Well I do care about pixels because of the time and effort I spent gathering it and if they are plants or things I need to take care off , the time and effort I spent doing that. It is very cavalier to simply dismiss them as pixels when you didn't consider the time and effort I may have spent elsewhere had I not decided to spend it in the game.
My time is incredibly valuable to me. I don't know about you but anyone who cheapens the value of time does not realise how finite it is. So fuck yes I care about those damn pixels.
If you are playing a game that allows some negative event to impact your garden or take it away from you, and that would bother you, then I highly suggest not playing a game that allows that. Be that an NPC event, or PvP, or Early Access, or anything else that might jeopardize your pixel garden. What if your pixel garden had a chance to catch a disease and all die off? Just like could happen in a real garden? Would your time have been wasted? Not in my view. My time would have been spent having fun building my pixel garden. But if you do NOT find the process fun, and only the end result, then absolutely you should stick to a game with zero risk of environmental, NPC or other players ever impacting your play.
To go back to what @Sovrath said above: not every game is made for everyone. Nor should they be
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
To go back to what @Sovrath said above: not every game is made for everyone. Nor should they be
On the flip side of that coin, obviously the number of players the game was intended for aren't sufficient to keep it afloat or make the effort worthwhile. So, blaming people who helped support this sinking ship seems off track. Maybe blame the developer for targeting an "intended audience" that is too small to support their effort. Maybe blame the "intended audience" for feeling entitled to a game they can't and won't support.
It's similar to people bitching about the BethesdaMax game studio closures. If those people wanted Tango to stay afloat, then more of them should have bought HiFi Rush or Ghostwire Tokyo. In those cases though, since they weren't live service, the "wrong people" didn't artificially prop up the losing deal like we're seeing here.
Well I do care about pixels because of the time and effort I spent gathering it and if they are plants or things I need to take care off , the time and effort I spent doing that. It is very cavalier to simply dismiss them as pixels when you didn't consider the time and effort I may have spent elsewhere had I not decided to spend it in the game.
My time is incredibly valuable to me. I don't know about you but anyone who cheapens the value of time does not realise how finite it is. So fuck yes I care about those damn pixels.
RIght we are seeing alot of posts saying why do people care about the pixels, but really it is all about the time invested....Think of it this way...let's say your job is entering data....after your 8 hour day is done you go home, but if someone else destroys it, then you have accomplished nothing.
Well I do care about pixels because of the time and effort I spent gathering it and if they are plants or things I need to take care off , the time and effort I spent doing that. It is very cavalier to simply dismiss them as pixels when you didn't consider the time and effort I may have spent elsewhere had I not decided to spend it in the game.
My time is incredibly valuable to me. I don't know about you but anyone who cheapens the value of time does not realise how finite it is. So fuck yes I care about those damn pixels.
RIght we are seeing alot of posts saying why do people care about the pixels, but really it is all about the time invested....Think of it this way...let's say your job is entering data....after your 8 hour day is done you go home, but if someone else destroys it, then you have accomplished nothing.
I still think much of the PvP debate goes back to the intangibles that developers don't take into consideration when attempting to balance the playing field.
A few examples come to mind:
Usually, the red has the element of surprise, which is huge. Remaining hidden until the victim is at half health is nearly a guaranteed win.
Usually, the red is geared/set up to kill another player while the victim is usually geared to fight mobs.
It is rarely the pixels since I lose gear to monsters or it wears out on its own while I'm playing, and in FO you wouldn't lose your gear. People are upset because of the psychological component. They're upset about losing in a video game but also a profound sense of violation.
"You care too much about pixels" is what reds say, but when they do this, they are really side stepping the huge issues that have nothing to do with pixels. After all, why do they go through so much trouble to get these pixels? They're just pixels right?
And no, I'm not dogging on anyone in this thread who mentioned "just pixels". I respect all the posters here in this thread - I know what you mean.
Loss and the journey are two separate things. I can enjoy the journey and moan the loss.
