New Ashes of Creation Video Showcases Caravan PvP Gameplay | MMORPG.com

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New Ashes of Creation Video Showcases Caravan PvP Gameplay | MMORPG.com

PvP Caravans are the highlight of the most recent Ashes of Creation gameplay video, as Intrepid Studios gave an expansive look at the feature in its latest video.

Read the full story here

Slapshot1188

Fundamental Question here...

People in the Caravan obviously have a risk. What is the risk on the side of the attacker? It might be in the video, if so can someone summarize?

The only risk seems to be eventually losing the loot they stole from the original caravan? Like, if the Caravan folks had won the first fight would they have gotten to take stuff from the attackers?


If it's all one sided... I can kind of see where this story ends... but maybe I am missing something?

Drukqs

Ugh. So every MMO is going to have a Archeage style walking simulator PvP system? Ravendawn also has a tradepack system and all of these walking simulator systems aren't fun.

Travelling for 30+ minutes isn't fun. Doesn't matter if the reward is giga XYZ. The gameplay of travelling isn't fun.

Ponzini

Slapshot1188 said:

Fundamental Question here...



People in the Caravan obviously have a risk. What is the risk on the side of the attacker? It might be in the video, if so can someone summarize?



The only risk seems to be eventually losing the loot they stole from the original caravan? Like, if the Caravan folks had won the first fight would they have gotten to take stuff from the attackers?





If it's all one sided... I can kind of see where this story ends... but maybe I am missing something?

As of right now the only known risks on the attacker side is some sort of penalty to your bandit progression path, gear degradation on death, and just ruining your reputation. He has said they will be testing it during the alpha. so they could easily make it so attackers take much more gear degradation than a normal death which is a big deal in Ashes because weapons eventually break.

ChildoftheShadows

Drukqs said:

Ugh. So every MMO is going to have a Archeage style walking simulator PvP system? Ravendawn also has a tradepack system and all of these walking simulator systems aren't fun.

Travelling for 30+ minutes isn't fun. Doesn't matter if the reward is giga XYZ. The gameplay of travelling isn't fun.

Good

Ponzini

Drukqs said:

Ugh. So every MMO is going to have a Archeage style walking simulator PvP system? Ravendawn also has a tradepack system and all of these walking simulator systems aren't fun.



Travelling for 30+ minutes isn't fun. Doesn't matter if the reward is giga XYZ. The gameplay of travelling isn't fun.

Absolutely nothing will require you to engage with the caravan system. You can sell all of your resources to the town you are in. If you want to make more then you can risk taking a caravan. Its likely there will be players who exclusively run caravans.

"The gameplay of travelling isn't fun"

Shit no one told all the players who enjoy truck simulator, death stranding, elite dangerous, star citizen, etc. Being a trucker who buys low and sells high can be fun for a lot of people.

Hengist

Ponzini said:

Drukqs said:

Ugh. So every MMO is going to have a Archeage style walking simulator PvP system? Ravendawn also has a tradepack system and all of these walking simulator systems aren't fun.





Travelling for 30+ minutes isn't fun. Doesn't matter if the reward is giga XYZ. The gameplay of travelling isn't fun.

Absolutely nothing will require you to engage with the caravan system. You can sell all of your resources to the town you are in. If you want to make more then you can risk taking a caravan. Its likely there will be players who exclusively run caravans.



"The gameplay of travelling isn't fun"



Shit no one told all the players who enjoy truck simulator, death stranding, elite dangerous, star citizen, etc.

Being a trucker who buys low and sells high can be fun for a lot of people.

But if it's not fun for him, then obviously since he represents all players, it won't be fun for anyone...

Yeah, I'm mostly kidding, but that attitude is pretty invasive. People think that every game that is out there should cater to their likes and dislikes.

I don't know if it'll work or won't work, but it will be interesting to see how they the implement it. I think it could be enjoyable if done right, and I'm not smart enough to know what "right" is, but there definitely is something there.

Ashes has quite a few things going for it that interest me, a few that I'm on the fence about, and maybe one or two that I saw that I didn't care for, but casually keeping up with it. I know they've had a few "false starts" or ideas that didn't quite work, but the core...I hope they can make it work.

Kyleran

Like so many PVP games the caravan haulers bear an inordinate amount of risk while the attackers have almost none.

Why wouldnt everyone just be attackers.

In EVE attackers have to be lucky and catch the haulers unaware otherwise they'll miss far more often than they succeed.

Haulers can often run faster than that attackers, cloak, have better Intel etc.

I honestly can't imagine anyone wanting to risk being a hauler, seems like a suckers bet.

Heck, even when the attackers summon a caravan it appears magically out of thin air, rather than having to risk being attacked and destroyed while traveling on the way.

Always said "PVPers" were the real care bears of the gaming world since they rarely have to put anything of much value on the line.

At least in EVE they have to risk at times some very expensive ships which is at least something and I'm sure far more in cost than "gear segregation" used here.

Ever since first running into them in WOW I think the most hateful form of questing for me was running escort for those damn slowly wandering NPCs, especially on a PVP server where you were a sitting duck.

This is almost exactly like it....ugh.

I love the look of the world, the cool conversion from caravan to raft and back again and the combat.

Didn't seem to be very many npcs in their path but more than some of the earlier videos I saw last year, so at least progress.

Also, they were able to defeat their opponents quite easily, not sure if this was a result of superior skill or if they were just over leveled or over geared more than the opposition.

Tokken

Good to see progress! especially on the PvP side. I like the caravan concept so far.....

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Also, they were able to defeat their opponents quite easily, not sure if this was a result of superior skill or if they were just over leveled or over geared more than the opposition.

Pretty sure that like everything else with Stevie it was just scripted.  

