I mean Rings of Power is based on a last little tid-bid from the Silmarillion. Which is basically just an omnibus of a collection of story drafts/brainstorms of J.R.R. Tolkien working out Middle Earth. The creation, how the races came to be, short various depictions of the First to Third Ages and what transpired. All in a very fragmented way.
It wasn't until much later that Christopher Tolkien tried to write a lot himself and add to it in later releases of the Silmarillion you come to know and after that Children of Hurin.
And still, The Silmarillion itself was a very hard read, because it was just fragments of short stories taking place all over the timeline. There was a reason why J.R.R. Tolkien publisher refused to release the early version back in the day and ultimately led to Tolkien writing the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings books.
So the Rings of Power TV Series has obviously gotten some freedom to deviate from the Silmarillion to create a watchable TV series out of it. Just as Christopher Tolkien has taken artistic liberty himself to add his own to his father's works. Especially with the Children of Hurin book. (which was excellent by the way... much better to read than the Silmarillion).
When it comes to Rings of Power. I both liked and hated Season 1. It was a very conflicted season, with some really cringe and outright bad episodes.
However, Season 2 was much better in my opinion and put the series more in line with the Lore around the actual Rings of Power and how they came to be. Gandalf reveal in the last episode was an artistic liberty taken for sure, just found the name reveal a bit too cringe. But overall.... a much better season and I am actually looking forward to Season 3, unlike how I felt at the end of Season 1.
I agree. I thought season 1 was good but the focus on Galadriel took the focus off other players I thought would be more interesting to follow. Season 2 changed the focus, and it was better for it. Seeing the city of Eregion destroyed was epic fantasy. Loved it. As a fantasy fan I was enthralled and excited to watch season 2 more and more each episode. Looking forward to Season 3 very much.
But there is entirely too many edits just because "Tolkien needs to be told in the modern language" or, even worse, because "I know better than Tolkien"(what hubris and disrespect!). And the quality isn't high enough to offset these problems. Not nearly so.
Yet that, again, is just your opinion. I think the quality is top tier and I am not alone in that. The reality is Simon Tolkien was involved in the storyline the show created and it is his family's work. The featurette 'after the show' for the final episode this season even talks about that. It isn't just the writers thinking 'we know better' it is how can we flesh this storyline out that was not written and stay true 'enough' to the overarching story that millions already know from the books. It uses appendices, compressed timelines, the input of Simon and added new characters to move the narrative forward. "Where the core of the original lies" as Tolkien said. As has been reported, the sales of the books are up since the show premiered, both in the first season and the second. The third week of the second season 'Fellowship' spiked to number one on Amazon bestsellers list. Same thing happened in season one. The danger of an unfaithful adaptation is that it discounts and devalues a writer's work. Rings of Power isn't doing this, because it has dramatically boosted sales of the books. Basing art off of art is a way to inspire more people to explore the original artistic core. That is exactly what it is doing.
The reason his works continue to sell as well as they do over all these years is because the works are being interpreted into different mediums. From radio dramas, to animation, the video games, to films to television shows and beyond. They live on because they are kept fresh and relevant by new works based where the core of the original lie.
That is a very, very American thing to say.
As for Simon, who is he? I mean, did he even talk or remember his grandpa? How do we know that this marring isn't intended and that Simon don't care about LoTR or his family's legacy(=black sheep)?
I'm not American so I am not sure what that means. I assume you are referring to sales reference. That is mentioned because if they are selling well because of the show ( which they provenly are) than that means more people are introduced to the core works which is what you want them to be exposed to correct? Your stance is: "This show is not the real representation of Tolkien's works these books are" True enough, and the exposure that media like this brings to the source material is a positive for purists.
