Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is it just me or do the forums seem a lot less active?

1234579

Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:

    Indeed!

    A Massive Multiplayer Online Game would mean

    It's a Massive Game
    Its a Multiplayer Game
    and its an Online Game


    A Massively Multiplayer Online Game means

    The multiplayer component of the game is Massive
    Its a Multiplayer game
    and its an Online game



    Those extra couple of letters, "ly", change the meaning quite a bit. Which is precisely why the original genre inventors used "massively", because it was the scale of the multiplayer, not the scale of the game world, that set them apart.
    Your semantics are dead on, but for me a massive game world was a given because we didn't have the tiny-MMOs that were to come back then. Can anyone remember when every new MMO in reviews was compared in size to usually WOW? It was Massively in world and players.

    So the actual wording has become more important as the years went on, back then there were no ifs or buts about what a MMORPG meant.

    Whilst I personally expect a massive game world as well as massive player counts, I've always been open to other possibilities, especially outside of RPGs.



    I'm still waiting for a multiplayer FPS game like Battlefield, but with 1000v1000! I want to reach the sort of numbers where the chaos begins to feel more realistic. Like, I'd really like to play a D-Day landings map with 1000s of players participating.

    Or go fantasy, and be able to do something like Helms Deep, but with 1000s of people as orcs and 1000s as rohirrim etc.



    No idea if it'd be successful, or even fun, but I think it would be.
    I have always wanted to ride out across the bridge in a MMORPG recreation of the Battle for Helms Deep.




    You can do something like this in Lotro, maybe someone who has played more recently can remember. It was one of those play a character in the past quests.

    I believe it was the Gondor expansion that introduced "Epic Battles" where you could do this.

    I had quit by that time so not played them personally, but they were advertised as a way to participate in the biggest set pieces from the books without needing all the players. Helms Deep, Siege of Gondar were the ones added.

    They were basically just an extension of the skirmish system - scalable content for 1-12 players - but on larger battlefields with more background NPCs. They were supposed to replace raids, and Turbine stopped making new raids for a few years, but they didn't work well so traditional raids were brought back again.

    They're horrible. These are some of the most amazing set pieces and they were so deadly dull.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • AbimorAbimor Member RarePosts: 915
    lotrlore said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:

    Indeed!

    A Massive Multiplayer Online Game would mean

    It's a Massive Game
    Its a Multiplayer Game
    and its an Online Game


    A Massively Multiplayer Online Game means

    The multiplayer component of the game is Massive
    Its a Multiplayer game
    and its an Online game



    Those extra couple of letters, "ly", change the meaning quite a bit. Which is precisely why the original genre inventors used "massively", because it was the scale of the multiplayer, not the scale of the game world, that set them apart.
    Your semantics are dead on, but for me a massive game world was a given because we didn't have the tiny-MMOs that were to come back then. Can anyone remember when every new MMO in reviews was compared in size to usually WOW? It was Massively in world and players.

    So the actual wording has become more important as the years went on, back then there were no ifs or buts about what a MMORPG meant.

    Whilst I personally expect a massive game world as well as massive player counts, I've always been open to other possibilities, especially outside of RPGs.



    I'm still waiting for a multiplayer FPS game like Battlefield, but with 1000v1000! I want to reach the sort of numbers where the chaos begins to feel more realistic. Like, I'd really like to play a D-Day landings map with 1000s of players participating.

    Or go fantasy, and be able to do something like Helms Deep, but with 1000s of people as orcs and 1000s as rohirrim etc.



    No idea if it'd be successful, or even fun, but I think it would be.
    I have always wanted to ride out across the bridge in a MMORPG recreation of the Battle for Helms Deep.




    You can do something like this in Lotro, maybe someone who has played more recently can remember. It was one of those play a character in the past quests.

    I believe it was the Gondor expansion that introduced "Epic Battles" where you could do this.

    I had quit by that time so not played them personally, but they were advertised as a way to participate in the biggest set pieces from the books without needing all the players. Helms Deep, Siege of Gondar were the ones added.

