Full loot can be too punishing and it becomes a matter of balancing economy, but also encouraging exciting gameplay. Look at UO vs POTBS vs EVE vs Albion. There is also a limited percent of the population that is willing to risk it all, unless they can quickly get it all back and get back in the fight. Nothing is more exciting than risking a massive investment, however nothing makes you never want to play again if you have to grind sooo much to get back to the show.
If only we could have a DAOC 2 be more than vaporware... 3 realms with built in instability and unique classes ? with dungeon access and realm passive on the line.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
Full loot can be too punishing and it becomes a matter of balancing economy, but also encouraging exciting gameplay. Look at UO vs POTBS vs EVE vs Albion. There is also a limited percent of the population that is willing to risk it all, unless they can quickly get it all back and get back in the fight. Nothing is more exciting than risking a massive investment, however nothing makes you never want to play again if you have to grind sooo much to get back to the show.
If only we could have a DAOC 2 be more than vaporware... 3 realms with built in instability and unique classes ? with dungeon access and realm passive on the line.
The dropping loot thing. Keep in mind my only contention to that idea is the mechanics involved in being able to make that happen and not cause a cluster fuck of a lag problem.
You'll just ignore everything I type you carebear propaganda spewing hate-monger.
Oh wait.... you're not the other guy.
Alright, I laughed, I mean, not say I can't be that bad, but I am not being that bad here, LOL
I think for me whether it is the key for my house, or the dropping loot thing, that the specifics aren't terribly important. In fact, those could be stand-ins or examples of what I enjoy in a game.
UO kind of started more along the lines of a simulation so it was natural that the developers would have stuff fall to the ground or that a house would have a key. They started out with limited spawns, again, because the design ethos was simulation as opposed to game like FFXIV where the goal is Fashion Barbie Online.
I think the simulation mindset causes cool things to happen and it seems to me that other games don't simulate reality as much as simulate games.
So of course you drop everything when you die, and of course someone can break into your house, and some of that brought grief for sure, but now games don't even attempt to be anything real.
Instanced housing Not dropping gear Swords the size of surf boards Quest markers
Instead of simulations we get icons on a screen, sort of place holders for great systems instead of great systems. Most games are caricatures of other games - they look like games, such as FFXIV, but are really nothing more complicated than Bejeweled.
When is the last time a big MMORPG required you to look at the landscape to get a clue as how to defeat the boss? It's all meaningless set pieces anymore.
I get this, and that is more along the lines of the kind of game design I support, in the sense of knowing your market, knowing your demographic, and what kind of gamer/player you plan to attract to your game
In the sense a game like GW2 / FFXIV / ESO, etc, they are making games, not these just open explorable worlds, but, Games, for players to play in, and this is something a lot of players want, they want that direction, they want those quest givers, they want those reward paths, and all that, the millions of players that are attracted to those games want their Barbie dress up with ass physics!
Now that does not mean that making Virtual Worlds like, IIRC, a game like RUST, or Ark, and others, are bad, but the developers that make those games need to also understand their target demographic, and who they expect to show up and play these games.
I for one do not consider this outcome from the above as "Bad.", I would have called it "Better."
The bad: Without the "sheep to shear" the hard core PvP'ers were disenfranchised. They didn't like preying on each other (hard targets versus soft targets), and they became a smaller minority in the overall game. The real bad though was that the intensity and "realness" of the game for all players was diminished. This was the major unintended consequence.*
This right here is why a modern game based on UO or FLOW-PVP, will not have anywhere near the same kind of environment and dynamic that UO had
When UO launched in the 90's, it was it's own very unique thing, so if you wanted that kind of online MMO expense, it was a very small sampling to chose from, and thus a lot of sheep went into the wolves den
This is also why the PvE servers in EQ exploded with popularity while the PvP one's died off due to inactivity.
With the situation as it is now, with a huge volume of other choices, PvE MMO's galore all over the place, and I might add a lot of top tier choices at that
The only people that are going to go into FLOW-PVP games these days are those that want to PVP, they are there to kill other players, nothing else, they want to loot the body of their slain and do ugly things to their corpse, take video's of it and laugh about it online to their friends that also want to get in line to do the same
As such, if given another option, none the "Sheep" that these players want to prey upon will enter those games, or, they might test it out, get brutally ganked, humiliated, insulted, and after taking that abuse, realize that was stupid, and go back to their Barbie™ Dress Up MMO, flipping that game and the people that like it, the bird on their way out
Leaving all the PvP players wondering why no one wants to play with them.