I like how all that post encompassed, and you pull out and focus on the one point you can rebuttal. With a weird black sheep grandson reference. So what? Tolkien's own literary circle had mixed feelings about his works. It is not a masterpiece to many. Even in his own circle. (look it up) Just a mainstream commercial work. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. Yet they are not religious tomes. Many people feel they are good for the fantasy genre but not for literature overall. Tolkien himself opened up his books to commercialism during his lifetime. You know why? He needed money. This bastion of literary integrity did the thing that posters here argue is ruining the core works. He sold out. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous. Let it go. They are 'fantasy' books written forever ago. Without the movies and games and show the books would be near forgotten by now. The massive sales bump in the books during the season 1 and 2 airings and the release of the films many years ago now has proven positive to the core works. My point of Simon is he has more of a say over his family's works than some random on a internet forum board. Just like I do with my grandmother's Dim Sum recipe.
But there is entirely too many edits just because "Tolkien needs to be told in the modern language" or, even worse, because "I know better than Tolkien"(what hubris and disrespect!). And the quality isn't high enough to offset these problems. Not nearly so.
Yet that, again, is just your opinion. I think the quality is top tier and I am not alone in that. The reality is Simon Tolkien was involved in the storyline the show created and it is his family's work. The featurette 'after the show' for the final episode this season even talks about that.
Mikaela di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (The Great Great Great Great descendant of Michelangelo) gave the OK for some people to get a chisel and slap a loin cloth on David and make his right arm a cyborg one to show the duality of man and machine.
Guess that's OK.
That is not the same thing. The core works are not being altered like in your example. You know that though, you are just being contrary. No one is making you watch it. The books still exist, the series has even spiked their sales dramatically because of this show. Loincloth free.
I mean Rings of Power is based on a last little tid-bid from the Silmarillion. Which is basically just an omnibus of a collection of story drafts/brainstorms of J.R.R. Tolkien working out Middle Earth. The creation, how the races came to be, short various depictions of the First to Third Ages and what transpired. All in a very fragmented way.
It wasn't until much later that Christopher Tolkien tried to write a lot himself and add to it in later releases of the Silmarillion you come to know and after that Children of Hurin.
And still, The Silmarillion itself was a very hard read, because it was just fragments of short stories taking place all over the timeline. There was a reason why J.R.R. Tolkien publisher refused to release the early version back in the day and ultimately led to Tolkien writing the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings books.
So the Rings of Power TV Series has obviously gotten some freedom to deviate from the Silmarillion to create a watchable TV series out of it. Just as Christopher Tolkien has taken artistic liberty himself to add his own to his father's works. Especially with the Children of Hurin book. (which was excellent by the way... much better to read than the Silmarillion).
When it comes to Rings of Power. I both liked and hated Season 1. It was a very conflicted season, with some really cringe and outright bad episodes.
However, Season 2 was much better in my opinion and put the series more in line with the Lore around the actual Rings of Power and how they came to be. Gandalf reveal in the last episode was an artistic liberty taken for sure, just found the name reveal a bit too cringe. But overall.... a much better season and I am actually looking forward to Season 3, unlike how I felt at the end of Season 1.
It's amazing how much you can get wrong in such a short post. I hope you did not spend too much effort on it, because the result would not really justify it. I don't know where to even begin with the first half of your post.
On the positive side, you got the names right and there indeed is 1st and 2nd Age. As for the rest... No, RoP are not based on the Silmarillion, let alone its "last tid-bid" - whatever that is. RoP is based on The Hobbit and LotR appendices. Nothing else. And when I say "based" I mean added in the contract and then pretty much thrown away by two moronic showrunners and their merry band of vandals.
Silmarillion being an "omnibus of a collection of story drafts/brainstorms" is certainly a very original interpretation, well suited for the famed 'modern audience', I guess. The fact that JRRT worked on his legendarium since 1910s and kept adding to it does not make it in the slightest what your lines imply and even though he kept revising it (some stories in a very significant way), he was always developing it as a coherent mythos with its own Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, 'history', a generous dose of Atlantis, bits of Prose and Poetic Edda, and supplemented by a 'modern' (in lore) narrative using a more 'immediate' style (as opposed to cosmological and mythical style) in the form of LotR. JRRT had a pretty good idea what he wanted to create even when he started outlining the first chapters of The Fall of Gondolin back in the trenches of WW1 (in the form of the Book of Lost Tales). To suggest it was merely a collection of bits and pieces written randomly here and there, instead of a lifelong work to create an entire coherent mythos, is simply absurd.