    They were basically just an extension of the skirmish system - scalable content for 1-12 players - but on larger battlefields with more background NPCs. They were supposed to replace raids, and Turbine stopped making new raids for a few years, but they didn't work well so traditional raids were brought back again.
    I think it was Helm's Deep, actually. The Battle at the Hornburg is the first Epic Batte I remember.

    I could also be gaslighting myself.
    It was helms deep some of them are fun most are terrible. The one I enjoy the most is the battle for peligard the city one. that can be pretty fun even solo but more so with one other person at least. I think I like it the most is its not overly long and the pointsof advancement were really clear.
    the problem with helms deep and some of the other ones is you don't know what the @$^^# is going on and the directions are terrible also their so long if you fail its like goodness I have to do that whole thing again? That advancement system with the skills and buffs was pretty cool though I thought it was well thought out. 
    Kyleran
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    edited November 2023
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,851
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 

    Once upon a time....

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    maskedweaselSlapshot1188HengistAbimorUngoodBrainy

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    You make a good point. While it does suck to be downvoted for *harmless* unpopular opinions (liking certain unpopular games or game design decisions), the tradeoff is more than worth it. Why shouldn't the best, most useful, and most hilarious posts not rise to the top, and the worst, most useless, and most toxic sink to the bottom?
    Nanfoodle
  • ValdemarJValdemarJ Member RarePosts: 1,378
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.


    Abimor
    Bring back the Naked Chicken Chalupa!
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    That's usually your queue to look into who is funding the studies behind your 'facts.'
    Kyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.


    I'd argue more open then a lot of reddits. I do check out the mmorpg reddit from time to time. They tend to blast a lot of topics just off the bat. Especially topics where new games are introduced, it gets removed as promotion or whatever. Here people often post information about random games that interest them and negative or positive stuff still has the option for conversation.

    I don't think I've ever seen a topic related to games completely off limits here even if it does feel promotional. Only time threads get locked is if people start name calling or getting political. 
    KyleranBrainy



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    Exactly. People confuse popular with factual. Like the number of upvotes has some indication of how factual a post is.

    It’s thinking like that which has me very very concerned about the future. Folks who cannot stand others who think differently than their own limited viewpoints.
    AbimorCogohiScotBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ValdemarJValdemarJ Member RarePosts: 1,378
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.


    I'd argue more open then a lot of reddits. I do check out the mmorpg reddit from time to time. They tend to blast a lot of topics just off the bat. Especially topics where new games are introduced, it gets removed as promotion or whatever. Here people often post information about random games that interest them and negative or positive stuff still has the option for conversation.

    I don't think I've ever seen a topic related to games completely off limits here even if it does feel promotional. Only time threads get locked is if people start name calling or getting political. 
    It doesn't matter if some sub-reddits are shit, there are thousands and thousands of them and with just a little tiny bit of effort decent places can be found to get and share information and opinions. I can go to reddit and find information or answers to specific questions about a game (or any topic) and discuss what I'm experiencing. That isn't really going to happen here. Reddit subs are packed with useful information that can be found with a search engine, that isn't easily found elsewhere. That's why reddit is so popular and forums aren't.

    Reddit has a long list of issues and is popular despite those because it provides something that lots of other sites and forums don't do as well.
    Asm0deus
    Bring back the Naked Chicken Chalupa!
  • HengistHengist Member RarePosts: 1,313
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    You make a good point. While it does suck to be downvoted for *harmless* unpopular opinions (liking certain unpopular games or game design decisions), the tradeoff is more than worth it. Why shouldn't the best, most useful, and most hilarious posts not rise to the top, and the worst, most useless, and most toxic sink to the bottom?

    So when you agree with the masses, engage in group think, then it's judged awesome and useful.

    Got it...


    AeanderUngood
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    edited November 2023
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    Exactly. People confuse popular with factual. Like the number of upvotes has some indication of how factual a post is.

    It’s thinking like that which has me very very concerned about the future. Folks who cannot stand others who think differently than their own limited viewpoints.
    Reddit often has 2 or 3 conversations on a topic. Popular view in one group and the other below it having their own conversation. They end up clumping. Again in each group what that group agrees with as helpful gets to the top. All under the OP of the thread. 
    maskedweasel
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    edited November 2023
    ValdemarJ said:
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.


