For the first time in along time, I would like to personally thank SOE for saving Vanguard.. and before I get flamed by whoever this is IMO... Set the record straight and know that SOE saved Vanguard... and NO I dont work for SOE or any other company, they deserver our thanks for giving us a WORLD not some little instanced pos.. thats right a World to explore and adding to it regularly... Yes we still get occational bugs but what game out there DOES'NT have them??? For the first time I can say I have the feeling of when i first started gaming over 10 years ago.. I cant wait to get home and log in and play.. While YOU may have a different experience I am having the time of my life!!!! whens the last time you logged into VG??? I was in beta and the game was not even playable for me.. but now it is totally different... Everyplace i go i am in amazement and its like a painting that i can see far far away!!! and it just amazes me that more people are not here.. Seradon is my server and its the larger of the others..
If you want to bash a game go ahead, bash a company you can do that also.. but I am sure there are alot of reasons companies do the things they do.. I am glad that this games population is getting larger and larger and it is do to the help of SOE..
I have played all the latest MMO's and there isnt anything Massive about them.. Try Vanguard if you want massive.. I started playing games when Asherons Call came out and when EQ came out and nothing to date compares... cheers SOE and I hope you continue to gather people from all around... Kwosh aka Kibles
For the first time in along time, I would like to personally thank SOE for saving Vanguard.. and before I get flamed by whoever this is IMO... Set the record straight and know that SOE saved Vanguard... and NO I dont work for SOE or any other company, they deserver our thanks for giving us a WORLD not some little instanced pos.. thats right a World to explore and adding to it regularly... Yes we still get occational bugs but what game out there DOES'NT have them??? For the first time I can say I have the feeling of when i first started gaming over 10 years ago.. I cant wait to get home and log in and play.. While YOU may have a different experience I am having the time of my life!!!! whens the last time you logged into VG??? I was in beta and the game was not even playable for me.. but now it is totally different... Everyplace i go i am in amazement and its like a painting that i can see far far away!!! and it just amazes me that more people are not here.. Seradon is my server and its the larger of the others.. If you want to bash a game go ahead, bash a company you can do that also.. but I am sure there are alot of reasons companies do the things they do.. I am glad that this games population is getting larger and larger and it is do to the help of SOE.. I have played all the latest MMO's and there isnt anything Massive about them.. Try Vanguard if you want massive.. I started playing games when Asherons Call came out and when EQ came out and nothing to date compares... cheers SOE and I hope you continue to gather people from all around... Kwosh aka Kibles
I recently returned to Vanguard after a year's absence in June this year. I have to say that ..I am grudgingly changing my opinion of SOE, when I first heard about the takeover of SIGIL and Vanguard, I lost all hope that the potential in this game would EVER be realized.
I am tentatively trusting in SOE to fix whats wrong, thus far they seem to have done alot of work on the stability...still some broken quest lines there, and some simple bugs that are remedied by relogging.
I also hear there are new features coming such as new character models (hoping for new character animations along with that..but we'll see) a trial island: Isle of Dawn, so folks can have a painless looksee at what the state of the game is NOW, another raid zone..which is the revised Pantheon of Ancients, and...hints of fishing and new galleons on the horizon. Oh and some of the character customization that was removed in order to allow helms will be returning around about the same time as the new character models.
It pained me originally to cancel my account, I had been a closed beta tester and in on release as well.
The other thing ongoing was the massive negativity before and after launch, kind of brought the whole thing down for me, and drove me away from the game. But I have kept an eye on Vanguard from the outside looking in, I resubbed in June this year, and have hopes of good things to come.
Just want to mention that the overall community seems to have improved now, more helpful people in General Chat..which is great, VG certainly needs to have a welcoming community after all its been through over this past while.
Like I said, some grudging respect to SOE ..I think ...that THIS time they are making an effort to work on things that are important to the fanbase ..unlike SWG etc..back in the day.
Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad. Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years. Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy. Vanguard Saga of Heroes was Developed in 15 months....
Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta. Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control. Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead. So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better. I have a better question...Brad had Ties to SOE because of Everquest. Why didn't SOE initially fund this project? inquiring minds want to know...
MS wanted Vanguard to be VISTA ONLY , this is the main reason why Brad left. MS wanted to use Vanguard to promote Vista ( to try and force people to upgrade to latest and greatest pile of crap o.s. ) SOE is the one responsible for crappy launch of VG. They knew that the game NEEDED more time before being launched, but they saw the potential that VG had going for it. They also knew that Brad didn't see eye to eye with them in running an MMO (i.e. quality/quantity) SOE has deadlines, and they will do whatever it takes to make those deadlines ( cutting out content.) They pushed the launch date to insure that they could in time take over full control of VG. In time SOE will come out with crappy expansions (EQ PoP and all after) that are nothing but raid content, and no real genuine thought put into them. Who cares about making a good quality MMO lets just throw out a bunch of crap to keep people hooked, and keep the money rolling in.