CRRT was putting the whole thing together - he was the editor, not author. He did not write or "add to his father's work", where on earth did you get that from? He always gives his explanations in footnotes and endnotes, provides alternative versions by JRRT, when available - but he does not add to the text. Text itself is always JRRT's. CRRT "taking artistic liberty to add to his father's work" my ass. He did have to laboriously reconstruct a lot of the narrative created by JRRT very early on and which sometimes had important consistency issues, especially with the later work. But that does not mean he was "adding to his father's work". Children of Húrin does not contain any more CRRT's "artistic liberty in adding to his father's work" than any other of the work compiled, edited and released by CRRT after JRRT's death.
About the publisher's refusal to release JRRT's legendarium: it actually led to the creation of LotR - not the Hobbit. It was because of Hobbit's success that Allen and Unwin asked JRRT to write "Hobbit 2" (which ended up as the LotR).
Personally, I have always been surprised and puzzled by people disliking the Silmarillion and considering it too difficult or unapproachable. To me it is the best of JRRT's work, followed by Narn, Gondolin and then LotR.
Personally, I have always been surprised and puzzled by people disliking the Silmarillion and considering it too difficult or unapproachable. To me it is the best of JRRT's work, followed by Narn, Gondolin and then LotR.
I thought the Silmarillion was dry as dust. Beautiful writing but I had to start keeping charts for my the names and I eventually thought life was too short.
After a while it felt like reading the bible and was just a slog.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
But there is entirely too many edits just because "Tolkien needs to be told in the modern language" or, even worse, because "I know better than Tolkien"(what hubris and disrespect!). And the quality isn't high enough to offset these problems. Not nearly so.
Yet that, again, is just your opinion. I think the quality is top tier and I am not alone in that. The reality is Simon Tolkien was involved in the storyline the show created and it is his family's work. The featurette 'after the show' for the final episode this season even talks about that.
Mikaela di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni (The Great Great Great Great descendant of Michelangelo) gave the OK for some people to get a chisel and slap a loin cloth on David and make his right arm a cyborg one to show the duality of man and machine.
Guess that's OK.
That is not the same thing. The core works are not being altered like in your example. You know that though, you are just being contrary. No one is making you watch it. The books still exist, the series has even spiked their sales dramatically because of this show. Loincloth free.
I explained this comment. But you know that though.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I mean Rings of Power is based on a last little tid-bid from the Silmarillion. Which is basically just an omnibus of a collection of story drafts/brainstorms of J.R.R. Tolkien working out Middle Earth. The creation, how the races came to be, short various depictions of the First to Third Ages and what transpired. All in a very fragmented way.
It wasn't until much later that Christopher Tolkien tried to write a lot himself and add to it in later releases of the Silmarillion you come to know and after that Children of Hurin.
And still, The Silmarillion itself was a very hard read, because it was just fragments of short stories taking place all over the timeline. There was a reason why J.R.R. Tolkien publisher refused to release the early version back in the day and ultimately led to Tolkien writing the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings books.
So the Rings of Power TV Series has obviously gotten some freedom to deviate from the Silmarillion to create a watchable TV series out of it. Just as Christopher Tolkien has taken artistic liberty himself to add his own to his father's works. Especially with the Children of Hurin book. (which was excellent by the way... much better to read than the Silmarillion).
When it comes to Rings of Power. I both liked and hated Season 1. It was a very conflicted season, with some really cringe and outright bad episodes.
However, Season 2 was much better in my opinion and put the series more in line with the Lore around the actual Rings of Power and how they came to be. Gandalf reveal in the last episode was an artistic liberty taken for sure, just found the name reveal a bit too cringe. But overall.... a much better season and I am actually looking forward to Season 3, unlike how I felt at the end of Season 1.
It isn't a bit cringe. He has his real name, he is an angelic, powerful being(just acting out like a fool) and he is in the wrong place and time. It is a big, big deviation from LoTR. It would be like if Sauron shapeshifted into, what's his name, Harold(whatever) and shagged Galadriel(or if Elrond did that). It's a big, big deviation.
