Thriller, couldn't disagree more with you. I think the battle will go to WoW based on all of the Blizzard fans out there. Do not underestimate all of those fanbois out there.
Sumer Nivek
MMORPGs played: Ultima Online, World War II Online, Star Wars Galaxies...
Currently waiting for City of Heros and World of Warcraft.
Sumer Nivek
MMORPGs played: Ultima Online, World War II Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and City of Heros...
Wow and guild wars aren't the same type of game and i will play both, but that question wow vs guild wars is stupid you are in guild wars forum then guild wars will win post it in wow forums and then WoW will win personally i think wow is better than guild wars.
This means less patches and tech support, and most likely more bugs on the servers. But it's free!!! Whereas WoW will be Pay to play and will be an overall more enjoyable experience since less bugs. I say you must get Guild Wars since it's free anyways
I have often wanted to drown my troubles, but I can't get my wife to go swimming.
Although I've never played any of the Blizzard games, WOW is looking pretty good right now. I've looked at guild wars and I must say, it might be alot different then some, but well have to wait and see. I'm waiting to hear more about future updates on it and hopefully getting into beta if they allow people to. Although this will be much different then alot of games I've tested, it should be interesting to see what they want tested.
Originally posted by AbyssKnight Guild Wars = Free. This means less patches and tech support, and most likely more bugs on the servers. But it's free!!! Whereas WoW will be Pay to play and will be an overall more enjoyable experience since less bugs. I say you must get Guild Wars since it's free anyways I have often wanted to drown my troubles, but I can't get my wife to go swimming.
I wouldn't bet on that being true. The alpha is already very tight in terms of how few bugs there are. I'm amazed that it runs so smooth. Also, Guild Wars won't have patches as you know them any way. They won't be spending weeks, months or years(!!!) working on patches. They'll spot a bug, fix it, and stream it to you next time you connect.
Guild Wars is exactly what I am looking for in an online rpg game. No exceedingly long treadmill, which means less downtime and constant action. And finally we have skill based pvp, not time based my spreadsheet/hours played>yours I win pvp. Its nice to know that my performance and decisions actually determine the outcome of a battle, not the clicking of my mouse button on a skill icon while im in auto attack where output is dependent solely on my level. Also I am quite interested in the fairly open grouping structure in that I don't need to be in a strict level range to viably group with my friends.
The graphics are also looking great as well. I don't mind the WoW art style, but the character models themselves are just plain bad. Any fanboy will be quick to state they aern't, regardless of the truth or not, but they are still blocky and behind the times. I don't care if good graphics lag the server or not, If Lineage 2 can do it then I don't see why WoW can't. I find it hard to believe that phantasy star online for the dreamcast five years ago had smoother character models.
WoW is hyped because of blizzard and the Warcraft series. This in no way equals a revolutionary mmorpg. And judging by their own faq and beta boards, its not much different from anything else on the market conceptually speaking. Im not saying it won't be a great if not the best current mmorpg, but its still essentially all about levels and time from a player competition perspective, which is what I care about most.
Uhhh first of all this game is mainly a pvp game all you do is mainly kill. 2nd this game has blizzard programmers (some) so if their best ones are the blizzard well WoW has all Blizzard Programmers. And 3rd WoW graphics our cool and good enough for me, and guild wars isn't really too much a mmorpg compare to WoW!
Firstly, someone in this thread said that because WOW has monthly fees this will guarantee more patching and better service. This is absolutely not the case.
Blizzard, being a bigger and more established company will put Joe Smith a poorly paid programmer to do the patching while their elite team works on something new. To maximise profits (which is all blizzard cares about these days) they will put the effort where the money will be.
Notice I am not saying that they will avoid patching, they will obviously have a very good patching policy but if you think that Arenanet will be lazier you're wrong.
Arenanet, because they are starting out, will want to release a very good product. They will put all their efforts in making this the best possible game. So patching will be on par with WOW at least at the beginning. Arenanet does not have a BRAND NAME to sell their product for them. They have to produce something good.
WOW will make tons of money from their loyal fanbase, fooled into thinking that Blizzard is the same company it was 3-5 years ago. People who don't know that many blizzard developers left for Arenanet and Flagship studios.
For those of us who do know what arenanet is doing and who is behind arenanet, our main mission right now is to make sure that as many people know about Guild Wars as possible. I have been bugging all my clanmates and friends who enjoyed the blizzard games (prior diablo2) to check out Guild Wars. And now they are all as impatient as I am about the game.
WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE LOOKING! If we want Guild Wars to succeed, every gamer, just like you and I, needs to inform anyone and everyone about this game.
If you, like me, are sick of not being able to play quality MMORPGs because you don't want to pay monthly, this is the ONLY opportunity we have to make a dent in the pay-as-you-play MMORPG's.
Pester all your contacts about Guild Wars, especially the ones you know who are thinking about buying WOW. Lets get the information about Guild Wars to everyone we can. Lets make this trend-breaker a success story.
Now is the perfect time for us to act. Release is still a long way off, and we can start building momentum and interest in Guild Wars. Tell your friends, make sure they visit their site, then make sure they tell their friends about it. If you have the time, start up Guild Wars Fan Sites. Convince people that paying money a month is silly when you can play a better game without the hassle of fees.
