I had multiple accounts and was giving SOE almost 100$ a month to play my accounts on SWG, thats how good it was. I would stay online playing for hours doing any number of things that made a differance on my server and all the players used my crafted goods so I felt liek I was an important member of the community.
After all the changes it just seems like there is no point to do anything in SWG because either its just gonna be destroyed by SOE or the whole game is gonan be rewritten again and again.
Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot There were a shit things messed up/bugged and never fixed, and we bitched....
But it was the best PvP/sandbox/freewill MMO ever...
When SWG launched, i remember the morning i went out to go get it, i arrived at Gamestop right when it opened and pick up my copy. I then called my good friend and we began the greatest saga....ours. Man i was so clueless when i first got in, such a new MMO, new design, engine, everything seemed foreign to me, but i loved it. I was on the phone with my friend and he was like, "Im in Mos Espa" and i was shouting, "Lol how the hell do i find you". So i went out exploring not knowning what the hell im doing, killing random creatures, getting xp. Then the next day, we decided to switch servers to Bloodfin and stayed there. He was going Master Bounty Hunter, Pistoleer and something else, i was going Commando and Tera Kasi Master. We joined a pretty good guild (Guild leader still plays SWG to this day!!!). Before player cities and all that player crafted stuff, people grinding up to the higher skills were making so much cool stuff. It was cool when i bought my first Commando weapon off an infamous player, Enott. He monopolized Bloodfins arms trade for some time. Anyways, by now they released player cities, so we build one on Correlia, right by a huge lake area, oh it was so cool. My friend set up his house like a Bounty Hunters office place, with lamp, desk, weapons on walls, cloths in the back room, lewt in the back room. It was pretty cool. I made a Tera Kasi Meditation room, lots of plants, soft looking stuff, very cool. Loot and extra weapons in the back room. I remember we would do seperate rebel missions for faction, those were fun, especially once ATST NPC were spawning and i had a Flamethrower (which sucked with accuracy back in the day) but it would 1 shot kill human NPCS. So i bought some Rocket Launchers (very cool), and i right, (Animation is kneel down, and fire), missle does a barrel roll with smoke and BAM down goes the ATST. A great victory for me. I remember to travel was expensive, people could barely afford to travel to Endor and Yavin IV. So we travel to Endor i believe to hunt, and theres these slow slow cats, missions worth 40k credits (that was a TON back then), so we did these, over and over again, became rich quick. Then they fixed it, no more easy money/exp = ( A lot later, they put in Holocrons. It was fun being in caves with 50+ people fighting over the kills/loot rights. With jedi being unlocked, it was pretty cool and such. Up until they made the village, then it sucked...
BTW Gorukha is obvious niaeve and ignorant, and probably has shit falling out of his mouth.
Now I am curious who you were. You obviously played on Bloodfin if you knew Enott. I bet him to weaponsmith but he had the market cornered with beta experience and a strong guild behind him. Heh, he was a fun one to try and compete with.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
Originally posted by Speedhaak I've been reading forever the "bring back the good old days of SWG's" posts that have been circulating lately, I've only ever played L2, FF xi. EQ2 and WoW so I'm clueless to SWG. It seems the game holds a special place in many of your hearts, pity really as I'd love to start a new MMO (bored with WoW) but none of the current ones interest me. So, tell me was SWG really the 'Hero' it is remembered as?
Yea, it had it's problems for sure. I remember the host of annoying bugs that never got fixed and the lack of things you would expect to be in game...I remember running around on foot until they finally patched and let you get mounts. I remember how long it took to have vehicles. The delay for player cities seemed like years.
Looking back, having played some other MMOs I now see that the game had so much more going for it than I knew. Sure it was buggy and unfinished and lacking content. But it was fairly open to people playing with people (not forced mindless zergs) and needing people and it was fairly open to people making their own content. It wasn't the Hero of a game, it was just above other games in many ways.
I remember my first days in WoW. All I could think was how it felt such a finished product, the polish was like none before (especially SWG)! I kept that feeling for a long time...and found myself one day sitting in a raid full of people a lot younger than me that I didn't really like, grinding out the same boss fights that were only fun the first 3 times, praying an item I "needed" (for more raiding) would drop and that I'd have enough points to get it. All I could think was: "what the heck happened to what WoW started out as?!". Sure I enjoyed killing bosses for the first time on the server, but the dozens of runs required were killing me...and then there was a new dungeon and another one. I wanted player interaction and variaty but instead I was in the same dungeons once a week with the same people, grinding the same mobs. I was basically an exact copy of all the other people that had my class in the raid because the skill tree made little to no difference.
I now know that: I'd rather need other players than get everything from some silly boss. I'd rather have the freedome to create exactly what I want for my characters skills instead of choosing another worthless class when I create the character. Yes, I'd rather be a "weak" Rifleman/Ranger because it's what I want to play than be a "strong" warrior because it's fairly close to what I think I want to play. I'd rather have mostly player made end game content than a set three dungeons or x goals or y items as an end game (as good as Diablo was and as much fun as I had in it). I'd rather have a flat open field of a world map that I can completely explore than a walled in pathway to follow (EQ2 failed so badly here...I couldn't believe it).