Every person deals with loss in different ways. Lots of folk lose their shit in dungeons and scream and leave. It used to happen in Everquest all the time. People dying and losing their corpse and rage quitting.
What does that have to do with the journey. I enjoy every thing I do to achieve the thing I do in games. I can also get mad when I lose it. I don't think it's unusual to be like that. You make it sound like that is odd behaviour. Is it though? Perhaps it may make playing PvP games easier but that does not mean that there is a right or wrong way to feel about losing to PvE or PvP.
Unless you start yelling on voice chat or abusing people in game , feeling upset and angry is just a coping mechanism.
While it is true that not every game is meant for everyone then leaving said game should not be considered a betrayal either. However the blame seems to be put on the shoulders of the people who decided that indeed the game is not for them because their exodus had an undesirable effect.
While it is true that not every game is meant for everyone then leaving said game should not be considered a betrayal either. However the blame seems to be put on the shoulders of the people who decided that indeed the game is not for them because their exodus had an undesirable effect.
I don't blame people for leaving, but I do blame, judge, condemn look askance at people who are extremely intolerant of PvP and yet buy a game that has it advertised on the box.
It's like going to McDonald's and then complaining that the menu is mostly hamburgers and junk food when what you really want is a light salad and a shrimp cocktail.
You have a preference, no problem, but I don't want to listen to you complain in discord every day when you selected the wrong game. Then when you suggest "hey buddy, you might want to find a different title", you're the jerk.
Disclaimer: I have never played FO but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
I took a look at the official release notice and learned the following.
Although mentioned once, it escaped some here that there is no wipe being planned, instead creating a fresh start server.
This is one of those PO-ta-to vs. Po-TAH-to things in that by moving all the new players and activity over to a new 'fresh start' sever, the few of us still playing will be left behind on a dead server that will eventually be shut down anyways.
So correct, technically not a wipe, but practically speaking it is little more than semantics as the end result is the same. (You can keep all your stuff and play alone on a dead server)
As for the promise of PvE only - a person could easily get to max level in that 40hr. window and get any skills they wanted without ever egaging in PvP; however, they'd have to know what they're doing right out of the gate - I think it's fair to grant that as a broken promise.
The PvE crowd found it irritating they couldn't get to all resources without PvP; the PvP crowd was extremely irritated that people could farm in safe zones without being robbed. Both are sociopaths, IMHO.
What? This isn't fair compensation for your previous time spent?
"forced decision for us. As a token of our gratitude for being here before, if you have reached rank 30 with at least one character on Genesis before this post was released, you will get:
An exclusive mount skin, armor recolor and title.
Free VIP time and tokens.
We will consider additional VIP and token rewards for the players who really played a lot – with thresholds and amounts to be defined!"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To go back to what @Sovrath said above: not every game is made for everyone. Nor should they be
On the flip side of that coin, obviously the number of players the game was intended for aren't sufficient to keep it afloat or make the effort worthwhile. So, blaming people who helped support this sinking ship seems off track. Maybe blame the developer for targeting an "intended audience" that is too small to support their effort. Maybe blame the "intended audience" for feeling entitled to a game they can't and won't support.
It's similar to people bitching about the BethesdaMax game studio closures. If those people wanted Tango to stay afloat, then more of them should have bought HiFi Rush or Ghostwire Tokyo. In those cases though, since they weren't live service, the "wrong people" didn't artificially prop up the losing deal like we're seeing here.
Of course it ultimately is ALWAYS the company’s fault. They are the ones making the decisions. They had a Kickstarter and barely beat their goal of around $100k. From roughly 1000 backers. This is what happens when you set unreasonably low goals just to be sure you meet them. As a test of market reception, the fact they had just about 1000 backers should have told everyone how this would end. Even Ember Adrift said they hoped for 10k subs.
I found the game pitch to be too P2W which is NEVER going to end well IMHO especially for a PvP game. So I never backed it. They also had quite a checkered beta. There are a ton of reasons it’s failing.
But at the end of the day… buying a game that you don’t like the premise of is kind of silly. Let Darwin’s Law run it’s course.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What? This isn't fair compensation for your previous time spent?