Perhaps this is where I should write about the nature of my own discontent towards SOE. First off, I bought my Vanguard game on file planet, and paid the original $35.95 for it on that website. After I downloaded the game and finally got online, I was incapable of maneuvering through the SOE account setup pages in a way that convinced them that I had already bought the game (and that I did not fraudulently duplicate my purchase of it off another gamer). In the end, I had to pay another 35.95 just to activate the account in order to play the silly game. After all was said and done, I paid approximately 72 dollars just to try this game out (plus the one month subscription fee).
Then came the big surprise... that SOE had designed yet another lemon. Don't get me wrong, I could tell the graphics were top notch and the sound was technologically kosher, but the content just wasn't there. As an art lover, have you ever spent a hundred dollars to get into the MOMA in New York City only to find out that the exhibit on display is a large collection of Duchamp's less famous readymades (toilet seats and urinals)? Though the urine stains look realistic, and the mildew smells extraordinarily real, (and despite the intellectually aloof atmosphere that surrounds) you can't help but feel like you were the victim of a confidence scam or an elaborate heist. You may perhaps say in response, "What is this dimwit talking about now?" Oh... I so easily forget... I am in the presence of a majority of philistines here... well... anyway... Let me try to put into terms we all can understand. In other words, SOE has just taken another dump on the pavement and then spray painted it with gold enamel to make its marketing failure look glorious.
If the programmers merely see this project as a nine to five grind, then it will show through in the nature of their work; but if they actually enjoy their job and the products they produce, everyone who plays the game will realize this automatically (and the interrest will be contagious). It is for this reason that I surmise that the whole SOE team must work in a bomb shelter and have cruel taskmasters as supervisors... for I can not imagine any other scenario where they could produce such a bland and uninviting experience. SOE... the gaming industry is changing... come out of the dark ages and spin up to the apropriate frequency.
3. When you elect to activate your full subscription access, you will not be charged to purchase VG. You will only be charged the monthly fee. You will then initiate the full download of VG which is over 18Gigs in size.
Doing this method you will not pay anything except the monthly fee. No purchasing of VG is required anymore.
GonesoloCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 70
Downloaded the Isle of Dawn trial over the weekend.
Started to play yesterday. not to sure about game atm. However was nicely surprised on the support end. I had an issue with a quest I couldn't complete. logged a support ticket and got a nice and quick response.
Game seems ok, graphics are nice. Quests are ok (usuall mmo fare I suppose) but I don't know game seems a little "dull" but I've still another while till trial runs out so I'll play until trial is over then make my decision. (but eek 18GB d/l surely that can't be right)
Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad. Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years. Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy. Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta. Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control. Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead. So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better.
First off, you made a mistake in number 4. They didn't need a new financial backer. They bought all the rights from MS without any help from SOE. But they did need someone with lots of experience to publish the game for them. Since Brad had friends at SOE, that was the natural choice.
Second, let's take a look at MS's experience with MMOs. Now, there may be more, but I only know of three MS MMOs. The first was AC. It was a decent game, but always overshadowed by EQ and UO. People always say EQ did so well because it was the only game on the market, but that wasn't true. UO and AC still existed, but UO wasn't 3d, and AC is often either dismissed or forgotten. Second was AC2. It is on the extremely short list of MMOs that have actually had to be shut down. Third was Mythica, but MS got cold feet on that one and killed it (possibly because of Vanguard). So it isn't like MS has some spectatular track record when it comes to MMOs. My guess is they wanted the game out faster, and possibly that they wanted it on the X-Box some time in the near future. I don't think they tried to directly alter the game, but by saying they wanted it out sooner rather than letting the beta run it's full course, that means content would have to be cut to make the deadline and the game would be released in a condition that many other games are being released now days, in a payed beta state.
Actually you have a good point. I was in the beta and when you looked through the files in the install directory there were several files with references to the xbox in them. I remember someone asking about if they were going to make the game run on the xbox but the answer was either no or they couldn't say. I also remember some of this vista only talk on the beta boards. So there may very well have been some arm twisting going on...
However I don't think that sigil said no we won't do this and pulled out. I think it is more likely that sigil said that this couldn't be done in any fast time frame and MS got impatient and decided it was gonna take too much to get it done and decided to pull out. Then I think they made some arrangement with MS to buy back ownership of Vanguard rather then just shut it down.
