Industry Layoffs 'An Avoidable F**k Up': Larian Dev Calls Out Trend In Interview | MMORPG.com

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Industry Layoffs 'An Avoidable F**k Up': Larian Dev Calls Out Trend In Interview | MMORPG.com

In a recent interview, Larian's head of publishing called out the stockholder-focused nature of the modern games industry.

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Neoyoshi

Someone should think about laying off the shareholders.

Sandmanjw

So funny, who is it that always sells out to the big companies?

Same dev's that take the cash and run, then wail and lament how terrible those big Corp bloodsucker are.

Heh, a company that jumped on the early release bandwagon and let the players pay for them to develop the game....ya, they sure talk shit.

Kyleran

People who work for game devs should probably avoid complex economic theory.

Corporate greed is actually not at the forefront of reasons why the industry as a whole is suffering a contraction right now.

Brainy

I dont understand this corporate greed arguement.

If corporations were greedy they would force devs to make games people want to play.  They would stop the devs from making stupid games that suck.

Pushing out games like Elden Ring that make 1+ billion a pop.
Games that cost 100million and make 1+ billion is huge profit for companies.  If the shareholders were greedy then they would hiring CEO's to push extremely popular games.

The real issue is that shareholders dont trust the devs to push out a game that will make money.  Why cant the devs be trusted?  Because most of these studios have no clue how to make games players want.

The only thing game studios can do is lay people off and sit on their old IP's, mostly because dev teams cant consistent make good games people want to pay for.

Kickaxe

Sandmanjw said:

So funny, who is it that always sells out to the big companies?

Same dev's that take the cash and run, then wail and lament how terrible those big Corp bloodsucker are.

Heh, a company that jumped on the early release bandwagon and let the players pay for them to develop the game....ya, they sure talk shit.

Who actually cares whether or not it's a bandwagon if it's being utilized to make a great game that is hugely popular?

And which developers are doing this wailing and lamenting while they take the cash and run? If there are many, I hope they all got paid well and called out the corporate greed at the top of their voices.

KnightFalz

Neoyoshi said:

Someone should think about laying off the shareholders.

The owners can't be laid off.

Scot

I have not read the actual interview, but "corporate greed" seems not to be mentioned by Mr Douse. What he seems to be pointing to is the effect of having a studio so heavily tied to investors. He is not saying this is down to greed (rather a knee jerk reaction there), it is about being expected to push out game after game in short order all with strong monetarization.

I take the point about BG3 going into early access, Larian has not managed to avoid all the bad practice in gaming today, but I would ask if you think that's bad practice for Larian I assume you think it is a bad practice per se?

Also if the gaming industry believes this was "inevitable" they are keeping their head in the sand.

riningear

Sandmanjw said:

So funny, who is it that always sells out to the big companies?



Same dev's that take the cash and run, then wail and lament how terrible those big Corp bloodsucker are.



Heh, a company that jumped on the early release bandwagon and let the players pay for them to develop the game....ya, they sure talk shit.

I mean, they made three iterations of this franchise, made this one one of the biggest games of the year, if not decade so far, boosted one of Hasbro's franchises with minimal help from them while Hasbro goes around fucking with it on their own end*, and aren't even laying off their staff in the midst.

And I'm pretty sure this is exactly the sort of scale of development Early Access is meant to address.

Y'all know I hate AAA production, like I have a whole damn op-ed about that here, but I'm pretty sure that's just called a success story in a more pragmatic frame of mind.

(*This is probably no small part of why they aren't returning to D&D, by the way. Hazarding a long shot of a guess but have you seen how they're handling D&D and MTG?)

Scot

riningear said:

I mean, they made three iterations of this franchise, made this one one of the biggest games of the year, if not decade so far, boosted one of Hasbro's franchises with minimal help from them while Hasbro goes around fucking with it on their own end*, and aren't even laying off their staff in the midst.

And I'm pretty sure this is exactly the sort of scale of development Early Access is meant to address.

