Uvalde Families Sue Activision, Meta, Manufacturer For Marketing AR-15 Style Gun To Shooter | MMORP

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Uvalde Families Sue Activision, Meta, Manufacturer For Marketing AR-15 Style Gun To Shooter | MMORPG.com

Several families whose children were killed in the Uvalde shooting have sued Meta, alleging its Instagram and Activision subsidiaries 'conditioned' the shooter.

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Unintended

Well this isn't going to win in court lol.... I saw someone holding a knife on TV earlier and so I stabbed a load of people today.....

Abimor

I'm sorry they lost their children but whats next were going to sue ford, gm, and budlight for every person who dies due to a drunk driver or is killed in an auto accident.

Scot

"This three-headed monster"

It does not matter what is really going on if there is a chance you can get money you sue. I assume this was on a no initial fee basis, so why not? This sort of barratry is part of the  legal system which is so detrimental to our society.

riningear

I don't think the parents are going to actually win on the Activision front, but I just really wonder what we're going to learn about all three of these companies (separately or together) in the discovery process. Makes me wonder if that's actually the point here.

Aeander

I feel terrible for them, but Activision isn't to blame for America's shitty gun culture or lack of mental healthcare.

Xiaoki

"have sued Meta, the new owner of Call of Duty developer Activision"

What the hell is going on with MMORPG articles?

Seriously, this is embarrassing.

achesoma

Xiaoki said:

"have sued Meta, the new owner of Call of Duty developer Activision"

What the hell is going on with MMORPG articles?

Seriously, this is embarrassing.

Yeah it's very poorly written. Thee different companies: Meta, Activision, and Daniel Defense are all being sued. Hope this helps clarify what article is trying to say.

Kyleran

Xiaoki said:

"have sued Meta, the new owner of Call of Duty developer Activision"

What the hell is going on with MMORPG articles?

Seriously, this is embarrassing.

AI doesn't always get it right. 

olepi

In Uvalde, over FOUR HUNDRED police waited for OVER AN HOUR because they were afraid to confront one teenager with an AR-15. The children called several times on the phone for help, but it didn't come.

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

I doubt the parents will win this lawsuit, but they are desperate.

Quizzical

Something bad happened, so let's sue some random companies that had nothing to do with it but happen to have a lot of money. But let's not sue the people who were actually responsible (primarily the murderer, and to a lesser extent, the police who should have gone in to stop him but didn't) because they don't have tons of money.

Completely frivolous lawsuits like this raise the cost of developing games. Costs of doing business will always be passed on to the customer, and that means that the money spent fighting off such lawsuits will inevitably come from gamers one way or another. Even if the companies win the lawsuit, that doesn't mean that their lawyers work for free.

Raagnarz

olepi said:

In Uvalde, over FOUR HUNDRED police waited for OVER AN HOUR because they were afraid to confront one teenager with an AR-15. The children called several times on the phone for help, but it didn't come.

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

I doubt the parents will win this lawsuit, but they are desperate.

Exactly. The ONLY ones getting sued here should be the police departments and the individual cops that pissed their pants cowering outside while children were dying begging for help. These are the people paid, and supposedly trained, to handle these situations. I have the utmost respect for police as a whole, most want to truly help and know they are in a dangerous line of work. But these wastes of space, I loathe to call them actual police, should be charged with accessories to the murder of every person that died. Why? Because they, the people who are supposed to stop it, had no problem letting it go on. For fucks sake more teachers did whatever they could to protect the children, some losing their lives doing it, than the cops did. But this blaming games or movies is somehow even more repugnant. If the shooter stopped at McDonalds for a happy meal before he went to kill those people, should McDonalds be sued too? There were A LOT of failures in this whole situation, however none of them were games or movies. And all of those failures were all the adults that were supposed to do their jobs but were too cowardly to.

Arglebargle

The lawyer for the case has serious legal clout.  He brought the hammer down on Remington, and Alex Jones.  Tips the odds that it may develop into a crusade, as opposed to getting the insurance limits from the deep pockets.