Then again, I don't consider this LoTR. Well, maybe LoTR for the masses, sure(even then, rather watch the movies or read the books ; don't watch this slop). But no self respecting Tolkien fan is gonna lower itself to this level.
But there is entirely too many edits just because "Tolkien needs to be told in the modern language" or, even worse, because "I know better than Tolkien"(what hubris and disrespect!). And the quality isn't high enough to offset these problems. Not nearly so.
Yet that, again, is just your opinion. I think the quality is top tier and I am not alone in that. The reality is Simon Tolkien was involved in the storyline the show created and it is his family's work. The featurette 'after the show' for the final episode this season even talks about that. It isn't just the writers thinking 'we know better' it is how can we flesh this storyline out that was not written and stay true 'enough' to the overarching story that millions already know from the books. It uses appendices, compressed timelines, the input of Simon and added new characters to move the narrative forward. "Where the core of the original lies" as Tolkien said. As has been reported, the sales of the books are up since the show premiered, both in the first season and the second. The third week of the second season 'Fellowship' spiked to number one on Amazon bestsellers list. Same thing happened in season one. The danger of an unfaithful adaptation is that it discounts and devalues a writer's work. Rings of Power isn't doing this, because it has dramatically boosted sales of the books. Basing art off of art is a way to inspire more people to explore the original artistic core. That is exactly what it is doing.
The reason his works continue to sell as well as they do over all these years is because the works are being interpreted into different mediums. From radio dramas, to animation, the video games, to films to television shows and beyond. They live on because they are kept fresh and relevant by new works based where the core of the original lie.
That is a very, very American thing to say.
As for Simon, who is he? I mean, did he even talk or remember his grandpa? How do we know that this marring isn't intended and that Simon don't care about LoTR or his family's legacy(=black sheep)?
I'm not American so I am not sure what that means. I assume you are referring to sales reference. That is mentioned because if they are selling well because of the show ( which they provenly are) than that means more people are introduced to the core works which is what you want them to be exposed to correct? Your stance is: "This show is not the real representation of Tolkien's works these books are" True enough, and the exposure that media like this brings to the source material is a positive for purists.
I like how all that post encompassed, and you pull out and focus on the one point you can rebuttal. With a weird black sheep grandson reference. So what? Tolkien's own literary circle had mixed feelings about his works. It is not a masterpiece to many. Even in his own circle. (look it up) Just a mainstream commercial work. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. Yet they are not religious tomes. Many people feel they are good for the fantasy genre but not for literature overall. Tolkien himself opened up his books to commercialism during his lifetime. You know why? He needed money. This bastion of literary integrity did the thing that posters here argue is ruining the core works. He sold out. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous. Let it go. They are 'fantasy' books written forever ago. Without the movies and games and show the books would be near forgotten by now. The massive sales bump in the books during the season 1 and 2 airings and the release of the films many years ago now has proven positive to the core works. My point of Simon is he has more of a say over his family's works than some random on a internet forum board. Just like I do with my grandmother's Dim Sum recipe.
No, I will not relent. Nothing about this show is good. Not the writing, not the LoTR part, not armor + weapons, hell even the green screen is amateur at best. You tell me. What is so good about RoP you can't get elsewhere?
Also, Amazon did this same thing to the Foundation. And Wheel of Time too. Producing random schlock off the back of legends is their MO by this point. I just wonder ... what / who is their next victim?
(when did I become such a conservative lol? I am very libertarian otherwise ; unless it's things I care about, apparently allegedly in my opinion)
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
I just wanted to say that Terazon has nearly been a one man band here so I don't want him to think we are all ganging up on him. He is a good poster and sometimes I even agree with him.
I just wanted to say that Terazon has nearly been a one man band here so I don't want him to think we are all ganging up on him. He is a good poster and sometimes I even agree with him.
We had a nice mob brewing here - what am I supposed to do with this torch?
