Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
Yup, spot on!
And, this brings us right back to these PvP games face fucking the earth on launch, because the people (PvE players) they are trying to trick into trying their game are opting to not even take the risk anymore.
In fact, even if they were to do it really well, a lot of PvE players the second they see any kind of PvP mentioned, at all, on any level, atomically Nope out of the game
Not even willing to try it, or test it out, they see anywhere mentioned that the game is even remotely PvP, and they put that shit back on the shelf and go back to playing something else
When the PvP people ask "Aren't you even going to try it?"
The answer from the PvE players comes back "Nope, been burned before, not worth the time or money to risk getting burned again"
Which makes it all that much harder for a new game coming out that might have an decent system, but you know.. fuck them, is what it is, I guess, right?
And that bothers me. I think it's easy to add open world PvP in a way that doesn't bother the PvEers, simply by requiring the PvPers to "enlist" in a military order to play PvP. Furthermore, I think the PvPers and PvEers can even work together for a mutual benefit. Especially if the game had Player run cities (by either side, but more likely both, as equal citizens). But even that won't fly because everyone has gone to their own corners.
Everyone could get along very well, if they'd all just bend a little.
Ungood said: You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I said that shit when you were all vomiting out the ass about how you were owed some shit because you took a gamble on Kick Starter, when the company flat out tells you failure is a risk you take, and now you are going to be like "Buyer Beware"
I don't want to hear shit from you going forward about any scam tactics anyone pulls, got that! You want to play that fucking game lets fucking play it!
You ok there Ungood? You have been, let's say, more profane than usual. Almost like you're a different person. Just discussing on a forum, no reason to go ballistic.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
I agree that if a company lies thats on them and not the customer. 100%. But I do not really know of any instances where thats true about something as basic as PvP. Pretty sure the info is always on their website and easy to find.
But maybe there are instances of outright lying... if so.. thats totally wrong. But again, people have said this about DAoC but it was literally ON THE BOX and they also literally had a Co-Op realm... I suspect this is the case in most instances.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ungood said: You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I said that shit when you were all vomiting out the ass about how you were owed some shit because you took a gamble on Kick Starter, when the company flat out tells you failure is a risk you take, and now you are going to be like "Buyer Beware"
I don't want to hear shit from you going forward about any scam tactics anyone pulls, got that! You want to play that fucking game lets fucking play it!
You ok there Ungood? You have been, let's say, more profane than usual. Almost like you're a different person. Just discussing on a forum, no reason to go ballistic.
I'm the same asshole I always was
But some you have goldfish memories, and forget how badly you were crying like little bitches about that CoE/KS fuckery.
To then turn around have the bare cheek audacity to tell me "Buyer Beware"
The absolute fuck, really?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I said that shit when you were all vomiting out the ass about how you were owed some shit because you took a gamble on Kick Starter, when the company flat out tells you failure is a risk you take, and now you are going to be like "Buyer Beware"
I don't want to hear shit from you going forward about any scam tactics anyone pulls, got that! You want to play that fucking game lets fucking play it!
You ok there Ungood? You have been, let's say, more profane than usual. Almost like you're a different person. Just discussing on a forum, no reason to go ballistic.
I'm the same asshole I always was
But some you have goldfish memories, and forget how badly you were crying like little bitches about that CoE/KS fuckery.
To then turn around have the bare cheek audacity to tell me "Buyer Beware"
The absolute fuck, really?
Apples and space monkeys. Totally different.
You are trying to compare a fiasco like CoE to a game like DAoC (which you literally used earlier). A game that also quite literally had the RvR focus on the box you bought as well as a pure CoOp server at launch.
And you make some false equivalence about “buyer beware”?
Come on…
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
Yup, spot on!
And, this brings us right back to these PvP games face fucking the earth on launch, because the people (PvE players) they are trying to trick into trying their game are opting to not even take the risk anymore.