Downloaded the Isle of Dawn trial over the weekend. Started to play yesterday. not to sure about game atm. However was nicely surprised on the support end. I had an issue with a quest I couldn't complete. logged a support ticket and got a nice and quick response. Game seems ok, graphics are nice. Quests are ok (usuall mmo fare I suppose) but I don't know game seems a little "dull" but I've still another while till trial runs out so I'll play until trial is over then make my decision. (but eek 18GB d/l surely that can't be right)
The trial shouldn't be 18gb but the full game is. The game is a very large world and the graphic assets are pretty good quality. Combat in the game starts rather plain but after you level up you start to get some exposure to the depth of it. Unfortunately lvl 10 only scratchs the surface and most classes aren't really full up on abilities till around lvl 20.
Definition: "Censorship is the control of speech and other forms of human expression."
You, my troll, are very funny.... the fact they allow you to post shows that they don't censor.... the fact they make you post to a specific thread is not censorship.... it is no different than requiring a permit to assemle and protest in your local municipality.
I hate you SoE, i always did. You took years of my time on a game that is going to die, your not going to sell it, Vanguard is the best mmorpg and your going to bury it alive like it never existed. I feel physically abused and spitted in the face a thousand times for being one of your customers, i will NEVER play a SoE game.
After all this time the game still exists. When will SOE make a decision about it? Hell even talk about it. Seems they have disowned it and ignore any references to it like they are embarassed it exists. Kind of like its the bastard child of the family they hide in the cellar and refuse to talk about, but don't have the balls to kill and brick up behind a false wall.
Originally posted by Agricola1 Bah! I give it 6 months before Brad sells out and does a runner, leaving everyone in the lurch at the total mercy of the evil $medley. Fanbois have been warned.
And in six months you will be here saying the same damn thing (or hiding out when it doesn't happen).
I love these old threads sometimes. Funny to see who was right and who was so very wrong. Agricola1 gave Brad way more time than it took for him to sell. It only took 4 months.
I haven't trusted Brad or anything he does for a rather long time now. Even before Vanguard.
Tried Vanguard. One of my brothers did too, but he hated it so bad, he gave me his account. I was already used to betas. Real betas, not the marketing hype some many of the 'betas' are these days. My opinion, my brother was right.
Sure, it had some neat ideas, one of which I actually liked. However, pretty much everything else was substandard even for that time period. Up until release I kept at it, hoping it would get better, but it didn't. How is it doing these days? Honestly I don't know, and no longer care. It's somebody elses mangy sick mutt that I don't really want to deal with.
If you like Vanguard, good for you, I hope you have fun since that's why we play games anyhow. However, I won't be joining you in that game as I've found many others to provide a far more enjoyable experience for me.
Pulling the plug was the smartest thing Microsoft did. They went into the sigil office and saw how disorganized and non goal oriented the employees were. Then they took a look at the actual game after years of development and saw what a crapshoot it was. It was obvious from there what direction to take and I agreed with them.
Brad cannot lead others in any large capacity, he can't even program in the modern age. He's a think tank guy and few surpass him in that regard. The problem is, he insists on being anything more then that.
Comments
I love SOE
SOE didn't ruin Vanguard so why hate them? they saved it.
For the first time in along time, I would like to personally thank SOE for saving Vanguard.. and before I get flamed by whoever this is IMO... Set the record straight and know that SOE saved Vanguard... and NO I dont work for SOE or any other company, they deserver our thanks for giving us a WORLD not some little instanced pos.. thats right a World to explore and adding to it regularly... Yes we still get occational bugs but what game out there DOES'NT have them??? For the first time I can say I have the feeling of when i first started gaming over 10 years ago.. I cant wait to get home and log in and play.. While YOU may have a different experience I am having the time of my life!!!! whens the last time you logged into VG??? I was in beta and the game was not even playable for me.. but now it is totally different... Everyplace i go i am in amazement and its like a painting that i can see far far away!!! and it just amazes me that more people are not here.. Seradon is my server and its the larger of the others..
If you want to bash a game go ahead, bash a company you can do that also.. but I am sure there are alot of reasons companies do the things they do.. I am glad that this games population is getting larger and larger and it is do to the help of SOE..