"forced decision for us. As a token of our gratitude for being here before, if you have reached rank 30 with at least one character on Genesis before this post was released, you will get:
An exclusive mount skin, armor recolor and title.
Free VIP time and tokens.
We will consider additional VIP and token rewards for the players who really played a lot – with thresholds and amounts to be defined!"
I have two Eternal Accounts, so they have lifetime VIP time (thanks for nothing) and other rewards I never received already.
I just uninstalled and said good-bye to my friends there.
Not really angry, just it is really hard to leave all that behind when so much has been invested. It really is the first MMORPG where I felt like I was finally winning - which is probably the hardest thing to surrender.
I'd probably give it another shot, but have to keep reminding myself they'll be back down to 10 players again 3 months after launch. I hope that isn't the case, but I'd be an idiot to waste any more time there.
Sometimes you give up a game not because of loss but because it is just too much. I recall years ago when I started playing FFXI I think in 2001. I was quite high level and was in a static group and a class very much in demand. A red mage/white mage. I log in to immediate tells. I was unable to keep up with the group schedule and had to leave and they were furious. I quit the game because of it as I could not handle the fact that they considered my leaving a betrayal.
I have always been extremely unambitious in gaming because I started playing after giving birth and becoming a stay at home mum who used to work often 10-12 hours a day. It was absolutely horribly disorienting and lonely. I had all this time and nothing to do aside from a baby that slept a lot. I mean I simply was like a fish out of water so I started playing games on the Playstation and gradually drifted to the PC. My goals were often what the guild needed or what my friends wanted. I spent a lot of time helping people in Everquest.
So while I had suffered very bad losses including losing so many levels in the Plane of Fear and almost losing everything on my corpses in varying states of loot as I would loot halfway and die. Yes I think 10 corpses in there easily. I was crying and weeping and truly upset. Yeah I enjoyed playing and getting to where I was and what I had spent months collecting meant a lot to me. I was never one who chased the loot because of the loot. I was on DKP system and earned them often the best items on the server.
What I truly enjoyed was the camaraderie and the friends I had made. While the loot meant a lot my friends meant more.
You have no idea what people play games for or why they feel loss. You're making assumptions based on your own motives. It's really funny that we spend so much time on games and not even realising how unhealthy that in itself is when making these sweeping generalisations about how one approaches losing stuff in games. It is also absolutely untrue that your behaviour in game is reflective of how you are in real life. I was very competitive when I was working but very much unambitious in games. I was happy to get by and just enjoy the friends I made.
I play PvP games even when I cannot handle loss to another player and especially being looted. I go to great lengths to avoid PvP and am happy with what I manage to obtain. It's like a challenge for me to see how far I can get without engaging in PvP. I do participate in WoW BGs and I love it in a support role. For me WoW BGs were the absolute best time in PvP I have enjoyed.
Feeling loss and being upset about losing the stuff you spent a lot of time obtaining is natural. I think it is completely wrong especially because I am in that category that feels loss keenly to say it diminishes the journey. I recall the journey in a great detail and the items not so much when I think back to my days in Everquest or FFXI. The journey is why I still keep in touch with the friends I made in Everquest. How can that journey's worth be diminished because I don't want to lose what items I have collected permanently and that was the risk in Everquest; permanent loss.
How can my feelings about Everquest almost 25 years on be about the people and the conversations I enjoyed and not about the loot. That disproves with finality that journey and items aren't the same and feeling the loss of one does not diminish the other. I felt the loss very keenly and cried buckets when it looked like I was done for but it never made me think the 50 levels I spent and the months of daily logins were lost because I lost all my loot. That's ludicrous.
How can you equate the value of two completely different aspects of playing. One is the journey and the latter the fruit of your journey. While it is not a good thing to be so upset about losing pixels I cannot change how I feel so I am being honest about it.