In short: give me a new game (with no attachments to SOE or EA) that has a similar system to the original SWG or go home. I don't want your cookie-cutter fantasy game any more than I want to work.
After three years, if they hadn't changed the game engine to what it is today, I'd still prefer it to WoW, EQ2, DDO, and the lot. That's how good it was to me.
While the skill system was a decent change of pace, the grinding invovled was terrible.
Unless it was 'Theme Park' content, it was all 'cookie cutter' missions. (go to any mission terminal and you'll see what I mean.)
The whole path to become a Jedi was beyond ridiculous. You how to grind through 4 professions you did or didnt want and then guess the 5th one to unlock the means to be a jedi. Rather than make it story based from the SW universe, they made it a disgusting game time sink.
Oh and I forgot the GCW suffered alot of bugs to the point where it was unplayable and silly.
BTW I played SWG for about a year from the first day it came out with sporadic visits up to now. So I may have missed a few improvements. Bottom line, nostalgia only remembers fond memories and not the bad ones.
For me it was that dam good ! I remember saying in another thread how I miss waiting in line for buffs ( yes in line behind other players) and I never thought I see the day where I would say that. I miss it but not like I used to,time has healed my wounds and I'm moving on.
As far as the hate threads you read and blah blah....man some people do actually have to much time which could be molded into something constructive.
LOL i remember buff lines, i remember i was so poor, i was stealing buffs from the buff bots.
Also i remember when i was Bounty Hunter/Smuggler/Master Pistoleer, early in the morning, i go to the doc for buffs, and i hit tab....and it targeted someone.
I was like, wierd, so i opened my datapad and theres my Bounty. A newb jedi too, 40k+ credit worth. So, i run back 5 m, and open fire. Needless to say, he first went up to attack me with some fencer weapon or something, then switched to his lightsaber, by then he dropped.
The Doc rezzed him (bastard!!!). I hope Age of Conan has some Bounty System.
Most people who talk shit about SWG havent played it, they just jump on the flamers bandwagon and say it sucks due to its state.
Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot There were a shit things messed up/bugged and never fixed, and we bitched....
But it was the best PvP/sandbox/freewill MMO ever...
When SWG launched, i remember the morning i went out to go get it, i arrived at Gamestop right when it opened and pick up my copy. I then called my good friend and we began the greatest saga....ours. Man i was so clueless when i first got in, such a new MMO, new design, engine, everything seemed foreign to me, but i loved it. I was on the phone with my friend and he was like, "Im in Mos Espa" and i was shouting, "Lol how the hell do i find you". So i went out exploring not knowning what the hell im doing, killing random creatures, getting xp. Then the next day, we decided to switch servers to Bloodfin and stayed there. He was going Master Bounty Hunter, Pistoleer and something else, i was going Commando and Tera Kasi Master. We joined a pretty good guild (Guild leader still plays SWG to this day!!!). Before player cities and all that player crafted stuff, people grinding up to the higher skills were making so much cool stuff. It was cool when i bought my first Commando weapon off an infamous player, Enott. He monopolized Bloodfins arms trade for some time. Anyways, by now they released player cities, so we build one on Correlia, right by a huge lake area, oh it was so cool. My friend set up his house like a Bounty Hunters office place, with lamp, desk, weapons on walls, cloths in the back room, lewt in the back room. It was pretty cool. I made a Tera Kasi Meditation room, lots of plants, soft looking stuff, very cool. Loot and extra weapons in the back room. I remember we would do seperate rebel missions for faction, those were fun, especially once ATST NPC were spawning and i had a Flamethrower (which sucked with accuracy back in the day) but it would 1 shot kill human NPCS. So i bought some Rocket Launchers (very cool), and i right, (Animation is kneel down, and fire), missle does a barrel roll with smoke and BAM down goes the ATST. A great victory for me. I remember to travel was expensive, people could barely afford to travel to Endor and Yavin IV. So we travel to Endor i believe to hunt, and theres these slow slow cats, missions worth 40k credits (that was a TON back then), so we did these, over and over again, became rich quick. Then they fixed it, no more easy money/exp = ( A lot later, they put in Holocrons. It was fun being in caves with 50+ people fighting over the kills/loot rights. With jedi being unlocked, it was pretty cool and such. Up until they made the village, then it sucked...
BTW Gorukha is obvious niaeve and ignorant, and probably has shit falling out of his mouth.
Now I am curious who you were. You obviously played on Bloodfin if you knew Enott. I bet him to weaponsmith but he had the market cornered with beta experience and a strong guild behind him. Heh, he was a fun one to try and compete with.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot There were a shit things messed up/bugged and never fixed, and we bitched....