In fact, even if they were to do it really well, a lot of PvE players the second they see any kind of PvP mentioned, at all, on any level, atomically Nope out of the game
Not even willing to try it, or test it out, they see anywhere mentioned that the game is even remotely PvP, and they put that shit back on the shelf and go back to playing something else
When the PvP people ask "Aren't you even going to try it?"
The answer from the PvE players comes back "Nope, been burned before, not worth the time or money to risk getting burned again"
Which makes it all that much harder for a new game coming out that might have an decent system, but you know.. fuck them, is what it is, I guess, right?
And that bothers me. I think it's easy to add open world PvP in a way that doesn't bother the PvEers, simply by requiring the PvPers to "enlist" in a military order to play PvP. Furthermore, I think the PvPers and PvEers can even work together for a mutual benefit. Especially if the game had Player run cities (by either side, but more likely both, as equal citizens). But even that won't fly because everyone has gone to their own corners.
Everyone could get along very well, if they'd all just bend a little.
Well I am glad you at least realize at this point in game development, this will never happen
Mention "Open World PvP" and you just lost every player that is not looking to straight up PK/Troll, right there
It's good that you have the self awareness to understand that it does not matter how complex, fair, worked out, or whatever system you have designed to make it non-intrusive.
The amount of players that don't like PvP that would risk going into that game is nearing Zero these days.
It's simple really, I mean think about it, the Player that is just looking to PvE gains absolutely nothing going into a PvP game.
In fact, as it stands today, they see going into those kinds of games as something that will become a net negative experience. In short, they try to PvE, or try to just enjoy the game world, and end up being ganked and mocked, and see no reason to do that to themselves.
Not when they are other, more enjoyable, options out there
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The most amusing with those "Internet badasses" who prey on the weak defenseless is that they will most of the times run like little girls as soon as some serious competition arrives on the field. They are assholes and cowards. They do in games what they would get their asses kicked for in real life.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Knowing anything about any game takes a little effort.
Clear declarations must still be read. To be read they must still be found.
It is impossible to effortlessly obtain information.
But some you have goldfish memories, and forget how badly you were crying like little bitches about that CoE/KS fuckery.
To then turn around have the bare cheek audacity to tell me "Buyer Beware"
The absolute fuck, really?
I never cried about any game. Certainly not Chronicles of Elyeria. I never backed it. I only ever supported (looking at the list) four mmorpg crowd funding efforts, Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, Crowfall and Project Gorgon. I canceled my Project Gorgon Pledge before the kickstarter finished.
I doubt you'll find any place where I cried about them (or any other game) other than to say I doubt Pantheon will release.
I reserve the right to express my disappointment and critique games. But I think you are mistaking me with someone else.
I'll add, if you actually find any instance where I cry about any game, I'll eat my hat!
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
But some you have goldfish memories, and forget how badly you were crying like little bitches about that CoE/KS fuckery.
To then turn around have the bare cheek audacity to tell me "Buyer Beware"
The absolute fuck, really?
I never cried about any game. Certainly not Chronicles of Elyeria. I never backed it. I only ever supported (looking at the list) four mmorpg crowd funding efforts, Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, Crowfall and Project Gorgon. I canceled my Project Gorgon Pledge before the kickstarter finished.
I doubt you'll find any place where I cried about them (or any other game) other than to say I doubt Pantheon will release.
I reserve the right to express my disappointment and critique games. But I think you are mistaking me with someone else.
I'll add, if you actually find any instance where I cry about any game, I'll eat my hat!
Alright.. fair, I might be mistaking you for the endless stream of other little shits on this forums.
But you still lost your right to bitch in the future as well, just so you understand that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Knowing anything about any game takes a little effort.
Clear declarations must still be read. To be read they must still be found.
It is impossible to effortlessly obtain information.
Nahh. If you are proud of your Game you tell people about it, You wave that banner like a mutherfukker and tell them how fucking amazing your shit is!
You only hide shit when you're embarrassed by what you did.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Once again, if a game has pvp that can affect a mostly pve player it’s a pvp game. Don’t play it and problem solved.
To me any game with PvE and entirely avoidable PvP is a PvE game, even if my refusal to do PvP puts me at a disadvantage.
