and you'll find there are plenty of things to do for a long, long time if you should decide to play the game. It also has an extensive demo so you can give it a good go before before purchase to see if it will suit your tastes.
    What it comes down to for me is my time is valuable. So, I'm judicious in which games I play due to my limited time available to play them. If a developer doesn't have enough confidence to push their game out of Early Access, then I don't have faith that my time will be well spent playing that game. It's nothing personal to the developers or their games. If/when their games are great, they'll be pushed as a full released product on Steam.
  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    edited October 2023
    Dibdabs said:
    Game populations are so fickle and transient I'm surprised guilds even get formed, let alone survive and prosper.  Players maybe put a few months in at most and then it's off and onwards to the latest new game.
    In the early days of this genre, I didn't feel guilds were needed. People were pleasant to be around and were willing to group. I primarily PUG'd everything in DAoC and SWG. That's not  to say I never joined a guild, it's just that they didn't provide anything special usually that PUGing didn't fill. I primarily would join a RP guild in a game like SWG, because RP was easy to do back then because the game supported it better.

    In MMORPG's post WoW, I think people say "join a guild," because the community has degraded from what it once was. People were inclusive in PUG's in the early days, so you didn't need a guild. These days the community is full of elitists and are obsessed with mix/maxing everything from gear, character builds, and group/raid comps. So guilds are necessary if you want to avoid the toxicity and find like-minded people. Or so people will say. For an example of inclusiveness, I'll use DAOC leveling as an example. Because you grouped primarily to level, everyone had a deep understanding of every classes strength and weaknesses. It just came with so much exposure. While there were "optimal" team comps for maximizing xp/hr, people would invite whoever and just maximize the strengths of the people they had in their group while minimizing the weaknesses. These days, people don't have the desire to run sub-optimal groups, but the landscape of the genre is different as is when people are primarily grouping (leveling versus end game dungeons/raids).

    I still prefer no guilds, because I can't commit to raid schedules and I've yet to find a guild that'll drop everything they're doing once I get on to do group content with me.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    edited October 2023
    Games are not staying up for long aside from those really ancient ones that are still chugging along. It is hard to simply state what you want and find it because the landscape has completely altered.

     If older games are simply not your cup of tea or if you are not willing to play on private servers that are doing many exciting things with advancing stories and changing rule sets and even adding classes and have a dedicated population because you are worried about how long they may last, the choices are limited.

    If I am entertained for a year now I consider that a really fortunate thing. My expectations have been pared down and I have found that I am happier for it.
    ScotSovrath

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    kitarad said:
    Games are not staying up for long aside from those really ancient ones that are still chugging along. It is hard to simply state what you want and find it because the landscape has completely altered.

     If older games are simply not your cup of tea or if you are not willing to play on private servers that are doing many exciting things with advancing stories and changing rule sets and even adding classes and have a dedicated population because you are worried about how long they may last, the choices are limited.

    If I am entertained for a year now I consider that a really fortunate thing. My expectations have been pared down and I have found that I am happier for it.
    This is speaking to me, Cheynane said something similar the other week I am going to reevaluate what I am looking for.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,851
    kitarad said:
    Games are not staying up for long aside from those really ancient ones that are still chugging along. It is hard to simply state what you want and find it because the landscape has completely altered.

     If older games are simply not your cup of tea or if you are not willing to play on private servers that are doing many exciting things with advancing stories and changing rule sets and even adding classes and have a dedicated population because you are worried about how long they may last, the choices are limited.

    If I am entertained for a year now I consider that a really fortunate thing. My expectations have been pared down and I have found that I am happier for it.
    Man, if that's not a positive take then I don't know what is. 
    Me, I'm the opposite. My expectations are higher than ever, and I'm more unhappy (with current gaming) than ever. 

    Once upon a time....

