Isn't FFXIV the WoW Killer?

Wargfoot

People always mention the WoW killer.

Given that FFXIV is a themepark like WOW and now stands at 30+ million subscribers it seems to me that FFXIV is the WoW killer and the deed is done.

Now some chucklehead in the gallery will point out that WoW isn't dead, which is accurate, but there never was going to be a game that upon release, suddenly 99% of the WoW population would immediately unsubscribe and the game would shut down.  Even really old, undeveloped titles like Ultima Online aren't technically dead but I think we could use the term 'dead' as in 'the baton has passed' - in that sense it would be credible to claim that Ultima Online is dead and WoW is on the ropes.

Thoughts?

Wargfoot

Sometimes I sit back and smile as I reread my posts.
That there is some damn fine trolling.

Tiller

Those that didn't move over to FFXIV permanently seem to be bouncing back and forth between the two these days. I only sub when there is a new expansion on the way to catch up with the story and prepare for the next, otherwise I play other games.

cameltosis

Do you have a link for the number of FFXIV subscribers?

I have serious doubts that FFXIV has 30mil current subscribers, but 30mil total over the 9 years of it's lifetime sounds reasonable. That would still put it quite a way behind WoW's lifetime subscribers, although ofc it's still damn impressive!

Wargfoot

cameltosis said:

Do you have a link for the number of FFXIV subscribers?

I have serious doubts that FFXIV has 30mil current subscribers, but 30mil total over the 9 years of it's lifetime sounds reasonable. That would still put it quite a way behind WoW's lifetime subscribers, although ofc it's still damn impressive!

This is the best I've got.
I've no idea as to how reliable it is.

How many subscribers and active players does Final Fantasy XIV have?  - Pro Game Guides

mekhere

FFXIV is a Themepark like WOW.
Where is the massive multiplayer in both of these titles? Dwarfed versions of an 8man and battlegroup multiplayer mode make both of these games invalid as mmorpg's is concerned. There dumbed down versions of real DnD. It's easy mode franchising at best.

FrodoFragins

Wargfoot said:

Given that FFXIV is a themepark like WOW and now stands at 30+ million subscribers it seems to me that FFXIV is the WoW killer and the deed is done.

Thoughts?

That number isn't accurate.

FF14 had a nice period of growth thanks to WOW pooping the bed.  But people got bored and left within 4-6 months.

Dibdabs

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Kyleran

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

cameltosis

Wargfoot said:

cameltosis said:

Do you have a link for the number of FFXIV subscribers?

I have serious doubts that FFXIV has 30mil current subscribers, but 30mil total over the 9 years of it's lifetime sounds reasonable. That would still put it quite a way behind WoW's lifetime subscribers, although ofc it's still damn impressive!

This is the best I've got.
I've no idea as to how reliable it is.

How many subscribers and active players does Final Fantasy XIV have?  - Pro Game Guides

Thanks for the link!

The article reckons it has 2.2mil active players and gave some workings for that number, so that makes sense.

It also reckoned it had 39 million subscribers, but gave no workings for that number. So, im inclined to think they either pulled that number out of thin air, or they're thinking that 39 mil is lifetime subscribers, rather than active subscribers.

Those are still impressive numbers, but a long way off WoW's peak subscribers and lifetime subscribers.

I'd be curious to see whether 2.2mil active FFXIV players is more or less than WoW's current active players.

Wargfoot

Kyleran said:

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

So much hate....

Tiller

Kyleran said:

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

daaaang lol

Wargfoot

Tiller said:

Kyleran said:

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

daaaang lol

Never fear.
I reported Kyleran's post and expect a ban at any moment.

Wargfoot

FrodoFragins said:

Wargfoot said:

Given that FFXIV is a themepark like WOW and now stands at 30+ million subscribers it seems to me that FFXIV is the WoW killer and the deed is done.

Thoughts?

That number isn't accurate.

FF14 had a nice period of growth thanks to WOW pooping the bed.  But people got bored and left within 4-6 months.

Do you have a better source for numbers or are you just guessing?