It's a mystery eh?
Any Dev that does not realize this, is in fact a moron.
Any Dev that thinks they can put shit in to attract PvE players to their Abusive PvP Hell Hole, is a Total Fucking Moron
And this all goes back to my belief of having a target audience, a direct demographic of players that you want to attract to your game, and building a game just for them, focus, target, at the exclusion of all else.
This is also why PvP games are attractive and very successful and PvP MMO's are not, a lot of players want PvP, but when they make a BR's, FPS, MOBA's, all the people going in are there to do one thing, PvP, and there is no illusions about what is about it happen once the round starts. Those games target the hell out of their players single minded desire to Kill other players, and they are very, very, successful at it
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
So, what I’m getting from this that you sucked at UO and played any of the more difficult content ie: Ancient Worms, Belrons, Ancient Lich. Probably never went to green acers or even the star room for that matter. Never experienced the fun of Order vs. Chaos wars. Your fearful play style caused you miss out on a large portion of content.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
So, what I’m getting from this that you sucked at UO and played any of the more difficult content ie: Ancient Worms, Belrons, Ancient Lich. Probably never went to green acers or even the star room for that matter. Never experienced the fun of Order vs. Chaos wars. Your fearful play style caused you miss out on a large portion of content.
I tamed dragons after Trammel came out and killed shadow dragons/balrons and so forth. You have to understand, back in the day I'd get whacked 3 times a week and I was on dial up so PvP wasn't really an option.
I also didn't have a good understanding of PvP games in general and I didn't have a nice attitude about it. Now in FO I go anywhere I please because I've a different attitude now. I also have the means to provide all my own gear.
I still won't play a FLOW game because it attracts people who are bad people in real life. I really disklike trash talking opportunists who are constantly asking "u mad bro?". People who get off on making others mad - I don't want to be around those people.
I have reds in FO that target me but they're goofy and polite. That's fine.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
So, what I’m getting from this that you sucked at UO and played any of the more difficult content ie: Ancient Worms, Belrons, Ancient Lich. Probably never went to green acers or even the star room for that matter. Never experienced the fun of Order vs. Chaos wars. Your fearful play style caused you miss out on a large portion of content.
I tamed dragons after Trammel came out and killed shadow dragons/balrons and so forth. You have to understand, back in the day I'd get whacked 3 times a week and I was on dial up so PvP wasn't really an option.
I also didn't have a good understanding of PvP games in general and I didn't have a nice attitude about it. Now in FO I go anywhere I please because I've a different attitude now. I also have the means to provide all my own gear.
I still won't play a FLOW game because it attracts people who are bad people in real life. I really disklike trash talking opportunists who are constantly asking "u mad bro?". People who get off on making others mad - I don't want to be around those people.
I have reds in FO that target me but they're goofy and polite. That's fine.
Which just goes to show great gameplay was to be found once the assholes were brought in check, their presence in gaming is a blight on humanity.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
Right, in Fractured I only carry what I'm willing to lose.
If I do have to transport something valuable I do it when I wake in the morning (5am) and take precautions. If I find something of value in the field, I beeline for the bank/house/safety.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
In some games I’d carry a ton of useless shit like rocks buried in bag after bag so a looter would get instantly over burdened. So either they had to loiter and pick through my stuff or just take off with the trash on top
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
That’s the part where I mention “willing to lose.”
I’m sure you could have made multiple trips but there’s always that voice saying “it will be ok.”
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
That’s the part where I mention “willing to lose.”
I’m sure you could have made multiple trips but there’s always that voice saying “it will be ok.”
Actually I had been living in null sec for so long I didn't realize suicide ganking had become much easier and prevalent in close to Jita and my hauler wasn't fitted for defense.
After the gank I would switch out the ships modules for heavy burst damage resistance and I sent scouts a few systems ahead to see what the climate was like at the gates.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
That’s the part where I mention “willing to lose.”