But it was the best PvP/sandbox/freewill MMO ever...
When SWG launched, i remember the morning i went out to go get it, i arrived at Gamestop right when it opened and pick up my copy. I then called my good friend and we began the greatest saga....ours. Man i was so clueless when i first got in, such a new MMO, new design, engine, everything seemed foreign to me, but i loved it. I was on the phone with my friend and he was like, "Im in Mos Espa" and i was shouting, "Lol how the hell do i find you". So i went out exploring not knowning what the hell im doing, killing random creatures, getting xp. Then the next day, we decided to switch servers to Bloodfin and stayed there. He was going Master Bounty Hunter, Pistoleer and something else, i was going Commando and Tera Kasi Master. We joined a pretty good guild (Guild leader still plays SWG to this day!!!). Before player cities and all that player crafted stuff, people grinding up to the higher skills were making so much cool stuff. It was cool when i bought my first Commando weapon off an infamous player, Enott. He monopolized Bloodfins arms trade for some time. Anyways, by now they released player cities, so we build one on Correlia, right by a huge lake area, oh it was so cool. My friend set up his house like a Bounty Hunters office place, with lamp, desk, weapons on walls, cloths in the back room, lewt in the back room. It was pretty cool. I made a Tera Kasi Meditation room, lots of plants, soft looking stuff, very cool. Loot and extra weapons in the back room. I remember we would do seperate rebel missions for faction, those were fun, especially once ATST NPC were spawning and i had a Flamethrower (which sucked with accuracy back in the day) but it would 1 shot kill human NPCS. So i bought some Rocket Launchers (very cool), and i right, (Animation is kneel down, and fire), missle does a barrel roll with smoke and BAM down goes the ATST. A great victory for me. I remember to travel was expensive, people could barely afford to travel to Endor and Yavin IV. So we travel to Endor i believe to hunt, and theres these slow slow cats, missions worth 40k credits (that was a TON back then), so we did these, over and over again, became rich quick. Then they fixed it, no more easy money/exp = ( A lot later, they put in Holocrons. It was fun being in caves with 50+ people fighting over the kills/loot rights. With jedi being unlocked, it was pretty cool and such. Up until they made the village, then it sucked...
BTW Gorukha is obvious niaeve and ignorant, and probably has shit falling out of his mouth.
Now I am curious who you were. You obviously played on Bloodfin if you knew Enott. I bet him to weaponsmith but he had the market cornered with beta experience and a strong guild behind him. Heh, he was a fun one to try and compete with.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
Heh, that is because Archimonde is their main server. I believe they are horde. Our website and forums has everyone on it.
SWG "Back in the day" had it's fair share of problems. Inbalances and quirks.
But for all that, in it's time, it was the most challenging, most exciting and most fun MMORPG on the market.
Unfortunately they removed much of the complexity with the CU and when NGE hit they ripped out the guts of the game. All that's left is an EQ2/WoW clone of a game where you shoot blasters instead of casting spells.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I love SWG its was a great game. Personally i hate Star Wars (pretty sure im gonna get flamed for that) but the games have always been well made and SWG was no different. As much as i do not liek Star Wars the game kept me hooked untilt he NGE hit. You coudl do whatever you wanted if you did not liek being a riflemen after 2 months you could become a armorsmith you were not just 1 profession and thats it.
Also even if you dabbled becoming a armorsmith and riflemen you were still effective because there was no levels. And PvP was not loot oriented i was a big PvP'ers but i dont have much time online and games like WoW you need to raid all day to be good at PvP and stuff, Here you ran a couple of missions and bought a Weapon from your local Weaponsmith. Very Rarely were looted weapons better then weaponsmith weapons. And when they were they had the legendary tag and there were few per server. Even if you did not have a good weapon such as myself you didn't need it ( of course it helped) but if you were good you could ovecome it, so it wasn't a game as I played longer then you so im better due to my equipment. Even if you did have worse Equipment you could still win.
Also its was a somewhat complicated crafting system and people who mastered the %'s needed made the ebst armor. It was a great game and i truly miss it.
This game also had the best community even if you did not fight or craft you could log in and go to a cantina and talk with random people for awhile. You could also dance and play music which made money. And i think it had the most in-depth character customization at the time.
Originally posted by Speedhaak I've been reading forever the "bring back the good old days of SWG's" posts that have been circulating lately, I've only ever played L2, FF xi. EQ2 and WoW so I'm clueless to SWG. It seems the game holds a special place in many of your hearts, pity really as I'd love to start a new MMO (bored with WoW) but none of the current ones interest me. So, tell me was SWG really the 'Hero' it is remembered as?
SWG was not the 'Hero' it was remembered as. It's been nearly a year and a half since pre-CU existed and people's recollection is a little rosey.
However, it was a one of a kind game back then, unique in so many ways that it should hold a special place in the hearts of people who liked it back then. There has not been, nor post-WoW will there be, that type of game in the forseeable future. That is what makes it so sad a loss.