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Quizzical said:
    You're largely correct, but DDO and LotRO at least have adjustable difficulty.  If you want the game to be hard during the leveling process, those allow you to make it so.  Both allow the difficulty to scale all the way up to being nearly impossible, so it's not like how some games have a choice between too easy and way too easy.
    The problem with adjustable difficulty and I am not saying its a huge problem because MMORPG's were taken over by solo players, but for those who play in a guild expecting someone to hold themselves back with a higher difficulty setting is a big ask. This is the same as expecting players not to use the best leveling options and so on, you just have to let your members go at their own pace. But this means you have fragmented what the guild wants to do which goes against what guilds were designed to do in the first place, bring players together.
    It's not a big ask. There are many guilds devoted to a specific purpose such as high-end raiding. A guild focused only on playing at higher difficulties is no different.

    You don't have to let members go at their own pace in a guild established for members to go at the same pace. People that don't want to be so confined need not join it.
    Most guilds are not high end guilds, so it effects most guilds.

    Most guilds are not high end but no guild need be to require members to adhere to a particular focus.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Angrakhan said:
    This idea that a video game is worth dedicating years of your life to is laughable. Like seriously you guys need to consider how your obituary is going to read. "Dedicated hardcore raider that wasted his life in front of a computer entering himself at the expense of having any real life relationships of significance." What's even more mind boggling is you hop on these forums and look down your nose at people who don't do that. You're like meth addicts looking down at people who aren't addicted to meth like you are, even the casual meth heads. If their teeth aren't falling out and their eyes sunk into their faces like a skull then man they are just not worth your time. Some of you really need to examine your life choices.

    What's yours going to read?

    "Forum impotent that wasted his life critiquing others over matters that weren't his concern as he was unable to separate his business from that of theirs."

    What is mind boggling is that you feel you are in a position to judge anyone for what they do or not.

    You have your own life to mind. Stick with that. Maybe you know enough about yourself to at least not act the fool in regard to your personal matters.
    Cogohi
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    nate1980 said:
    nate1980 said:
    I'm finished with the first-generation MMORPG's. I've had my fill of them a long time ago. The second generation of MMORPG's, like EQ2/WoW, is probably what I'm looking at. The latest generation of MMORPG's, ones released post 2010 are, as you say, made to be easy and collection simulators. 

    I won't play EMU servers, because I don't trust the people running them. They're under no obligation to run them fairly or to keep the servers going for 10-20+ years, which is how long many MMORPG's have been running at this point. 

    Project Gorgon looks like it appeals to the original MMORPG community, which I appreciate, but it's still in Early Access. 

    Early Access is a poor indicator of completion state as it applies from everything barely out the gate to on the cusp of release.

    In the case of P:G things are fairly far along and you'll find there are plenty of things to do for a long, long time if you should decide to play the game. It also has an extensive demo so you can give it a good go before before purchase to see if it will suit your tastes.
    What it comes down to for me is my time is valuable. So, I'm judicious in which games I play due to my limited time available to play them. If a developer doesn't have enough confidence to push their game out of Early Access, then I don't have faith that my time will be well spent playing that game. It's nothing personal to the developers or their games. If/when their games are great, they'll be pushed as a full released product on Steam.

    Everyone's time is valuable.

    A refusal to play all games in Early Access is not judicious. It is blanket rejection in lieu of judgment. But to each their own!

    Regardless, the demo for P:G will probably still be available when the game reaches full release. Perhaps if you are still looking for something to play then you'll be more interested in giving it a go.

    What may suit you and is released is Embers Adrift. It is more challenging and group focused than most MMORPGs of recent times. While the player base is small people are generally helpful and pleasant, likely partly due to their mutual interdependence for most of the content.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Quizzical said:
    You're largely correct, but DDO and LotRO at least have adjustable difficulty.  If you want the game to be hard during the leveling process, those allow you to make it so.  Both allow the difficulty to scale all the way up to being nearly impossible, so it's not like how some games have a choice between too easy and way too easy.
    The problem with adjustable difficulty and I am not saying its a huge problem because MMORPG's were taken over by solo players, but for those who play in a guild expecting someone to hold themselves back with a higher difficulty setting is a big ask. This is the same as expecting players not to use the best leveling options and so on, you just have to let your members go at their own pace. But this means you have fragmented what the guild wants to do which goes against what guilds were designed to do in the first place, bring players together.
    It's not a big ask. There are many guilds devoted to a specific purpose such as high-end raiding. A guild focused only on playing at higher difficulties is no different.