    I'd argue more open then a lot of reddits. I do check out the mmorpg reddit from time to time. They tend to blast a lot of topics just off the bat. Especially topics where new games are introduced, it gets removed as promotion or whatever. Here people often post information about random games that interest them and negative or positive stuff still has the option for conversation.

    I don't think I've ever seen a topic related to games completely off limits here even if it does feel promotional. Only time threads get locked is if people start name calling or getting political. 
    It doesn't matter if some sub-reddits are shit, there are thousands and thousands of them and with just a little tiny bit of effort decent places can be found to get and share information and opinions. I can go to reddit and find information or answers to specific questions about a game (or any topic) and discuss what I'm experiencing. That isn't really going to happen here. Reddit subs are packed with useful information that can be found with a search engine, that isn't easily found elsewhere. That's why reddit is so popular and forums aren't.

    Reddit has a long list of issues and is popular despite those because it provides something that lots of other sites and forums don't do as well.
    That's an over generalization but yeah people don't come here for problems with games where specific subs might have information on some issues when you search for something on a search engine.

    But Reddit is terrible for conversations. Their thread system is terrible for any long form discussion. Always has been. 

    Finding information related to some specific issue, sure, Reddit works better, mostly because sites like this don't really focus on that. Could they? Sure. But that's not why people come here, so it doesn't make sense to use it that way. 
    Post edited by maskedweasel on
    AbimorCogohiScot



  • AbimorAbimor Member RarePosts: 915
    ValdemarJ said:
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.


    I'd argue more open then a lot of reddits. I do check out the mmorpg reddit from time to time. They tend to blast a lot of topics just off the bat. Especially topics where new games are introduced, it gets removed as promotion or whatever. Here people often post information about random games that interest them and negative or positive stuff still has the option for conversation.

    I don't think I've ever seen a topic related to games completely off limits here even if it does feel promotional. Only time threads get locked is if people start name calling or getting political. 
    It doesn't matter if some sub-reddits are shit, there are thousands and thousands of them and with just a little tiny bit of effort decent places can be found to get and share information and opinions. I can go to reddit and find information or answers to specific questions about a game (or any topic) and discuss what I'm experiencing. That isn't really going to happen here. Reddit subs are packed with useful information that can be found with a search engine, that isn't easily found elsewhere. That's why reddit is so popular and forums aren't.

    Reddit has a long list of issues and is popular despite those because it provides something that lots of other sites and forums don't do as well.
    That's an every generalization but yeah people don't come here for problems with games where specific subs might have information on some issues when you search for something on a search engine.

    But Reddit is terrible for conversations. Their threat system is terrible for any long form discussion. Always has been. 

    Finding information related to some specific issue, sure, Reddit works better, mostly because sites like this don't really focus on that. Could they? Sure. But that's not why people come here, so it doesn't make sense too use it that way. 
    Ok so it is not just me who thinks reddit's system is flawed. I agree for simple things it is great to get an answer but once it is a long running thread of posts and reply for me its hard to follow. Especially on my phone where if you touch it wrong when scrolling it responses collapse and things like that. 
    maskedweasel
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    edited November 2023
    Reddit downvotes anything the mob there does not like. Very hard to actually discuss there unless it is to support the current mob. The downvoting is used like a weapon. Then your point of view gets hidden and no one can see it unless they make the added effort of opening the <--> to see it. Bloody bad system if you ask me, it just encourages bully tactics.
    Slapshot1188UngoodScotBrainycheyane

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited November 2023
    Aeander said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    That's usually your queue to look into who is funding the studies behind your 'facts.'
    AP and Snopes call me for fact checking....

    ;)


    UngoodAeanderCogohi

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    Your opinion of reddit and mine vary so much I'm suspecting that one of us is from a different multiverse. ;)

    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!




    Exactly. People confuse popular with factual. Like the number of upvotes has some indication of how factual a post is.