Well as far as picking which one to play it shouldn't be about the graphics or the price. If you think price is going to have a major impact, I doubt it. It might make a small amount of ppl to choose gw over wow....but if price was a factor then games like ao, or eq would not be as popular as they are. When picking a game you should decide on the game play itself. Are you a mainstream mmorpg game player that likes games like EQ, or AO? Or are you more into the roleplaying as in Ultima and SWG? I have been looking into both wow and eq, and have come to the conclusion that GW is by far the game that is going to come out on top. WoW looks like a good game for those liking AO or EQ type games. It also has the backing of a very successful company "Blizzard". Which in turn give it better scores by gaming ezines and magazines. But I can almost without a doubt predict that GW will be the best mmorpg out there, and that the other game designers will be copying GW in the years to come, just as everyone has copied the original rpg, the grand daddy of them all, D&D!!!! Which is where all these games derived from in one way or another. I think Guild Wars will meet the roleplayer gamers ticket for story and problem solving and missions. And it will also be the ticket for power lvlers, and hack n slash type games.
If the graphics truely are as good as they are in the SS that i have seen, then guild wars will rock WOW. Guild wars looks like a completely new addition, not the same old mmo that we are getting today. The game looks unique in alot of ways and I will deffinately follow its production as close as i possibly can
Originally posted by FlamingBoi lmao.. u guys are wrong.. firstly.. no subscription fees may lead to many expansion packs that may cost 40-50 USD... and they may be a must to have em to play the game.. secondly.. i seriously think guild wars is lacking of some contents.. its just a game where u PvP? .. no sense :P .. but.. i'd probably read reviews.. most likely guild wars if my mum won lend me her cc.. WoW if i have a cc :P..
First all game expantion packs for MMoRPGs cost money which I think it total BS since your paying a monthly fee for the maintance and expantion of the game. So I am not sure where your going with your post here as your point is mute since all expantions cost money...
Second how can you possibly post about content in a game that is not only not released but is not even in Beta, other than inhouse..
Guild Wars is going to probably outsell any MMoRPG on the market just for the fact that it does not cost to play. I know I will be buying it even if it sucks just to show the industry that there 15$ a month is getting out of hand since that was suppost to include all expantions to the game. But thanks to SoE (which I hope fails with all releases) proving that you can release unfinished crap and still make money because people will pay to play a beta. Now I am not going to just pick on SoE about this as I could post on so many of the big MMoRPG's on this (Funcom AO, Mythic DAoC, Neocron, many others) but the fact remains SoE was the one that started this stuff. Now I am going to stay on topic here and just say that something needs to be done to either lower rates or stop them if your going to charge for expantions.
However are these companies really to blame for this no I don't think so since there only reason for doing this is to make money. The real fingure pointing is at the players who continue to support these actions. Lets face it if you were not paying they would be fixing the problem so you would pay.
So I will be supporting this game 100% as it will send a message that people want to see stuff change.
As for WoW we can only wait to see what bizzard does. From reports there game is going to be great but I have seen these over and over only to find there not true. Blizzard has a rep to nerf after release to the point of ruining a game eg: Diablo II Necro. Only time will tell.
Originally posted by Tiberiux Blizzard, being a bigger and more established company will put Joe Smith a poorly paid programmer to do the patching while their elite team works on something new. To maximise profits (which is all blizzard cares about these days) they will put the effort where the money will be. Arenanet, because they are starting out, will want to release a very good product. They will put all their efforts in making this the best possible game. So patching will be on par with WOW at least at the beginning. Arenanet does not have a BRAND NAME to sell their product for them. They have to produce something good. WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE LOOKING! If we want Guild Wars to succeed, every gamer, just like you and I, needs to inform anyone and everyone about this game. we can start building momentum and interest in Guild Wars. Tell your friends, make sure they visit their site, then make sure they tell their friends about it. If you have the time, start up Guild Wars Fan Sites. Convince people that paying money a month is silly when you can play a better game without the hassle of fees. Regards, Evil Killa
I like your post it shows thought and accualy exp in MMoRPG's to know how they work behind the monitors. Blizzard putting crap noob programers on patching is exactly what they did with Diablo and DII and moved there main people on to other things. Nice to see posts about what really goes on.
That being said I am not going to agree with your motion to move now as the game is far from release and I would hate for people to loose there intrest waiting. I would rather when it comes out to have the people that believe in it go there and then tell all there friends so they get it log in and go CRAP how did I not see this comming and then they will spread the word faster.
The great thing is this game will not suffer from any other MMoRPG as everyone likes to take a break here and there from there normal game and try something new. When the new thing they try is always 100% free to play this will bring people in over and over. And if good enough to never have someone take a break from it which is not out there yet then people will just stay forever.
Point is I think starting now would not help the game and might hurt it as people that don't follow games like we do will get tired of waiting and say no when it is out.
Ok I have posted this previously and I guess I will post it again. First and foremost I will be playing both games I have been following WOW for a long time. WOW will be another glorified treadmill with a doubt possibly one of the best with competition from EQ2 but it still is what it is and yes I have friends in the beta now who think it's a great looking game and plays well but in the end it's still a treadmill copy plain and simple.
GW is not pay to play period. I can tell you now what you see in the screenshots really are toned down as there screenshots in game it looks even better! GW will release a expansion every 6-9 months you can purchase the expansion or not choice is up to you. Let's say you did not buy expansion 2 but you bought 3 then you can play with anyone that plays original and expansion 3. You are not stuck constantly upgrading if you do not desire to.
GW is not about treadmills and level grinds it is about pure strategy and skill plain and simple. It is honestly really not a MMORPG it is in a class all it's own it's new, refreshing and unique. Currently we have been testing 4 higher level maps for a month now and I have ben playing 8+ hours a day on just those 4 maps. That's a statement within itself considering we dont have 60 missions to romp through right now just the same 4 that are constantly being updated. The game draws me in and keeps me there. In 10 years nothing has done this to me like GW plain and simple.
