I agree that MMORPG laws should decide in-game theft etc. But now, with the introduction of taxation on virtual goods (see www.juliandibbell.com) it follows that, if the item is worth real money and stolen, it is not outrageous to wonder whether that crime is soon to be considered a real-world offence, so to speak.
I might be speaking out of turn here, but with the involvement of institutions such as the IRS, it seems MMORPG's might be headed towards commercialisation...Is real-world advertising inside virtual worlds that difficult to imagine. After all, where money is being made, you know the sharks are circling.
Originally posted by SLmag I'm a journalist writing a story on virtual gaming, with focus on the tendency of parents, corporations etc to blame MMORPGs for deaths, antisocial behavior etc. There are a bunch of laws now attempting to protect gamers, but where should the responsibility lie? There are now people being murdered foir virtual theft and so on. The line between fantasy and reality seems to be blurring a bit, but the blame game feels unfair to me. Anyone care to comment? I'd be grateful. Matthew
Well, as interesting and over done as this particular topic is, a bit of a history lesson is probably in order.
This type of idiotic belief has been a re-occuring theme throughout modern history. Admiral Nelson was known to be worried about the novels his daughter was reading back in the 1800s, many contemporaries considered novels to encourage un-healthy behavior.
Rock and Roll in the 50s and 60s encouraged violence, sex, and drugs...
TV for our generation, was said to influence violence and there were many many studies thats indicatied it had far more to do with upbringing, environment, and personality than anything on the TV.
Video games are simply the latest cultural bug-bear, simply the latest thing that the ruling adults simply do not understand.
Very few laws stretch into the home. What people do in their own home is their business.
As far as personal responsibility, this is a similar issue to people eating at McDonald's. Should people be able to sue McDonald's? Should there be laws for how often people can eat junk food. It's personal responsibility.
I think there should be laws and rules in MMORPG's. yes, I also find it weird and stupid people die of online gaming, yet making mistakes is only natural, should this person pay the ultimate price? I can't imagine anybody would ever say: "Hey, your stupid, you deserve to die". that being said, I do agree its also self responsibility, but its also part responsibility of the game (Developers). a good example is World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft has the honour system. it basicly means you get special points for defeating other players in pvp, and with these points you get higher ranks. the higher your rank, the better items you can buy. the top items can only be bought if you have the top rank. getting to the top rank takes weeks of playing all day long, which is VERY unhealthy. If you know you have trouble stoping playing a game, then use the controll system. its there for a reason.
Could you gain top rank in months of modest gaming too, or does the game hinder this healthier path of progression and glory? (They shouldn't, as allowing for a long term progression would keep players around for longer)
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
I find this topic very apt considering I recently had a conversation with some of my friends regarding our view on why society feels the need to place blame versus accepting blame.
No one wants to admit when they have made a mistake, the more important the mistake the less likely someone will admit to fault. This is a double edged sword, in the case of MMORPG's there is certainly enough blame to be spread among all those involved.
The Gamer: Should know his/her limits when it comes to prolonged use of a game. Should monitor themselves to make sure that they are taking breaks and getting away from the game. Sometimes those breaks should be a short 15 minute bathroom and food/water break; however at other times the breaks should be longer - days, weeks, months - if the gamer is starting to get into the game TOO much (crying at death, becoming enraged at noob mistakes or the behavior of other players). The gamer has the largest share of the responsibilty unless they are real young and then it is shouldered by:
The Parent: Any loving parent should be monitoring what games their children play, how long they are playing, and how it is affecting them in the outside environment. If a parent feels that the game is causing some type of negative response then the game should be curtailed or banned. Awhile back my wife's 10 year old cousins asked for (and received) Doom 2 for Christmas. Their parents had no idea what type of game they had given their kids, they didn't do any research to figure out if it was appropriate for the maturity level of the twins. It was not until months later when they witnessed the kids playing the game that they were horrified by the game content. Parents need to become more involved in their kids lives if they are surprised by the game content and the reaction of the child to the game content. Game content however rest squarely on the shoulders of:
The Game Manufacturers: This is where it gets tricky for me. I honestly believe the individual and the parent represent 85% of all responsibility for a negative reaction to a game. However that doesn't mean that the manufacturers get a pass. By creating a game (in this case a MMORPG) you take some responsibility for how the product is used. Instead of being reactive and defending themselves time and again with the argument that the "Parent/person is responsible" or "We have a warning label system" the gaming industry should step up and implement IN GAME solutions as well. Doing the minimum and portraying it as a major hardship is not going to work, no one believes your hype so neither should you.
A final component that shares in the responsibility is:
The Retailer: If someone is too young for a game, you shouldn't sell it too them. Simple yet not often followed. I have witnessed 11-12 year old boys who wander in and buy GTA:Vice City without the retailer batting an eye. Very rarely do kids with cash in hand get turned down by the salesperson.