The irony is that if instead of doing the CU long ago and NGE, they implemented much of the content and fullfilled the promises that have been done since the CU and NGE, SWG would probably be even bigger now than in it's hayday.
Originally posted by Velric Yes, yes, and more yes.
There were absolutely no limits to what you could do in the game.
Player Cities - Design the entire layout. - Many different house styles that all had x, y, and z axis for unlimited decoration possibilites (plus thousands upon thousands of pieces of furniture, paintings, sculptures, plants, etc...) - Ability to run for mayor - Ability to set up town militia - Ability to set property zones - Player run malls - Player run vendors - Player run spaceports - Player run cantinas - Player run med centers - Ability to set property taxes, travel taxes, and sales tax within the city limits
Still exists
PvP - Player bases that were customizable like a house, had the ability to add aimable turrests, ability to add mines, ability to add NPC guards, and the ability to attack and destroy. - A faction system based on the Imperial and Rebel forces that allowed players to be Overt (PvP on) or Covert (PvP off) based on the situations around them, whether they have recently helped someone Overt, and whether or not they have recently been found to have illegal contriband by NPC stormtroopers or if caught by a covert detector near a player base.
Still exists
Character Customization - Hundreds of emotes and dances - Detailed character creator - Thousands and thousands of different non-combat clothing with hundreds of color possibilities. - In game pofession that can change and customize your appearance.
Still exists
Crafting - Massively deep craftin system that required people to scan planet surfaces for available resources and quality, set down various types of harvesters, and power the harvesters with regular upkeep. - Thousands upon thousands of unique resources that changed weekly as they depleted across each planet that could be sold for massive amounts or used for your own crafting. - Experimentation on items that meant based on your characters skill, your quality of resources, and the time you put into it every single item you make and everyone else makes could have different stats. - 100% player run economy. No NPC vendors what so ever. Every item in the game is player made and sold.
Still exists. Some items are now loot (weapons are generally better as quest rewards the crafted at the moment) but you can't buy things from NPCs, you still have to go through players whether you're buying crafted or looted.
Skill System - No levels. Ability to customize your character using a pool of over 30 professions and all of the skills and abilities within each one.
Space - Customize and pimp your ship in every possible way. Tweak every system of the ship.
Still exists - Space PvP
Still exists
--------------
So yes, yes, and more yes. SWG was just that damn good.
Crafting - Massively deep craftin system that required people to scan planet surfaces for available resources and quality, set down various types of harvesters, and power the harvesters with regular upkeep. - Thousands upon thousands of unique resources that changed weekly as they depleted across each planet that could be sold for massive amounts or used for your own crafting. - Experimentation on items that meant based on your characters skill, your quality of resources, and the time you put into it every single item you make and everyone else makes could have different stats. - 100% player run economy. No NPC vendors what so ever. Every item in the game is player made and sold. Still exists. Some items are now loot (weapons are generally better as quest rewards the crafted at the moment) but you can't buy things from NPCs, you still have to go through players whether you're buying crafted or looted.
Skill System - No levels. Ability to customize your character using a pool of over 30 professions and all of the skills and abilities within each one.
I'm in red
It was just a matter of time wasn't it? I will agree that most of your points are valid, considering SOE hasn't completely obliterated many aspects of SWG. Overall, many areas of the game are still in existance, albeit much shallower than they were preCU. These two points, however, are what caught my eye especially. The economy in SWG is now shot to hell, you could play just fine by using only loot. This eliminates the manditory need for crafters. Sure they're still around and needed for certain things, but playing off of loot wouldn't put you at an unrecoverable disadvantage. I also like your lack of comment to the skill system point. I will argue, definitively, that the preCU advancement system of 32 mix/match-able professions is all-around superior to the "pick your one-of-nine" linear advancement used currently. Yes I know about expertise and new "talent points," gimme a break, what else do they have to rip off of other games?
*Points to title words "...back in the day?"* I'd be willing to bet that the OP is not interested in the NGE, and if he was, he'd check it out for himself. Not saying you didn't experience preNGE as I don't know when you started, but I don't think the NGE is what comes to mind when people say, "back in the day," when referring to SWG.
Speaking as someone who played SWG from day four of the Shadowfire server up until just after the CU, I have to say that yes, SWG was that good...or could have been. The game had its problems, but really nothing that couldn't have been solved with a balance pass; instead SOE went and designed an entirely new game.
The problems with the game, IMO, were mostly centered around the balance between classes and templates. In a science fiction game, ranged templates should at be at least as effective as melee templates, but that was not the case in most instances.
The other major problem was simply this: player jedi. SOE made it a massive grind to unlock jedi, the ultimate alpha class. It required months of dedicated grinding, during which you really couldn't do much else because you were forced to give up your template in the process. This wasn't too bad for those who could afford multiple accounts, but for people (like me) with only one account, it would've made PvP and other high-end combat completely impossible. If the grind had been short, this would've been livable, but, alas, it wasn't. In the end, those people with jedi dominated PvP, and those who didn't have it were screwed; this is why I originally cancelled my account.