Again honestly we are trying to compare apples and oranges and there really needs to be no comparison against GW and WOW or any other game for that matter these are 2 different games although GW is revolutionary and ground breaking in the kind of game they are designing which I think is a well needed change to the industry. Again I state I will be playing both games, my guild will be playing both games and a matter of fact as much as I hate sony EQ2 is really looking rather nice as well. SO maybe we should troll a post about wow vs eq2 and start the bashing allover again? Please people gaming is a passion, a hobby for me and many others I been doing it a very long time and ust because I don't like X game doesn't mean that it sucks for someone else.
We are all individuals with our own tastes and opinions not everyone likes spaghetti so do we post a troll and crucify them for it? Forums are honestly full of pitiful BS anymore and it takes time I don't care to use much anymore to sift through the crap to get to the meat so to speak. I am curious if this thread is ever going to end.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
I'm going to try Guild Wars before WoW. I think Guild Wars is going to be AWSOME! But then again I thought Shadowbane was gonna be the new best MMORPG and look how it turned out
_______________________________________________
"Getting it is easy. Filling it with illegal substances and sending accross the border is not." -Ignignokt
Originally posted by Mcygee I'm going to try Guild Wars before WoW. I think Guild Wars is going to be AWSOME! But then again I thought Shadowbane was gonna be the new best MMORPG and look how it turned out
HAHAHA how true it is... No one knows how good a MMoRPg will ever be even the beta tester don't know because even DAoC was great at release then 2 months after the big nerf stick came out and most people left. But then Mythic got smart and put most of it all back and they got quiet a few people to give them another shot and most have not looked back as mythic did alot better job.
AO same thing at release was really poor with way to many problems but they work there butts off and fix alot of it up within 6 months. I don't like this as it sets a very poor standard and it has.
I for one will also be playing both and I love the fact that I will be able to play 2 MMoRPG's and at most only pay for one it give me a change and lets me enjoy both. I think foir this reason GW will be the winner as everyone can play 2 for the same reason but the one the pay for can be anything. However the one they will all have to play as the free one will be GW making it the clear winner in the end.
GW will be like EQ setting the standard and will be on top for a long time in the free to play MMoRPG area.
Originally posted by Tiberiux OK some misconceptions. Firstly, someone in this thread said that because WOW has monthly fees this will guarantee more patching and better service. This is absolutely not the case. Blizzard, being a bigger and more established company will put Joe Smith a poorly paid programmer to do the patching while their elite team works on something new. To maximise profits (which is all blizzard cares about these days) they will put the effort where the money will be. Notice I am not saying that they will avoid patching, they will obviously have a very good patching policy but if you think that Arenanet will be lazier you're wrong. Arenanet, because they are starting out, will want to release a very good product. They will put all their efforts in making this the best possible game. So patching will be on par with WOW at least at the beginning. Arenanet does not have a BRAND NAME to sell their product for them. They have to produce something good. WOW will make tons of money from their loyal fanbase, fooled into thinking that Blizzard is the same company it was 3-5 years ago. People who don't know that many blizzard developers left for Arenanet and Flagship studios. For those of us who do know what arenanet is doing and who is behind arenanet, our main mission right now is to make sure that as many people know about Guild Wars as possible. I have been bugging all my clanmates and friends who enjoyed the blizzard games (prior diablo2) to check out Guild Wars. And now they are all as impatient as I am about the game. WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE LOOKING! If we want Guild Wars to succeed, every gamer, just like you and I, needs to inform anyone and everyone about this game. If you, like me, are sick of not being able to play quality MMORPGs because you don't want to pay monthly, this is the ONLY opportunity we have to make a dent in the pay-as-you-play MMORPG's. Pester all your contacts about Guild Wars, especially the ones you know who are thinking about buying WOW. Lets get the information about Guild Wars to everyone we can. Lets make this trend-breaker a success story. Now is the perfect time for us to act. Release is still a long way off, and we can start building momentum and interest in Guild Wars. Tell your friends, make sure they visit their site, then make sure they tell their friends about it. If you have the time, start up Guild Wars Fan Sites. Convince people that paying money a month is silly when you can play a better game without the hassle of fees. Lets get the ball rolling. Regards, Evil Killa
I've been sort of doing same thing in games like Knight Online, Lineage 2, DAoC - I didn't even bother to play WoW. Trying to let my clanmates know as much as possible about Guild Wars.
But in the end, I came to a conclusion. Let the game speak for itself. We don't need to brag about it. It all comes around the circle. People are not that stupid.
As soon as they hear that this game is free of monthly fee, promote worldwide ladder ranking - harcore competitive type of gaming, hosted by super arrays of sophisticated network servers that utilize "World's Largest Independent Online Game Publisher's" infrastructure, and finally actually experience the game, they will be convinced.
Originally posted by Tiberiux WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE LOOKING! If we want Guild Wars to succeed, every gamer, just like you and I, needs to inform anyone and everyone about this game. If you, like me, are sick of not being able to play quality MMORPGs because you don't want to pay monthly, this is the ONLY opportunity we have to make a dent in the pay-as-you-play MMORPG's. Now is the perfect time for us to act. Release is still a long way off, and we can start building momentum and interest in Guild Wars. Tell your friends, make sure they visit their site, then make sure they tell their friends about it. If you have the time, start up Guild Wars Fan Sites. Convince people that paying money a month is silly when you can play a better game without the hassle of fees.
Lovely rhetoric. Here's the thing: I don't buy it. The fact is, they need to generate revenue to maintain the game. If you are content with paying 6 months of monthly fees in one expansion "shot" then bully for you, but I suspect most people won't be. Gaile's last post on this matter appears to confirm my theory:
"If you think about it, our game has to compete with any other in the market, and our expansion packs need to be great in order to deserve your support. Your support in purchasing the expansion packs, and not your monthly fee, is what will keep us going. You can be sure that the game will be full of excellent content and that the costs of the Expansion Packs will be kept affordable and competitively priced."
