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Sorry but DDO sucks
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First of all, I just played the Beta Preview for about 4 hours. I am also a long time AD&D PnP fan. I am an older gamer (30) and so my comments may be slanted for someone who has a pretty busy life, and doesn't always have a set time or amount of time to play.
1. Battle System: I have to agree with some of the comments already made. It feels like SWG post NGE. Which is really bad IMHO. I just can't get used to it, and it completely takes away what D&D combat is, turn-based statistics and dice rolls, with the opportunity to do some interesting, creative things in the middle of combat.. (using lit oil flask as a DOT bomb anyone?) It also felt really odd (maybe I didn't see it) but it was like fighting blind, I had no idea how many times I had hit the Kobold or Spider before it died, and I had no idea how much damage I ended up doing. It was really weird, and felt nothing like D&D at all.
2. Instancing Only: While I agree that this is much more like PnP D&D concept wise that the typical MMORPG, it brings up some problems as I see it. With a game you are paying $15 dollars for, it is true you should be able to play it whenever you wish.
I think this concept will work for "Younger" D&D PnP fans who have a dedicated group that can get on at the same time and advance together and have lots of time to do long quests with a solid, well-rounded group. However, as a 30 something gamer with 2 kids and a wife, I can say that getting a dedicated group together that has random amounts of time 1-4 hours at random days of the week, getting a group together of people I know that can advance together is going to be impossible. Other MMORPG's don't have quite this problem, because I can log on and if my friends aren't on, I can always do some solo quests, or run around in the woods killing rats or bats or cats or something else that rhymes with at.
I realize I can always group with random people when I have time, but I am sorry, D&D is about close friends playing a game together, and with a game that is much more "JOB" focused, meaning each class has a specific "ROLE" to carry out in a group, the TRUST aspect of the game is going to be very important. I have played GW and I had fun, but at the same time, I didn't have a lot of time or effort invested in it, so when the cleric in my group neglected to heal me and got my warrior killed, it wasn't a big deal I just logged off and got with another mindless, friendless group and hacked and slashed. D&D and the quests themselves are much more dependant on specific rolls that everyone plays and trust and friendship is going to be an issue as I see it.
These problems could be helped with a very robust, solid Guild system and being in a HUGE guild with people who are friendly and know how to play their characters well. But I am not sure if D&D has this kind of guild system.
3. Rule Raping: There are some really cool things in the 3rd edition rule set. But I do agree that Turbine seems to be using the D&D rules that work for them and throwing the other ones out that they can't understand or work with. One thing needs to be said about D&D. The reason D&D is the oldest and best selling PnP ruleset ever is because it has been tried and tested by countless thousands of players over 30 years. I applaud Turbine for having a useful Ranger and Scout class (FINALLY) but it seems they left a lot out and are picking and choosing what rules they want to use. After playing EQ and EQ2 I quickly found that too much customization ruins the idea of having an exceptional (insert specific class here) and ends up feeling watered down because anyone can be anything. This is something that is a personal beef of mine and shouldn't count against Turbine (since it's D&D 3rd edition rules) but I never thought it was a good idea or realistic to allow any race to be any class.
I am sorry for being so wordy, and I am sure this will be great for a lot of people, but I don't think it will work for my play times and because I can't get over the combat system. Graphics are also only okay. EQ2 looks great and even at half quality runs great on my system, WOW has awesome style and runs excellently on my system. This at Medium quality, looks pixelated and bland but runs okay. At High quality it slows to a crawl and in the Taverns (which you can't avoid, since its the best place to get quests) is serious lag central.
Just a quick agreement with the OP, dowloaded the Preview Event after having played the Stress Test a few weeks ago, seeing if maybe a week or 2 away from the game would give me a fresh look.
NOPE! I walked my new character through the first tutorial quests and remembered how bored and UNinnovative the game was. Quickly exited and went about my merry way, glad to NOT be wasting money on this one when it releases.