The game companies obviously fetishize the guns in those games.  It's a major part of the appeal.  And they were pretty tight with the gun companies and NRA in some instances.  Does it rise to the level of culpability?  Not in my estimation.  But that's why jury consultants have jobs.

Sadly, the cops involved basically walked with nothing other than public shaming.  At least the police chief got bounced from his job, but ....

BrotherMaynard

From the various articles about this it seems it's not about guns per se, it is about Activision and Meta advertising a specific real world weapon to very impressionable youngsters.

So their angle is that instead of having a generic fictional weapon in the game with made up name, looks and characteristics and with no link to a real world product, Activision and Meta took Daniel Defense's money and added a very specific, identifiable and easy to purchase model that DD makes into the game.

They will not argue against gun use in general, but against the presence of an existing purchasable weapon in the game and in Instagram ads, including its full name / model, characteristics, etc., which then guided the perpetrator to buy the exact same model.

They would have no chance with the generic gun control argument, but taking the other, very specific angle will give them a chance, I think...

riningear said:

I don't think the parents are going to actually win on the Activision front, but I just really wonder what we're going to learn about all three of these companies (separately or together) in the discovery process. Makes me wonder if that's actually the point here.

Not making any predictions here, but I can see how this could go their way. If there is a jury trial and the plaintiffs focus on emotional arguments about conspiracy between the three companies, fueled by greed, and hammer home the whole argument about money, ads, specific real world weapons in games and on Instagram, etc., I would hesitate to place any bets on this one.

Nebless

As I understand it, the game is rated Mature and the kid started playing when he was 15. 

Hopefully the defense lawyer will hammer the parents for letting the kid play the game.

It's a tragedy but where were the Parents?


And yes like BrotherMaynard said, odds are the jury will ignore facts and feel sorry for the parents and award them a judgement.   

No different than the woman that set her McDonal's coffee on the cars sloped dash and when the car moved it fell on her and burned her.  She made out on that one too.

Neoyoshi

Blaming video games is an age old tactic that shouldn't even be considered for litigation, but sadly that's what happens, people look to place blame on different media instead of going after the core problem.

The core problem being the absurd ease and access to military-grade assault weapons without background checks, mostly peedled by vendors at firearms trade shows and just going online.

I don't like Call of Duty, but i would never in my wildest fantasies blame the game for how people behave or what they do, because that's nonsense and it doesn't solve any of the real problems and issues, it just distracts from it.

Hengist

olepi said:

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

With the exception that your statement is 100% false...sure...


Four who were involved in the decision making that day lost their jobs. That's generally what's considered a repercussion. Now in terms of legal repercussions, that's a whole 'nother story.

I don't blame the rank and file who were there, and kept asking why they weren't doing something, definitely hold the chief and anyone who made, or did not make any kind of decision.

Hengist

Raagnarz said:

olepi said:

In Uvalde, over FOUR HUNDRED police waited for OVER AN HOUR because they were afraid to confront one teenager with an AR-15. The children called several times on the phone for help, but it didn't come.

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

I doubt the parents will win this lawsuit, but they are desperate.

Exactly. The ONLY ones getting sued here should be the police departments and the individual cops that pissed their pants cowering outside while children were dying begging for help. These are the people paid, and supposedly trained, to handle these situations. I have the utmost respect for police as a whole, most want to truly help and know they are in a dangerous line of work. But these wastes of space, I loathe to call them actual police, should be charged with accessories to the murder of every person that died. Why? Because they, the people who are supposed to stop it, had no problem letting it go on. For fucks sake more teachers did whatever they could to protect the children, some losing their lives doing it, than the cops did. But this blaming games or movies is somehow even more repugnant. If the shooter stopped at McDonalds for a happy meal before he went to kill those people, should McDonalds be sued too? There were A LOT of failures in this whole situation, however none of them were games or movies. And all of those failures were all the adults that were supposed to do their jobs but were too cowardly to.

Without starting a raging argument in here, I'll just to politely say that I think your anger is misplaced.