"Competitively priced" doesn't sound to me like "subscription free".
So, Gaile, if you can step in here and, definitively and officially, state that Guild Wars will cost significantly less per annum to play to it's fullest extent, than a traditional monthly fee mmorpg like WoW or EQ2, please do so. Until then I remain unconvinced. And for those of you who still harbour the notion that this game will be "free", you truly are naive.
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ." - Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
Originally posted by Gnarled Lovely rhetoric. Here's the thing: I don't buy it. The fact is, they need to generate revenue to maintain the game. If you are content with paying 6 months of monthly fees in one expansion "shot" then bully for you, but I suspect most people won't be. Gaile's last post on this matter appears to confirm my theory: "If you think about it, our game has to compete with any other in the market, and our expansion packs need to be great in order to deserve your support. Your support in purchasing the expansion packs, and not your monthly fee, is what will keep us going. You can be sure that the game will be full of excellent content and that the costs of the Expansion Packs will be kept affordable and competitively priced." "Competitively priced" doesn't sound to me like "subscription free". So, Gaile, if you can step in here and, definitively and officially, state that Guild Wars will cost significantly less per annum to play to it's fullest extent, than a traditional monthly fee mmorpg like WoW or EQ2, please do so. Until then I remain unconvinced. And for those of you who still harbour the notion that this game will be "free", you truly are naive.
The game is subscription free. This has been stated time and again.
As for price tags on boxes ... "Competitively priced" says to me that the pricing will be very similar to existing game/expansion prices. Now you do the math. A standard expansion every 6 months is a lot cheaper than $10-15/month PLUS periodic expansions. Even more so: The choice is yours. If you don't want to buy the expansion, you don't have to. If you get very busy in life and can't play you don't have to worry about "wasting" money on an idle account.
Originally posted by Gnarled So, Gaile, if you can step in here and, definitively and officially, state that Guild Wars will cost significantly less per annum to play to it's fullest extent, than a traditional monthly fee mmorpg like WoW or EQ2, please do so. Until then I remain unconvinced. And for those of you who still harbour the notion that this game will be "free", you truly are naive.
The game is free they have alreay posted it and in the news release they have stated the game will have no month fee at all. It is free to play online. So I am not sure why you would think the game will have a cost. It is also listed here on MMoRPG as free to play online. So if you want a definitive and official statement then here go read this:
This is the official Guild Wars site and there own responce to this question. Before posting you might accually want to read something about a game.
Why are there so many people that post messages with no knowledge at all?
Again here is a quote from the link above.. This is an official responce to the question posted on the guild wars site.
Will there be a monthly fee for Guild Wars?
No, there will not be a monthly subscription fee of any kind, anywhere.
The competitive price they stated is the price of the expantion packs just like EQ,AO,DAoC, and all other MMoRPGs. And if you think the money SoE is making off of the monthly fee is going into the maintainance of the game it is you thats totally naive. Sony is making a killing off EQ.
Blizzard has been running Diablo II servers for years with never charging 1 penny for there online gaming so if you think that Sony needs that money to keep it running your way off. Sony has used the millions it has made off just yours and others monthly fee to finance SWG,EQ2,Planetside, and more. It has nothing to do with keeping EQ going they can do that just off the money they make off of each expantion pack. No your monthly fee pays for them to make other games that they can then release and make even more money. Welcome to business..
Originally posted by Gnarled So, Gaile, if you can step in here and, definitively and officially, state that Guild Wars will cost significantly less per annum to play to it's fullest extent, than a traditional monthly fee mmorpg like WoW or EQ2, please do so. Until then I remain unconvinced. And for those of you who still harbour the notion that this game will be "free", you truly are naive.
This is the official Guild Wars site and there own responce to this question. Before posting you might accually want to read something about a game.
Why are there so many people that post messages with no knowledge at all?
Again here is a quote from the link above.. This is an official responce to the question posted on the guild wars site.
OMG are you ever a naive jackass. I have read everything on the official website several times. I also understand (apparently a little better than you) how economics work in the mmorgp world. So you dream your little dream about playing this game for free. I'll see ya in a year or two after retail and x number of (gameplay required) expansions.
Oh yeah, and why do you think Gaile hasn't piped up in here yet ?
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ." - Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
Originally posted by Gnarled OMG are you ever a naive jackass. I have read everything on the official website several times. I also understand (apparently a little better than you) how economics work in the mmorgp world. So you dream your little dream about playing this game for free. I'll see ya in a year or two after retail and x number of (gameplay required) expansions. Oh yeah, and why do you think Gaile hasn't piped up in here yet ?
Um, you just made yourself look like a jackass. The expansions are NOT "gameplay required" - ArenaNet have stated this numerous times, and if you'd bothered to address my reply above (I'll quote it below in case you missed it) you would have known that already.
Originally posted by GhostRaptor The game is subscription free. This has been stated time and again.As for price tags on boxes ... "Competitively priced" says to me that the pricing will be very similar to existing game/expansion prices. Now you do the math. A standard expansion every 6 months is a lot cheaper than $10-15/month PLUS periodic expansions. Even more so: The choice is yours. If you don't want to buy the expansion, you don't have to. If you get very busy in life and can't play you don't have to worry about "wasting" money on an idle account.