Problem with your thoughts is that you also have Diablo and Diablo 2 which are hosted on Blizzards servers, they aren't MMO's either and they are free to use and have a good chunk of loyal players to this day.
DDO is a game that I erased shortly after installing it because it felt like playing morrowind, and if I wanted to play morrowind, I'll play morrowind, and that doesn't have zones. Wifes tried playing it and came to same conclusion.
Turbine doesn't have a great tract record for making or upkeeping MMO's and doesn't look like DDO will be any different. AC1 is a cesspool of botting and other activites. Once they announced that they were cancelling AC2 and yet were going to keep charging playing up to the last 20 days of the game with no more patches or upkeep other then a few scenarios (yes those that got into the game on Dec 9th got charges their 12.95 for their *month* of play before the game was canned on Dec 31).
Uh...no they are not. Diablo and D2 games are hosted on the computer of the person who created the game, same as NWN. The only thing hosted on Blizzards servers are the chat browser and the ladder servers. That's why every game has a ping-meter beside it, so you can see what your latency is FROM THE HOST, who created the game. If when that person leaves/crashes/gets booted from the net, there is a pause as the host switches from the original person to the next on the list.
yeah? well i bet youra newbie noob like the one who wanna stand and kill the same monster for 30 min.
i dont pay to grind, learn how to play with the big boys touche!
Always do the right thing
Hear Hear...
DDO is truly a bad game...could not hold my interest (or my wifes)..Bad graphics (everyone keeps expounding on the graphics...uh...yuck@!), lots of lag in taverns (hey wanna meet people...but next thing I know, I am frozen one second, standing on a table like an idiot the next)...
Instances, server crashes...oh so many foibles (does not follow Rulebooks, Levelling horrible, no solo...I can go on and on)
Bye Bye DDO...my dreams are trashed...
Ok, I have been playing since alpha, here are my thoughts.
Pros :
Many of the quests are extremely good, involved, and complicated.
Fairly easy to find a decent group and build a friends list for grouping up when logging on.
I didn't pay any $ to play.
I like the combat mechanics (I use tumble and blocking for melee chars)
Cons (Sadly many many more of these) :
You HAVE to repeat quests, some MANY times to level up later in the game. It was INTENTIONALLY DESIGNED TO REQUIRE QUEST REPETITION!
Almost NOTHING changes when you ramp up the difficulty for a quest (there are 3 options) beyond harder monsters. Gets VERY boring. SAME maps, OVER AND OVER.
As of latest patch Clerics got nerfed (less SP, turn bites now, unless you want to be just a healer, very few options now) and archery got nerfed even more (Not only is it slow and useless compared to melee, requires a 'reload' time for a bow, you now get a -4AC penalty for HOLDING a bow?)
Bugs that were 'fixed' in one patch reappear in the next, many bugs, going on since alpha.
Horrible Dev feedback from the players. HORRIBLE. They just ignore 80% of the questions and feedback presented. They ignore non-negative questions. They just ignore most everything.
The PnP rules are a MINOR part of the game mechanics, from spells not working right, to the CR rating for monsters having NO relation to PnP values and much much more.
Monsters don't follow the same restirictions players do, and don't even follow a consittent set of rules for monsters.
Spell casting has NO relation to PnP spellcasting beyond the names, SOME of the effects, and SOMETIMES the damages (Meta-Magic got butchered, it plays a part) The SP system MIGHT work if it didn't end up a 'cast most damaging spell until SP is gone)
SERIOUS stability issues. I'm talking about world freezes for me where fps drops from 60+ to 1-5. This is during VERY LIGHT servers loads also, and is known by Turbine (engine problem). Been there forever, never fixed. The client leaks memory on many systems (200+MB bloats at times), this has been an issue since alpha.
Turns from clerics restore Mana? Sure, I like it, but another massive departure from the realm of plausible PnP adaptations.