I’m sure you could have made multiple trips but there’s always that voice saying “it will be ok.”
Actually I had been living in null sec for so long I didn't realize suicide ganking had become much easier and prevalent in close to Jita and my hauler wasn't fitted for defense.
After the gank I would switch out the ships modules for heavy burst damage resistance and I sent scouts a few systems ahead to see what the climate was like at the gates.
It was the kind of mistake you only make once.
Whoe! Whoe! Whoe! Waitaminit! You mean there's a "game" out there that you have to think, plan, and even test the environment to "win"?
Don't forget that there are so incredibly many mmorpg that failed because they tried to target the carebears as their audience. They tried making wow clones and making everything as consensual and safe as they can, theme park mmorpgs. Incredibly many stupid dev studios have tried this and wasted so much time and money down the drain.
Their problem is that when they try to target the biggest demographic, they will have so many competitors that it's almost impossible to succeed. That's where the statistic comes from about 99% of games fail because they try to compete against games like WoW.
Despite the failure of many MMORPGs with a PvE focus the successes of such far outnumber those successful games with a strong PvP element.
What you prefer is not a widely shared preference. Accordingly, a small number of games serve that market, notably EVE Online and Albion Online.
There are also some non-commercial options one can seek out but I'll leave that to intrepid search explorers to find.
You may ask for proof of his assertions if you enjoy being called names and his reflexive vomiting of 'carebear' all over the conversation.
I get called names often enough without invitation. I'm not inclined to seek it out further.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
Players who immediately balk at full loot games don't quite put it into perspective. They literally think that what is being stolen is equivalent to World of Warcraft's Purples and Golds and "whatever."
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
I'm sure there were better than great gear but it's my understanding that you don't really use what you aren't willing or prepared to lose. I believe EVE is like this as well.
Why would they develop such a world? Easy. Seriously. Easy. They love it. They want to create a world/game that they love. They hope to attract like minded players.
Now, with your example of Fractured Online, I don't doubt it. There are a lot of angry messed up people who want to inflict inconvenience on others because that's what makes them sleep at night.
Still, as many of them as there are, there ARE players who just play it cool, casual and play the game. They don't insult people or truly mess with people. They just play the game the way it was designed.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Trust me, sometimes what I lost might have been replaceable, but not as easily as you stated. I once lost 3 weeks worth of mining haul in a single gank, estimated worth was about 4B ISK.
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
That’s the part where I mention “willing to lose.”
I’m sure you could have made multiple trips but there’s always that voice saying “it will be ok.”
Actually I had been living in null sec for so long I didn't realize suicide ganking had become much easier and prevalent in close to Jita and my hauler wasn't fitted for defense.
After the gank I would switch out the ships modules for heavy burst damage resistance and I sent scouts a few systems ahead to see what the climate was like at the gates.
It was the kind of mistake you only make once.
Whoe! Whoe! Whoe! Waitaminit! You mean there's a "game" out there that you have to think, plan, and even test the environment to "win"?
A little off topic, but insight into the 'hardcore' guys when they actually get the love they claim they desire:
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
A little off topic, but insight into the 'hardcore' guys when they actually get the love they claim they desire:
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
Thing is, it's a tricky balance. The argument is often made if you are going to punish PKs so harshly that very few will be willing to be one, why bother spending the resources to have open world PVP at all?
Better I think to have PVP restricted to specific zones like DAOC does or even EVE maybe with its relatively safe high sec area.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A little off topic, but insight into the 'hardcore' guys when they actually get the love they claim they desire:
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
Thing is, it's a tricky balance. The argument is often made if you are going to punish PKs so harshly that very few will be willing to be one, why bother spending the resources to have open world PVP at all?
Better I think to have PVP restricted to specific zones like DAOC does or even EVE maybe with its relatively safe high sec area.
Albion Online has zones of varying PvP risk, similar I think to those of EVE. With the two being successful while having a high element of PvP that seems the most effective approach to take.
Also in fairness to people wanting looting and open world pvp, while they are a minority, that type of game has a place as long as it’s made well.
I don't know why a developer would risk trying an open world, full loot, PvP game when (as others pointed out) DaoC's realm approach was such a nice way to handle it. For my part, I've no interest in open world/full loot PvP because it attracts the worst element of the community.