If you are at a loss as to how ArenaNet can do this, let me explain:
1) They have engineered the game to minimise server and bandwidth costs. 2) With no monthly fee and compelling, fun gameplay, they expect to sell a lot of copies. 3) By releasing expansions that include more compelling and fun gameplay, they expect to sell a lot of copies of expansions. NB - Expansions are NOT required. You can continue to play whether you buy them or not. You can also play with (and against) players who do have the expansions.
Now compare the 12 month costs. Assume $50 to buy the original game (both MMO and Guild Wars). For a standard MMORPG assume $10/month, first month free. Assume ArenaNet release an expansion every 6 months at a competitive price (assume $35).
* 12 month costs for a standard MMO: $160 for first year. $120 for second year plus any expansion(s). * 12 month costs for Guild Wars: $85 for first year. $70 for second year. Assumes you buy all expansions.
Clearly Guild Wars is cheaper for the end user.
So now lets look at revenue. Assume the MMO has 400,000 subscriptions current from the day the game is released. Assume Guild Wars is successful and sells 1,000,000 copies of the base game and expansions.
* 12 month revenue for MMO: $64 million first year, $48 million (plus expansions) second year. * 12 month revenue for GW: $85 million first year, $70 million second year.
Seems to me that as long as Guild Wars is successful, they'll have plenty of income. Those numbers are deliberately skewed to make GW look bad (eg the assumption that an MMO has 400k subs from day 1 and for the full 2 years). Granted, we do not know the costs of running the servers. But given that ArenaNet have stated they have optimised the code to minimise bandwidth usage, we can assume that Guild Wars should be cheaper to run (per copy sold).
This argument is running in two threads and I am tired of it. You just more or less agreed with my point with your numbers, though they are equivalent to so much sky-writing - $155 million in revenue in 2 years. But where is that money coming from ? Must be thin air, because this game is free right ? Secondly, yes they have stated that the expansions are not required. And apparently your glasses are a little rosey and you've allowed plenty of sunshine to be blown up your ass, because you sound like someone who believes everything they read.
Here's what I see happening: Johnny is sitting in a common area, basically a chat lobby, waiting for his friends.
"Hey Johnny, we're going into the EX-A mission to get the uber-sword of dangling death, you coming?". "Uh no, I didnt buy that expansion, I'll just sit here and craft".
"Oh, ok, well later tonight we are going into the EX-B mission to get a smoking shield of salami and learn the new EX-B exclusive death-touch skill, you coming?".
"Well, I really have to finish crafting this rusty shinbone of tickling, and err. . uh. . I didnt buy that expansion either, but I can craft for free, and talk to my buddies as they run by me on their way to new adventures !"
Is this an extreme example ? Sure is, but can you guarantee it won't happen ? The premise of my argument has always been: If you pay for the retail box, then if the expansions become effectively required (and I know they have said they aren't actually required, there is a huge difference), then this game is no more free than any other, it's simply has a different fee structure, and perhaps might be a little cheaper in the end.
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ." - Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
No point discussing anything about Guild Wars with Gnarled, he's already made up his mind that box sales is made up money from thin air...
My glasses certainly aren't rosey. I'm speaking from a position of better knowledge than you ever will. I've had the priviledge of alpha testing this game for over 6 months now. I don't get paid, I spend my time of my own free will because the game is so much fun. Fun games sell boxes. Box sales make money. MMORPG's have always been held back by pay-to-play; I, amongst a lot of other people out there, have never paid for an MMO. I'm what you'd call a casual gamer. Casual gamers don't pay-to-play (in general).
Guild Wars is the sort of game that will appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers. I can tell you that for a fact already.
If Guild Wars fails, I will eat my words. Will you be willing to do the same if Guild Wars is a roaring success? Does it hurt you or me if it fails? It only cost you the box fee for the original game if it does flop, so why not try it? Better yet, try out the alpha demo during E3.
Originally posted by Gnarled OMG are you ever a naive jackass. I have read everything on the official website several times. I also understand (apparently a little better than you) how economics work in the mmorgp world. So you dream your little dream about playing this game for free. I'll see ya in a year or two after retail and x number of (gameplay required) expansions.
Well if you so understand how all this works its funny you have not been able to comment on how Blizzard has been able to run Diablo II online for free? Also it is clear you seem to understand nothing about how the economics works at all. Your entire post here has not one fact and not one link to support it all you do is name call. But then what do you expect from limited knowledge yet shooting your mouth off. The facts are that the game will have no monthly fee and that the expantions are not required.
Your right we will see you in a year or 2 when your ingame playing and eating your words.
Because. . . Diablo 2. . .isn't err. . .a mmorpg ? And you've made umm, 32. . . grammatical and, ahhh. .. syntax errors. . . in one post ?
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . . . . . God will be cut." - Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
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Sumer Nivek
MMORPGs played: Ultima Online, World War II Online, Star Wars Galaxies...
Currently waiting for City of Heros and World of Warcraft.
Sumer Nivek
MMORPGs played: Ultima Online, World War II Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and City of Heros...
Currently waiting for World of Warcraft.
Wow and guild wars aren't the same type of game and i will play both, but that question wow vs guild wars is stupid you are in guild wars forum then guild wars will win
post it in wow forums and then WoW will win 
personally i think wow is better than guild wars.
Gendark Knight of darkness
Guild Wars = Free.
This means less patches and tech support, and most likely more bugs on the servers. But it's free!!! Whereas WoW will be Pay to play and will be an overall more enjoyable experience since less bugs. I say you must get Guild Wars since it's free anyways
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I wouldn't bet on that being true. The alpha is already very tight in terms of how few bugs there are. I'm amazed that it runs so smooth. Also, Guild Wars won't have patches as you know them any way. They won't be spending weeks, months or years(!!!) working on patches. They'll spot a bug, fix it, and stream it to you next time you connect.