Y'all know I hate AAA production, like I have a whole damn op-ed about that here, but I'm pretty sure that's just called a success story in a more pragmatic frame of mind.

(*This is probably no small part of why they aren't returning to D&D, by the way. Hazarding a long shot of a guess but have you seen how they're handling D&D and MTG?)

AAA has and can still be the hallmark of quality that made gaming the entertainment phenomena it is. The issues we are addressing here are down to studios and investors, not trying for the very highest production standards.

Mallyx

Brainy said:

I dont understand this corporate greed arguement.

If corporations were greedy they would force devs to make games people want to play.  They would stop the devs from making stupid games that suck.

Pushing out games like Elden Ring that make 1+ billion a pop.
Games that cost 100million and make 1+ billion is huge profit for companies.  If the shareholders were greedy then they would hiring CEO's to push extremely popular games.

The real issue is that shareholders dont trust the devs to push out a game that will make money.  Why cant the devs be trusted?  Because most of these studios have no clue how to make games players want.

The only thing game studios can do is lay people off and sit on their old IP's, mostly because dev teams cant consistent make good games people want to pay for.

Shareholders do no care if a game is good or bad. They only care that it's profitable.

So make a game, market it to hell and release it. Get the hype train going well enough and it will sell. Don't waste time with things like polish or bug fixing, people are already hyped for the game. Just get it out there now to make maximum profit.

Oh and if it looks like reviews will be bad then don't let the reviewers have a copy until the last minute (Starfield?). Shut up Devs, you've sold out its now all about the money.

Larian didn't have these same pressures from any shareholders and could make the game and release when they believed it was ready. Their early access was the way EA access should be done. For me, that is a better way for game development when done correctly.

Sovrath

Scot said:

I have not read the actual interview, but "corporate greed" seems not to be mentioned by Mr Douse. What he seems to be pointing to is the effect of having a studio so heavily tied to investors. He is not saying this is down to greed (rather a knee jerk reaction there), it is about being expected to push out game after game in short order all with strong monetarization.

I take the point about BG3 going into early access, Larian has not managed to avoid all the bad practice in gaming today, but I would ask if you think that's bad practice for Larian I assume you think it is a bad practice per se?

Also if the gaming industry believes this was "inevitable" they are keeping their head in the sand.

Some don’t like early access but it’s fine as long as it’s a good studio.

It gives them an immediate influx of cash and they get an idea of how many hardcore devoted players they might get.

 when you see a studio that hasn’t launched a game and cant show a decent amount of work for a kickstarted game and then you have to worry.

In Lariam’s case they’ve launched many games.

Scot

Sovrath said:

Scot said:

I have not read the actual interview, but "corporate greed" seems not to be mentioned by Mr Douse. What he seems to be pointing to is the effect of having a studio so heavily tied to investors. He is not saying this is down to greed (rather a knee jerk reaction there), it is about being expected to push out game after game in short order all with strong monetarization.

I take the point about BG3 going into early access, Larian has not managed to avoid all the bad practice in gaming today, but I would ask if you think that's bad practice for Larian I assume you think it is a bad practice per se?

Also if the gaming industry believes this was "inevitable" they are keeping their head in the sand.

Some don’t like early access but it’s fine as long as it’s a good studio.

It gives them an immediate influx of cash and they get an idea of how many hardcore devoted players they might get.

 when you see a studio that hasn’t launched a game and cant show a decent amount of work for a kickstarted game and then you have to worry.

In Lariam’s case they’ve launched many games.

I had this discussion when BG3 went EA, the fact there are good actors doing early access just means the bad actors find it easier to get away with it in my eyes.

Xiaoki

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

KnightFalz

Mallyx said:

Brainy said:

I dont understand this corporate greed arguement.

If corporations were greedy they would force devs to make games people want to play.  They would stop the devs from making stupid games that suck.

Pushing out games like Elden Ring that make 1+ billion a pop.
Games that cost 100million and make 1+ billion is huge profit for companies.  If the shareholders were greedy then they would hiring CEO's to push extremely popular games.