In such cases I consider the cost of that disadvantage as the price of my comfort. There would of course have to a be a specific reason I wanted to play that game rather than one where PvP could be avoided at no cost.
EVE Online is a good example. Lacking any other good options for a single universe, sandbox style space sim I played EVE for 10 years even though the PVP side of it I could have largely done without, especially the ganking part.
I love a good fleet fight when I'm sitting in my T3 cruiser (even though I lose a lot) but getting 3B in ISK of ore suicide ganked in my hauler while in .9 Hi-Sec space 1 hop from the marketplace, not so much.
Definitely would go back if they "Trammelized" the game world or at least restored the penalties that discouraged suicide ganking back in the earlier days.
Used to be a single gank in .9 or 1.0 damaged a players reputation so badly they couldn't return to safe space until they finished about 4 weeks of steady NPC ship killing in 0.0 space to get back in Concorde's good graces.
Back when I left in 2016 there was a way to obtain "officers tokens" or something on the marketplace that would restore a players reputation almost instantly, so the gankers could be at the ready to kill you again the next day.
This lead to the formation of groups like "the Code" who would extort miners in Hi-Sec into paying for a "license" to stay safe, all in the name of role playing fun.
Of course, paying for the license meant little, more likely than not if the Code showed up in their 10 throwaway cruisers they were going to gank you regardless.
I of course adapted, mining in extremely remote, dead end systems keeping a cheap bait ship a few systems out which they would kill on the way in, giving me advanced warning to pull my main fleet in to a safe port to wait them out.
All very much emergent gameplay, yet very tedious especially for we who were prey and I no longer have interest in such anymore.
But I do miss that universe so will log in once a year or so just to look around for a bit, and leave until the next time.
It's unfortunate they didn't opt to have a PvE server or that another more PvE focused game of a similar nature doesn't exist. I found the idea of the game appealing, but PvP with consequence isn't my thing.
The closest I've seen is a space game on Steam where players can run their own servers and apparently set them up for PvE only.
Not really the same though as I expect the number of players on a server would be quite limited in number.
I'm surprised there aren't other space games similar to EVE and that science-fiction MMORPGs overall are limited in number. It's a popular enough genre such that I think there would be room for more in the market.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Knowing anything about any game takes a little effort.
Clear declarations must still be read. To be read they must still be found.
It is impossible to effortlessly obtain information.
Nahh. If you are proud of your Game you tell people about it, You wave that banner like a mutherfukker and tell them how fucking amazing your shit is!
You only hide shit when you're embarrassed by what you did.
Yes, and they typically provide those details on a site devoted to the game. To get that information requires going to the site and doing what need be done once there, which is the bit of effort mentioned.
They will likely at times advertise the game as well, but detailed information will still require going to the site and expending a bit of effort to learn.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
Knowing anything about any game takes a little effort.
Clear declarations must still be read. To be read they must still be found.
It is impossible to effortlessly obtain information.
Nahh. If you are proud of your Game you tell people about it, You wave that banner like a mutherfukker and tell them how fucking amazing your shit is!
You only hide shit when you're embarrassed by what you did.
Yes, and they typically provide those details on a site devoted to the game. To get that information requires going to the site and doing what need be done once there, which is the bit of effort mentioned.
They will likely at times advertise the game as well, but detailed information will still require going to the site and expending a bit of effort to learn.
IF.. when I go to a game site, and they don't put it right upfront and center what the deal is going to be when I log in, fuck them, and fuck you for defending them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Yes, and they typically provide those details on a site devoted to the game. To get that information requires going to the site and doing what need be done once there, which is the bit of effort mentioned.
They will likely at times advertise the game as well, but detailed information will still require going to the site and expending a bit of effort to learn.
I want everyone to read this kind of fuckery.
All you PvP loving shits that asks your friends that are not into PvP to try your Amazing game that has PvP in, wonder why they say "Nahh" it's because you defend this kind of bullshit, simple as that.
You defended that bullshit, and now they don't trust you, or the game company to give them an honest rundown on what the real deal is
You fucked yourself, congrats!