Again, both of these problems could've been solved with a simple balance pass; the combat upgrade was not needed, and a complete game revamp even less so.
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Originally posted by kimosabe Originally posted by Obraik
Originally posted by Velric
Crafting - Massively deep craftin system that required people to scan planet surfaces for available resources and quality, set down various types of harvesters, and power the harvesters with regular upkeep. - Thousands upon thousands of unique resources that changed weekly as they depleted across each planet that could be sold for massive amounts or used for your own crafting. - Experimentation on items that meant based on your characters skill, your quality of resources, and the time you put into it every single item you make and everyone else makes could have different stats. - 100% player run economy. No NPC vendors what so ever. Every item in the game is player made and sold. Still exists. Some items are now loot (weapons are generally better as quest rewards the crafted at the moment) but you can't buy things from NPCs, you still have to go through players whether you're buying crafted or looted.
Skill System - No levels. Ability to customize your character using a pool of over 30 professions and all of the skills and abilities within each one.
I'm in red
It was just a matter of time wasn't it? I will agree that most of your points are valid, considering SOE hasn't completely obliterated many aspects of SWG. Overall, many areas of the game are still in existance, albeit much shallower than they were preCU. These two points, however, are what caught my eye especially. The economy in SWG is not shot to hell, you could play just fine by using only loot. This eliminates the manditory need for crafters. Sure they're still around and needed for certain things, but playing off of loot wouldn't put you at an unrecoverable disadvantage. I also like your lack of comment to the skill system point. I will argue, definitively, that the preCU advancement system of 32 mix/match-able professions is all-around superior to the "pick your one-of-nine" linear advancement used currently. Yes I know about expertise and new "talent points," gimme a break, what else do they have to rip off of other games?
*Points to title words "...back in the day?"* I'd be willing to bet that the OP is not interested in the NGE, and if he was, he'd check it out for himself. Not saying you didn't experience preNGE as I don't know when you started, but I don't think the NGE is what comes to mind when people say, "back in the day," when referring to SWG.
Firstly, I've been playing SWG since launch, so now you know
All those points you quoted in your post still exist in SWG today. Yes, there are loot/reward weapons that are better then anything that could be crafted but if you want to buy them then you get have to buy them from another player who dictates the price that you pay for it. Weapons are the only thing where loot/rewards trump crafted. Loot armour has resists that are around 1-2k less resists then anything crafted can have and you very rarely see people wearing looted armour.
Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot Originally posted by Velric Originally posted by kidRiot There were a shit things messed up/bugged and never fixed, and we bitched....
But it was the best PvP/sandbox/freewill MMO ever...
When SWG launched, i remember the morning i went out to go get it, i arrived at Gamestop right when it opened and pick up my copy. I then called my good friend and we began the greatest saga....ours. Man i was so clueless when i first got in, such a new MMO, new design, engine, everything seemed foreign to me, but i loved it. I was on the phone with my friend and he was like, "Im in Mos Espa" and i was shouting, "Lol how the hell do i find you". So i went out exploring not knowning what the hell im doing, killing random creatures, getting xp. Then the next day, we decided to switch servers to Bloodfin and stayed there. He was going Master Bounty Hunter, Pistoleer and something else, i was going Commando and Tera Kasi Master. We joined a pretty good guild (Guild leader still plays SWG to this day!!!). Before player cities and all that player crafted stuff, people grinding up to the higher skills were making so much cool stuff. It was cool when i bought my first Commando weapon off an infamous player, Enott. He monopolized Bloodfins arms trade for some time. Anyways, by now they released player cities, so we build one on Correlia, right by a huge lake area, oh it was so cool. My friend set up his house like a Bounty Hunters office place, with lamp, desk, weapons on walls, cloths in the back room, lewt in the back room. It was pretty cool. I made a Tera Kasi Meditation room, lots of plants, soft looking stuff, very cool. Loot and extra weapons in the back room. I remember we would do seperate rebel missions for faction, those were fun, especially once ATST NPC were spawning and i had a Flamethrower (which sucked with accuracy back in the day) but it would 1 shot kill human NPCS. So i bought some Rocket Launchers (very cool), and i right, (Animation is kneel down, and fire), missle does a barrel roll with smoke and BAM down goes the ATST. A great victory for me. I remember to travel was expensive, people could barely afford to travel to Endor and Yavin IV. So we travel to Endor i believe to hunt, and theres these slow slow cats, missions worth 40k credits (that was a TON back then), so we did these, over and over again, became rich quick. Then they fixed it, no more easy money/exp = ( A lot later, they put in Holocrons. It was fun being in caves with 50+ people fighting over the kills/loot rights. With jedi being unlocked, it was pretty cool and such. Up until they made the village, then it sucked...