Xiaoki

Wargfoot said:

cameltosis said:

Do you have a link for the number of FFXIV subscribers?

I have serious doubts that FFXIV has 30mil current subscribers, but 30mil total over the 9 years of it's lifetime sounds reasonable. That would still put it quite a way behind WoW's lifetime subscribers, although ofc it's still damn impressive!

This is the best I've got.
I've no idea as to how reliable it is.

How many subscribers and active players does Final Fantasy XIV have?  - Pro Game Guides

Oh God, another spam bot with shady links.

Angrakhan

My question is, even if FFXIV killed WoW does it really matter? Fundamentally it's just WoW with an anime skin on it in many respects. I personally can't stand playing it due to the 2.5 second global cool down which makes it play like molasses. That aside it's still just a theme park raid grinder, so... Yay? It did that better than WoW. ./golf clap

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

cameltosis

I've been hunting around a bit for numbers for WoW.

The best estimate seems to be that WoW has approx 4.5mil active subscribers worldwide, making it about twice as popular as FFXIV.

The last confirmed numbers for WoW was 5.5mil subsribers back in 2015. If they've only dropped 20% of their playerbase over the last 8 years, then thats very impressive! Granted, they've had the pandemic plus WoW Classic to boost numbers, but still.

FrodoFragins

Wargfoot said:

FrodoFragins said:

Wargfoot said:

Given that FFXIV is a themepark like WOW and now stands at 30+ million subscribers it seems to me that FFXIV is the WoW killer and the deed is done.

Thoughts?

That number isn't accurate.

FF14 had a nice period of growth thanks to WOW pooping the bed.  But people got bored and left within 4-6 months.

Do you have a better source for numbers or are you just guessing?

Common sense, google trends, twitch viewership, youtube content consumption ...

WOW at it's peak was like 12 million active subscribers.  FF14 is nowhere near that number let alone 25 million.  Be real.

Tiller

FrodoFragins said:

Wargfoot said:

FrodoFragins said:

Wargfoot said:

Given that FFXIV is a themepark like WOW and now stands at 30+ million subscribers it seems to me that FFXIV is the WoW killer and the deed is done.

Thoughts?

That number isn't accurate.

FF14 had a nice period of growth thanks to WOW pooping the bed.  But people got bored and left within 4-6 months.

Do you have a better source for numbers or are you just guessing?

Common sense, google trends, twitch viewership, youtube content consumption ...

WOW at it's peak was like 12 million active subscribers.  FF14 is nowhere near that number let alone 25 million.  Be real.

That's still pulling numbers out of your behind though and calling it proof. We really don't have a realistic number, and both Blizzard and SQE hold those true numbers close to the chest. 

I do know when it comes to FFXIV they admit the fact that people show up for updates only and then leave in between, which is what I do. No idea how many folks have a yearly sub, I do know it's a good deal to subscribe for a year over quarterly sub to FFXIV.

The two games also play different. I would say running dungeons and raids for gear currency is probably less of a grind than WoW. You can get fully geared in top tier gear in a few weeks to continue to play the story. Anything more than that is up to you. Beyond gear runs, running dungeons and raids in different difficulty levels for unlocks, different jobs grinding ect is the only thing to do at end game besides playing dress up, chatting ect.

I would say what FFXIV has going for it is the story, music and community (which is for the most part decent)

FrodoFragins

We KNOW what WOW's peak was because they told us.  We know that FF14 does not have a market presence close to WOW at it's peak.  Thus we know 25 million active subscribers for FF14 is an absurd claim.

Neoyoshi

FrodoFragins said:

We KNOW what WOW's peak was because they told us.  We know that FF14 does not have a market presence close to WOW at it's peak.  Thus we know 25 million active subscribers for FF14 is an absurd claim.

So we can take Blizzard's word for it but not Square|Enix's and Yoshi-P's word?

Blizzard outright sent a congratulations to Yoshi-P about this, hell, Yoshi-P did the same in the past for various World of Warcraft accolades.

