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SWG EMU Discussion - read before posting
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qfe, thanks for explaining further.
For the Horde!
How about it?
Using your logic the entire discussion of star wars galaxies should have been locked a long time ago. I for one would rather you excerise forum moderation on the rule violations then to blanketly ban a topic from discussion. Your method dispite the noble intention of community relation will make posters and readers feel like they cannot discuss openly the games if a topic is at all controversial. While EMU's operate in a grey area it is something for gamers to have honest conversations about the legality and consquences of gaming on an emu server. I have seen some rather interesting posts about the experiences this community has had on other emu's. I would never have had the oppurtunity to learn this if the moderation policy you're set to deploy was around a few weeks ago.
This site and others like it allow those of us displaced and kicked aside by SOE to gather and communicate about developments with our very loved star wars mmo. For us the progress of the "duck" and what is occurring is important. I don't track the ducks website. I rely on other posters here to bring the news of what is happening. Your stance will really hurt this reader who now faces the daunting task of finding another mmo source that allows a public forum and the posting of emu threads so I can figure out what is going on and the ongoing rumors.
Its a shame you are so ready to throw all that away because you dont want to moderate the topic.
ROFLwaffles. Suprised I didn't get squelched for defending us.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Wow, you go out of town for the weekend and all kinds of hell breaks loose.
So, no more discussion of Easterm Michigan, umm...ok. One of the previous posters had a good point though stradden, if discussing Eastern Michigan University is illegal because it causes flames and rule breaking, to follow along with that line of thinking you would have to shut down the whole SWG forum (please dont do that
).
So just as a quick recap: apparently this weekend there were some over the top EMU threads; the EMU devs came over and started bithcing (what about?); LA is somehow involved (huh?); and Juliio bitchslapped Smed for running away to belize with their lovechild. What else did I miss?
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
while i respect your intentions, i have to say, if you want to have a website based on respect and honesty, you should outlaw any discussion of the NGE. it was developed and created in a fraudulent manner, its existence was denied in a fraudulent manner, then it was released in a fraudulent manner, and insults the intelligence and accomplishments of every true SWG player and/or fan.
other than this one issue, i believe you run a tight ship here and enjoy visiting often....
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
If you arent allowed to discuss the emu here, there are a number of sites availible for that, including the official one and the numerous server sites. It's not the end of the world, you can still talk about it if you must, just not here.
Besides, for those calling for an Emu sticky, I think this is kinda it.
For the Horde!
Period.
Now it does break most companies EULA, which is a very weak contract between the gamer and the provider. At MOST you can get banned from playing the game.
To recap... Gold selling is NOT Illegal... just against company policy.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
This is their site and their rules, if you do not agree thats cool we all have different views on things but to flame its staff and moderators is out of line. If I were the mods here I would have made this stickie a locked topic. I think maybe they should not have made it into a discussion.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Timeout:
Goldfarming and CCF is illegal and SOE does not allow it -- (now, what we should make clear here is that SELLING THE CREDITS ONLINE OVER PAYPAL OR SOME OTHER MEANS IS) --
Let's call a spade a spade here. Sure doing the act with accounts from Taiwan or whatever is legal but selling them as a third party for CASH that SOE does not get a part of is, due to the property rights.. odd that it's ok to advertise that and not talk about somthing that is no different in terms of being wrong or not.
Sure you can talk about it elsewhere but as a Star Wars forums one would of thought since it was a hot topic and having to do with SWG in most ways it would be ok... afterall it should not be a threat right?
If selling credits is so illegal, why are 40 thousand auctions on ebay? Doesnt Ebay have some sort of accountablility to not sell illegal items? How can credit sellers advertise on legit sites like mmorpg.com? Why arent the selling sites shut down? Why do companies like Blizzard or SOE only ban accounts, not take legal action? Im really curious as to why all this happens if it is illegal.
Dude please do not defend this-- you will lose, it's illegal.
SOE cannot make a profit -- it is thier intel rights... in fact this is no different then the emu in most respects actually.
Credit selling is worse in most respects it's 3rd world countries or some people in that type of atmosphere that are used for alot of it. Getting paid 1.00 a hour to do this.
Again, let's not play symantics... Ebay is by all means no legal super power and has never been. This would be no different then someone selling Jedi back in the day-- if SOE found out your name they have been known to end that account. They do and never will condone it. Your best off trying not to defend it at this point.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
This is their site and their rules, if you do not agree thats cool we all have different views on things but to flame its staff and moderators is out of line. If I were the mods here I would have made this stickie a locked topic. I think maybe they should not have made it into a discussion.
Ok I guess we need to be more clear on this then. It is not legal according to SOEs contract and AGREEMENT THAT IS LEGAL AND A BINDING CONTRACT by all means noted as a "legal" format and document according to the legal dept.
So I guess we should say it is NOT LEGAL according to MOST games ONLINE AGREEMENT THAT IS A LEGAL agreement binding you to not doing so when you type your name or sign in.