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
But the alternative is becoming forgotten and nothing happens. I think this is where I differ from many. I have seen this happen. Some of the best books, tv series, movies, games, etc... have just vanished into nothingness because the fans were not there and the support was not there. Sure LOTR would live on as the books and that would never change but I enjoy new content. I enjoy interpretations and adaptations. Just because RoP was released will not take any enjoyment from the LOTR books. Just because Star Wars got episodes 7-9, it does not change the fact that Return of the Jedi shaped me and changed me as a kid. It developed a love of Star Wars and sci-fi. As a matter of fact, episode 7 gave me a chance to take my oldest to his first movie ever whereas Empire was mine. Nothing will change that.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
But the alternative is becoming forgotten and nothing happens. I think this is where I differ from many. I have seen this happen. Some of the best books, tv series, movies, games, etc... have just vanished into nothingness because the fans were not there and the support was not there. Sure LOTR would live on as the books and that would never change but I enjoy new content. I enjoy interpretations and adaptations. Just because RoP was released will not take any enjoyment from the LOTR books. Just because Star Wars got episodes 7-9, it does not change the fact that Return of the Jedi shaped me and changed me as a kid. It developed a love of Star Wars and sci-fi. As a matter of fact, episode 7 gave me a chance to take my oldest to his first movie ever whereas Empire was mine. Nothing will change that.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
I am not against adaptations, I am not sure anyone on here has said they are? But they have to be done well and not start from an "anything goes" position.
The Lotro films were great, they took some liberties but minor ones, the Hobbit films had a lot more and crossed my threshold for adaptation license but to boot they were not that good. RoP though has gone much further than the Hobbit and seems likely even worse as entertainment.
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
But the alternative is becoming forgotten and nothing happens. I think this is where I differ from many. I have seen this happen. Some of the best books, tv series, movies, games, etc... have just vanished into nothingness because the fans were not there and the support was not there. Sure LOTR would live on as the books and that would never change but I enjoy new content. I enjoy interpretations and adaptations. Just because RoP was released will not take any enjoyment from the LOTR books. Just because Star Wars got episodes 7-9, it does not change the fact that Return of the Jedi shaped me and changed me as a kid. It developed a love of Star Wars and sci-fi. As a matter of fact, episode 7 gave me a chance to take my oldest to his first movie ever whereas Empire was mine. Nothing will change that.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
I am not against adaptations, I am not sure anyone on here has said they are? But they have to be done well and not start from an "anything goes" position.
The Lotro films were great, they took some liberties but minor ones, the Hobbit films had a lot more and crossed my threshold for adaptation license but to boot they were not that good. RoP though has gone much further than the Hobbit and seems likely even worse as entertainment.
But there are people who think the Lord of the Rings movies are trash. So why does your opinion trump their opinions? Because it’s yours and the things that bothered others didn’t bother you.
Same goes with this show. And believe me, their are people who will never read the lord of the rings books but who might like the show.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
But the alternative is becoming forgotten and nothing happens. I think this is where I differ from many. I have seen this happen. Some of the best books, tv series, movies, games, etc... have just vanished into nothingness because the fans were not there and the support was not there. Sure LOTR would live on as the books and that would never change but I enjoy new content. I enjoy interpretations and adaptations. Just because RoP was released will not take any enjoyment from the LOTR books. Just because Star Wars got episodes 7-9, it does not change the fact that Return of the Jedi shaped me and changed me as a kid. It developed a love of Star Wars and sci-fi. As a matter of fact, episode 7 gave me a chance to take my oldest to his first movie ever whereas Empire was mine. Nothing will change that.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
I am not against adaptations, I am not sure anyone on here has said they are? But they have to be done well and not start from an "anything goes" position.
The Lotro films were great, they took some liberties but minor ones, the Hobbit films had a lot more and crossed my threshold for adaptation license but to boot they were not that good. RoP though has gone much further than the Hobbit and seems likely even worse as entertainment.
But there are people who think the Lord of the Rings movies are trash. So why does your opinion trump their opinions? Because it’s yours and the things that bothered others didn’t bother you.
Same goes with this show. And believe me, their are people who will never read the lord of the rings books but who might like the show.
I think the changes with the LOTR movies were mostly driven by the format change. I think most are understandable.
The Hobbit meanwhile... totally different story. They made a trilogy out of a fairly small book. Honestly I watched the first one and then I have only seen bits and pieces of the last 2. It has many similarities to ROP in my view.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There may be some fear that this adaptation will do violence to the originals. See 'The Acolyte' and how it deteriorated the Star Wars franchise.