Brainy

So the cycle is:

Attackers lose nothing of value
Haulers take all the risk
So to encourage hauling (ie more victims) the devs increase hauling rewards (aka decreasing all other reward activities in the game)
Then victims run the gauntlet hoping to get lucky, until victims get fedup as targets and quit.  
Then without victims, attackers quit.
Then game goes into maintenance mode (aka dies).

Geez where have I seen this before.

This is what most MMO pvp looks like.  You can pretty much substitute this formula into farming, nodes, keeps etc...  Gotta have sheep/wolves, cant have competitive PVP in an MMO.

ChildoftheShadows

Kyleran said:

Also, they were able to defeat their opponents quite easily, not sure if this was a result of superior skill or if they were just over leveled or over geared more than the opposition.

I absolutely would script a scene like this. Nothing like getting wiped trying to showcase a feature lol

Mensur

Caravan PvP is always good.

Scot

Ponzini said:

Drukqs said:

Ugh. So every MMO is going to have a Archeage style walking simulator PvP system? Ravendawn also has a tradepack system and all of these walking simulator systems aren't fun.





Travelling for 30+ minutes isn't fun. Doesn't matter if the reward is giga XYZ. The gameplay of travelling isn't fun.

Absolutely nothing will require you to engage with the caravan system. You can sell all of your resources to the town you are in. If you want to make more then you can risk taking a caravan. Its likely there will be players who exclusively run caravans.



"The gameplay of travelling isn't fun"



Shit no one told all the players who enjoy truck simulator, death stranding, elite dangerous, star citizen, etc.

Being a trucker who buys low and sells high can be fun for a lot of people.

Nothing must stand in the way of my fun. Not even for 5 secs, I won't wait damn them!

We seem to have forgotten that some of our best MMORPG experiences were during the waiting. You talk to guildies, party members and so on. If any waiting immediately makes you switch on the TV, then yes its a bore, if you make your waiting about the game it really adds to the game.

Slapshot1188

Mensur said:

Caravan PvP is always good.

At least if you are the attacker

ValdemarJ

You must be

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this tall to go on this ride.

Wheeee! See mom! It's no hands pvp. How fun. Can we go on the next ride? This one was so authentic and exciting.

Ponzini

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

Also, they were able to defeat their opponents quite easily, not sure if this was a result of superior skill or if they were just over leveled or over geared more than the opposition.

Pretty sure that like everything else with Stevie it was just scripted.  

No way! The DEVELOPMENT SHOWCASE was scripted!?!?! I thought the game was out and this was a random encounter! Are you guys serious?

Not sure why you guys are focused on attacker penalties. This was meant to show the system. Like I said, they are testing this in alpha and I think they have made it quite clear they dont want the game to be a pvp free for all. There will be penalties. Not to mention it will probably be much more inconvenient to sell off stolen goods than shown here in the video. A town has to decide to go down the upgrade path to add a black market dealer to its marketplace. I doubt there will be many of those as it will incentivize thieves.

There are just too many factors to even worry about balance right now.

Slapshot1188

Ponzini said:

Not sure why you guys are focused on attacker penalties. 

No reason at all other than countless instances where this proved to be the fatal flaw in a PvP game.  

Ponzini

Slapshot1188 said:

Ponzini said:

Not sure why you guys are focused on attacker penalties. 

No reason at all other than countless instances where this proved to be the fatal flaw in a PvP game.  

Its too early in the development for it. Balancing will take place during the beta. All you need to know is they dont intend for it to be a gank fest.

Brainy

What devs ever said they want their game to be a gank fest?  Doesnt matter what they say, its how they make the mechanics that matter.  Which is the point of discussion.

Before they design the mechanics is the best time to figure out ways to solve the issue not after in beta when its already designed and implemented.

How about they dont make bad decision right from the beginning?

Kyleran

Yes, one designs things like security, player behavioral controls, risk vs reward all from the very start, they are not elements one just pads in at the end to fix the gaps as it were, especially in a PVP centric game.

In addition to this being a potential gankfest it almost surely will be a hackers paradise which will sink it in the end.

kitarad

Problem with increasing the risk for a PvPer is that they will not want to engage because they prefer safe PvP. Safe for them that is. So they will be a lot of complaints that it's a hobbling mechanic and so on and so forth. I don't see it happening.

Slapshot1188

Ponzini said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Ponzini said:

Not sure why you guys are focused on attacker penalties. 

No reason at all other than countless instances where this proved to be the fatal flaw in a PvP game.  

It’s too early in the development for it. Balancing will take place during the beta. All you need to know is they dont intend for it to be a gank fest.

Said every developer ever…

Abimor

The Sad part about this is everything else sounds amazing about this game. I mean unless you can use caravans for bait and really inflict some harm on the attackers by getting items or something that helps on youe end route value. this looked totally one sided. Why do pvp games have all the cool sounding things that basically get ruined by the pvpers being ass hats and not having real consequences?

I agree they have to figure out a balanced system now and how to make failed attacks mean something.

Kyleran

To make things "fair" this should be like Somali pirates attacking a ship protected by a modern destroyer.

The pirates should rarely win unless exceedingly clever.

Abimor

Kyleran said:

To make things "fair" this should be like Somali pirates attacking a ship protected by a modern destroyer.

The pirates should rarely win unless exceedingly clever.

Totally agree.
The only thing that could really be fair are buffs once they survive the first attack buff  what their selling value  or if they survive an attack give the defenders buffs for defense and the original attackers debuffs for a reasonable time. You have to buff the defender to stop raiders from stringing along attacks in a coordinated effort.  

The big problems with those ideas i mentioned is what is stopping the caravan for faking an attack on itself? The debuff on the original attackers would work maybe but a major problem with any solution is the anti exploit has to be as good as the solution.