So again.. the act there of is not illegal BASED ON THE GAMES rules and agreements. SHeewww... You guys and petty details and wording lol. The NGE has fried us all thats for sure.
DO THIS.. Call SOE, ask them if it is OK for you to buy some credits online for your account if you have any questions -THIS WAY you can hear it from them and not us...lol (Bit of advice though) DO NOT TELL THEM YOUR NAME OR LOGIN UNTIL YOU ASK..lol...
I do not think anyone got flamed though, people need to read between the lines sometimes and grow a pair.. there is nothing wrong with questions when they are sincere. I do think that there is more underlying issues at play here though.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Dude please do not defend this-- you will lose, it's illegal.
SOE cannot make a profit -- it is thier intel rights... in fact this is no different then the emu in most respects actually.
Credit selling is worse in most respects it's 3rd world countries or some people in that type of atmosphere that are used for alot of it. Getting paid 1.00 a hour to do this.
Again, let's not play symantics... Ebay is by all means no legal super power and has never been. This would be no different then someone selling Jedi back in the day-- if SOE found out your name they have been known to end that account. They do and never will condone it. Your best off trying not to defend it at this point.
Im not a dude
And im not trying to defend credit selling, I think its unethical and I've never done it. At the very least you are ruining game economies that people are paying real money to play. At the most you are supporting slave labor in China. It's just bad all around.
I think it's a different issue than the emu, though. If you are going to call mmorpg.com hypocritical for allowing credit selling adds, then i think it should be said that credit seilling is not "illegal" and there has never been any legal action against it that I know of. Emus are another story. even if you think what they are doing is prefectly fine and legal, there are others who disagree. Like Stradden said, its grey.
For the Horde!
This is their site and their rules, if you do not agree thats cool we all have different views on things but to flame its staff and moderators is out of line. If I were the mods here I would have made this stickie a locked topic. I think maybe they should not have made it into a discussion.
Ok I guess we need to be more clear on this then. It is not legal according to SOEs contract and AGREEMENT THAT IS LEGAL AND A BINDING CONTRACT by all means noted as a "legal" format and document according to the legal dept.
So I guess we should say it is NOT LEGAL according to MOST games ONLINE AGREEMENT THAT IS A LEGAL agreement binding you to not doing so when you type your name or sign in.
So again.. the act there of is not illegal BASED ON THE GAMES rules and agreements. SHeewww... You guys and petty details and wording lol. The NGE has fried us all thats for sure.
DO THIS.. Call SOE, ask them if it is OK for you to buy some credits online for your account if you have any questions -THIS WAY you can hear it from them and not us...lol (Bit of advice though) DO NOT TELL THEM YOUR NAME OR LOGIN UNTIL YOU ASK..lol...
I do not think anyone got flamed though, people need to read between the lines sometimes and grow a pair.. there is nothing wrong with questions when they are sincere. I do think that there is more underlying issues at play here though.
You're using "Illegal" incorrectly, that's all. Illegal means that you have broken a law. A contract, no matter how flimsy or strong, is not a law. At MOST you can be in "Breech of contract".
Those that sell or buy gold are in breach of their EULA, and that is why the game companies can ban them from playing. But that's all. It's like a restraunt with a "no hats" policy asking you to remove your hat or leave. They can refuse service if you don't follow their rules, and you agree to folow their rules when you click on the EULA.
No, Congress hasn't made a "ubaigold" law and they never will. Hell, some of thim think the internets is a bunch of tubes For Frak's Sake.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
This is their site and their rules, if you do not agree thats cool we all have different views on things but to flame its staff and moderators is out of line. If I were the mods here I would have made this stickie a locked topic. I think maybe they should not have made it into a discussion.
Ok I guess we need to be more clear on this then. It is not legal according to SOEs contract and AGREEMENT THAT IS LEGAL AND A BINDING CONTRACT by all means noted as a "legal" format and document according to the legal dept.
So I guess we should say it is NOT LEGAL according to MOST games ONLINE AGREEMENT THAT IS A LEGAL agreement binding you to not doing so when you type your name or sign in.
So again.. the act there of is not illegal BASED ON THE GAMES rules and agreements. SHeewww... You guys and petty details and wording lol. The NGE has fried us all thats for sure.
DO THIS.. Call SOE, ask them if it is OK for you to buy some credits online for your account if you have any questions -THIS WAY you can hear it from them and not us...lol (Bit of advice though) DO NOT TELL THEM YOUR NAME OR LOGIN UNTIL YOU ASK..lol...
I do not think anyone got flamed though, people need to read between the lines sometimes and grow a pair.. there is nothing wrong with questions when they are sincere. I do think that there is more underlying issues at play here though.
You're using "Illegal" incorrectly, that's all. Illegal means that you have broken a law. A contract, no matter how flimsy or strong, is not a law. At MOST you can be in "Breech of contract".