I have played all the latest MMO's and there isnt anything Massive about them.. Try Vanguard if you want massive.. I started playing games when Asherons Call came out and when EQ came out and nothing to date compares... cheers SOE and I hope you continue to gather people from all around... Kwosh aka Kibles
I recently returned to Vanguard after a year's absence in June this year. I have to say that ..I am grudgingly changing my opinion of SOE, when I first heard about the takeover of SIGIL and Vanguard, I lost all hope that the potential in this game would EVER be realized.
I am tentatively trusting in SOE to fix whats wrong, thus far they seem to have done alot of work on the stability...still some broken quest lines there, and some simple bugs that are remedied by relogging.
I also hear there are new features coming such as new character models (hoping for new character animations along with that..but we'll see) a trial island: Isle of Dawn, so folks can have a painless looksee at what the state of the game is NOW, another raid zone..which is the revised Pantheon of Ancients, and...hints of fishing and new galleons on the horizon. Oh and some of the character customization that was removed in order to allow helms will be returning around about the same time as the new character models.
It pained me originally to cancel my account, I had been a closed beta tester and in on release as well.
The other thing ongoing was the massive negativity before and after launch, kind of brought the whole thing down for me, and drove me away from the game. But I have kept an eye on Vanguard from the outside looking in, I resubbed in June this year, and have hopes of good things to come.
Just want to mention that the overall community seems to have improved now, more helpful people in General Chat..which is great, VG certainly needs to have a welcoming community after all its been through over this past while.
Like I said, some grudging respect to SOE ..I think ...that THIS time they are making an effort to work on things that are important to the fanbase ..unlike SWG etc..back in the day.
We'll see what happens.
Cend
MS wanted Vanguard to be VISTA ONLY , this is the main reason why Brad left. MS wanted to use Vanguard to promote Vista ( to try and force people to upgrade to latest and greatest pile of crap o.s. ) SOE is the one responsible for crappy launch of VG. They knew that the game NEEDED more time before being launched, but they saw the potential that VG had going for it. They also knew that Brad didn't see eye to eye with them in running an MMO (i.e. quality/quantity) SOE has deadlines, and they will do whatever it takes to make those deadlines ( cutting out content.) They pushed the launch date to insure that they could in time take over full control of VG. In time SOE will come out with crappy expansions (EQ PoP and all after) that are nothing but raid content, and no real genuine thought put into them. Who cares about making a good quality MMO lets just throw out a bunch of crap to keep people hooked, and keep the money rolling in.
I was thinking of trying this game until I learned SOE is involved. Having been screwed with SWG long ago, I think I'll pass.
Why would I trust Sony ever again?
Perhaps this is where I should write about the nature of my own discontent towards SOE. First off, I bought my Vanguard game on file planet, and paid the original $35.95 for it on that website. After I downloaded the game and finally got online, I was incapable of maneuvering through the SOE account setup pages in a way that convinced them that I had already bought the game (and that I did not fraudulently duplicate my purchase of it off another gamer). In the end, I had to pay another 35.95 just to activate the account in order to play the silly game. After all was said and done, I paid approximately 72 dollars just to try this game out (plus the one month subscription fee).
Then came the big surprise... that SOE had designed yet another lemon. Don't get me wrong, I could tell the graphics were top notch and the sound was technologically kosher, but the content just wasn't there. As an art lover, have you ever spent a hundred dollars to get into the MOMA in New York City only to find out that the exhibit on display is a large collection of Duchamp's less famous readymades (toilet seats and urinals)? Though the urine stains look realistic, and the mildew smells extraordinarily real, (and despite the intellectually aloof atmosphere that surrounds) you can't help but feel like you were the victim of a confidence scam or an elaborate heist. You may perhaps say in response, "What is this dimwit talking about now?" Oh... I so easily forget... I am in the presence of a majority of philistines here... well... anyway... Let me try to put into terms we all can understand. In other words, SOE has just taken another dump on the pavement and then spray painted it with gold enamel to make its marketing failure look glorious.
If the programmers merely see this project as a nine to five grind, then it will show through in the nature of their work; but if they actually enjoy their job and the products they produce, everyone who plays the game will realize this automatically (and the interrest will be contagious). It is for this reason that I surmise that the whole SOE team must work in a bomb shelter and have cruel taskmasters as supervisors... for I can not imagine any other scenario where they could produce such a bland and uninviting experience. SOE... the gaming industry is changing... come out of the dark ages and spin up to the apropriate frequency.
Glad to see another addition to VG. Secondly, if you are new to VG and want to subscribe, I reccmmend the following path.
1. Download the Isle of Dawn Free Trial here. http://vanguard.station.sony.com/isleofdawn/
2. Enjoy the free 14 days.
3. When you elect to activate your full subscription access, you will not be charged to purchase VG. You will only be charged the monthly fee. You will then initiate the full download of VG which is over 18Gigs in size.