Now in Fractured, there were quite a few reds at first (the population has cratered) but one thing I noticed is the Sheriff system ended up causing many reds to leave or change alignment. Many people who want open world full loot PvP cannot handle it once a system is in place that brings the fight to them in a big way.
I suspect you could have 100,000 full loot wannabes, but once the 5% of that number mastered the game they'd drive off the other 95%. That is why people need to be honest with what they want - they pose and pretend they want PvP when many of them just want to abuse new players.
Conversely, even though being red can be tough in FO, there are reds that are still there and enjoying it.... because they actually like PvP and playing the bad guy.
From my small time in Darkfall what I came to realize is that weapons were relatively plentiful and you'd bank as much as you could so when you got looted you'd just go back to your vault and gear up again.
This is one of the more important traits of a good full loot game.
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
In some games I’d carry a ton of useless shit like rocks buried in bag after bag so a looter would get instantly over burdened. So either they had to loiter and pick through my stuff or just take off with the trash on top
I recall in Lineage the BloodPledge one could drop a single inventory item or piece of gear on death, be it from another player or even a NPC until one leveled their Karma rating up to a certain positive rating. (like +5k)
This took awhile to reach, and was nigh impossible if one PK'd much outside of castle sieges (you could actually have extremely negative karma, like -5K)
So until max karma, most players would stuff their inventories with junk items, usually candles which were cheap and worthless.
I think the slot limit was 100, and I would have 89 candles which meant along with the 10 or gear slots there was a very good chance more often than not a candle or maybe other small value item like potion stacks would drop. (90 out of 110)
Once you hit +5K you were safe from ever dropping anything ever again, unless you decided to start PKing of course.
Negative karma players could even drop more than one item, which increased I think to their entire inventory /equipped gear if in the deep red zone.
Only way to clean the slate I think was to laboriously kill NPCs in the world all the while being flagged as a red which anyone could kill without penalty.
Being killed by another player might have reduced the negative karma more quickly but maybe I'm thinking of a different game on that one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A little off topic, but insight into the 'hardcore' guys when they actually get the love they claim they desire:
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
A little off topic, but insight into the 'hardcore' guys when they actually get the love they claim they desire:
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
Thing is, it's a tricky balance. The argument is often made if you are going to punish PKs so harshly that very few will be willing to be one, why bother spending the resources to have open world PVP at all?
Better I think to have PVP restricted to specific zones like DAOC does or even EVE maybe with its relatively safe high sec area.
Yeah, but then the game loses that "realness", as Gordon Walton put it in that link upstream in this tread.
I also don't like some of the punishments mentioned (item looting based on karma), because I like full loot for its "realness" too, including death to MOBs. Incentive to not die. (I also like the systems as previously mentioned where a player can accumulate gear, somewhat easily, so they don't lose anything more than the time to re-gear, unless they're broke in the bank.)
((This is one of the reasons I always wanted lower power gaps, too. The gear gets pushed closer to usefulness for longer. ))
I think there's got to be a better way, all things considered. UO was almost there but Trammel hit by order of EA, and Mortal Online had it in their original plans but removed it because the PKers complained. Basically, unavoidable punishment for active PKers. Incentive not to do it.
The thing I see, for "realness", is that the game should allow PvP anywhere outside of cities (or similar), and allow those one-time instances where there's a good reason for it (like jerks who ruin player events, or realistic Roleplay instances).
However, doesn't allow constant PKing without punishments. Increasing based on PK activity.
Warfare excluded.
As an example, UO allowed 3 kills per (I think it was) 10 RL days before you got a perma-flag as "red." Meanwhile, you got a gray flag for a few minutes with each kill, allowing others to attack you freely in defense of your target. In this scenario, the only one who gets a "count" towards that number 3 is the guy that started the attacks. He could kill anyone who defends his target without a "count", just getting the 1 for his initial target if he kills them.
*The good: After the change which broke the game space into PvP and PvE worlds, the player base and income nearly doubled (we went from 125k to 245k subs). So from a fiscal responsibility standpoint it was a totally winning move.*
*The bad: Without the "sheep to shear" the hard core PvP'ers were disenfranchised. They didn't like preying on each other (hard targets versus soft targets), and they became a smaller minority in the overall game. The real bad though was that the intensity and "realness" of the game for all players was diminished. This was the major unintended consequence.*
This is exactly what a delusional dev sounds like.