You have no idea what people play games for or why they feel loss. You're making assumptions based on your own motives. It's really funny that we spend so much time on games and not even realising how unhealthy that in itself is when making these sweeping generalisations about how one approaches losing stuff in games. It is also absolutely untrue that your behaviour in game is reflective of how you are in real life. I was very competitive when I was working but very much unambitious in games. I was happy to get by and just enjoy the friends I made..
... I am not convinced that the "journey" and the "rewards" should be considered separately.
I'm not sure. For rewards, I think of a dependency tree of crafting: to make the top tier, I have to make a whole tree of lower tier items. This is common in games, and people get satisfaction out of completing the tree and being able to make XYZ.
I know what the reward is, and how to get it.
A journey to me implies movement into the unknown, where you discover something new or progress the story somehow. That is its own reward, I guess. Not the same really though.
This is true. One does obtain a laundry list of achievements and even Steam does this so well and you end up chasing it. However those are different types of rewards. When I speak about 'the journey' in a game like Everquest it is not only about the levels or items you've managed to collect or work up to by doing a quest chain but the path you take with the people you play with.
The areas, dungeons, planes that is the physical part but also the people you play with and the unique experiences you encountered like a quarrel with some other group trying to take your camp spot or some amusing thing that happened. Anything that broke up the monotony of your camp including the whispers and chats you had.
The people are very much a part of that journey and that isn't tied to the reward per se so you cannot really say that the rewards you have obtained is the same as the journey because you took that journey to obtain that reward. There were moments like when I first set eyes on the Temple of Veeshan or seen the inside of the Plane of Hate, those are moments that had nothing to do with the rewards but just pure moments of joy that you've made it to that place and looking at it for the first time.
Or making a run from Qeynos to High Pass and not dying in between like the 4 times before that. That's exhilaration you can associate with a journey. Something like what Bilbo Baggins writes about when he talks about 'his journey'.
This is true. One does obtain a laundry list of achievements and even Steam does this so well and you end up chasing it. However those are different types of rewards. When I speak about 'the journey' in a game like Everquest it is not only about the levels or items you've managed to collect or work up to by doing a quest chain but the path you take with the people you play with.
The areas, dungeons, planes that is the physical part but also the people you play with and the unique experiences you encountered like a quarrel with some other group trying to take your camp spot or some amusing thing that happened. Anything that broke up the monotony of your camp including the whispers and chats you had.
The people are very much a part of that journey and that isn't tied to the reward per se so you cannot really say that the rewards you have obtained is the same as the journey because you took that journey to obtain that reward. There were moments like when I first set eyes on the Temple of Veeshan or seen the inside of the Plane of Hate, those are moments that had nothing to do with the rewards but just pure moments of joy that you've made it to that place and looking at it for the first time.
Or making a run from Qeynos to High Pass and not dying in between like the 4 times before that. That's exhilaration you can associate with a journey. Something like what Bilbo Baggins writes about when he talks about 'his journey'.
Interesting read. The closest I came to a feeling of journey as you express it was when I first played City of Heroes back in the day. Even then I didn't feel it to the same degree of depth as you describe. Perhaps my isolationist tendencies put such beyond my reach.
I enjoyed my journey in FO quite a bit. I also enjoy the rewards of the journey along the way.
For example, we got the "wipe" announcement within a week of me being able to craft high level fire staffs. I created by first max staff (the best you can get), only now I won't really get a chance to use it. I also recently became capable of creating max level scholar armor - both of these were significant grinds to raise the skill, but significant grinds just to get the materials and gold required to do it.
I use the word "grind" but I enjoyed it well enough, the problem is, I wanted to take that gear and explore the next level of character development, and instead I have to do three months of work all over again.
There are 5 or 6 staffs in the game and I wanted to max those out as well. Instead of moving onto those, I have to all over again - so it is more like getting half way through a journey and it being reset - and the reset keeps you from moving onto new material.
There are 5 or 6 staffs in the game and I wanted to max those out as well. Instead of moving onto those, I have to all over again - so it is more like getting half way through a journey and it being reset - and the reset keeps you from moving onto new material.