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To bring it around, we were talking about pve players. So, if a pve player doesn't want anything to do with pvp wouldn't it be better if they looked into the world, the game, before they jumped in?
Or are you telling me that learning you can be ganked in a game you bought is "half the fun?"
Some games flat out lie about this, or are very deceptive, and they do this to dupe PvE players into playing their game. Not sure why, no PvE player is going to log into their game, get ganked and be like "I fucking love this shit!"
But there are some real douche bags that have taken this to some next levels, Case in point:
Mortal Online, says you can play as you like, if you like PvE or PvP, which is not the case, it's a PvP game, you have no option to not-PvP in that game.
BDO: Made it so that once you made like 50th, the game became Open PvP. That was a downright bullshit move by them, while they quickly made moves to change things due to the backlash, they were very dishonest about how the game was going to work.
DAOC: They also tried to advertise that you didn't have to PvP, when they were first launching to attract the PvE crowed, and when players found out, and made a public outcry about the fact that to make any meaningful advancements they would have to PvP the game lost most of it's PvE players overnight.
EVE: Now, not the company itself in this case, but There is a damn near endless stream of people spewing bullshit that you can PvE in this game, taking about staying in Safe Areas like Low Sec, but it's a PvP game, pure and simple, and it's dishonest for anyone to say otherwise.
If your game requires me to PvP during what would be normal play of the game, just flat out say "It's a PvP Game" it is not a Hybrid Game of PvP/PvE, it's a fucking PvP game and own up to it
GW2 splits up the PvP, you have to directly chose to go into the PvP areas, and they do not offer any better rewards then what you can get in PvE. They are about the closest I have seen to splitting things up right, and I still think there should be a PvE path to getting a GoB.
hmmm ... I knew Black Desert opened up pvp going in. I knew Mortal Online was a pvp game. I knew EVE was certainly a pvp game and that people would figure out loop holes in order to gank people.
Just took a bit of effort.
I don't really see why this is hard. You don't know anything about the game? Don't buy it. Find out if the game has things you don't like. It's not hard. Yes, in the example of Aion they were trying to gloss over the whole pvp part. But that just took a small bit of intuition as they were transparent about the invasions from the other faction.
Read that a few times.. as many times as you like.. till it sinks in, that it should not take effort.
If your game is a PvP game, make that clear.
omg how about this, "just took a little bit of curiosity."
It's not like you are moving mountains or digging a ditch or learning a craft. It's just going to where there is news and finding out a bit about the game you want to play.
Sheesh!
No, fuck that, if PvP is an unavoidable integral part of your fucking game, make that shit fucking clear, don't play some coy ass bullshit.
Don't know what to tell you Ungood, the world isn't always fair. Best you learn it now before you go out into it.
You can start by not defending the bullshit
Unless you like that kind of bullshit done to you, which is a mindset I will never fucking understand to be honest, nor will I respect.
Never defended a thing. Just telling you how things are. More worried that "let the buyer beware" was never said to you.
I've heard that quote many times, but in fact it goes both ways. "Let the seller beware" too, because people have long memories. It used to be, before the modern age of such massive customer bases that the tech age has brought us, that successful businesses absolutely had to adhere to their customer base and their reputation. That still goes, just much less so, because if they lose a few it really doesn't matter anymore.
In this space, gaming, there are a (lot?) of companies who have hurt themselves quite a bit by ignoring that old rule of "The customer is always right." There's been misleading, and forcing the unwanted, and it's a big reason why gaming has taken a downturn.
I agree that if a company lies thats on them and not the customer. 100%. But I do not really know of any instances where thats true about something as basic as PvP. Pretty sure the info is always on their website and easy to find.
But maybe there are instances of outright lying... if so.. thats totally wrong. But again, people have said this about DAoC but it was literally ON THE BOX and they also literally had a Co-Op realm... I suspect this is the case in most instances.
There was a time when there were plenty of flat out lies about how a company was going to fix the PvP issues. Most of them didn't make it to a release. There were a lot of claims such as: "We're not going to let PvPers destroy our game, rest assured. Trust us." But they never planned on doing anything about the issues.