So let me understand this.
He admits he doubled the numbers with the PVE Patch.
He admits he completely stopping the customer abandonment and had way better retention with the PVE Patch.
He admits that way more PVE'ers quit due to the ganking and only a fraction of those came back, which was still DOUBLE the numbers.
Yet this guy wants force all the PVE players into new servers so the 5% of ganker PVP customers wouldnt leave?
So clueless. If they didnt implement the PVE split, then they would have lost the entire PVE population AND THE PVP population LOL. There was no way the majority of players would have switched servers and left everything behind.
Maybe this delusion dev could one day get a clue and understand the reason they didnt get more PVE'ers back is they didnt go far enough fast enough.
Maybe if they didnt spend all their time, creating a new FACTION PVP area that flopped, and instead spent that time building PVE dungeons and PVE content.
Maybe if they didnt give the PVP area 2x all the resources and skill gains.
Maybe if they didnt make a policy where people in PVP zones could have 5 houses, but if you build 1 PVE house then you lose all your other houses.
Maybe if the PVE area had more housing areas, people couldnt even find land, yet the PVP zone was completely empty.
Maybe if they didnt give PVP all the rewards, while PVE players get nothing.
Maybe if they didnt give all the PVP areas all the hookups.
Comments
If only we could have a DAOC 2 be more than vaporware... 3 realms with built in instability and unique classes ? with dungeon access and realm passive on the line.
Those are probably the 5% you talk about.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
In UO I'd just leave town basically naked and I'd equip whatever I found (I'd tame bears, kill orcs). If I got killed they'd often not even take my stuff because it was all garbage. So the rule seems to be: Don't allow players to have significant investments stolen.
I get this, and that is more along the lines of the kind of game design I support, in the sense of knowing your market, knowing your demographic, and what kind of gamer/player you plan to attract to your game
In the sense a game like GW2 / FFXIV / ESO, etc, they are making games, not these just open explorable worlds, but, Games, for players to play in, and this is something a lot of players want, they want that direction, they want those quest givers, they want those reward paths, and all that, the millions of players that are attracted to those games want their Barbie dress up with ass physics!
Now that does not mean that making Virtual Worlds like, IIRC, a game like RUST, or Ark, and others, are bad, but the developers that make those games need to also understand their target demographic, and who they expect to show up and play these games.
This right here is why a modern game based on UO or FLOW-PVP, will not have anywhere near the same kind of environment and dynamic that UO had
When UO launched in the 90's, it was it's own very unique thing, so if you wanted that kind of online MMO expense, it was a very small sampling to chose from, and thus a lot of sheep went into the wolves den
This is also why the PvE servers in EQ exploded with popularity while the PvP one's died off due to inactivity.
With the situation as it is now, with a huge volume of other choices, PvE MMO's galore all over the place, and I might add a lot of top tier choices at that
The only people that are going to go into FLOW-PVP games these days are those that want to PVP, they are there to kill other players, nothing else, they want to loot the body of their slain and do ugly things to their corpse, take video's of it and laugh about it online to their friends that also want to get in line to do the same
As such, if given another option, none the "Sheep" that these players want to prey upon will enter those games, or, they might test it out, get brutally ganked, humiliated, insulted, and after taking that abuse, realize that was stupid, and go back to their Barbie™ Dress Up MMO, flipping that game and the people that like it, the bird on their way out
Leaving all the PvP players wondering why no one wants to play with them.
It's a mystery eh?
Any Dev that does not realize this, is in fact a moron.
Any Dev that thinks they can put shit in to attract PvE players to their Abusive PvP Hell Hole, is a Total Fucking Moron
And this all goes back to my belief of having a target audience, a direct demographic of players that you want to attract to your game, and building a game just for them, focus, target, at the exclusion of all else.
This is also why PvP games are attractive and very successful and PvP MMO's are not, a lot of players want PvP, but when they make a BR's, FPS, MOBA's, all the people going in are there to do one thing, PvP, and there is no illusions about what is about it happen once the round starts. Those games target the hell out of their players single minded desire to Kill other players, and they are very, very, successful at it
I also didn't have a good understanding of PvP games in general and I didn't have a nice attitude about it. Now in FO I go anywhere I please because I've a different attitude now. I also have the means to provide all my own gear.