Doing this method you will not pay anything except the monthly fee. No purchasing of VG is required anymore.
Downloaded the Isle of Dawn trial over the weekend.
Started to play yesterday. not to sure about game atm. However was nicely surprised on the support end. I had an issue with a quest I couldn't complete. logged a support ticket and got a nice and quick response.
Game seems ok, graphics are nice. Quests are ok (usuall mmo fare I suppose) but I don't know game seems a little "dull" but I've still another while till trial runs out so I'll play until trial is over then make my decision. (but eek 18GB d/l surely that can't be right)
Second, let's take a look at MS's experience with MMOs. Now, there may be more, but I only know of three MS MMOs. The first was AC. It was a decent game, but always overshadowed by EQ and UO. People always say EQ did so well because it was the only game on the market, but that wasn't true. UO and AC still existed, but UO wasn't 3d, and AC is often either dismissed or forgotten. Second was AC2. It is on the extremely short list of MMOs that have actually had to be shut down. Third was Mythica, but MS got cold feet on that one and killed it (possibly because of Vanguard). So it isn't like MS has some spectatular track record when it comes to MMOs. My guess is they wanted the game out faster, and possibly that they wanted it on the X-Box some time in the near future. I don't think they tried to directly alter the game, but by saying they wanted it out sooner rather than letting the beta run it's full course, that means content would have to be cut to make the deadline and the game would be released in a condition that many other games are being released now days, in a payed beta state.
Actually you have a good point. I was in the beta and when you looked through the files in the install directory there were several files with references to the xbox in them. I remember someone asking about if they were going to make the game run on the xbox but the answer was either no or they couldn't say. I also remember some of this vista only talk on the beta boards. So there may very well have been some arm twisting going on...
However I don't think that sigil said no we won't do this and pulled out. I think it is more likely that sigil said that this couldn't be done in any fast time frame and MS got impatient and decided it was gonna take too much to get it done and decided to pull out. Then I think they made some arrangement with MS to buy back ownership of Vanguard rather then just shut it down.
---
Ethion
The trial shouldn't be 18gb but the full game is. The game is a very large world and the graphic assets are pretty good quality. Combat in the game starts rather plain but after you level up you start to get some exposure to the depth of it. Unfortunately lvl 10 only scratchs the surface and most classes aren't really full up on abilities till around lvl 20.
---
Ethion
You, my troll, are very funny.... the fact they allow you to post shows that they don't censor.... the fact they make you post to a specific thread is not censorship.... it is no different than requiring a permit to assemle and protest in your local municipality.
I'd like to celebrate the new year by complaining about SOE. I hates you.
I hate you SoE, i always did. You took years of my time on a game that is going to die, your not going to sell it, Vanguard is the best mmorpg and your going to bury it alive like it never existed. I feel physically abused and spitted in the face a thousand times for being one of your customers, i will NEVER play a SoE game.
After all this time the game still exists. When will SOE make a decision about it? Hell even talk about it. Seems they have disowned it and ignore any references to it like they are embarassed it exists. Kind of like its the bastard child of the family they hide in the cellar and refuse to talk about, but don't have the balls to kill and brick up behind a false wall.
~Wolf
I love these old threads sometimes. Funny to see who was right and who was so very wrong. Agricola1 gave Brad way more time than it took for him to sell. It only took 4 months.
I haven't trusted Brad or anything he does for a rather long time now. Even before Vanguard.
Tried Vanguard. One of my brothers did too, but he hated it so bad, he gave me his account. I was already used to betas. Real betas, not the marketing hype some many of the 'betas' are these days. My opinion, my brother was right.
Sure, it had some neat ideas, one of which I actually liked. However, pretty much everything else was substandard even for that time period. Up until release I kept at it, hoping it would get better, but it didn't. How is it doing these days? Honestly I don't know, and no longer care. It's somebody elses mangy sick mutt that I don't really want to deal with.
If you like Vanguard, good for you, I hope you have fun since that's why we play games anyhow. However, I won't be joining you in that game as I've found many others to provide a far more enjoyable experience for me.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
Pulling the plug was the smartest thing Microsoft did. They went into the sigil office and saw how disorganized and non goal oriented the employees were. Then they took a look at the actual game after years of development and saw what a crapshoot it was. It was obvious from there what direction to take and I agreed with them.
Brad cannot lead others in any large capacity, he can't even program in the modern age. He's a think tank guy and few surpass him in that regard. The problem is, he insists on being anything more then that.