The real issue is that shareholders dont trust the devs to push out a game that will make money.  Why cant the devs be trusted?  Because most of these studios have no clue how to make games players want.

The only thing game studios can do is lay people off and sit on their old IP's, mostly because dev teams cant consistent make good games people want to pay for.

Shareholders do no care if a game is good or bad. They only care that it's profitable.

So make a game, market it to hell and release it. Get the hype train going well enough and it will sell. Don't waste time with things like polish or bug fixing, people are already hyped for the game. Just get it out there now to make maximum profit.

Oh and if it looks like reviews will be bad then don't let the reviewers have a copy until the last minute (Starfield?). Shut up Devs, you've sold out its now all about the money.

Larian didn't have these same pressures from any shareholders and could make the game and release when they believed it was ready. Their early access was the way EA access should be done. For me, that is a better way for game development when done correctly.

Of course they care. Good games are more profitable than bad. It's just not their only care as profitability isn't solely linked to how good a game is.

KnightFalz

Xiaoki said:

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

Should that happen I expect they will become less expressive, or what they express will generate less interest.

Raskbuck

I know a lot of people don't like Early Access (rightfully so), but in Larian's case, I think it served as an opportunity to incorporate players' feedback.

That's probably why the start of the game was generally well received, and the bugs/complaints were focused towards the later half of the game. The last part wasn't accessible until the full release, from the way I understand it.

Regardless, Larian itself has had a turbulent relationship with publishers in the past. When they were first starting out, they almost went bankrupt because of the pressure they had to release an unfinished product. I don't find it too surprising they are voicing their discontent of them because of that.

Sovrath

Scot said:

Sovrath said:

Some don’t like early access but it’s fine as long as it’s a good studio.

It gives them an immediate influx of cash and they get an idea of how many hardcore devoted players they might get.

 when you see a studio that hasn’t launched a game and cant show a decent amount of work for a kickstarted game and then you have to worry.

In Lariam’s case they’ve launched many games.

I had this discussion when BG3 went EA, the fact there are good actors doing early access just means the bad actors find it easier to get away with it in my eyes.

I think people just have to be smarter with who they give money to.

most of the crowd funded projects I’ve backed have been fulfilled.

waiting on one that’s coming along nicely.

The two that I’m not holding my breath for are Pantheon and Camelot Unchained.

Though Pantheon was backed when they showed more of the world and game play and I just Backed Camelot Unchained out of curiosity.

Scot

Xiaoki said:

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

A fair comment, but do you think the majority of gaming industry which overtook films and music together (!) as the biggest grossing entertainment industry has since that happened been feeling "the money is tight"? What studios have been doing to keep up with the demands of investors and shareholders has wrought where gaming is today. I see no signs this is going to be a wake up call for the gaming industry the downturn was supposedly "unavoidable", so we are going to see more industry woes for sure.

Neoyoshi

With regards to Larian, all I can personally hope for is that they are mindful of the past mistakes a rising star makes in this industry, from Atari to Nintendo, Blizzard, Bethesda, and, in more recent memory, the tragedy of CDPR falling victim to their own fame and hubris (which I know they've been trying to repair).

I don't want to type something cliché and cynical, like "Money and fame only leave rot and decay in their wake." But the business side is always necessary, and I think it comes down to human beings trying to retain a moral compass when navigating and doing their best to treat each other with kindness and dignity.

Xiaoki

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

A fair comment, but do you think the majority of gaming industry which overtook films and music together (!) as the biggest grossing entertainment industry has since that happened been feeling "the money is tight"? What studios have been doing to keep up with the demands of investors and shareholders has wrought were gaming is today. I see no signs this is going to be a wake up call for the gaming industry the downturn was supposedly "unavoidable", so we are going to see more industry woes for sure.

"Wake up call?" What wake up call?

A lot of studios made big money during the Covid lock down days and went on a hiring spree but now that everything has gotten back to normal the Covid profits are no longer there, so these companies have a lot of excess developers.

The only "wake up call" people need is that correlation still does not equal causation.