That's led to a mistrust of any game with PvP.
Didn't New World make some promises? It seems to me that they did. Then they came out with the worst possible, most obviously problematic, instance of a PvP game. Open world PvP while also having the big power gaps of a Themepark. (I thought everyone knew what a mess that design is.)
@Ungood mentioned one upstream, too. It's crazy stuff. Amateurish. While not every company does it, it only heightens the distrust overall.
Lol, I was farming skyshards in ESO in the PVP zone Cyrodil and I ganked 5 enemy players who were busy fighting the NPCs in the cave or whatever. (5 and 0 baby!)
While I have well learned how to gank, it felt good yet dirty somehow even though they were the "enemy."
After I got my shards the first time I never did it again, preferring to pay cash money to kit my alts in skyshards, at least those which came from Cyrodil.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lol, I was farming skyshards in ESO in the PVP zone Cyrodil and I ganked 5 enemy players who were busy fighting the NPCs in the cave or whatever. (5 and 0 baby!)
While I have well learned how to gank, it felt good yet dirty somehow even though they were the "enemy."
After I got my shards the first time I never did it again, preferring to pay cash money to kit my alts in skyshards, at least those which came from Cyrodil.
DAoC, Darkness Falls. Was so much fun when enemy realm took control of it when we were in there. Killed tons of low levels. Was a good time. Don't be a hater.
I tried to once, but failed. (feels shameful) Maybe he wasn't such a newb, I don't know. He was "naked" in case he got killed while AFC.
The guy walked into a Dungeon and started a macro to skill up his character. But I hit him too soon and he ran out. The thing was, he had a name that was so offensive that I just couldn't let it go.
I tried to once, but failed. (feels shameful) Maybe he wasn't such a newb, I don't know. He was "naked" in case he got killed while AFC.
The guy walked into a Dungeon and started a macro to skill up his character. But I hit him too soon and he ran out. The thing was, he had a name that was so offensive that I just couldn't let it go.
I used to creep around an underground city in Darkfall that was taken from my clan by an "ally" that betrayed us. I never left that place. I used to just skulk around and kill their afk players and steal/delete all the materials they had on them for macroing. I even went so far as finding the ones that glitched into terrain or inaccessible building spaces (you could hear them macroing spells) and figure out how they did it so I could get in and kill them. I would do this naked so that when I died it cost me nothing. Was much fun. I even used to have friendly chats with the non-afk folks while they hunted me and I killed their friends.
They even called a GM on me to try and "catch me" glitching in. They watched me and talked to me. They saw me just do it to get the AFK people, delete their loot, and then move on. And the GM actually thanked me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They do in games what they would get their asses kicked for in real life.
A lot of the internet is like this.
I used to wonder who are these people irl? Thing is they act that way irl too. People just like to be assholes for no reason these days everywhere you go, especially behind the wheel of a vehicle.
They do in games what they would get their asses kicked for in real life.
A lot of the internet is like this.
I used to wonder who are these people irl? Thing is they act that way irl too. People just like to be assholes for no reason these days everywhere you go, especially behind the wheel of a vehicle.
Florida highways be like
They don't call I-4 "Fury Road" for no reason.
Legislators are passing some new laws to keep people from driving in the left lane unless they are "passing."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They do in games what they would get their asses kicked for in real life.
A lot of the internet is like this.
I used to wonder who are these people irl? Thing is they act that way irl too. People just like to be assholes for no reason these days everywhere you go, especially behind the wheel of a vehicle.
You have the bullies IRL who carry that over to the internet. But then you also have those who are meek IRL who suddenly become keyboard warriors online and in games and want to get "revenge" for how they are treated in life.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
Furthermore, I think the PvPers and PvEers can even work together for a mutual benefit. Especially if the game had Player run cities (by either side, but more likely both, as equal citizens).
But even that won't fly because everyone has gone to their own corners.
Everyone could get along very well, if they'd all just bend a little.