Some people don't care to see classics destroyed by modern progressive idealogues.
I don't know the extent to which that is happening in either the Ring or Star Wars. This is just based off what I've heard - I won't be investigating.
That's where some of the fear originates, I think.
There is a very real effect that adaptations or indeed subsequent works have on their originals, the brand is lessened. Just look at what happens when a poor game release of a great franchise happens, do we think of that the franchise is as good as it was? Of course not.
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
But the alternative is becoming forgotten and nothing happens. I think this is where I differ from many. I have seen this happen. Some of the best books, tv series, movies, games, etc... have just vanished into nothingness because the fans were not there and the support was not there. Sure LOTR would live on as the books and that would never change but I enjoy new content. I enjoy interpretations and adaptations. Just because RoP was released will not take any enjoyment from the LOTR books. Just because Star Wars got episodes 7-9, it does not change the fact that Return of the Jedi shaped me and changed me as a kid. It developed a love of Star Wars and sci-fi. As a matter of fact, episode 7 gave me a chance to take my oldest to his first movie ever whereas Empire was mine. Nothing will change that.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
I am not against adaptations, I am not sure anyone on here has said they are? But they have to be done well and not start from an "anything goes" position.
The Lotro films were great, they took some liberties but minor ones, the Hobbit films had a lot more and crossed my threshold for adaptation license but to boot they were not that good. RoP though has gone much further than the Hobbit and seems likely even worse as entertainment.
I think the LOTR films were great and parts of The Hobbit movies were great as well. Both have parts I wish to forget. But both have parts that stick with me and will forever. The violins in the Rohan music. The battle on the cliff in the first Hobbit movie. Gandalf coming over the hill at helm's Deep. The Rohan riders in the final battle. Moments that were incredible.
But I give them liberties because they had to take them. Same with Rings of Power. They are trying to condense thousands of years of story into a time period that is much shorter and they have to because of narrative. How will they handle Numenor and what happens to it? Developing relationships that have to be made due to a condensed timeline. I get it. The show is not perfect and they took some liberties I question but some I can understand. To me, its like any other adaptation - some great, some good, some bad, some questionable but overall I really do enjoy it.
I think the LOTR films were great and parts of The Hobbit movies were great as well. Both have parts I wish to forget. But both have parts that stick with me and will forever. The violins in the Rohan music. The battle on the cliff in the first Hobbit movie. Gandalf coming over the hill at helm's Deep. The Rohan riders in the final battle. Moments that were incredible.
But I give them liberties because they had to take them. Same with Rings of Power. They are trying to condense thousands of years of story into a time period that is much shorter and they have to because of narrative. How will they handle Numenor and what happens to it? Developing relationships that have to be made due to a condensed timeline. I get it. The show is not perfect and they took some liberties I question but some I can understand. To me, its like any other adaptation - some great, some good, some bad, some questionable but overall I really do enjoy it.
I thought there were some great parts in the Hobbit especially the first film, but there comes a point where I was rolling my eyes once too many. After that it became absurd, but not only that they broke the golden rule: "If you think you have the right to make a big change to a respected work, you had better do it well."
But there are people who think the Lord of the Rings movies are trash. So why does your opinion trump their opinions? Because it’s yours and the things that bothered others didn’t bother you.
Same goes with this show. And believe me, their are people who will never read the lord of the rings books but who might like the show.
If I take your reasoning to its conclusion because someone out there will like any show I should give every show a pass. I do recognise that some viewers will like it of course, but I can't give it a pass. We are entitled to form our own opinions about everything and I don't expect everyone to adhere to mine.
It is quite reasonable to try to come to a consensus, but a consensus does not mean we all hold the same opinion, it just means we allow for the fact that the majority may or may not be with us. Here I think because of the viewing figures the majority may be with us, but I am by no means certain of that.
But I give them liberties because they had to take them. Same with Rings of Power. They are trying to condense thousands of years of story into a time period that is much shorter and they have to because of narrative. How will they handle Numenor and what happens to it? Developing relationships that have to be made due to a condensed timeline. I get it. The show is not perfect and they took some liberties I question but some I can understand. To me, its like any other adaptation - some great, some good, some bad, some questionable but overall I really do enjoy it.