EDIT:  I would just like to point out that something unexpected happened in 2020 during Covid; something a lot of people didn't see coming, but was the product of what was happening at Blizzard at the time - (YOU ALL should remember this)

WoW players left enmass and somehow FFXIV was their alternative game to try out, it was the only other long-running subscription-based game and it had a free unlimited trial (you guys should know the memes by now about this free trial)

When people are trying to find that 25million subscribers number, you have to look in the past for it, it was in 2020 and 2021, that's where you'll find those numbers, it occured during all that craziness with Blizzard, the lawsuits, FFXIV being the only alternative for many, and having some many people flocking to FFXIV just created more buzz.

The servers literally couldn't handle the influx of new players; the server hardware in all regions have to be upgraded over a series of phases to remedy the influx because it was causing so many server issues.

Popular WoW streamers came over to FFXIV and begin streaming FFXIV, that created it's own influx of players as well.

So that is where the 25million comes from; it's obviously not the current number today, nowhere near that, but it did happen in a period of time when people where all shut in their home, around the planet, mostly.

I won't say FFXIV is a WoW killer, but i won't say WoW is a better game, i won't say that for either.  Both have strong things to offer very different types of players.

I do miss the fan videos people were making though.

FrodoFragins

What exactly did Yoshi P say?  Did he say they peaked at 25 million ACTIVE subs.  Or that they've had 25 million subs total over their lifetime.  Or did he say they had 25 million active players?

Anyway, needing more servers doesn't mean they reached the astronomical numbers you are so confident in.

EDIT:  OK so he was talking total players ever not subscribers.  The game has a generous free trial and those players are counted as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/y0egqv/final_fantasy_xiv_now_has_more_than_27m/

FF14 definitely grabbed WOW players but there's no evidence it actually passed WOW in total subs.  And with WOW Classic growth and FF14 decline the gap is larger.

mekhere

Wargfoot said:

Tiller said:

Kyleran said:

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

daaaang lol

Never fear.
I reported Kyleran's post and expect a ban at any moment.

I don't want to but in, but why did you report Kyleran if Dibdabs was the one that suggested you like being led by the nose? No where in Kyles post was there any suggestion of an insult towards you.

Tiller

mekhere said:

Wargfoot said:

Tiller said:

Kyleran said:

Dibdabs said:

Themepark MMOs are for people who can't think outside the box and who like being led by the nose.  

Sandboxes are for people who can't color within the lines and are unable to follow simple instructions.

daaaang lol

Never fear.
I reported Kyleran's post and expect a ban at any moment.

I don't want to but in, but why did you report Kyleran if Dibdabs was the one that suggested you like being led by the nose? No where in Kyles post was there any suggestion of an insult towards you.

Pretty sure he was being facetious.

Neoyoshi

The current landscape of this topic alone is probably why we'll never get a FFXIV x World of Warcraft collab.

FrodoFragins said:

What exactly did Yoshi P say?  Did he say they peaked at 25 million ACTIVE subs.  Or that they've had 25 million subs total over their lifetime.  Or did he say they had 25 million active players?

https://www.siliconera.com/final-fantasy-xiv-surpasses-25-million-users/

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202112/02243178.html



https://www.polygon.com/2014/1/28/5354856/world-of-warcraft-100m-accounts-lifetime


You know what i've learned from all this? that we are WAAAAY too hung up on numbers, and this dumb sandbox fight of whose sandcastle is bigger and better, it's fucking stupid, and just shuts down any creative partnerships in the medium.

Also here's that card i talked about; though i think the context of Blizzard's 'congrats card' has been misused for other people's false narratives, which is why the Tweet for this image probably had to be removed; it has been removed.

I'm fairly certain it was a card from blizzard telling yoshi-p and the team *congrats on the launch of Shadowbringers expansion (i think)

*someone please correct me if i'm wrong.






As for the topic at hand; has anyone stopped to even ask: "Does there even NEED to be a WoW killer?"

Can't we just be happy that we have these two wildly successful long-running mmorpg's that are still subscription-based?