Once upon a time....
You ok there Ungood? You have been, let's say, more profane than usual. Almost like you're a different person. Just discussing on a forum, no reason to go ballistic.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But maybe there are instances of outright lying... if so.. thats totally wrong. But again, people have said this about DAoC but it was literally ON THE BOX and they also literally had a Co-Op realm... I suspect this is the case in most instances.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But some you have goldfish memories, and forget how badly you were crying like little bitches about that CoE/KS fuckery.
To then turn around have the bare cheek audacity to tell me "Buyer Beware"
The absolute fuck, really?
And you make some false equivalence about “buyer beware”?
Come on…
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Mention "Open World PvP" and you just lost every player that is not looking to straight up PK/Troll, right there
It's good that you have the self awareness to understand that it does not matter how complex, fair, worked out, or whatever system you have designed to make it non-intrusive.
The amount of players that don't like PvP that would risk going into that game is nearing Zero these days.
It's simple really, I mean think about it, the Player that is just looking to PvE gains absolutely nothing going into a PvP game.
In fact, as it stands today, they see going into those kinds of games as something that will become a net negative experience. In short, they try to PvE, or try to just enjoy the game world, and end up being ganked and mocked, and see no reason to do that to themselves.
Not when they are other, more enjoyable, options out there
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Knowing anything about any game takes a little effort.
Clear declarations must still be read. To be read they must still be found.
It is impossible to effortlessly obtain information.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But you still lost your right to bitch in the future as well, just so you understand that.
You only hide shit when you're embarrassed by what you did.
It's unfortunate they didn't opt to have a PvE server or that another more PvE focused game of a similar nature doesn't exist. I found the idea of the game appealing, but PvP with consequence isn't my thing.
The closest I've seen is a space game on Steam where players can run their own servers and apparently set them up for PvE only.
Not really the same though as I expect the number of players on a server would be quite limited in number.
Yes, and they typically provide those details on a site devoted to the game. To get that information requires going to the site and doing what need be done once there, which is the bit of effort mentioned.
They will likely at times advertise the game as well, but detailed information will still require going to the site and expending a bit of effort to learn.
All you PvP loving shits that asks your friends that are not into PvP to try your Amazing game that has PvP in, wonder why they say "Nahh" it's because you defend this kind of bullshit, simple as that.
You defended that bullshit, and now they don't trust you, or the game company to give them an honest rundown on what the real deal is
You fucked yourself, congrats!
Most of them didn't make it to a release.
There were a lot of claims such as:
"We're not going to let PvPers destroy our game, rest assured. Trust us."
But they never planned on doing anything about the issues.
That's led to a mistrust of any game with PvP.
Didn't New World make some promises? It seems to me that they did. Then they came out with the worst possible, most obviously problematic, instance of a PvP game. Open world PvP while also having the big power gaps of a Themepark.
(I thought everyone knew what a mess that design is.)
@Ungood mentioned one upstream, too.
It's crazy stuff. Amateurish.
While not every company does it, it only heightens the distrust overall.
Once upon a time....
While I have well learned how to gank, it felt good yet dirty somehow even though they were the "enemy."
After I got my shards the first time I never did it again, preferring to pay cash money to kit my alts in skyshards, at least those which came from Cyrodil.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
DAoC, Darkness Falls. Was so much fun when enemy realm took control of it when we were in there. Killed tons of low levels. Was a good time. Don't be a hater.
Maybe he wasn't such a newb, I don't know. He was "naked" in case he got killed while AFC.
The guy walked into a Dungeon and started a macro to skill up his character. But I hit him too soon and he ran out. The thing was, he had a name that was so offensive that I just couldn't let it go.
Once upon a time....
They even called a GM on me to try and "catch me" glitching in. They watched me and talked to me. They saw me just do it to get the AFK people, delete their loot, and then move on. And the GM actually thanked me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They don't call I-4 "Fury Road" for no reason.
Legislators are passing some new laws to keep people from driving in the left lane unless they are "passing."
90 mph +, (145 kmh) here I come.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018