Those that sell or buy gold are in breach of their EULA, and that is why the game companies can ban them from playing. But that's all. It's like a restraunt with a "no hats" policy asking you to remove your hat or leave. They can refuse service if you don't follow their rules, and you agree to folow their rules when you click on the EULA.
No, Congress hasn't made a "ubaigold" law and they never will. Hell, some of thim think the internets is a bunch of tubes For Frak's Sake.
I see what your saying, but as I just asked two lawyers in the office.. the term "Legal" is the phrase used in this sense. The agreement you accept is a (binding legal one) as they just said. I did ask them how vauge is that..lol , The one guy laughed and said that actually any contract you agree to or sign can be considered a "LEGAL" document perse. (so the phrase and term is used in a court of law correctly) -- For instance, my company sells the GIANT ass machines that make or create the box and carton that LA uses for thier products (:( yes I know -- dont get me started) Now then, when they spec it out and sign on the line that (THATS THE MODEL THEY WANT) -- then it is a legal and binding agreement. SO then here comes the result of that... IT is a legal statement and agreement that they chose that particular machine, a judge would back that in the case of a backing out due to them changing thier mind after we brought a 2 million dollar machine here for them.
Stealing or reselling intel property in any fasion will 9 times out of ten get you in trouble, UNLESS it is parody i.e. making fun of... (This is not in this case). So will a judge throw you in jail for it?? Naa, but he can let SOE fine the crap out of you and then own you. I understand the term and do understand what your saying but that agreement is a legal one and a approved legal document.
But see the legal mumbo jumbo is still just that... a lot of paperwork and crap. I do know people that did get the ole ban stick from the game though buying credits... they did lose thier account.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
What Shayde and other are saying is that its not a criminal activity. There is no federal or state (in US) criminal law against gold farming.
What the others are saying is that you have agreed to a contract and by violating it you could be brought into court (civil I guess) and face some penalty.
So I guess based on how you were looking at the word "illegal" would decide whether you thought gold farming was or not.
So really everyone is right.
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
Hope I am not breaking any rules by posting this. If I am it wasn't intentional, but .... Well Guys I logged into the SWGEmu.
Yup I reinstalled SWG and downloaded all the patches to get me to Patch 12.1 or maybe it was Patch 13 ... I think. That is where the game will run at .... IF it ever gets completed.
I been posting here for a while now so most everyone should know me. I love SWG and HATE $LA and $OE.
I argued about the whether or not a SWGEmu would ever stay up after the Federal Appeals Court handed down that ruling. Well one is up, I was on it. There was more people in Theed than what you will find in the game now. How sad.
Now to what i saw. Or maybe what i didn't see.
What i did see:
All in all ... it is going to be a VERY long road before this comes even close to being finished. I am VERY impressed with what the Emu guys have done thus far.
I just hope it isn't all for naught. As Stradden has pointed out, this is a gray area at best. I know what was said in the decision that was handed down by the Federal Appeals Couts regarding a WoW Emu. That decision should end all Emus located in the USA.
However, I don't really agree with the decision 100%. Example why: Unix came into existance in the late 60's. Linux was developed in the mid 80's. Linux was coded/created EXTREMELY close to Unix, to the point that they use the same commands. There was a lawsuit between the people that developed Unix and the Linux people. This lawsuit was initiated in 2003 and in 2004 a decision was handed down that essentially dismissed the case. Linux won.
I am not a lawyer nor have I researched the decision ... but I find this interesting.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
The goofy thing is the ruling handed down by the 8th circuit (St. Louis) only applies to the 8th circuit area. California (SOE headquarters / LEC Headwuarters) falls iwthin the 9th circuit, and it depends on where the individuals live who are working on the EMU. They can use the 8th circuit ruling as a precedent, and thats about it. The court ruled in favor of both Federal Laws (state law wont apply since it corsses state lines and uses the internet). The 8th circuit upheld both, the Fair Use Law AND the DMRA..
Sadly enough if it goes to the 9th circuit then we are screwed (commonly refered to as the 9th circus of appeals.)
Now.. lawsuits aside, hopefully LEC will get the hint that many people want a pre cu version, and do something about it. Provided the phone call was true between the EMU Devs and LEC hopefully something good will come from it.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Rofl, I use Unix right now on one of my servers.. yeah the one thats been up for 265 days.
I use SuSe as well... At least they are using the good stuff. My programmer out of Chicago is on the credits for Linux and Unix's first release ...lol needless to say he's old school.
I gotta say, if your gonna do that then Unix is the shiznit in the real IT world. Informix for the data base rocks as well, sure its not the most fancy but it is 10000 times more stable and secure then MS crap.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
That was the achilles heel of that defense. They argued that the emulator encouraged piracy.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
No.. the EMU designer didn't... but some of the people running emu servers did. But since there was no piracy protection on the EMU the court thought they helped circumvent it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'm not sure what people are really complaining about; you can discuss the emu on it's site.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0