Guild Wars is exactly what I am looking for in an online rpg game. No exceedingly long treadmill, which means less downtime and constant action. And finally we have skill based pvp, not time based my spreadsheet/hours played>yours I win pvp. Its nice to know that my performance and decisions actually determine the outcome of a battle, not the clicking of my mouse button on a skill icon while im in auto attack where output is dependent solely on my level. Also I am quite interested in the fairly open grouping structure in that I don't need to be in a strict level range to viably group with my friends.
The graphics are also looking great as well. I don't mind the WoW art style, but the character models themselves are just plain bad. Any fanboy will be quick to state they aern't, regardless of the truth or not, but they are still blocky and behind the times. I don't care if good graphics lag the server or not, If Lineage 2 can do it then I don't see why WoW can't. I find it hard to believe that phantasy star online for the dreamcast five years ago had smoother character models.
WoW is hyped because of blizzard and the Warcraft series. This in no way equals a revolutionary mmorpg. And judging by their own faq and beta boards, its not much different from anything else on the market conceptually speaking. Im not saying it won't be a great if not the best current mmorpg, but its still essentially all about levels and time from a player competition perspective, which is what I care about most.
I want to cast magic missle.
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OK some misconceptions.
Firstly, someone in this thread said that because WOW has monthly fees this will guarantee more patching and better service. This is absolutely not the case.
Blizzard, being a bigger and more established company will put Joe Smith a poorly paid programmer to do the patching while their elite team works on something new. To maximise profits (which is all blizzard cares about these days) they will put the effort where the money will be.
Notice I am not saying that they will avoid patching, they will obviously have a very good patching policy but if you think that Arenanet will be lazier you're wrong.
Arenanet, because they are starting out, will want to release a very good product. They will put all their efforts in making this the best possible game. So patching will be on par with WOW at least at the beginning. Arenanet does not have a BRAND NAME to sell their product for them. They have to produce something good.
WOW will make tons of money from their loyal fanbase, fooled into thinking that Blizzard is the same company it was 3-5 years ago. People who don't know that many blizzard developers left for Arenanet and Flagship studios.
For those of us who do know what arenanet is doing and who is behind arenanet, our main mission right now is to make sure that as many people know about Guild Wars as possible. I have been bugging all my clanmates and friends who enjoyed the blizzard games (prior diablo2) to check out Guild Wars. And now they are all as impatient as I am about the game.
WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE LOOKING! If we want Guild Wars to succeed, every gamer, just like you and I, needs to inform anyone and everyone about this game.
If you, like me, are sick of not being able to play quality MMORPGs because you don't want to pay monthly, this is the ONLY opportunity we have to make a dent in the pay-as-you-play MMORPG's.
Pester all your contacts about Guild Wars, especially the ones you know who are thinking about buying WOW. Lets get the information about Guild Wars to everyone we can. Lets make this trend-breaker a success story.
Now is the perfect time for us to act. Release is still a long way off, and we can start building momentum and interest in Guild Wars. Tell your friends, make sure they visit their site, then make sure they tell their friends about it. If you have the time, start up Guild Wars Fan Sites. Convince people that paying money a month is silly when you can play a better game without the hassle of fees.
Lets get the ball rolling.
Regards,
Evil Killa
First all game expantion packs for MMoRPGs cost money which I think it total BS since your paying a monthly fee for the maintance and expantion of the game. So I am not sure where your going with your post here as your point is mute since all expantions cost money...
Second how can you possibly post about content in a game that is not only not released but is not even in Beta, other than inhouse..
Guild Wars is going to probably outsell any MMoRPG on the market just for the fact that it does not cost to play. I know I will be buying it even if it sucks just to show the industry that there 15$ a month is getting out of hand since that was suppost to include all expantions to the game. But thanks to SoE (which I hope fails with all releases) proving that you can release unfinished crap and still make money because people will pay to play a beta. Now I am not going to just pick on SoE about this as I could post on so many of the big MMoRPG's on this (Funcom AO, Mythic DAoC, Neocron, many others) but the fact remains SoE was the one that started this stuff. Now I am going to stay on topic here and just say that something needs to be done to either lower rates or stop them if your going to charge for expantions.
However are these companies really to blame for this no I don't think so since there only reason for doing this is to make money. The real fingure pointing is at the players who continue to support these actions. Lets face it if you were not paying they would be fixing the problem so you would pay.
So I will be supporting this game 100% as it will send a message that people want to see stuff change.
As for WoW we can only wait to see what bizzard does. From reports there game is going to be great but I have seen these over and over only to find there not true. Blizzard has a rep to nerf after release to the point of ruining a game eg: Diablo II Necro. Only time will tell.
I like your post it shows thought and accualy exp in MMoRPG's to know how they work behind the monitors. Blizzard putting crap noob programers on patching is exactly what they did with Diablo and DII and moved there main people on to other things. Nice to see posts about what really goes on.
That being said I am not going to agree with your motion to move now as the game is far from release and I would hate for people to loose there intrest waiting. I would rather when it comes out to have the people that believe in it go there and then tell all there friends so they get it log in and go CRAP how did I not see this comming and then they will spread the word faster.
The great thing is this game will not suffer from any other MMoRPG as everyone likes to take a break here and there from there normal game and try something new. When the new thing they try is always 100% free to play this will bring people in over and over. And if good enough to never have someone take a break from it which is not out there yet then people will just stay forever.
Point is I think starting now would not help the game and might hurt it as people that don't follow games like we do will get tired of waiting and say no when it is out.