    It’s thinking like that which has me very very concerned about the future. Folks who cannot stand others who think differently than their own limited viewpoints.
    Reddit often has 2 or 3 conversations on a topic. Popular view in one group and the other below it having their own conversation. They end up clumping. Again in each group what that group agrees with as helpful gets to the top. All under the OP of the thread. 
    Or they “brigade “ and downvote and hide views they dislike…

    maskedweaselKyleranBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586

    kitarad said:
    Reddit downvotes anything the mob there does not like. Very hard to actually discuss there unless it is to support the current mob. The downvoting is used like a weapon. Then your point of view gets hidden and no one can see it unless they make the added effort of opening the <--> to see it. Bloody bad system if you ask me, it just encourages bully tactics.
    Exactly. But that’s what some like because they think “facts” depend on popularity.

    KylerankitaradBrainy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Any forums have an issue with social media, but I find SM does not represent the views of posters as well as a forum does. Reddit might as well be moderated by The Ministry Of Truth and any social media that allows you to 'up and or down vote' posts is the bane of honest discussion. You would have to believe group-think is the epitome of thought if you favour that system in my eyes.

    I reckon if you think Reddit is too censorious for your liking, then you are definitely the target audience for a forum that has failed to rein in scams, sketchy links, and hate speech.

    Because ultimately, until that is all addressed, that's what is actually killing these forums and driving away old users - not just the stagnation of the genre.

    And the reactions to some of the comments here have definitely given me pause. Perhaps the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Reddit is well known for that up/down vote thing. Lots of people won't bother with it, because it's very much what Scot says. Or was, I'm not up to date on that issue, which I first read about quite a few years ago. 
    I fail to see how that's any different from the reaction system we already have. Not only do we use them in the same way, but it shows who is reacting to which content and how they are reacting. Arguably less conducive to "free discussion."
    Go look for an answer to a question or facts on our forums. It's allot of work. You will quickly see how awesome reddit is verses a standard forum. I have seen many a post here that was misinformation or a question and page 2 or 3 someone points out the fact of the matter with links and everything you really need to know on the topic you get 10+ clicks of insightful and awesome as well but the thread keeps going and the info get buried and the miss information becomes the topic again. With reddit the insightful post would always stay at the top because it's gotten so many positive reactions like we would do an insightful here, so people know always what matters. 

    This also changes the community. Everyone wants to be that up voted post. So you have people giving facts over just dumb posts that do not add anything to the conversation. Posts like that get down voted as well. So the thread pushes the useless comments to the bottem and the helpful facts get highlighted by being at the front.

    Doing this also changes the conversation. People looking at the thread after you get some good up votes, now chime in on the good posts not that toxic crap.

    Personally I spend most of my time now talking about games on reddit and discord. 
    You make a good point. While it does suck to be downvoted for *harmless* unpopular opinions (liking certain unpopular games or game design decisions), the tradeoff is more than worth it. Why shouldn't the best, most useful, and most hilarious posts not rise to the top, and the worst, most useless, and most toxic sink to the bottom?
    Because facts are not a popularity contest maybe? 

    I've read some really great informative posts on reddit that were downvoted into oblivion simply because it was not what people wanted to hear.
    maskedweaselKylerankitaradCogohiBrainy
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Hengist said:
    So when you agree with the masses, engage in group think, then it's judged awesome and useful.

    Got it...


    I agree.
    UngoodKyleran
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.



    People can't handle open dialogue and free thinking, hence the need for topic constraint and moderation.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    ValdemarJ said:
    Kyleran said:
    Reddit is home of group think, where only popular opinions and that of the sub's moderators matter.

    I've seen unpopular facts downvoted into oblivion because it doesn't suit the group thinks position.

    I post there regularly across all sorts of topics, some require the precision of navigating through a mine field while blindfolded, one wrong step and it's boom!
    Yeah, not like this site, a bastion of open dialog, free thinking, and productive discussion.



    People can't handle open dialogue and free thinking, hence the need for topic constraint and moderation.
    People have been tought that words are violence and a different opinion is an attack.

    There is a GREAT book on this called the Coddling of the American Mind.  It's written by the head of the F.I.R.E. group about free speech.  He is a former member of the ACLU but speaks with total clarity and consistency on Free Speech issues.  Which annoys those on the Right and Left who tend to only want to hear those who agree with their own perspectives.  The book does a great job about laying out why that is a bad idea and how it is damaging society.


    KyleranunfilteredJW

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

Sign In or Register to comment.