I still won't play a FLOW game because it attracts people who are bad people in real life. I really disklike trash talking opportunists who are constantly asking "u mad bro?".
People who get off on making others mad - I don't want to be around those people.
I have reds in FO that target me but they're goofy and polite.
That's fine.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now the loss was a withering and a bit rage inducing but what kept me from quitting is the loss was mostly my own greed and stupidity and could have been avoided.
Going forward I made sure to reduce my risk at the expense of some efficiency and never suffered such a great one time loss again.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If I do have to transport something valuable I do it when I wake in the morning (5am) and take precautions. If I find something of value in the field, I beeline for the bank/house/safety.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
After the gank I would switch out the ships modules for heavy burst damage resistance and I sent scouts a few systems ahead to see what the climate was like at the gates.
It was the kind of mistake you only make once.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Waitaminit!
You mean there's a "game" out there that you have to think, plan, and even test the environment to "win"?
What kinda game is that?!
Once upon a time....
I get called names often enough without invitation. I'm not inclined to seek it out further.
Readable Version: I was playing as a red player, and once a day it have to pay 10k + getting hunted / zerged down by 10 sheriffs. Thats what im talking abut
Better I think to have PVP restricted to specific zones like DAOC does or even EVE maybe with its relatively safe high sec area.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Albion Online has zones of varying PvP risk, similar I think to those of EVE. With the two being successful while having a high element of PvP that seems the most effective approach to take.
This took awhile to reach, and was nigh impossible if one PK'd much outside of castle sieges (you could actually have extremely negative karma, like -5K)
So until max karma, most players would stuff their inventories with junk items, usually candles which were cheap and worthless.
I think the slot limit was 100, and I would have 89 candles which meant along with the 10 or gear slots there was a very good chance more often than not a candle or maybe other small value item like potion stacks would drop. (90 out of 110)
Once you hit +5K you were safe from ever dropping anything ever again, unless you decided to start PKing of course.
Negative karma players could even drop more than one item, which increased I think to their entire inventory /equipped gear if in the deep red zone.
Only way to clean the slate I think was to laboriously kill NPCs in the world all the while being flagged as a red which anyone could kill without penalty.
Being killed by another player might have reduced the negative karma more quickly but maybe I'm thinking of a different game on that one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Once upon a time....
I also don't like some of the punishments mentioned (item looting based on karma), because I like full loot for its "realness" too, including death to MOBs. Incentive to not die.
(I also like the systems as previously mentioned where a player can accumulate gear, somewhat easily, so they don't lose anything more than the time to re-gear, unless they're broke in the bank.)
((This is one of the reasons I always wanted lower power gaps, too. The gear gets pushed closer to usefulness for longer. ))
I think there's got to be a better way, all things considered.
UO was almost there but Trammel hit by order of EA, and Mortal Online had it in their original plans but removed it because the PKers complained. Basically, unavoidable punishment for active PKers.
Incentive not to do it.
Once upon a time....
However, doesn't allow constant PKing without punishments. Increasing based on PK activity.
Warfare excluded.
As an example, UO allowed 3 kills per (I think it was) 10 RL days before you got a perma-flag as "red."
Meanwhile, you got a gray flag for a few minutes with each kill, allowing others to attack you freely in defense of your target.
In this scenario, the only one who gets a "count" towards that number 3 is the guy that started the attacks. He could kill anyone who defends his target without a "count", just getting the 1 for his initial target if he kills them.
Once upon a time....
This is exactly what a delusional dev sounds like.
So let me understand this.
Yet this guy wants force all the PVE players into new servers so the 5% of ganker PVP customers wouldnt leave?
So clueless. If they didnt implement the PVE split, then they would have lost the entire PVE population AND THE PVP population LOL. There was no way the majority of players would have switched servers and left everything behind.
Maybe this delusion dev could one day get a clue and understand the reason they didnt get more PVE'ers back is they didnt go far enough fast enough.
But other people have to decide if they want to be the small fish in the big pool or the big fish in the small pool.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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