With the new patch there are monsters in quests that are lvl 1/2 quests that should be a challenge on a lvl 3-4 quest. Stems from the fact they don't make monsters with ANY coherent ruleset, it's more like an ad hoc monster here, one there, etc...
Traps SUCK! Walk down a hall, get hit 6-7 times in 2-3 secs by one trap? This is all over the place.
It you don't have fps skills, tough luck. This is a MAJOR departure from D&D. When has D&D RP required you personally to have the skills your thief, fighter, etc SHOULD have by virtue of being a thief, fighter, etc...
BUGS, BUGS, BUGS!! They even broke the bug reporting ability from within the game with a 'patch' ?!?
Content? What content? Did I mention it is INTENTIONAL design to have to repeat the same quests? (From the lead man himself, Ken) Don't want to grind? Find another game off the bat.
Total lack of things do do beyond hump from shop to shop and sit in an Inn while waiting to form up a group to actually play the game. (New patch makes playing solo even harder)
I have played every class available, every race, and have run most up to lvl 5 at least before wiping them and starting a new one. At every major patch I have created new chars to test things. I have been hoping this would be a game that felt like D&D, not even close. What will be released will in my mind still be a beta, as they have bugs from alpha they still can't fix as of the lastest release.
DO NOT BUY THIS GAME ON DAY 1!!!!!! I can't emphasize that enough. It went from fun to being a chore to play at times, but I did my duty as a betatester and tested everything I could. I won't buy this game until a few things happen :
1) Bugs and stability issues are fixed. As close as we are to final release, it's pathetic to have so many long standing bugs in the game, as well as long standing connection and gameplay stutter issues still around.
2) Content is added. Untill repeating a quest is OPTIONAL to get to level 10, there is simply not enough content. What part of repeating the SAME dungeon over and over has even a remote connection to D&D?
3) The devs stop ignoring 80% of the bases questions. What makes you think they are going to have any type of quality support for a real base, when they don't even bother to respond to the small beta base?
Those 3 things fixed, check it out. It still won't be D&D on the computer, the basic design they chose has ruined that hope, but it should be quite fun, and those 3 are enough for me to at least try it for a few months, as I like much of the combat (all there really is to the game sadly) but am under no impressions this is even close to PnP on the computer.
In closing, if you DO buy this game off the bat, you might as well buy this movie, as you will be getting about the same value for your $$$ in each case.
P.S. If I misspelled anything, sorry, but it doesn't invalidate my comments.
Dude, you need to get over the fact that this is a computer game and not a digital PnP simulator.
And clearly you never tested a computer game before.
Ok, please address all the comments in bold, and explain what PnP changes have to do with those, can you? Didn't think so. Those are serious flaws in the game, unrelated to the changes from PnP. Way to be dismissive without even reading the post. Try again.
Never tested a computer game before? What makes you say that?
... Jeez, accusing me of not reading the post... how rude, but I'll do you a favor and address your comments explicitly.
a.) Any MMO has bugs unless you spent 2 years debugging like WoW did.
b.) This is not meant to be a PnP simulator, it's a computer game based on (that does not mean it's a 1 to 1 copy) DnD rules and setting. Complaining about them not following the "rules" is like asking for the LotR movies to follow the books word by word ( I realize some people would like that, but in the intereste of good moving making things had to be changed).
c.) The repetitivness is there. From what I've read you should never have to complete any quest more than 3 times, and almost all quests till level 5 or so need only be done once to level up.
And so now we come to:
"Dude, you need to get over the fact that this is a computer game and not a digital PnP simulator.
And clearly you never tested a computer game before."
Um,
a) Yes, but did you read what I posted (It's not rude of me to say if your comments reflect that you didn't) The bugs they fix come back with new patches. Since Alpha. I can handle bugs, but when they 'fix' them and the same bugs pop back up in later 'patches', it's poor, pure and simple.
b) This is why I ask if you even read the posts, nothing that I bolded in my response has anything to do with PnP adaptation, so do you have a point here? No, you don't. Try again.
c) From what you have read? Gee whiz, I guess you know more than I do, after all, I only played the game up to those levels multiple times. Why did I stop for the most part around 5? But go ahead and dismiss my comments, after all, I didn't read about it, so I must have no idea how it's setup
I know it's a computer game, not a PnP simulator, that's why I singled out the issues I have with it that are UNRELATED to the PnP adaptation. Try again.