Overall this is just another situation where the media and politicians have created a furor over a few rare incidences in which already mentally unstable individuals commit an atrocious act or die due to an obsession over a piece of popular culture. Whether it is Rock 'N' Roll, RPG's or Computer Games the tendency is to blame someone or something else for the individuals failings rather than accept responsibility for their own actions....
Sorry for the long sociological rant....Didn't mean to get going so much, anyway that is just my 4 cents (too lengthy a post to claim 2 cents).
Originally posted by SLmag I'm a journalist writing a story on virtual gaming, with focus on the tendency of parents, corporations etc to blame MMORPGs for deaths, antisocial behavior etc. There are a bunch of laws now attempting to protect gamers, but where should the responsibility lie? There are now people being murdered foir virtual theft and so on. The line between fantasy and reality seems to be blurring a bit, but the blame game feels unfair to me. Anyone care to comment? I'd be grateful. Matthew
Let me answer this wit a personal story.
My wife works from home most of the times. In the past couple of months there have been a rash of cars in the neighborhood that have been broke into.
one day while excersizing my dogs went crazy. This is a sign that someone is at the door or close to it.
My wife went to see what the commotion was about and saw nothing until she looked out the front window. To her amazement a kid was breaking into one of the neighbors cars. The kid had broken in and was dismembering the car. He saw my wife looking at him and paniced and ran away. Well the cops had been called and they nabbed the kid. the asked my wife if she was willing to identify the person she had seen. and she did after being shown some suspects. She also found out from the neighbor later, that the boy she had identified had some of the property he had stolen from the car with him.
The other day as the boys mother was walking past the window, my wife sitting out admiring a nice day. the boys mother gave her the look of death, the one that said, how dare you turn my son in for a crime.
This is simular to blaming Video games for violence. the true culprit is the person,and the act they committed regardless of where they got the Idea. The problem, no morals were instilled into the person to realize that crime is not right regardless of whether its violence or other forms.
The reason we have laws is because everyone agrees that some things are wrong. To go back and say, well its not wrong any longer because you played video games, how stupid is that? Where is the justifcation for that? what about the victim. He may have watched a more violent video game, is it ok if he comes and kills the other person. Or a person that saw the killing is it right for him/her to kill the person that shot the second person who shot the first person? where does it end? when do we stop blaming the act of committing a crime on the act itself and place it on the person who performed it.
is the person disturbed for doing that? yes, why, because he played video games? please!!!
IF the person never had contact with the outside world, never read a paper and never surfed the internet. Maybe you could blame video games for the violence. But even then a simple word from another saying. Its a game, its not real life, in real life you cant do that. at that point it becomes the responsibility of the individual to realize based on common decency that its wrong to hurt others through violence and to do so has its consequences. both legal and moral.
an analogy, any dog can become a vicous killer. its the owner that forms the dog into what he is, when the dog doesnt listen it has consequences. the parents own the kids. in a sense they are meant to instill thier morals on the kid. if the parents condon violence and dont teach the kids that the mean baddie they are playing in the game is not real. and in real life there is always someone bigger and badder than you.
I could write a book about the subject (as if I just didnt) but......
Comments
I agree that MMORPG laws should decide in-game theft etc. But now, with the introduction of taxation on virtual goods (see www.juliandibbell.com) it follows that, if the item is worth real money and stolen, it is not outrageous to wonder whether that crime is soon to be considered a real-world offence, so to speak.
I might be speaking out of turn here, but with the involvement of institutions such as the IRS, it seems MMORPG's might be headed towards commercialisation...Is real-world advertising inside virtual worlds that difficult to imagine. After all, where money is being made, you know the sharks are circling.
Well, as interesting and over done as this particular topic is, a bit of a history lesson is probably in order.
This type of idiotic belief has been a re-occuring theme throughout modern history. Admiral Nelson was known to be worried about the novels his daughter was reading back in the 1800s, many contemporaries considered novels to encourage un-healthy behavior.
Rock and Roll in the 50s and 60s encouraged violence, sex, and drugs...
TV for our generation, was said to influence violence and there were many many studies thats indicatied it had far more to do with upbringing, environment, and personality than anything on the TV.
Video games are simply the latest cultural bug-bear, simply the latest thing that the ruling adults simply do not understand.
-Gooney
Very few laws stretch into the home. What people do in their own home is their business.
As far as personal responsibility, this is a similar issue to people eating at McDonald's. Should people be able to sue McDonald's? Should there be laws for how often people can eat junk food. It's personal responsibility.
I think there should be laws and rules in MMORPG's. yes, I also find it weird and stupid people die of online gaming, yet making mistakes is only natural, should this person pay the ultimate price? I can't imagine anybody would ever say: "Hey, your stupid, you deserve to die". that being said, I do agree its also self responsibility, but its also part responsibility of the game (Developers). a good example is World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft has the honour system. it basicly means you get special points for defeating other players in pvp, and with these points you get higher ranks. the higher your rank, the better items you can buy. the top items can only be bought if you have the top rank. getting to the top rank takes weeks of playing all day long, which is VERY unhealthy. If you know you have trouble stoping playing a game, then use the controll system. its there for a reason.