The rank and file officers were wanting to go in, and like in pretty much any other job, they are trained to follow orders. They are a "team". One random officer doing his own thing stood a better chance of making the situation worse.

The outrage? Try blaming the decision makers who either thru neglect, or stupidity, consistently made bad choices. Those are the ones who should should have had criminal charges brought against them. 

Whenever something goes wrong, and it does sometimes go wrong, the heat ends up on the police. Sometimes it's not preventable, but in this case, I think most folks who know, would tend to think that the situation should have been handled in a far different manner. 

olepi

Hengist said:

olepi said:

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

With the exception that your statement is 100% false...sure...


Four who were involved in the decision making that day lost their jobs. That's generally what's considered a repercussion. Now in terms of legal repercussions, that's a whole 'nother story.

I don't blame the rank and file who were there, and kept asking why they weren't doing something, definitely hold the chief and anyone who made, or did not make any kind of decision.

I guess I meant by repercussions things like getting charged and prosecuted for negligence, or being sued and losing money. None of them have faced anything like that that I could find.

The Sheriff is running for re-election, the police chief Arrendondo was fired but he had been elected to the City Council and served on that for a short while until he resigned. Another officer resigned.

I recently heard a parent complain that it was hard to see these people still walking around the town.

If it was a failure of training and management, why didn't any of their superiors who are supposed to be in charge of that face any consequences?

Losing your job doesn't sound like much when you stood around and watched 20 kids get killed.

I don't see how a game company could be liable, so the parents' lawsuit will probably fail.

Kyleran

The lawyers are following a similar strategy as was used for Sandy Hook lawsuits.

Trying to prove the defendants aggressively marketed and trained gamers how to use a specific brand and model of AR-15.

The defendents in that case decided to settle out, probably will be a similar outcome here as well.

https://rockinst.org/blog/the-sandy-hook-remington-settlement-consequences-for-gun-policy/

Dammam

Hengist said:

Raagnarz said:

olepi said:

In Uvalde, over FOUR HUNDRED police waited for OVER AN HOUR because they were afraid to confront one teenager with an AR-15. The children called several times on the phone for help, but it didn't come.

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

I doubt the parents will win this lawsuit, but they are desperate.

Exactly. The ONLY ones getting sued here should be the police departments and the individual cops that pissed their pants cowering outside while children were dying begging for help. These are the people paid, and supposedly trained, to handle these situations. I have the utmost respect for police as a whole, most want to truly help and know they are in a dangerous line of work. But these wastes of space, I loathe to call them actual police, should be charged with accessories to the murder of every person that died. Why? Because they, the people who are supposed to stop it, had no problem letting it go on. For fucks sake more teachers did whatever they could to protect the children, some losing their lives doing it, than the cops did. But this blaming games or movies is somehow even more repugnant. If the shooter stopped at McDonalds for a happy meal before he went to kill those people, should McDonalds be sued too? There were A LOT of failures in this whole situation, however none of them were games or movies. And all of those failures were all the adults that were supposed to do their jobs but were too cowardly to.

Without starting a raging argument in here, I'll just to politely say that I think your anger is misplaced.


The rank and file officers were wanting to go in, and like in pretty much any other job, they are trained to follow orders. They are a "team". One random officer doing his own thing stood a better chance of making the situation worse.

The outrage? Try blaming the decision makers who either thru neglect, or stupidity, consistently made bad choices. Those are the ones who should should have had criminal charges brought against them. 

Whenever something goes wrong, and it does sometimes go wrong, the heat ends up on the police. Sometimes it's not preventable, but in this case, I think most folks who know, would tend to think that the situation should have been handled in a far different manner. 

I don't particularly disagree with anything you said, but there is a broader problem of accountability that gets lost in the nuance and complexity of society. When a tragedy like this occurs, some argue that systems are missing or lacking and push for systemic changes, effectively holding the system accountable. Those arguments are shot down by those arguing for personal responsibility and who suggest that only individuals can truly be accountable for their actions. The problem is that we tend to argue opposite sides in different instances. When it's regarding the shooter, it's all about the individual owning their actions but when it's regarding the officers it's about the system they are a part of. 