Been there, done that, have a drawer full of the mfukin t-shirts.
We'll be starting all over on 7D2D when it's 1.0 release comes out this summer.
While most survival players restart after say 75 game days, we have been playing it like a MMORPG so our server /build has been up for almost a year now, for over 1500 game days, or 3000 hours.
So it will be with some trepidation that I'll soon have to wipe the world from our server but fortunately it won't take more than say 4 or 5 months to get back to the same place we were.
We also should get the opportunity perhaps to try some of the major overhaul mods such as Darkness Falls or Undead Legacy, which unfortunately will require us to start all over once more.
It's challenging to get used to the lack of persistance these survival worlds have to them, but we are slowly learning to adapt.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are 5 or 6 staffs in the game and I wanted to max those out as well. Instead of moving onto those, I have to all over again - so it is more like getting half way through a journey and it being reset - and the reset keeps you from moving onto new material.
Been there, done that, have a drawer full of the mfukin t-shirts.
We'll be starting all over on 7D2D when it's 1.0 release comes out this summer.
While most survival players restart after say 75 game days, we have been playing it like a MMORPG so our server /build has been up for almost a year now, for over 1500 game days, or 3000 hours.
So it will be with some trepidation that I'll soon have to wipe the world from our server but fortunately it won't take more than say 4 or 5 months to get back to the same place we were.
We also should get the opportunity perhaps to try some of the major overhaul mods such as Darkness Falls or Undead Legacy, which unfortunately will require us to start all over once more.
It's challenging to get used to the lack of persistance these survival worlds have to them, but we are slowly learning to adapt.
What on earth have you been doing in 7D2D for an entire year?
Likewise, in FO if I were to restart again, I'd progress rather quickly, probably getting to where I am now in 1/3 the time. I'm on the fence, less because of the work involved and more because I doubt the developer will be able to keep the lights on.
The roadmap they just released has announced the following:
The option to be a good player and never be subjected to PvP.
A new fresh start server that will split the population. (10 players, sheesh)
I don't blame the developers for trying but their sheriff system was absolutely the best thing I've seen in these types of game in a very long time and they just threw it all away. A loud contingent of WIPE THE SERVER AND WE'LL COME BACK boneheads means I'll lose millions (hundreds of hours of work).
The good news is summer is just starting so I can go outside, do some yard work, and do something else.
I gambled a few hundred on an indie team, had fun for a bit, but ultimately lost. That's gaming.
Turns out you couldn't stay away. Too bad, I hope they didn't soak you for more cash
The roadmap they just released has announced the following:
The option to be a good player and never be subjected to PvP.
A new fresh start server that will split the population. (10 players, sheesh)
I don't blame the developers for trying but their sheriff system was absolutely the best thing I've seen in these types of game in a very long time and they just threw it all away. A loud contingent of WIPE THE SERVER AND WE'LL COME BACK boneheads means I'll lose millions (hundreds of hours of work).
The good news is summer is just starting so I can go outside, do some yard work, and do something else.
I gambled a few hundred on an indie team, had fun for a bit, but ultimately lost. That's gaming.
Turns out you couldn't stay away. Too bad, I hope they didn't soak you for more cash
I don't see that happening at this point. After the wipe/re-launch they had a surge, but now it is tapering off.
By the end of September, I think they'll be back down to a few dozen players.
Comments
To go back to what @Sovrath said above: not every game is made for everyone. Nor should they be
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
RIght we are seeing alot of posts saying why do people care about the pixels, but really it is all about the time invested....Think of it this way...let's say your job is entering data....after your 8 hour day is done you go home, but if someone else destroys it, then you have accomplished nothing.
A few examples come to mind:
- Usually, the red has the element of surprise, which is huge. Remaining hidden until the victim is at half health is nearly a guaranteed win.
- Usually, the red is geared/set up to kill another player while the victim is usually geared to fight mobs.
- It is rarely the pixels since I lose gear to monsters or it wears out on its own while I'm playing, and in FO you wouldn't lose your gear. People are upset because of the psychological component. They're upset about losing in a video game but also a profound sense of violation.