Just my 2 cents
Ok I have posted this previously and I guess I will post it again. First and foremost I will be playing both games I have been following WOW for a long time. WOW will be another glorified treadmill with a doubt possibly one of the best with competition from EQ2 but it still is what it is and yes I have friends in the beta now who think it's a great looking game and plays well but in the end it's still a treadmill copy plain and simple.
GW is not pay to play period. I can tell you now what you see in the screenshots really are toned down as there screenshots in game it looks even better! GW will release a expansion every 6-9 months you can purchase the expansion or not choice is up to you. Let's say you did not buy expansion 2 but you bought 3 then you can play with anyone that plays original and expansion 3. You are not stuck constantly upgrading if you do not desire to.
GW is not about treadmills and level grinds it is about pure strategy and skill plain and simple. It is honestly really not a MMORPG it is in a class all it's own it's new, refreshing and unique. Currently we have been testing 4 higher level maps for a month now and I have ben playing 8+ hours a day on just those 4 maps. That's a statement within itself considering we dont have 60 missions to romp through right now just the same 4 that are constantly being updated. The game draws me in and keeps me there. In 10 years nothing has done this to me like GW plain and simple.
Again honestly we are trying to compare apples and oranges and there really needs to be no comparison against GW and WOW or any other game for that matter these are 2 different games although GW is revolutionary and ground breaking in the kind of game they are designing which I think is a well needed change to the industry. Again I state I will be playing both games, my guild will be playing both games and a matter of fact as much as I hate sony EQ2 is really looking rather nice as well. SO maybe we should troll a post about wow vs eq2 and start the bashing allover again? Please people gaming is a passion, a hobby for me and many others I been doing it a very long time and ust because I don't like X game doesn't mean that it sucks for someone else.
We are all individuals with our own tastes and opinions not everyone likes spaghetti so do we post a troll and crucify them for it? Forums are honestly full of pitiful BS anymore and it takes time I don't care to use much anymore to sift through the crap to get to the meat so to speak. I am curious if this thread is ever going to end.
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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
_______________________________________________
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Asheron's Call
HAHAHA how true it is... No one knows how good a MMoRPg will ever be even the beta tester don't know because even DAoC was great at release then 2 months after the big nerf stick came out and most people left. But then Mythic got smart and put most of it all back and they got quiet a few people to give them another shot and most have not looked back as mythic did alot better job.
AO same thing at release was really poor with way to many problems but they work there butts off and fix alot of it up within 6 months. I don't like this as it sets a very poor standard and it has.
I for one will also be playing both and I love the fact that I will be able to play 2 MMoRPG's and at most only pay for one it give me a change and lets me enjoy both. I think foir this reason GW will be the winner as everyone can play 2 for the same reason but the one the pay for can be anything. However the one they will all have to play as the free one will be GW making it the clear winner in the end.
GW will be like EQ setting the standard and will be on top for a long time in the free to play MMoRPG area.
I've been sort of doing same thing in games like Knight Online, Lineage 2, DAoC - I didn't even bother to play WoW. Trying to let my clanmates know as much as possible about Guild Wars.
But in the end, I came to a conclusion. Let the game speak for itself. We don't need to brag about it. It all comes around the circle. People are not that stupid.
As soon as they hear that this game is free of monthly fee, promote worldwide ladder ranking - harcore competitive type of gaming, hosted by super arrays of sophisticated network servers that utilize "World's Largest Independent Online Game Publisher's" infrastructure, and finally actually experience the game, they will be convinced.
Lovely rhetoric. Here's the thing: I don't buy it. The fact is, they need to generate revenue to maintain the game. If you are content with paying 6 months of monthly fees in one expansion "shot" then bully for you, but I suspect most people won't be. Gaile's last post on this matter appears to confirm my theory:
"If you think about it, our game has to compete with any other in the market, and our expansion packs need to be great in order to deserve your support. Your support in purchasing the expansion packs, and not your monthly fee, is what will keep us going. You can be sure that the game will be full of excellent content and that the costs of the Expansion Packs will be kept affordable and competitively priced."
"Competitively priced" doesn't sound to me like "subscription free".
So, Gaile, if you can step in here and, definitively and officially, state that Guild Wars will cost significantly less per annum to play to it's fullest extent, than a traditional monthly fee mmorpg like WoW or EQ2, please do so. Until then I remain unconvinced. And for those of you who still harbour the notion that this game will be "free", you truly are naive.
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ."
- Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
The game is subscription free. This has been stated time and again.
As for price tags on boxes ... "Competitively priced" says to me that the pricing will be very similar to existing game/expansion prices. Now you do the math. A standard expansion every 6 months is a lot cheaper than $10-15/month PLUS periodic expansions. Even more so: The choice is yours. If you don't want to buy the expansion, you don't have to. If you get very busy in life and can't play you don't have to worry about "wasting" money on an idle account.
The game is free they have alreay posted it and in the news release they have stated the game will have no month fee at all. It is free to play online. So I am not sure why you would think the game will have a cost. It is also listed here on MMoRPG as free to play online. So if you want a definitive and official statement then here go read this:
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html
This is the official Guild Wars site and there own responce to this question. Before posting you might accually want to read something about a game.
Why are there so many people that post messages with no knowledge at all?
Again here is a quote from the link above.. This is an official responce to the question posted on the guild wars site.
Will there be a monthly fee for Guild Wars?
The competitive price they stated is the price of the expantion packs just like EQ,AO,DAoC, and all other MMoRPGs. And if you think the money SoE is making off of the monthly fee is going into the maintainance of the game it is you thats totally naive. Sony is making a killing off EQ.