I have to Agree with Ziggy in ALL ASPECTS this game is not ready to be released.
Not what so ever, and any fan boi can bash me thats great, i dont care. This game just isnt ready.
Unless turbine actually turns into an MMO company, and starts listening to their player base, and fixes bugs, oh wait they broke the bug reporter thats right. they send you to a website. LOL. Seriously, THEY BROKE THE BUG REPORTER! AND YOUR GONNA SAY THAT THIS MAN ZIGGY IS WRONG?! Your such a newbie.
This game IS NOT READY i canceled my pre order. I will probally pick this game up a few weeks after release DEPENDING on what my other gamer friends have got to say from playing the game, they will be playing from Day 1, they dont want to hear that it isnt ready, they are geeks with a mtovie and this is after all DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS ONLINE! So they gotta have it. But i really feel that this game is just using its name to sell. The gameplay, packed full of bugs, and once again, THE BUG REPORTER WAS STILL BROKEN DURING OPEN PLAYER BETA!
Deffinantly gonna need ALOT of work.
I actually found that the open world design takes away from the immersion, I never saw what was so immersive about getting a quest that says "We need YOUR help to kill x person so please go help us kill him" only to get to the end of a cave and find 2 groups (yes this has happened more than once) standing around waiting to kill the guy and basically waiting in a line to kill some boss. Instancing to me makes things more immersive, because the central areas of the towns are heavily populated, especially the taverns, but the quests which were assigned to you and your party SHOULD be empty for all but you, because that is your quest. I dont think it should feel as though everyone who is playing the game has or will do the exact quest you are doing now, even if its true, making it apparent takes me out of the game.
Seeing as how this message thread got linked to over at DDO.com, I thought I'd come over and check it out.
Well, it's too bad you didn't like it. I played for a couple days and enjoyed myself. We seem to have completely opposite reactions to the same material.
I like the questing and instanced dungeons. I experienced the opposite type of game in EQ2 and got bored with the shared zones and characters camped out to take down spawning monsters.
I like that you only get XP from quests. That's far more interesting to me than just mindlessly killing monsters for hours on end. It also allows for the possibility of getting XP for not fighting but rather sneaking through a dungeon and stealing the treasure you need to get. I rather like that.
Your point though about every race having the chance to be any class kind of mystifies me though. From my experience playing MMOs, I have yet to see a game that didn't allow every race to be any class. Certain races are better at being one class than another, but the ones I've seen have always been open that way. However, I haven't played a lot of MMOs, so perhaps I have lucked out and played only the ones with lots of character options. Personally, I prefer being able to freely choose my class no matter the race.
I found that the combat system was a bit too hectic and fast-pased, but definitely not dull and boring. EQ2 combat was dull and boring: target a monster; click on attacks/spells/abilities until monster is dead; repeat as necessary. While DDO combat takes a bit of getting used to, you can employ a lot more tactical strategy with it than I have seen in other MMOs.
From what I can tell, what is "wrong" with these developers is that they like a different type of game than you do, which is not wrong but merely a difference of opinion.
The game lacks content? Well, I suppose you're right from a certain point of view. I've read that in order to get to level 10 that you'll need to repeat quests. And that might bother me if I expected to reach level 10 before Turbine released more content into the game, say 2-3 months down the live. But I doubt I'll be able to play often enough to level that fast.
The game lacks originality? Again, I can see that from a certain point of view. They're using the D&D 3.5 rules as a base, so no originality there. They're using an established D&D campaign world. It's a pretty new campaign world, but they are using stuff from the rule books nonetheless. On the other hand, the continent that the city of Stormreach is on is not detailed in the Eberron rule books. In fact, the developers have said that Wizards of the Coast has let them create new monsters and locations that will become part of the campaign world. That sounds like some creativity and originality at work to me.