Naturally, there are differences between shooters and officers and those nuances impact how we should approach the issue, but in our world of oversimplified takes and positions all that is lost and we are left with very little accountability. I would think any reasonable analysis would suggest that some degree of accountability lies at the feet of everyone involved, even those of us who simply share the basic duties of a voting citizen. That's not to say that this burden is equally shared by all, mind you. Of course, some hold a far larger share of the responsibility and must be held to greater account.

Regarding the officers, not acting against orders in the heat of the moment is one thing but there is nothing preventing them from holding those who barred them from action accountable after the fact. Perhaps I've missed that and it is what is happening, but I am not aware of it.

As for the lawsuit, it is another example of our continuing issues with accountability. To my knowledge, plenty of people from countries with far fewer rates of mass shootings play games like CoD, so I'm highly skeptical of a direct causal relationship. But trying to hold a game studio accountable is far easier than trying to address the more complex shortcomings in our system, society, and culture. At least that's how I see it.

Scot

Hengist said:

olepi said:

None of the police have had any repercussions for their cowardice.

With the exception that your statement is 100% false...sure...


Four who were involved in the decision making that day lost their jobs. That's generally what's considered a repercussion. Now in terms of legal repercussions, that's a whole 'nother story.

I don't blame the rank and file who were there, and kept asking why they weren't doing something, definitely hold the chief and anyone who made, or did not make any kind of decision.

I certainly don't think there should have been legal repercussions or we are back to the legal money making merry go round. But losing their jobs was the right call, for a sound society people need to be held accountable and no money should change hands.

riningear

Xiaoki said:

"have sued Meta, the new owner of Call of Duty developer Activision"

What the hell is going on with MMORPG articles?

Seriously, this is embarrassing.

My bad, I was fighting a fresh brand of chronic illness headache and saying that instead of Microsoft seems to have slipped through the cracks. No AI here, all human who wrote an introduction after that whopper of other context.

You'll know I'm replaced when "I" say something like "there are no problems in society" or "Bethesda's AAA games are trustworthy launches."

Angrakhan

As a parent I cannot fathom the pain these parents are going through and will for the rest of their lives. Losing your child to the senseless act of some monster is not something you simply get over or move on from. My deepest condolences to the families.

That being said why not sue the monitor manufacturer for displaying the images the shooter watched? How about the keyboard and mouse manufacturer for letting him provide input to play the game? What about the GPU manufacturer for rendering the images? What about the electricity provider for powering the PC and charging his phone? What about the vehicle manufacturer for building the car he drove to go execute his sick twisted murder fantasy on highschool kids? What about the gas station that put the gasoline in his vehicle?

Aren't all these companies just as liable?

The sad thing about this whole lawsuit is it isn't about justice or preventing this atrocity from happening again it's about lawyers looking for a big payday. They picked the companies with the deep pockets who are most likely to come to an out of court settlement because they're more concerned with the negative publicity of a protracted legal battle held in the public forum than they are shelling out some cash to make this go away.

waveslayer

not sure why they are going after a video game company, bad advice from thier lawyers looking to cash in maybe, but its similar to the 80s when D&D and metal bands where blamed for everything that was wrong with society.

I would put the blame more on the NRA and the republican party and its head, they are the ones pushing the gun culture, but it will be easier to convince a jury in texas that its a games fault, not thier own,ie the majority of the jury...

Angrakhan

waveslayer said:

not sure why they are going after a video game company, bad advice from thier lawyers looking to cash in maybe, but its similar to the 80s when D&D and metal bands where blamed for everything that was wrong with society.



I would put the blame more on the NRA and the republican party and its head, they are the ones pushing the gun culture, but it will be easier to convince a jury in texas that its a games fault, not thier own,ie the majority of the jury...

Right right because the gun pulled it's own trigger. Never blame the shooter. Always someone else's fault. Typical.