    You don't have to let members go at their own pace in a guild established for members to go at the same pace. People that don't want to be so confined need not join it.
    Most guilds are not high end guilds, so it effects most guilds.

    Most guilds are not high end but no guild need be to require members to adhere to a particular focus.
    Well yes they do unless they are uber lite casuals.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    I do not even understand how that's political but if it is can I ask once again that posters stop the politics or they will get banned. We don't want to lose good posters.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Quizzical said:
    You're largely correct, but DDO and LotRO at least have adjustable difficulty.  If you want the game to be hard during the leveling process, those allow you to make it so.  Both allow the difficulty to scale all the way up to being nearly impossible, so it's not like how some games have a choice between too easy and way too easy.
    The problem with adjustable difficulty and I am not saying its a huge problem because MMORPG's were taken over by solo players, but for those who play in a guild expecting someone to hold themselves back with a higher difficulty setting is a big ask. This is the same as expecting players not to use the best leveling options and so on, you just have to let your members go at their own pace. But this means you have fragmented what the guild wants to do which goes against what guilds were designed to do in the first place, bring players together.
    It's not a big ask. There are many guilds devoted to a specific purpose such as high-end raiding. A guild focused only on playing at higher difficulties is no different.

    You don't have to let members go at their own pace in a guild established for members to go at the same pace. People that don't want to be so confined need not join it.
    Most guilds are not high end guilds, so it effects most guilds.

    Most guilds are not high end but no guild need be to require members to adhere to a particular focus.
    Well yes they do unless they are uber lite casuals.

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    ScotCogohi
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited October 2023

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited October 2023
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
    It may be down to how we both approach a guild ourselves, what do you look for? For me I look for a mature guild of lite role-players. So focus is really important, heavy role-players ( a truly rare bird in MMOs these days), hardcore raiding only and so on is not for me.

    People who have a similar focus do tend to drift together. So lets say crafting is not mentioned, well if you are a crafter you will probably get in with those that are, there I don't think a focus is needed. But that's because I am not the crafting sort, for some players they will want to see that mentioned. So to me we tend to look for focus on certain parts of the MMO important to us and drift in to other areas of mutual activity. An example there is that I don't join a guild to raid, but in every guild I have been in I have been prominent in raiding and obviously enjoyed it.

    When I say mentioned I am talking about looking for guild webpages, if you are going to find a guild for you then you do need to do some work.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
    It may be down to how we both approach a guild ourselves, what do you look for? For me I look for a mature guild of lite role-players. So focus is really important, heavy role-players ( a truly rare bird in MMOs these days), hardcore raiding only and so on is not for me.

    People who have a similar focus do tend to drift together. So lets say crafting is not mentioned, well if you are a crafter you will probably get in with those that are, there I don't think a focus is needed. But that's because I am not the crafting sort, for some players they will want to see that mentioned. So to me we tend to look for focus on certain parts of the MMO important to us and drift in to other areas of mutual activity. An example there is that I don't join a guild to raid, but in every guild I have been in I have been prominent in raiding and obviously enjoyed it.

    When I say mentioned I am talking about looking for guild webpages, if you are going to find a guild for you then you do need to do some work.

    I don't approach guilds for the most part as my experience with them has been mostly negative.

    The one I did enjoy being in was Golden Age Heroes, on the Virtue server of CoH. I joined it for theme mostly along with the role-play opportunity that it offered. The members were also decent but that was generally true of the overall population, which contributed to my interest in being in a guild at all. The chance of a negative experience was low.

    In a crafting guild the focus is crafting and often the marketing of that crafted. Those that don't craft will get little benefit from them so won't seek out membership in such a guild. People will of course look for guilds where the focus of them aligns with their own.