And I sincerely doubt that Turbine is thinking of releasing the game the way it is. If they were, there wouldn't be another month of Beta testing planned. Will most of it be the same? Yes. But there will still be bug fixes and rules tweakings done before the game goes live. Therefore, the final game will be different.
It sounds like you had a very negative reaction to the game. That's too bad. Really. It's also too bad that others have clearly had a bad reaction to DDO. It would be great if everyone loved DDO, but that hardly seems possible what with people having so many different opinions about what they like. But it also seems clear that some people do like DDO and are going to play it. Including myself and some friends of mine. Oh, we all have our opinions about how the game might be better, but it still seems good enough to give it a chance.
Well, again, it's too bad you didn't enjoy DDO. I hope, however, you'll find a game more your style and have a good time.
Respectfully,
Sir Grail
True, the game isn't ready. But there's a least one more month of Beta testing to go. I find it likely that some fixes will be put into place in that time.
However, if worse came to worse and the game were released with just as many bugs as it has now, I'd still buy it and play it. I played for a couple days with the last build and had a fun time. It wasn't perfect, but I enjoyed myself and that's good enough for me.
Respectfully,
Sir Grail
Personally, I don't expect to level up fast enough that this will be a problem as I'm sure that Turbine will add more content to the game in 2-3 months. It's been almost 2 years and I still haven't gotten a hero beyond level 36 in City of Heroes. Still, I can see how this might be a problem for some. It just isn't for me.
Again, as I don't expect to be repeating quests (unless I'm helping a friend), I don't see this as a problem. In fact, I think it's kind of cool that so much is static because then I could go back and see/find things I missed the first run through. That's cool to me.
Perhaps you're right, but I tried playing a cleric during the Preview and had a good time. I also didn't have a problem with Turning Undead with a rather average WIS/CHA of 14/14. I don't know much about archery, but I did try using a crossbow. Yes, it was slow to reload but I wasn't surprised by that. The Rapid Reload feat is there to speed things up for crossbows. Bows may be different, however. I never tried one out.
I know nothing about this as I only tried the Preview. I didn't experience many bugs, and those I did see were hardly game breakers, but then again I didn't play very long.
From my experience with seeing feedback given to devs, Turbine seems hardly unique in this respect. Given the amount of feedback they are likely getting, do you really expect them to answer most of it? I think they'd need a lot more personnel to sift through it all.
From what I could see, PnP mechanics were a large part of the game, from feats to skill usage to armor and weapons rules to class abilities to racial modifiers. I didn't try many spells, so you could be right about that. Also, the CR rating for monsters in the PnP game were rather hit or miss too, so I'm not surprised that Turbine wasn't able to do any better. (Seriously, have you seen Spider Swarms? CR1 and they're poisonous and immune to weapon damage? Yeah, right.)
This is annoying, no doubt. Personally, I hope they get rid of the infinite spellpoints for monster spellcasters.
Not having had a lot of experience with casting spells, you may be right. However, I shall hold judgment until seeing it myself.
I had some lag problems, but I've had lag problems with all the MMOs I've played. The game never crashed on me, but I only played for a couple days.
Actually, if you look in the Complete Divine sourcebook for D&D 3.5, this isn't that far of a stretch. There are a bunch of feats introduced in that book that allow clerics to do other things with their Turn Undead uses.
See above for my thoughts on the CR rules in PnP D&D.
I don't have much of a problem with this. It's a trap. The point is to avoid them. I walked into a trap or two. I also avoided damage from traps by timing my movement properly. I think it's cool that they allow that.
From my experience, my friends and I were able to get through combat without having good fps skills. We probably would have taken less damage if we did have more skills in that area, but the game is hardly unplayable without them.