How can you blame food for overweght?
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
I find this topic very apt considering I recently had a conversation with some of my friends regarding our view on why society feels the need to place blame versus accepting blame.
No one wants to admit when they have made a mistake, the more important the mistake the less likely someone will admit to fault. This is a double edged sword, in the case of MMORPG's there is certainly enough blame to be spread among all those involved.
The Gamer: Should know his/her limits when it comes to prolonged use of a game. Should monitor themselves to make sure that they are taking breaks and getting away from the game. Sometimes those breaks should be a short 15 minute bathroom and food/water break; however at other times the breaks should be longer - days, weeks, months - if the gamer is starting to get into the game TOO much (crying at death, becoming enraged at noob mistakes or the behavior of other players). The gamer has the largest share of the responsibilty unless they are real young and then it is shouldered by:
The Parent: Any loving parent should be monitoring what games their children play, how long they are playing, and how it is affecting them in the outside environment. If a parent feels that the game is causing some type of negative response then the game should be curtailed or banned. Awhile back my wife's 10 year old cousins asked for (and received) Doom 2 for Christmas. Their parents had no idea what type of game they had given their kids, they didn't do any research to figure out if it was appropriate for the maturity level of the twins. It was not until months later when they witnessed the kids playing the game that they were horrified by the game content. Parents need to become more involved in their kids lives if they are surprised by the game content and the reaction of the child to the game content. Game content however rest squarely on the shoulders of:
The Game Manufacturers: This is where it gets tricky for me. I honestly believe the individual and the parent represent 85% of all responsibility for a negative reaction to a game. However that doesn't mean that the manufacturers get a pass. By creating a game (in this case a MMORPG) you take some responsibility for how the product is used. Instead of being reactive and defending themselves time and again with the argument that the "Parent/person is responsible" or "We have a warning label system" the gaming industry should step up and implement IN GAME solutions as well. Doing the minimum and portraying it as a major hardship is not going to work, no one believes your hype so neither should you.
A final component that shares in the responsibility is:
The Retailer: If someone is too young for a game, you shouldn't sell it too them. Simple yet not often followed. I have witnessed 11-12 year old boys who wander in and buy GTA:Vice City without the retailer batting an eye. Very rarely do kids with cash in hand get turned down by the salesperson.
Overall this is just another situation where the media and politicians have created a furor over a few rare incidences in which already mentally unstable individuals commit an atrocious act or die due to an obsession over a piece of popular culture. Whether it is Rock 'N' Roll, RPG's or Computer Games the tendency is to blame someone or something else for the individuals failings rather than accept responsibility for their own actions....
Sorry for the long sociological rant....Didn't mean to get going so much, anyway that is just my 4 cents (too lengthy a post to claim 2 cents).
=Dan
Let me answer this wit a personal story.
My wife works from home most of the times. In the past couple of months there have been a rash of cars in the neighborhood that have been broke into.
one day while excersizing my dogs went crazy. This is a sign that someone is at the door or close to it.
My wife went to see what the commotion was about and saw nothing until she looked out the front window. To her amazement a kid was breaking into one of the neighbors cars. The kid had broken in and was dismembering the car. He saw my wife looking at him and paniced and ran away. Well the cops had been called and they nabbed the kid. the asked my wife if she was willing to identify the person she had seen. and she did after being shown some suspects. She also found out from the neighbor later, that the boy she had identified had some of the property he had stolen from the car with him.
The other day as the boys mother was walking past the window, my wife sitting out admiring a nice day. the boys mother gave her the look of death, the one that said, how dare you turn my son in for a crime.
This is simular to blaming Video games for violence. the true culprit is the person,and the act they committed regardless of where they got the Idea. The problem, no morals were instilled into the person to realize that crime is not right regardless of whether its violence or other forms.
The reason we have laws is because everyone agrees that some things are wrong. To go back and say, well its not wrong any longer because you played video games, how stupid is that? Where is the justifcation for that? what about the victim. He may have watched a more violent video game, is it ok if he comes and kills the other person. Or a person that saw the killing is it right for him/her to kill the person that shot the second person who shot the first person? where does it end? when do we stop blaming the act of committing a crime on the act itself and place it on the person who performed it.
is the person disturbed for doing that? yes, why, because he played video games? please!!!
IF the person never had contact with the outside world, never read a paper and never surfed the internet. Maybe you could blame video games for the violence. But even then a simple word from another saying. Its a game, its not real life, in real life you cant do that. at that point it becomes the responsibility of the individual to realize based on common decency that its wrong to hurt others through violence and to do so has its consequences. both legal and moral.
an analogy, any dog can become a vicous killer. its the owner that forms the dog into what he is, when the dog doesnt listen it has consequences. the parents own the kids. in a sense they are meant to instill thier morals on the kid. if the parents condon violence and dont teach the kids that the mean baddie they are playing in the game is not real. and in real life there is always someone bigger and badder than you.
I could write a book about the subject (as if I just didnt) but......