Scot

Xiaoki said:

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

A fair comment, but do you think the majority of gaming industry which overtook films and music together (!) as the biggest grossing entertainment industry has since that happened been feeling "the money is tight"? What studios have been doing to keep up with the demands of investors and shareholders has wrought were gaming is today. I see no signs this is going to be a wake up call for the gaming industry the downturn was supposedly "unavoidable", so we are going to see more industry woes for sure.

"Wake up call?" What wake up call?

A lot of studios made big money during the Covid lock down days and went on a hiring spree but now that everything has gotten back to normal the Covid profits are no longer there, so these companies have a lot of excess developers.

The only "wake up call" people need is that correlation still does not equal causation.

Gaming journalists have cited what has been called "user fatigue with monetization" as a factor in this, posters on this site are not alone in this view. Sure Corvid was as big a factor, but if the industry thinks it has to look no further than that it is mistaken.

Wordsworth

I don't think capitalism is bad or anything, but you have to maintain a balance between the financial aspect and the artistic scope of a game.

I always think of the dichotomy or the Garriott brothers.  Without Richard, you wouldn't have the creative game with interesting and new features.  Without Rob, you'd have feature bloat, a never-ending development cycle, and you'd likely run out of cash. 

Right now, it's a little heavy on the corporate side of things.

Xiaoki

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Larian just had a big hit so something like this is easy for them to say.

Let's see how they think when their next project doesn't do nearly as well and money is tight.

A fair comment, but do you think the majority of gaming industry which overtook films and music together (!) as the biggest grossing entertainment industry has since that happened been feeling "the money is tight"? What studios have been doing to keep up with the demands of investors and shareholders has wrought were gaming is today. I see no signs this is going to be a wake up call for the gaming industry the downturn was supposedly "unavoidable", so we are going to see more industry woes for sure.

"Wake up call?" What wake up call?

A lot of studios made big money during the Covid lock down days and went on a hiring spree but now that everything has gotten back to normal the Covid profits are no longer there, so these companies have a lot of excess developers.

The only "wake up call" people need is that correlation still does not equal causation.

Gaming journalists have cited what has been called "user fatigue with monetization" as a factor in this, posters on this site are not alone in this view. Sure Corvid was as big a factor, but if the industry thinks it has to look no further than that it is mistaken.

Gaming Journalists are idiots and posters on MMORPG are bigger idiots.

I said it in a topic about Dragons Dogma 2 that people will complain about microtransactions online but still pay for them. 

What people say and what they actually do is VASTLY different. The last 6000 years of human civilization is testament to this.

Scot

Xiaoki said:

Gaming Journalists are idiots and posters on MMORPG are bigger idiots.

I said it in a topic about Dragons Dogma 2 that people will complain about microtransactions online but still pay for them. 

What people say and what they actually do is VASTLY different. The last 6000 years of human civilization is testament to this.

Then presumably for every studio that has already made adjustments for something that has purely happened due to Corvid it will be plain sailing from here on? Because it won't if that fatigue has set in, we will not know the truth of this for about another year, then we shall see. I am not predicting a collapse here, I am predicting a lack of recovery.

Xiaoki

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Gaming Journalists are idiots and posters on MMORPG are bigger idiots.

I said it in a topic about Dragons Dogma 2 that people will complain about microtransactions online but still pay for them. 

What people say and what they actually do is VASTLY different. The last 6000 years of human civilization is testament to this.

Then presumably for every studio that has already made adjustments for something that has purely happened due to Corvid it will be plain sailing from here on? Because it won't if that fatigue has set in, we will not know the truth of this for about another year, then we shall see. I am not predicting a collapse here, I am predicting a lack of recovery.

Of course there's going to be a lack of recovery. For many developers and publishers things are going back down to normal levels.

So, the recovery will come in the form of new avenues of revenue. Which means PC or mobile.

Unicorn Overlord has been a big hit but the developer, VanillaWare, told the publisher, Atlus, that they will not make a PC version. Which, with the console market shrinking because of Xbox, is insane.