I think that kind of change is the kind that most understand. But lets be honest... many of the changes go far beyond changes they HAD to make.
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I would just like to say that we have kept level heads and not gone of the rails like some of the bananas conversations I have seen about RoP elsewhere.
Having said that a staffer will now step in and say we have not, the last two times in a thread I said we were doing well, a staffer posted or PM'd me to say we had gone too far.
I would just like to say that we have kept level heads and not gone of the rails like some of the bananas conversations I have seen about RoP elsewhere.
Having said that a staffer will now step in and say we have not, the last two times in a thread I said we were doing well, a staffer posted or PM'd me to say we had gone too far.
Don't worry. @lotrlore is about to post his follow up article which will help us reargue the same points!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would just like to say that we have kept level heads and not gone of the rails like some of the bananas conversations I have seen about RoP elsewhere.
Having said that a staffer will now step in and say we have not, the last two times in a thread I said we were doing well, a staffer posted or PM'd me to say we had gone too far.
Hey, nobody PMd me anything! Perhaps a PM is in order. To tell me I should be less conservative about this.
Comments
"Listen, I've got to fight the ET! That's what that guy Elrond's all about! I know, I've studied him already!!"
This is an actual documentary of how shows like the RoP are made - including the legal bits:
Season 2 changed the focus, and it was better for it.
Seeing the city of Eregion destroyed was epic fantasy. Loved it.
As a fantasy fan I was enthralled and excited to watch season 2 more and more each episode.
Looking forward to Season 3 very much.
I assume you are referring to sales reference.
That is mentioned because if they are selling well because of the show ( which they provenly are) than that means more people are introduced to the core works which is what you want them to be exposed to correct?
Your stance is:
"This show is not the real representation of Tolkien's works these books are"
True enough, and the exposure that media like this brings to the source material is a positive for purists.
I like how all that post encompassed, and you pull out and focus on the one point you can rebuttal. With a weird black sheep grandson reference.
So what?
Tolkien's own literary circle had mixed feelings about his works.
It is not a masterpiece to many. Even in his own circle. (look it up)
Just a mainstream commercial work. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. Yet they are not religious tomes.
Many people feel they are good for the fantasy genre but not for literature overall.
Tolkien himself opened up his books to commercialism during his lifetime.
You know why? He needed money.
This bastion of literary integrity did the thing that posters here argue is ruining the core works.
He sold out.
Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.
Let it go.
They are 'fantasy' books written forever ago.
Without the movies and games and show the books would be near forgotten by now.
The massive sales bump in the books during the season 1 and 2 airings and the release of the films many years ago now has proven positive to the core works.
My point of Simon is he has more of a say over his family's works than some random on a internet forum board.
Just like I do with my grandmother's Dim Sum recipe.
The core works are not being altered like in your example.
You know that though, you are just being contrary.
No one is making you watch it.
The books still exist, the series has even spiked their sales dramatically because of this show.
Loincloth free.
Was 11 and my father took me to see it when it came out in theaters.
We both fell asleep, that’s how dull we thought it was.
Where’s the outrage over that!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
On the positive side, you got the names right and there indeed is 1st and 2nd Age. As for the rest... No, RoP are not based on the Silmarillion, let alone its "last tid-bid" - whatever that is. RoP is based on The Hobbit and LotR appendices. Nothing else. And when I say "based" I mean added in the contract and then pretty much thrown away by two moronic showrunners and their merry band of vandals.
Silmarillion being an "omnibus of a collection of story drafts/brainstorms" is certainly a very original interpretation, well suited for the famed 'modern audience', I guess. The fact that JRRT worked on his legendarium since 1910s and kept adding to it does not make it in the slightest what your lines imply and even though he kept revising it (some stories in a very significant way), he was always developing it as a coherent mythos with its own Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, 'history', a generous dose of Atlantis, bits of Prose and Poetic Edda, and supplemented by a 'modern' (in lore) narrative using a more 'immediate' style (as opposed to cosmological and mythical style) in the form of LotR. JRRT had a pretty good idea what he wanted to create even when he started outlining the first chapters of The Fall of Gondolin back in the trenches of WW1 (in the form of the Book of Lost Tales). To suggest it was merely a collection of bits and pieces written randomly here and there, instead of a lifelong work to create an entire coherent mythos, is simply absurd.
CRRT was putting the whole thing together - he was the editor, not author. He did not write or "add to his father's work", where on earth did you get that from? He always gives his explanations in footnotes and endnotes, provides alternative versions by JRRT, when available - but he does not add to the text. Text itself is always JRRT's. CRRT "taking artistic liberty to add to his father's work" my ass. He did have to laboriously reconstruct a lot of the narrative created by JRRT very early on and which sometimes had important consistency issues, especially with the later work. But that does not mean he was "adding to his father's work". Children of Húrin does not contain any more CRRT's "artistic liberty in adding to his father's work" than any other of the work compiled, edited and released by CRRT after JRRT's death.
About the publisher's refusal to release JRRT's legendarium: it actually led to the creation of LotR - not the Hobbit. It was because of Hobbit's success that Allen and Unwin asked JRRT to write "Hobbit 2" (which ended up as the LotR).
Personally, I have always been surprised and puzzled by people disliking the Silmarillion and considering it too difficult or unapproachable. To me it is the best of JRRT's work, followed by Narn, Gondolin and then LotR.
After a while it felt like reading the bible and was just a slog.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Then again, I don't consider this LoTR. Well, maybe LoTR for the masses, sure(even then, rather watch the movies or read the books ; don't watch this slop). But no self respecting Tolkien fan is gonna lower itself to this level.
Also, Amazon did this same thing to the Foundation. And Wheel of Time too. Producing random schlock off the back of legends is their MO by this point. I just wonder ... what / who is their next victim?
(when did I become such a conservative lol? I am very libertarian otherwise ; unless it's things I care about, apparently allegedly in my opinion)
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Look at the WoW film, does anyone think that did the brand any favours, likewise with RoP.
That way, long after this series is forgotten, my great grand kids can read the real thing.
People that say they do not want adaptations (or as some in this thread have said about RoP itself) are the same ones that 2-3 years from now would be saying they wished for new content or wondering why new content has not been released.
And here is the best part - the creators and the developers are more than happy to have people argue and disagree and get passionate about it, good or bad. because you are talking about it, people are writing articles about it, and people are posting about it. Someone is going to read this thread and go watch RoP because they want to see for themselves. They may love it or hate it, but its still word of mouth marketing and it works wonders.
The Lotro films were great, they took some liberties but minor ones, the Hobbit films had a lot more and crossed my threshold for adaptation license but to boot they were not that good. RoP though has gone much further than the Hobbit and seems likely even worse as entertainment.
Same goes with this show. And believe me, their are people who will never read the lord of the rings books but who might like the show.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The Hobbit meanwhile... totally different story. They made a trilogy out of a fairly small book. Honestly I watched the first one and then I have only seen bits and pieces of the last 2. It has many similarities to ROP in my view.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But I give them liberties because they had to take them. Same with Rings of Power. They are trying to condense thousands of years of story into a time period that is much shorter and they have to because of narrative. How will they handle Numenor and what happens to it? Developing relationships that have to be made due to a condensed timeline. I get it. The show is not perfect and they took some liberties I question but some I can understand. To me, its like any other adaptation - some great, some good, some bad, some questionable but overall I really do enjoy it.
If I take your reasoning to its conclusion because someone out there will like any show I should give every show a pass. I do recognise that some viewers will like it of course, but I can't give it a pass. We are entitled to form our own opinions about everything and I don't expect everyone to adhere to mine.
It is quite reasonable to try to come to a consensus, but a consensus does not mean we all hold the same opinion, it just means we allow for the fact that the majority may or may not be with us. Here I think because of the viewing figures the majority may be with us, but I am by no means certain of that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Having said that a staffer will now step in and say we have not, the last two times in a thread I said we were doing well, a staffer posted or PM'd me to say we had gone too far.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018