BTW Gorukha is obvious niaeve and ignorant, and probably has shit falling out of his mouth.
Now I am curious who you were. You obviously played on Bloodfin if you knew Enott. I bet him to weaponsmith but he had the market cornered with beta experience and a strong guild behind him. Heh, he was a fun one to try and compete with.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
Heh, that is because Archimonde is their main server. I believe they are horde. Our website and forums has everyone on it.
I wouldnn exactly call SWG a good game, back in the days. More of a.. Special game. A game, which gave you that special feeling. Let's be honest, there was ALOT of bugs around. Not exactly gamebreaking bugs, but when a bug have been around for a since launch, you kinda start to wonder.. It was the playerbase, that made the game great. The roleplayers, the crafters, the entertainers, the guilds.. Shopping around for a new set of non-combat outfit was hella' fun. PvE was pretty repetive, i think i lost count of how many Quenkers(Was that, what they was called?) i've killed, while grinding up a new proffesion. But the proffesion system, made it worth it - You decided what role you exactly wanted to play. I had alot of fun with my rifleman/ranger, my CH/Pistoleer, my Smuggler/Pistoleer, TK/Combat medic.. Never was a crafter myself.
All in all, if SWG had changed hands before the CU, it could be the best game today. There was changes needed, a bit more indepth PvE, quite a few in PvP, get rid of all the bugs. But yeah, if it was pre-cu, i'd still be playing, that's for sure.
Put it this way , i can think back to my time as a master creature handler selling my beasts outside a starport and it makes me smile , i can't beliive they removed them from the game
Originally posted by Velric Yes, yes, and more yes.
There were absolutely no limits to what you could do in the game.
Player Cities - Design the entire layout. - Many different house styles that all had x, y, and z axis for unlimited decoration possibilites (plus thousands upon thousands of pieces of furniture, paintings, sculptures, plants, etc...) - Ability to run for mayor - Ability to set up town militia - Ability to set property zones - Player run malls - Player run vendors - Player run spaceports - Player run cantinas - Player run med centers - Ability to set property taxes, travel taxes, and sales tax within the city limits
PvP - Player bases that were customizable like a house, had the ability to add aimable turrests, ability to add mines, ability to add NPC guards, and the ability to attack and destroy. - A faction system based on the Imperial and Rebel forces that allowed players to be Overt (PvP on) or Covert (PvP off) based on the situations around them, whether they have recently helped someone Overt, and whether or not they have recently been found to have illegal contriband by NPC stormtroopers or if caught by a covert detector near a player base.
Character Customization - Hundreds of emotes and dances - Detailed character creator - Thousands and thousands of different non-combat clothing with hundreds of color possibilities. - In game pofession that can change and customize your appearance.
Crafting - Massively deep craftin system that required people to scan planet surfaces for available resources and quality, set down various types of harvesters, and power the harvesters with regular upkeep. - Thousands upon thousands of unique resources that changed weekly as they depleted across each planet that could be sold for massive amounts or used for your own crafting. - Experimentation on items that meant based on your characters skill, your quality of resources, and the time you put into it every single item you make and everyone else makes could have different stats. - 100% player run economy. No NPC vendors what so ever. Every item in the game is player made and sold.
Skill System - No levels. Ability to customize your character using a pool of over 30 professions and all of the skills and abilities within each one.
Space - Customize and pimp your ship in every possible way. Tweak every system of the ship. - Space PvP
--------------
So yes, yes, and more yes. SWG was just that damn good.
I think Velric pretty much sums it up. Imagine having a bad hair day in your favourite MMO. No problem! You find a player in a saloon and he charges you a fee and you can change you appearance!! This game WAS the best game ever. I kid you not!
nope .It had loads of issues still and was filled with moaning from day 1.SWG/LA has spent years trying to joggle between the RPers and the jedi wannabies .
Then after a while it seems they decided to bite the bullet and lose the RPers in favour of jedi wannabies(guess they figured the RPers were less so they went for the more $$).
But then for some strange reason they decided to mess with the jedi community .Not like the current nge will attract any RPers anyhow.
It was not out in the open then and SWG relied heavily on the star wars name and had a good turnover of players to compensate for the high cancellation.Many left and many came .
Comments
I had multiple accounts and was giving SOE almost 100$ a month to play my accounts on SWG, thats how good it was. I would stay online playing for hours doing any number of things that made a differance on my server and all the players used my crafted goods so I felt liek I was an important member of the community.
After all the changes it just seems like there is no point to do anything in SWG because either its just gonna be destroyed by SOE or the whole game is gonan be rewritten again and again.
{(RIP)} SWG
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
Yea, it had it's problems for sure. I remember the host of annoying bugs that never got fixed and the lack of things you would expect to be in game...I remember running around on foot until they finally patched and let you get mounts. I remember how long it took to have vehicles. The delay for player cities seemed like years.