"You care too much about pixels" is what reds say, but when they do this, they are really side stepping the huge issues that have nothing to do with pixels. After all, why do they go through so much trouble to get these pixels? They're just pixels right?And no, I'm not dogging on anyone in this thread who mentioned "just pixels".
I respect all the posters here in this thread - I know what you mean.
Every person deals with loss in different ways. Lots of folk lose their shit in dungeons and scream and leave. It used to happen in Everquest all the time. People dying and losing their corpse and rage quitting.
What does that have to do with the journey. I enjoy every thing I do to achieve the thing I do in games. I can also get mad when I lose it. I don't think it's unusual to be like that. You make it sound like that is odd behaviour. Is it though? Perhaps it may make playing PvP games easier but that does not mean that there is a right or wrong way to feel about losing to PvE or PvP.
Unless you start yelling on voice chat or abusing people in game , feeling upset and angry is just a coping mechanism.
While it is true that not every game is meant for everyone then leaving said game should not be considered a betrayal either. However the blame seems to be put on the shoulders of the people who decided that indeed the game is not for them because their exodus had an undesirable effect.
It's like going to McDonald's and then complaining that the menu is mostly hamburgers and junk food when what you really want is a light salad and a shrimp cocktail.
You have a preference, no problem, but I don't want to listen to you complain in discord every day when you selected the wrong game. Then when you suggest "hey buddy, you might want to find a different title", you're the jerk.
"forced decision for us. As a token of our gratitude for being here before, if you have reached rank 30 with at least one character on Genesis before this post was released, you will get:
We will consider additional VIP and token rewards for the players who really played a lot – with thresholds and amounts to be defined!"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But at the end of the day… buying a game that you don’t like the premise of is kind of silly. Let Darwin’s Law run it’s course.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I just uninstalled and said good-bye to my friends there.
Not really angry, just it is really hard to leave all that behind when so much has been invested. It really is the first MMORPG where I felt like I was finally winning - which is probably the hardest thing to surrender.
I'd probably give it another shot, but have to keep reminding myself they'll be back down to 10 players again 3 months after launch. I hope that isn't the case, but I'd be an idiot to waste any more time there.
And no, I won't be going to Pax Dei early access.
*shutter*
I have always been extremely unambitious in gaming because I started playing after giving birth and becoming a stay at home mum who used to work often 10-12 hours a day. It was absolutely horribly disorienting and lonely. I had all this time and nothing to do aside from a baby that slept a lot. I mean I simply was like a fish out of water so I started playing games on the Playstation and gradually drifted to the PC. My goals were often what the guild needed or what my friends wanted. I spent a lot of time helping people in Everquest.
So while I had suffered very bad losses including losing so many levels in the Plane of Fear and almost losing everything on my corpses in varying states of loot as I would loot halfway and die. Yes I think 10 corpses in there easily. I was crying and weeping and truly upset. Yeah I enjoyed playing and getting to where I was and what I had spent months collecting meant a lot to me. I was never one who chased the loot because of the loot. I was on DKP system and earned them often the best items on the server.
What I truly enjoyed was the camaraderie and the friends I had made. While the loot meant a lot my friends meant more.
You have no idea what people play games for or why they feel loss. You're making assumptions based on your own motives. It's really funny that we spend so much time on games and not even realising how unhealthy that in itself is when making these sweeping generalisations about how one approaches losing stuff in games. It is also absolutely untrue that your behaviour in game is reflective of how you are in real life. I was very competitive when I was working but very much unambitious in games. I was happy to get by and just enjoy the friends I made.
I play PvP games even when I cannot handle loss to another player and especially being looted. I go to great lengths to avoid PvP and am happy with what I manage to obtain. It's like a challenge for me to see how far I can get without engaging in PvP. I do participate in WoW BGs and I love it in a support role. For me WoW BGs were the absolute best time in PvP I have enjoyed.