    It does take some effort to find and then join a decent guild. For the GAH, my initial contact with them was through a meet and greet advertised in the game forums. Membership required an application including one's character background and a picture of them in costume. This was followed by an in game interview in character if your application piqued their interest. If successful at that stage there was a trial period of a think about a month before full membership was granted.

    A guild that randomly tosses you an unsolicited invitation when you are in the middle of combat probably has a pretty low chance of being decent.
    ScotCogohiAbimor
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,851
    edited October 2023
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
    It may be down to how we both approach a guild ourselves, what do you look for? For me I look for a mature guild of lite role-players. So focus is really important, heavy role-players ( a truly rare bird in MMOs these days), hardcore raiding only and so on is not for me.

    People who have a similar focus do tend to drift together. So lets say crafting is not mentioned, well if you are a crafter you will probably get in with those that are, there I don't think a focus is needed. But that's because I am not the crafting sort, for some players they will want to see that mentioned. So to me we tend to look for focus on certain parts of the MMO important to us and drift in to other areas of mutual activity. An example there is that I don't join a guild to raid, but in every guild I have been in I have been prominent in raiding and obviously enjoyed it.

    When I say mentioned I am talking about looking for guild webpages, if you are going to find a guild for you then you do need to do some work.

    I don't approach guilds for the most part as my experience with them has been mostly negative.

    The one I did enjoy being in was Golden Age Heroes, on the Virtue server of CoH. I joined it for theme mostly along with the role-play opportunity that it offered. The members were also decent but that was generally true of the overall population, which contributed to my interest in being in a guild at all. The chance of a negative experience was low.

    In a crafting guild the focus is crafting and often the marketing of that crafted. Those that don't craft will get little benefit from them so won't seek out membership in such a guild. People will of course look for guilds where the focus of them aligns with their own.

    It does take some effort to find and then join a decent guild. For the GAH, my initial contact with them was through a meet and greet advertised in the game forums. Membership required an application including one's character background and a picture of them in costume. This was followed by an in game interview in character if your application piqued their interest. If successful at that stage there was a trial period of a think about a month before full membership was granted.

    A guild that randomly tosses you an unsolicited invitation when you are in the middle of combat probably has a pretty low chance of being decent.
    I had entirely negative outcomes to any guild I tried out in any game since my UO days. 
    It was always about the level divisions, I had a family and just couldn't keep up with the members. People race through Levels in games, and that's an issue when Level Division is present. I think in more modern terms, with Scaling, that might not be an issue anymore, but I know people still race through Levels and that means they don't spend any time "smelling the flowers", which I like to do in various ways. 

    I was in two guilds in UO, both I found just by playing the game (due to like interests), and both were very good experiences. I saw a lot of other guilds that were interesting to me, too, but I was already involved with the other two. 
    Plus, there was no problem with "Levelling out." 

    Once upon a time....

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Angrakhan said:
    This idea that a video game is worth dedicating years of your life to is laughable. Like seriously you guys need to consider how your obituary is going to read. "Dedicated hardcore raider that wasted his life in front of a computer entering himself at the expense of having any real life relationships of significance." What's even more mind boggling is you hop on these forums and look down your nose at people who don't do that. You're like meth addicts looking down at people who aren't addicted to meth like you are, even the casual meth heads. If their teeth aren't falling out and their eyes sunk into their faces like a skull then man they are just not worth your time. Some of you really need to examine your life choices.
    Free mirrors today, also a special on black kettles and pots.


    KnightFalzCogohiAbimor

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
    It may be down to how we both approach a guild ourselves, what do you look for? For me I look for a mature guild of lite role-players. So focus is really important, heavy role-players ( a truly rare bird in MMOs these days), hardcore raiding only and so on is not for me.