Blizzard has been running Diablo II servers for years with never charging 1 penny for there online gaming so if you think that Sony needs that money to keep it running your way off. Sony has used the millions it has made off just yours and others monthly fee to finance SWG,EQ2,Planetside, and more. It has nothing to do with keeping EQ going they can do that just off the money they make off of each expantion pack. No your monthly fee pays for them to make other games that they can then release and make even more money. Welcome to business..
http://www.guildwars.com/faq/default.html
This is the official Guild Wars site and there own responce to this question. Before posting you might accually want to read something about a game.
Why are there so many people that post messages with no knowledge at all?
Again here is a quote from the link above.. This is an official responce to the question posted on the guild wars site.
OMG are you ever a naive jackass. I have read everything on the official website several times. I also understand (apparently a little better than you) how economics work in the mmorgp world. So you dream your little dream about playing this game for free. I'll see ya in a year or two after retail and x number of (gameplay required) expansions.
Oh yeah, and why do you think Gaile hasn't piped up in here yet ?
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ."
- Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
Um, you just made yourself look like a jackass. The expansions are NOT "gameplay required" - ArenaNet have stated this numerous times, and if you'd bothered to address my reply above (I'll quote it below in case you missed it) you would have known that already.
If you are at a loss as to how ArenaNet can do this, let me explain:
1) They have engineered the game to minimise server and bandwidth costs.
2) With no monthly fee and compelling, fun gameplay, they expect to sell a lot of copies.
3) By releasing expansions that include more compelling and fun gameplay, they expect to sell a lot of copies of expansions. NB - Expansions are NOT required. You can continue to play whether you buy them or not. You can also play with (and against) players who do have the expansions.
Now compare the 12 month costs. Assume $50 to buy the original game (both MMO and Guild Wars). For a standard MMORPG assume $10/month, first month free. Assume ArenaNet release an expansion every 6 months at a competitive price (assume $35).
* 12 month costs for a standard MMO: $160 for first year. $120 for second year plus any expansion(s).
* 12 month costs for Guild Wars: $85 for first year. $70 for second year. Assumes you buy all expansions.
Clearly Guild Wars is cheaper for the end user.
So now lets look at revenue. Assume the MMO has 400,000 subscriptions current from the day the game is released. Assume Guild Wars is successful and sells 1,000,000 copies of the base game and expansions.
* 12 month revenue for MMO: $64 million first year, $48 million (plus expansions) second year.
* 12 month revenue for GW: $85 million first year, $70 million second year.
Seems to me that as long as Guild Wars is successful, they'll have plenty of income. Those numbers are deliberately skewed to make GW look bad (eg the assumption that an MMO has 400k subs from day 1 and for the full 2 years). Granted, we do not know the costs of running the servers. But given that ArenaNet have stated they have optimised the code to minimise bandwidth usage, we can assume that Guild Wars should be cheaper to run (per copy sold).
This argument is running in two threads and I am tired of it. You just more or less agreed with my point with your numbers, though they are equivalent to so much sky-writing - $155 million in revenue in 2 years. But where is that money coming from ? Must be thin air, because this game is free right ? Secondly, yes they have stated that the expansions are not required. And apparently your glasses are a little rosey and you've allowed plenty of sunshine to be blown up your ass, because you sound like someone who believes everything they read.
Here's what I see happening: Johnny is sitting in a common area, basically a chat lobby, waiting for his friends.
"Hey Johnny, we're going into the EX-A mission to get the uber-sword of dangling death, you coming?". "Uh no, I didnt buy that expansion, I'll just sit here and craft".
"Oh, ok, well later tonight we are going into the EX-B mission to get a smoking shield of salami and learn the new EX-B exclusive death-touch skill, you coming?".
"Well, I really have to finish crafting this rusty shinbone of tickling, and err. . uh. . I didnt buy that expansion either, but I can craft for free, and talk to my buddies as they run by me on their way to new adventures !"
Is this an extreme example ? Sure is, but can you guarantee it won't happen ? The premise of my argument has always been: If you pay for the retail box, then if the expansions become effectively required (and I know they have said they aren't actually required, there is a huge difference), then this game is no more free than any other, it's simply has a different fee structure, and perhaps might be a little cheaper in the end.
"And by the way, did anyone ever tell you that you look exactly like Garfield but run over and skinned and then someone threw an ugly Ferragamo sweater over you before they rushed you to the vet ?. . ."
- Brett Easton Ellis, American Psycho
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
No point discussing anything about Guild Wars with Gnarled, he's already made up his mind that box sales is made up money from thin air...
My glasses certainly aren't rosey. I'm speaking from a position of better knowledge than you ever will. I've had the priviledge of alpha testing this game for over 6 months now. I don't get paid, I spend my time of my own free will because the game is so much fun. Fun games sell boxes. Box sales make money. MMORPG's have always been held back by pay-to-play; I, amongst a lot of other people out there, have never paid for an MMO. I'm what you'd call a casual gamer. Casual gamers don't pay-to-play (in general).
Guild Wars is the sort of game that will appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers. I can tell you that for a fact already.
If Guild Wars fails, I will eat my words. Will you be willing to do the same if Guild Wars is a roaring success? Does it hurt you or me if it fails? It only cost you the box fee for the original game if it does flop, so why not try it? Better yet, try out the alpha demo during E3.
Well if you so understand how all this works its funny you have not been able to comment on how Blizzard has been able to run Diablo II online for free? Also it is clear you seem to understand nothing about how the economics works at all. Your entire post here has not one fact and not one link to support it all you do is name call. But then what do you expect from limited knowledge yet shooting your mouth off. The facts are that the game will have no monthly fee and that the expantions are not required.
Your right we will see you in a year or 2 when your ingame playing and eating your words.
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . .
. . . God will be cut."
- Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak