MOABs wrecked MMOs. Everyone wanted action combat. Dodge became the thing you click more then skills. Also companies seen how much micro dings and F2P could make them. Been cookie cutter MMOs ever since. MMOers became a wallet not a customer. Fix that and all that will change. Also make MMOs that target types of players, not to just get the most numbers.
Creativity is dead. Back 1st gen games gave devs actually had to teach themselves they experimented they had creativity often they found cool things by accident. Now all coders are the fry guys at McDonalds they are all trained to use a tool set a specific engine to do things exactly the same way often times just copy and pasting code.
Now games are big business with the studios run by people who are not gamers and only care about the money not the art.
Everyone copied wow which has been going the wrong direction since vanilla.
People have never understood Wow's success was NOT in the game. It was in the media blitzkrieg.
Blizzard advertised everywhere. WOW was on ever TV sitcom, on every talk show, every late night show. They were doing TV ads in the middle of the day during soap operas. They had a center 2 page advertisement in the center of Cosmo magazine.
Blizzard spent as much on advertising as they did on game development.
They converted 100 million stay at home housewives that watched soaps all day into gamers.
Blizzard made the girl gamer. Nobody else has ever had the success because nobody else had a media PR department like Blizzard.
Everyone copied wow which has been going the wrong direction since vanilla.
People have never understood Wow's success was NOT in the game. It was in the media blitzkrieg.
Blizzard advertised everywhere. WOW was on ever TV sitcom, on every talk show, every late night show. They were doing TV ads in the middle of the day during soap operas. They had a center 2 page advertisement in the center of Cosmo magazine.
Blizzard spent as much on advertising as they did on game development.
They converted 100 million stay at home housewives that watched soaps all day into gamers.
Blizzard made the girl gamer. Nobody else has ever had the success because nobody else had a media PR department like Blizzard.
Just say you don't like WoW and leave it at that. What you said is so hilariously wrong that it's just ludicrous. WoW was a wild success because it deserved the success, in comparison to everything else that was out at the time, it was the superior product. Hands down. Your tastes might not have matched up with the gameplay, but to say that advertising was the only reason WoW was, is, and continues to be successful is so off that it barely warrants a response.
WoW won and continues to be the winner because when it was first made, it had: The power of a franchise that had already resonated with gamers for at least a decade, a well known studio with hit after hit, a history of iterating the best of whatever already existed in the game space and doing it better. Besides that though, the staff, management, and having a hands-off publisher at the time that gave them the leeway and time to make the game exactly how they wanted, created lightning in a bottle. A success that's never going to be matched.
People moved to other genres and not enough young people adopted MMOs
The novelty wore off
Too many dailies/weeklies and such made them feel like a job
Scheduling time to do content gets old
Lockouts to do content gets old as well
Toxicity to new or underperforming players
Practically zero innovation and too many copycat theme park MMO's splitting up the populations
Mandatory subscriptions? Not sure on this one
Many people just want to jump into games and play a while when they get the time. MMOs really don't cater to those people at all.
I'm waiting for AI to bring in the next generation of MMO's. With truly dynamic worlds where territories change control and aren't scripted. Human like NPCs going about their lives.
Oh I forgot to mention the one sentence I did think was off: "There’s no going back to the glory days of the MMO"
I agreed that the genre as a whole can't do that, but what about classic? I favour a hybrid approach between the playstyles but there are players out there who have gone back and love it.
I think it's way simpler than that. I think it's that the OG crowd who were willing to dedicate themselves to a game and a guild for months or even years of their lives largely aged out of MMOs because they got careers, families, and responsibilities that don't allow for investing a part time job's worth of time into a video game. The next generation of highschool kids and college age young adults that should have stepped into the gap to take up the MMO torch grew up on Instagram and TikTok and are conditioned to getting their dopamine hit every 30 seconds and MMOs just aren't built to deliver that. That's why they like Fortnite and extraction shooters, MOBAs, and POE. They can get in, get their fix, get out and get on to the next thing, or even get round 2 in their game.
The idea of standing around for an hour or more just trying to form your raid so you can begin the raid that's going to take another 3-5 hours to complete just doesn't work for very many people anymore. People have lives and responsibilities or they just don't give enough of a shit to put up with that anymore when they can log into Helldivers or something and be playing in under a minute.
I have to disagree with your assessment about the next generation. Yes, it's true what you said but I don't believe it's the dopamine hit issue you claim it is. I believe it's your final paragraph. The demand for our time is higher now than ever before, and comes from a much wider pool. The younger generation doesn't want to stand around for an hour not because they need constant dopamine hits, but because it's just not very fun and it never really was. It's also not accessible.
Everything has battle passes and dailies/weeklies to do now. People can and are still willing to invest a part time job's worth of time into video games, but often split that time between different games all asking them to devote their time only to one game. And that doesn't work anymore.
No, that's not why the MMO genre is dying. Actually is not dying at all. We had Lost Ark release with over 900 thousand players concurrent users (!!!) and now Throne and Liberty with over 300 thousand. That's insane.
If anything, is because the dev haven't yet found a way to actually "break free" from the traditional mmo and actually to come up with a better version for today's .. needs.
Yes! Gamers have evolved. Including me and many more others. If I watch a stream on twitch, doesn't mean I am not playing the said game. For the most part I play all the games I watch on twitch.
For the most part I played Throne and Liberty, actually it felt so much more a MMO than other releases that talking in Dungeons or asking questions while fishing and such was something old .. but new and fresh.
Internet brings people together, not "parting" them, including in games.
So yea! I think you are a very nostalgic player which refuses to adapt ( to each his own ) and now he throws his frustration to the internet..the same internet why you have a job.
Bad "article".
Lost Ark released with over 900000 players. Two years later, it has how many? 90K was the peak this year, with an average hovering around 30K. If WoW had those type of numbers in 2007, we would never have seen WoW killers in 2008.
I'm not frustrated by the type of MMOs we have today. I am currently playing Throne and Liberty and enjoying it very much. That said, I think it is inferior to other solo and online genres, and I doubt I will still be playing it in 2025.
As for the comment about "is because the dev haven't yet found a way to actually "break free" from the traditional mmo and actually to come up with a better version for today's .. needs", that is pretty much a more winded version of my last line, "and unless a new MMO comes out that can take advantage of what the internet has become, the MMO genre will die."
So, thanks for agreeing with my bad article.
That last line is childish. That aside, they weren't agreeing. You said the genre will die if it doesn't change, and your article is about how it's already dying. If anything, their comment was about it stagnating.
I have to disagree with your assessment about the next generation. Yes, it's true what you said but I don't believe it's the dopamine hit issue you claim it is. I believe it's your final paragraph. The demand for our time is higher now than ever before, and comes from a much wider pool. The younger generation doesn't want to stand around for an hour not because they need constant dopamine hits, but because it's just not very fun and it never really was. It's also not accessible.
Everything has battle passes and dailies/weeklies to do now. People can and are still willing to invest a part time job's worth of time into video games, but often split that time between different games all asking them to devote their time only to one game. And that doesn't work anymore.
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
The MMORPG genre isn't dying any more this time than the last time it was contended. Even the end of the world is predicted less often than this and people go on about that with regularity.
1: Non-instanced housing that deteriorate and collapse causing pop up PvP encounters that are so valuable people would spend hours searching the server for these houses.
2: Explosion potions you can throw.
3: The ability to create, and place in a dungeon, your very own trapped chest that can blow up other players.
4: The ability to drop items on the ground that other players can see.
5: Mounts that don't leave the world when you dismount, can carry items, and need to be stabled.
6: A house where you can open a shop and place your own vendors.
7: Rune libraries that serve as transportation hubs.
One time in UO I built fancy wooden chests, put fruit and wine in them, and a little piece of jewelry and sold those chests to other players as sweetheart gifts to give to friends.
The current crop of choregraphed dance offs known as "raids" are all pure crap.
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
I apologize for my ignorance. I was not aware of those sites back in 1999. I had to use guilds and learn from groups until at least the 2008-09 period.
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
I apologize for my ignorance. I was not aware of those sites back in 1999. I had to use guilds and learn from groups until at least the 2008-09 period.
My guess your guildies got that info from the web and you just got that info second hand.
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
This is bullshit... The first MMO I played was Asherons Call back in 1999. Even back than there were many fan web sites that had all the info about game items, locations, spell components and any other info you would need without having to be in a guild
I apologize for my ignorance. I was not aware of those sites back in 1999. I had to use guilds and learn from groups until at least the 2008-09 period.
My guess your guildies got that info from the web and you just got that info second hand.
You are making me cast my mind back now, I can't remember how long I was in a MMO before I realised you could check stuff out. The first thing I found though I do remember...maps.
Also I can remember the guild debating on the forum how much such sites should be used. In particular "if you have an arrow leading to the next quest why do we need to bother with the sites?". But then of course we hit raids and guilders were going to You Tube to work out what to do, never mind written guides.
I joined MMORPG.com back in August 2004 (over 20 years!!!!) specifically to find information about SWG. Builds, content walkthroughs, easter eggs etc.
I don't think I'd used any other sites before then, I did get most of my information from guildies. But, guildies are only available to talk to when ur in game, and i wanted to be able to do research outside of the game too.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I know this is an "opinion" piece, but opinions AREN'T opinions when they're just plain WRONG. Maybe do a little research before you write something that isn't based in reality. The genre is in no way dead, including several games which have now been live and continue to be stable as we speak.
This is akin to "opinions" that immigrants eat dogs. Or "opinions" that the US economy is the worst its ever been. Neither of those is remotely true, and neither is your "opinion". I don't normally like to be so blunt and negative, but frankly the lack of knowledge and professionalism here is repulsive.
If you're going to create journalistic pieces, you need to follow standard journalistic practices (unless you want to to work for Fox "News"). Don't create articles that are basically just lies to get attention. And I'm not saying this as an outsider. I wrote specifically in MMO journalism for 5 years.
I know this is an "opinion" piece, but opinions AREN'T opinions when they're just plain WRONG. Maybe do a little research before you write something that isn't based in reality. The genre is in no way dead, including several games which have now been live and continue to be stable as we speak.
This is akin to "opinions" that immigrants eat dogs. Or "opinions" that the US economy is the worst its ever been. Neither of those is remotely true, and neither is your "opinion". I don't normally like to be so blunt and negative, but frankly the lack of knowledge and professionalism here is repulsive.
If you're going to create journalistic pieces, you need to follow standard journalistic practices (unless you want to to work for Fox "News"). Don't create articles that are basically just lies to get attention. And I'm not saying this as an outsider. I wrote specifically in MMO journalism for 5 years.
I'm amazed this even got past the editors.
So... let's just say I personally think your opinion is wrong.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't believe you. I think that you, like me, come here specifically because you know that this is the kind of "work" that gets done around here and we all love being witnesses to one of the many hilariously frustrating and demoralizing failures of HUMANITY.
I remember UO stratics. That site goes back to at least 1997. That was a very popular site back then for that game. There is no way the major guilds didnt have people combing those sites for the latest info.
Yeah this idea that it was only guild's to get this info is incorrect. I think that guilds was a very small part of the infosharing. Forums, Websites, ICQ, MIRC, Aol messenger, Person to Person was way way more.
There are a lot of correct points here, but here’s my take:
I started playing MUDs in the 80s and 90s, and I don’t believe MMOs—whether RPGs or otherwise—are dead or dying. However, oversaturation is real. Movies, games, deals, wars—everything starts to feel repetitive.
Younger players need to rediscover the wonder of MMOs, but I don’t think they’re playing with the same passion we saw in the late 90s through the 2010s. It’s not a death—it’s a pause. MMOs are evolving, and while the impact that games like WoW had might not be immediate, there are dreamers out there who will surprise us.
Additionally, today’s world events are pulling people’s attention away, affecting the developers who create these games. Some of those players we once played with might now be on different sides of the real-world conflicts we see. The population's focus has shifted, but it’s temporary.
Comments
Now games are big business with the studios run by people who are not gamers and only care about the money not the art.
People have never understood Wow's success was NOT in the game. It was in the media blitzkrieg.
Blizzard advertised everywhere. WOW was on ever TV sitcom, on every talk show, every late night show. They were doing TV ads in the middle of the day during soap operas. They had a center 2 page advertisement in the center of Cosmo magazine.
Blizzard spent as much on advertising as they did on game development.
They converted 100 million stay at home housewives that watched soaps all day into gamers.
Blizzard made the girl gamer. Nobody else has ever had the success because nobody else had a media PR department like Blizzard.
WoW won and continues to be the winner because when it was first made, it had: The power of a franchise that had already resonated with gamers for at least a decade, a well known studio with hit after hit, a history of iterating the best of whatever already existed in the game space and doing it better. Besides that though, the staff, management, and having a hands-off publisher at the time that gave them the leeway and time to make the game exactly how they wanted, created lightning in a bottle. A success that's never going to be matched.
When you look at top games of the past where are the equivalents that are BETTER than before.
Wow - No equal to what it does.
DAOC - What matches this game today? Warhammer was garbage compared. Nobody will make a better game today.
EQ - What game like this even comes close? Pantheon? Embers Adrift? Give me a break these games are garbage compared.
UO - No comparable sandbox today.
Once a dev team makes a better game, in any of those subgenre's, then it will make a billion dollars + and the genre will revitalize.
Another option is to combine these subgenres or event new ones and make a better game. However it needs to be better, not worse than 20 years ago.
- People moved to other genres and not enough young people adopted MMOs
- The novelty wore off
- Too many dailies/weeklies and such made them feel like a job
- Scheduling time to do content gets old
- Lockouts to do content gets old as well
- Toxicity to new or underperforming players
- Practically zero innovation and too many copycat theme park MMO's splitting up the populations
- Mandatory subscriptions? Not sure on this one
Many people just want to jump into games and play a while when they get the time. MMOs really don't cater to those people at all.I'm waiting for AI to bring in the next generation of MMO's. With truly dynamic worlds where territories change control and aren't scripted. Human like NPCs going about their lives.
I agreed that the genre as a whole can't do that, but what about classic? I favour a hybrid approach between the playstyles but there are players out there who have gone back and love it.
I have to disagree with your assessment about the next generation. Yes, it's true what you said but I don't believe it's the dopamine hit issue you claim it is. I believe it's your final paragraph. The demand for our time is higher now than ever before, and comes from a much wider pool. The younger generation doesn't want to stand around for an hour not because they need constant dopamine hits, but because it's just not very fun and it never really was. It's also not accessible.
Everything has battle passes and dailies/weeklies to do now. People can and are still willing to invest a part time job's worth of time into video games, but often split that time between different games all asking them to devote their time only to one game. And that doesn't work anymore.
That last line is childish. That aside, they weren't agreeing. You said the genre will die if it doesn't change, and your article is about how it's already dying. If anything, their comment was about it stagnating.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
1: Non-instanced housing that deteriorate and collapse causing pop up PvP encounters that are so valuable people would spend hours searching the server for these houses.
2: Explosion potions you can throw.
3: The ability to create, and place in a dungeon, your very own trapped chest that can blow up other players.
4: The ability to drop items on the ground that other players can see.
5: Mounts that don't leave the world when you dismount, can carry items, and need to be stabled.
6: A house where you can open a shop and place your own vendors.
7: Rune libraries that serve as transportation hubs.
One time in UO I built fancy wooden chests, put fruit and wine in them, and a little piece of jewelry and sold those chests to other players as sweetheart gifts to give to friends.
The current crop of choregraphed dance offs known as "raids" are all pure crap.
Also I can remember the guild debating on the forum how much such sites should be used. In particular "if you have an arrow leading to the next quest why do we need to bother with the sites?". But then of course we hit raids and guilders were going to You Tube to work out what to do, never mind written guides.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zone.html?zstrat=18
Comments go all the way back to August 2000
This is akin to "opinions" that immigrants eat dogs. Or "opinions" that the US economy is the worst its ever been. Neither of those is remotely true, and neither is your "opinion". I don't normally like to be so blunt and negative, but frankly the lack of knowledge and professionalism here is repulsive.
If you're going to create journalistic pieces, you need to follow standard journalistic practices (unless you want to to work for Fox "News"). Don't create articles that are basically just lies to get attention. And I'm not saying this as an outsider. I wrote specifically in MMO journalism for 5 years.
I'm amazed this even got past the editors.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah this idea that it was only guild's to get this info is incorrect. I think that guilds was a very small part of the infosharing. Forums, Websites, ICQ, MIRC, Aol messenger, Person to Person was way way more.
I started playing MUDs in the 80s and 90s, and I don’t believe MMOs—whether RPGs or otherwise—are dead or dying. However, oversaturation is real. Movies, games, deals, wars—everything starts to feel repetitive.
Younger players need to rediscover the wonder of MMOs, but I don’t think they’re playing with the same passion we saw in the late 90s through the 2010s. It’s not a death—it’s a pause. MMOs are evolving, and while the impact that games like WoW had might not be immediate, there are dreamers out there who will surprise us.
Additionally, today’s world events are pulling people’s attention away, affecting the developers who create these games. Some of those players we once played with might now be on different sides of the real-world conflicts we see. The population's focus has shifted, but it’s temporary.
...I hope.
That’s my humble opinion. Stay safe.