    People who have a similar focus do tend to drift together. So lets say crafting is not mentioned, well if you are a crafter you will probably get in with those that are, there I don't think a focus is needed. But that's because I am not the crafting sort, for some players they will want to see that mentioned. So to me we tend to look for focus on certain parts of the MMO important to us and drift in to other areas of mutual activity. An example there is that I don't join a guild to raid, but in every guild I have been in I have been prominent in raiding and obviously enjoyed it.

    When I say mentioned I am talking about looking for guild webpages, if you are going to find a guild for you then you do need to do some work.

    I don't approach guilds for the most part as my experience with them has been mostly negative.

    The one I did enjoy being in was Golden Age Heroes, on the Virtue server of CoH. I joined it for theme mostly along with the role-play opportunity that it offered. The members were also decent but that was generally true of the overall population, which contributed to my interest in being in a guild at all. The chance of a negative experience was low.

    In a crafting guild the focus is crafting and often the marketing of that crafted. Those that don't craft will get little benefit from them so won't seek out membership in such a guild. People will of course look for guilds where the focus of them aligns with their own.

    It does take some effort to find and then join a decent guild. For the GAH, my initial contact with them was through a meet and greet advertised in the game forums. Membership required an application including one's character background and a picture of them in costume. This was followed by an in game interview in character if your application piqued their interest. If successful at that stage there was a trial period of a think about a month before full membership was granted.

    A guild that randomly tosses you an unsolicited invitation when you are in the middle of combat probably has a pretty low chance of being decent.
    I had entirely negative outcomes to any guild I tried out in any game since my UO days. 
    It was always about the level divisions, I had a family and just couldn't keep up with the members. People race through Levels in games, and that's an issue when Level Division is present. I think in more modern terms, with Scaling, that might not be an issue anymore, but I know people still race through Levels and that means they don't spend any time "smelling the flowers", which I like to do in various ways. 

    I was in two guilds in UO, both I found just by playing the game (due to like interests), and both were very good experiences. I saw a lot of other guilds that were interesting to me, too, but I was already involved with the other two. 
    Plus, there was no problem with "Levelling out." 

    Level division isn't an issue in CoH despite the lack of scaling as there are systems in place that allowed characters to be temporarily at effectively higher or lower level when those of disparate level want to group together. These must be manually opted in to.

    ESO automatically and seamlessly allows people of disparate level to play together or simply when in proximity to each other, at least with content at base difficulty. Trying to do that in higher difficulty content if the level disparity is great won't work all that well.

    UO is where I had my worst guild experience. I had played for a short while but was still quite new to the game when I was invited to a guild and all seemed well for awhile.

    Not long later one of the members decided to attack me out of nowhere, loot my gear, and then slay me repeatedly. I was told by a bystander that the only way to stop that cycle was to quit the guild as common membership in it was what allowed the attacks and looting to take place. I then did, but by that time the damage had already been done.

    I decided at that point that UO wasn't the place for me and I left for Asheron's Call where I was immune to PvP unless I personally chose to participate which by their system would have been a permanent account wide choice at least at that time, if I recall correctly.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,093
    Angrakhan said:
    This idea that a video game is worth dedicating years of your life to is laughable. Like seriously you guys need to consider how your obituary is going to read. "Dedicated hardcore raider that wasted his life in front of a computer entering himself at the expense of having any real life relationships of significance."
    Now I want to know how to have a "life of significance".

    Also, why the heck would my hobby be mentioned in my obituary ?


  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,851
    edited October 2023
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    All that is needed to form a guild with any particular focus is sufficient players of like mind.
    Well having a like mind means you tend to have a similar focus about what you want from a game. Are we not just using different words here to say the same thing?

    It doesn't seem so as earlier on you felt something was a big ask that I felt was not. While there appears to be some similarities in our views there are also differences.
    It may be down to how we both approach a guild ourselves, what do you look for? For me I look for a mature guild of lite role-players. So focus is really important, heavy role-players ( a truly rare bird in MMOs these days), hardcore raiding only and so on is not for me.