Looking back, having played some other MMOs I now see that the game had so much more going for it than I knew. Sure it was buggy and unfinished and lacking content. But it was fairly open to people playing with people (not forced mindless zergs) and needing people and it was fairly open to people making their own content. It wasn't the Hero of a game, it was just above other games in many ways.
I remember my first days in WoW. All I could think was how it felt such a finished product, the polish was like none before (especially SWG)! I kept that feeling for a long time...and found myself one day sitting in a raid full of people a lot younger than me that I didn't really like, grinding out the same boss fights that were only fun the first 3 times, praying an item I "needed" (for more raiding) would drop and that I'd have enough points to get it. All I could think was: "what the heck happened to what WoW started out as?!". Sure I enjoyed killing bosses for the first time on the server, but the dozens of runs required were killing me...and then there was a new dungeon and another one. I wanted player interaction and variaty but instead I was in the same dungeons once a week with the same people, grinding the same mobs. I was basically an exact copy of all the other people that had my class in the raid because the skill tree made little to no difference.
I now know that: I'd rather need other players than get everything from some silly boss. I'd rather have the freedome to create exactly what I want for my characters skills instead of choosing another worthless class when I create the character. Yes, I'd rather be a "weak" Rifleman/Ranger because it's what I want to play than be a "strong" warrior because it's fairly close to what I think I want to play. I'd rather have mostly player made end game content than a set three dungeons or x goals or y items as an end game (as good as Diablo was and as much fun as I had in it). I'd rather have a flat open field of a world map that I can completely explore than a walled in pathway to follow (EQ2 failed so badly here...I couldn't believe it).
In short: give me a new game (with no attachments to SOE or EA) that has a similar system to the original SWG or go home. I don't want your cookie-cutter fantasy game any more than I want to work.
Best roleplay environment I have ever been in.
Combat was definitely not a need. Many very rich players never participated in combat.
NGE took all the differences out of the game. There is no individuality and the trades professions took a tremendous hit.
SWG is no longer a MMORPG, it is a FPS in MMORPG's clothing.
While the skill system was a decent change of pace, the grinding invovled was terrible.
Unless it was 'Theme Park' content, it was all 'cookie cutter' missions. (go to any mission terminal and you'll see what I mean.)
The whole path to become a Jedi was beyond ridiculous. You how to grind through 4 professions you did or didnt want and then guess the 5th one to unlock the means to be a jedi. Rather than make it story based from the SW universe, they made it a disgusting game time sink.
Oh and I forgot the GCW suffered alot of bugs to the point where it was unplayable and silly.
BTW I played SWG for about a year from the first day it came out with sporadic visits up to now. So I may have missed a few improvements. Bottom line, nostalgia only remembers fond memories and not the bad ones.
D
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
For me it was that dam good ! I remember saying in another thread how I miss waiting in line for buffs ( yes in line behind other players) and I never thought I see the day where I would say that. I miss it but not like I used to,time has healed my wounds and I'm moving on.
As far as the hate threads you read and blah blah....man some people do actually have to much time which could be molded into something constructive.
Waiting on Guild Wars 2
LOL i remember buff lines, i remember i was so poor, i was stealing buffs from the buff bots.
Also i remember when i was Bounty Hunter/Smuggler/Master Pistoleer, early in the morning, i go to the doc for buffs, and i hit tab....and it targeted someone.
I was like, wierd, so i opened my datapad and theres my Bounty. A newb jedi too, 40k+ credit worth. So, i run back 5 m, and open fire. Needless to say, he first went up to attack me with some fencer weapon or something, then switched to his lightsaber, by then he dropped.
The Doc rezzed him (bastard!!!). I hope Age of Conan has some Bounty System.
Most people who talk shit about SWG havent played it, they just jump on the flamers bandwagon and say it sucks due to its state.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
Heh, that is because Archimonde is their main server. I believe they are horde. Our website and forums has everyone on it.
But for all that, in it's time, it was the most challenging, most exciting and most fun MMORPG on the market.
Unfortunately they removed much of the complexity with the CU and when NGE hit they ripped out the guts of the game. All that's left is an EQ2/WoW clone of a game where you shoot blasters instead of casting spells.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Also even if you dabbled becoming a armorsmith and riflemen you were still effective because there was no levels. And PvP was not loot oriented i was a big PvP'ers but i dont have much time online and games like WoW you need to raid all day to be good at PvP and stuff, Here you ran a couple of missions and bought a Weapon from your local Weaponsmith. Very Rarely were looted weapons better then weaponsmith weapons. And when they were they had the legendary tag and there were few per server. Even if you did not have a good weapon such as myself you didn't need it ( of course it helped) but if you were good you could ovecome it, so it wasn't a game as I played longer then you so im better due to my equipment. Even if you did have worse Equipment you could still win.
Also its was a somewhat complicated crafting system and people who mastered the %'s needed made the ebst armor. It was a great game and i truly miss it.