Feeling loss and being upset about losing the stuff you spent a lot of time obtaining is natural. I think it is completely wrong especially because I am in that category that feels loss keenly to say it diminishes the journey. I recall the journey in a great detail and the items not so much when I think back to my days in Everquest or FFXI. The journey is why I still keep in touch with the friends I made in Everquest. How can that journey's worth be diminished because I don't want to lose what items I have collected permanently and that was the risk in Everquest; permanent loss.
How can my feelings about Everquest almost 25 years on be about the people and the conversations I enjoyed and not about the loot. That disproves with finality that journey and items aren't the same and feeling the loss of one does not diminish the other. I felt the loss very keenly and cried buckets when it looked like I was done for but it never made me think the 50 levels I spent and the months of daily logins were lost because I lost all my loot. That's ludicrous.
How can you equate the value of two completely different aspects of playing. One is the journey and the latter the fruit of your journey. While it is not a good thing to be so upset about losing pixels I cannot change how I feel so I am being honest about it.
I'm not sure. For rewards, I think of a dependency tree of crafting: to make the top tier, I have to make a whole tree of lower tier items. This is common in games, and people get satisfaction out of completing the tree and being able to make XYZ.
I know what the reward is, and how to get it.
A journey to me implies movement into the unknown, where you discover something new or progress the story somehow. That is its own reward, I guess. Not the same really though.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
The areas, dungeons, planes that is the physical part but also the people you play with and the unique experiences you encountered like a quarrel with some other group trying to take your camp spot or some amusing thing that happened. Anything that broke up the monotony of your camp including the whispers and chats you had.
The people are very much a part of that journey and that isn't tied to the reward per se so you cannot really say that the rewards you have obtained is the same as the journey because you took that journey to obtain that reward. There were moments like when I first set eyes on the Temple of Veeshan or seen the inside of the Plane of Hate, those are moments that had nothing to do with the rewards but just pure moments of joy that you've made it to that place and looking at it for the first time.
Or making a run from Qeynos to High Pass and not dying in between like the 4 times before that. That's exhilaration you can associate with a journey. Something like what Bilbo Baggins writes about when he talks about 'his journey'.
Interesting read. The closest I came to a feeling of journey as you express it was when I first played City of Heroes back in the day. Even then I didn't feel it to the same degree of depth as you describe. Perhaps my isolationist tendencies put such beyond my reach.
I also enjoy the rewards of the journey along the way.
For example, we got the "wipe" announcement within a week of me being able to craft high level fire staffs. I created by first max staff (the best you can get), only now I won't really get a chance to use it. I also recently became capable of creating max level scholar armor - both of these were significant grinds to raise the skill, but significant grinds just to get the materials and gold required to do it.
I use the word "grind" but I enjoyed it well enough, the problem is, I wanted to take that gear and explore the next level of character development, and instead I have to do three months of work all over again.
There are 5 or 6 staffs in the game and I wanted to max those out as well. Instead of moving onto those, I have to all over again - so it is more like getting half way through a journey and it being reset - and the reset keeps you from moving onto new material.
We'll be starting all over on 7D2D when it's 1.0 release comes out this summer.
While most survival players restart after say 75 game days, we have been playing it like a MMORPG so our server /build has been up for almost a year now, for over 1500 game days, or 3000 hours.
So it will be with some trepidation that I'll soon have to wipe the world from our server but fortunately it won't take more than say 4 or 5 months to get back to the same place we were.
We also should get the opportunity perhaps to try some of the major overhaul mods such as Darkness Falls or Undead Legacy, which unfortunately will require us to start all over once more.
It's challenging to get used to the lack of persistance these survival worlds have to them, but we are slowly learning to adapt.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Likewise, in FO if I were to restart again, I'd progress rather quickly, probably getting to where I am now in 1/3 the time. I'm on the fence, less because of the work involved and more because I doubt the developer will be able to keep the lights on.
Turns out you couldn't stay away. Too bad, I hope they didn't soak you for more cash
After the wipe/re-launch they had a surge, but now it is tapering off.
By the end of September, I think they'll be back down to a few dozen players.