Well, they've got at least another month of Beta to fix bugs. I say wait until Beta is over to complain about this.
See answer to first statement.
Things I saw to do:
1) Explore the city - Granted the city isn't huge, but it should still take some time to check it out.
2) Talk to all of the NPCs
3) Go on quests
4) Buy/sell at shops
5) Buy/sell from other players
6) Chat with other players
Frankly, I don't have much of a problem with the lack of solo content. Some players are able to solo quests that I can't, but I'd much rather group up to take on quests. I have a lot more fun that way.
I have little to say to this except that the game felt like D&D to me. Not exactly like D&D, but like D&D.
Too late for that as I have preordered and have every intention of playing the game. I had fun with it. I'm sorry that you did not.
Respectfully,
Sir Grail
I played the 2nd stress test, 10 day beta and the preview for DDO and all I can say is thank god someone made a game thats not another EQ clone.
I finally have a game to play that lets me control my character right down to when he swings his weapon. I can't stand auto attack combat that nearly EVERY freaking MMO uses now.
Monsters no longer just stand in place during a fight. In DDO they try to flank you, kobold shamen will jump back out of your melee range to cast spells at you, skeletal warriors will dodge and hop around like their on crack avoiding your attacks then move in to make their attack. I LOVE THIS about this game.
Finally a game that doesn't restrict what my character can do by race or class. Want to make a dual wielding paladin? DO IT! Want to make a fighter that can also cast some wizard spells? DO IT. Want to make that tiny halfling a raging barbarian? DO IT!
Don't like instancing? I could give a crap about open or instanced world as long as I'm having fun.
Alot of bugs? Name me an MMO that doesn't have bugs that were present at its release that are STILL around.
To me thats what DDO gives that none of the big name MMO's do and thats why I will be playing it.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
Um,
a) Yes, but did you read what I posted (It's not rude of me to say if your comments reflect that you didn't) The bugs they fix come back with new patches. Since Alpha. I can handle bugs, but when they 'fix' them and the same bugs pop back up in later 'patches', it's poor, pure and simple.
b) This is why I ask if you even read the posts, nothing that I bolded in my response has anything to do with PnP adaptation, so do you have a point here? No, you don't. Try again.
c) From what you have read? Gee whiz, I guess you know more than I do, after all, I only played the game up to those levels multiple times. Why did I stop for the most part around 5? But go ahead and dismiss my comments, after all, I didn't read about it, so I must have no idea how it's setup
I know it's a computer game, not a PnP simulator, that's why I singled out the issues I have with it that are UNRELATED to the PnP adaptation. Try again.
As to point c: there is repetition, there is no reason to argue about it. Show me a game that is fun, has no repetitiona and last longer than 20 hours. We'd all like a fantastic, random generated story that can rival Tolkien or Dostoyevsky... I have not see any game accompish such feat and we probably won't see for the next 40 to 80 years..
As to a and b I suggest you re-read your post and think about what you wrote.
Aww, I'm sorry to hear alot of people don't like dungeons and Dragons Online. I thought it was fun. I like how involved i feel in the combat. takes a lot of gettign used to for me, I'm so used to eq's combat system.
oh and I love the taveern music. and the sounds inside too.
I must agree with the original poster. I thought the game was neat at first, having played NwN in the past. The graphics are okay & the gameplay is alright but the level design is poor. Its always the same dungeons with no variation, if they were random it would make gameplay alot funner. There are only so many times you can do butchers quest before you start to lose interest in the game...
I uninstalled it 3 times before getting to level 6, thinking that I gave up too easily. In reality I was simply reaching out, trying to tell myself this game is mundane & boring. Uninstalled, game files deleted.
Perhaps its the entire wave of Free to Play mmo's that has tired me... I feel that there is no decent f2p mmo & i've tried just about all of them.
Regards
<sighs>
You revived a 3 year old post
You can not agree with the OP as this was a totally different game then todays game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Please don't revive the dead.
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