    People who have a similar focus do tend to drift together. So lets say crafting is not mentioned, well if you are a crafter you will probably get in with those that are, there I don't think a focus is needed. But that's because I am not the crafting sort, for some players they will want to see that mentioned. So to me we tend to look for focus on certain parts of the MMO important to us and drift in to other areas of mutual activity. An example there is that I don't join a guild to raid, but in every guild I have been in I have been prominent in raiding and obviously enjoyed it.

    When I say mentioned I am talking about looking for guild webpages, if you are going to find a guild for you then you do need to do some work.

    I don't approach guilds for the most part as my experience with them has been mostly negative.

    The one I did enjoy being in was Golden Age Heroes, on the Virtue server of CoH. I joined it for theme mostly along with the role-play opportunity that it offered. The members were also decent but that was generally true of the overall population, which contributed to my interest in being in a guild at all. The chance of a negative experience was low.

    In a crafting guild the focus is crafting and often the marketing of that crafted. Those that don't craft will get little benefit from them so won't seek out membership in such a guild. People will of course look for guilds where the focus of them aligns with their own.

    It does take some effort to find and then join a decent guild. For the GAH, my initial contact with them was through a meet and greet advertised in the game forums. Membership required an application including one's character background and a picture of them in costume. This was followed by an in game interview in character if your application piqued their interest. If successful at that stage there was a trial period of a think about a month before full membership was granted.

    A guild that randomly tosses you an unsolicited invitation when you are in the middle of combat probably has a pretty low chance of being decent.
    I had entirely negative outcomes to any guild I tried out in any game since my UO days. 
    It was always about the level divisions, I had a family and just couldn't keep up with the members. People race through Levels in games, and that's an issue when Level Division is present. I think in more modern terms, with Scaling, that might not be an issue anymore, but I know people still race through Levels and that means they don't spend any time "smelling the flowers", which I like to do in various ways. 

    I was in two guilds in UO, both I found just by playing the game (due to like interests), and both were very good experiences. I saw a lot of other guilds that were interesting to me, too, but I was already involved with the other two. 
    Plus, there was no problem with "Levelling out." 

    Level division isn't an issue in CoH despite the lack of scaling as there are systems in place that allowed characters to be temporarily at effectively higher or lower level when those of disparate level want to group together. These must be manually opted in to.

    ESO automatically and seamlessly allows people of disparate level to play together or simply when in proximity to each other, at least with content at base difficulty. Trying to do that in higher difficulty content if the level disparity is great won't work all that well.

    UO is where I had my worst guild experience. I had played for a short while but was still quite new to the game when I was invited to a guild and all seemed well for awhile.

    Not long later one of the members decided to attack me out of nowhere, loot my gear, and then slay me repeatedly. I was told by a bystander that the only way to stop that cycle was to quit the guild as common membership in it was what allowed the attacks and looting to take place. I then did, but by that time the damage had already been done.

    I decided at that point that UO wasn't the place for me and I left for Asheron's Call where I was immune to PvP unless I personally chose to participate which by their system would have been a permanent account wide choice at least at that time, if I recall correctly.
    To make myself clear, I don't like any of the answers to the level-divide problem. They all "fix" it by altering your characters or the content, "just for you" as it were. What kind of a game is that? It removes the meaning of advancement. 

    For your problem in UO, with that guild, yes I've heard of several versions of nightmares like that. 
    Did you contact the Guild Leader(s)? 
    Didn't you know that guild members could spar to build skills? 
    Why did you Resurrect (takes your consent) in that guy's presence? 
    If he did it over time, why did you not remove yourself from said guild?
    Why didn't you ask someone at a bank, or on a forum, about the situation?

    Not to be rude, and UO wasn't perfect with such "gamers" about, but it just seems like a little bit of effort on your part could have turned a bad experience into a great one, because UO was absolutely full of great guilds. And they all (usually) were actively looking for members. 

    When I started, I had a tough go of it because of PKers. But I soon found a great guild full of good gamers, and they had a bunch of allied guilds that were the same, and I had more real fun in UO than any other game I've tried. 

    Once upon a time....

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