This game also had the best community even if you did not fight or craft you could log in and go to a cantina and talk with random people for awhile. You could also dance and play music which made money. And i think it had the most in-depth character customization at the time.
However, it was a one of a kind game back then, unique in so many ways that it should hold a special place in the hearts of people who liked it back then. There has not been, nor post-WoW will there be, that type of game in the forseeable future. That is what makes it so sad a loss.
The irony is that if instead of doing the CU long ago and NGE, they implemented much of the content and fullfilled the promises that have been done since the CU and NGE, SWG would probably be even bigger now than in it's hayday.
I'm in red
It was just a matter of time wasn't it? I will agree that most of your points are valid, considering SOE hasn't completely obliterated many aspects of SWG. Overall, many areas of the game are still in existance, albeit much shallower than they were preCU. These two points, however, are what caught my eye especially. The economy in SWG is now shot to hell, you could play just fine by using only loot. This eliminates the manditory need for crafters. Sure they're still around and needed for certain things, but playing off of loot wouldn't put you at an unrecoverable disadvantage. I also like your lack of comment to the skill system point. I will argue, definitively, that the preCU advancement system of 32 mix/match-able professions is all-around superior to the "pick your one-of-nine" linear advancement used currently. Yes I know about expertise and new "talent points," gimme a break, what else do they have to rip off of other games?
*Points to title words "...back in the day?"* I'd be willing to bet that the OP is not interested in the NGE, and if he was, he'd check it out for himself. Not saying you didn't experience preNGE as I don't know when you started, but I don't think the NGE is what comes to mind when people say, "back in the day," when referring to SWG.
Je mettrai l'amour sur dos de moi.
Speaking as someone who played SWG from day four of the Shadowfire server up until just after the CU, I have to say that yes, SWG was that good...or could have been. The game had its problems, but really nothing that couldn't have been solved with a balance pass; instead SOE went and designed an entirely new game.
The problems with the game, IMO, were mostly centered around the balance between classes and templates. In a science fiction game, ranged templates should at be at least as effective as melee templates, but that was not the case in most instances.
The other major problem was simply this: player jedi. SOE made it a massive grind to unlock jedi, the ultimate alpha class. It required months of dedicated grinding, during which you really couldn't do much else because you were forced to give up your template in the process. This wasn't too bad for those who could afford multiple accounts, but for people (like me) with only one account, it would've made PvP and other high-end combat completely impossible. If the grind had been short, this would've been livable, but, alas, it wasn't. In the end, those people with jedi dominated PvP, and those who didn't have it were screwed; this is why I originally cancelled my account.
Again, both of these problems could've been solved with a simple balance pass; the combat upgrade was not needed, and a complete game revamp even less so.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
I'm in red
It was just a matter of time wasn't it? I will agree that most of your points are valid, considering SOE hasn't completely obliterated many aspects of SWG. Overall, many areas of the game are still in existance, albeit much shallower than they were preCU. These two points, however, are what caught my eye especially. The economy in SWG is not shot to hell, you could play just fine by using only loot. This eliminates the manditory need for crafters. Sure they're still around and needed for certain things, but playing off of loot wouldn't put you at an unrecoverable disadvantage. I also like your lack of comment to the skill system point. I will argue, definitively, that the preCU advancement system of 32 mix/match-able professions is all-around superior to the "pick your one-of-nine" linear advancement used currently. Yes I know about expertise and new "talent points," gimme a break, what else do they have to rip off of other games?
*Points to title words "...back in the day?"* I'd be willing to bet that the OP is not interested in the NGE, and if he was, he'd check it out for himself. Not saying you didn't experience preNGE as I don't know when you started, but I don't think the NGE is what comes to mind when people say, "back in the day," when referring to SWG.
Firstly, I've been playing SWG since launch, so now you know
All those points you quoted in your post still exist in SWG today. Yes, there are loot/reward weapons that are better then anything that could be crafted but if you want to buy them then you get have to buy them from another player who dictates the price that you pay for it. Weapons are the only thing where loot/rewards trump crafted. Loot armour has resists that are around 1-2k less resists then anything crafted can have and you very rarely see people wearing looted armour.
Ang Sundalong Nasusugatan Nag-iibayo ang Tapang ^^^
https://gamersloot.net/catalog/
BTW, I was Foogle Macklemar.
I left smithing behind and while in combat mode played a Pikeman/Pistoleer with a little fencer to top it off. Absolutely no doc on that template, heh.
When I was in base bustin' crafting mode I ran a Bio Engineer with a spread of Pike and Pistols. Had the fast BE base hacks on the server. Long live NDC.
Omg i was in NDC, with Triumph, Pancrazio, Viracochia (or something), Isac. My name was Fizzek Decimator, i later joined DREAD, then AXIS, by then people were leaving for WoW.
I changed my professions a lot, and sometimes deleted my character for fun to make a different race with the same name.
Some also know me as Akirda Decimator. I loved PvPing at Saints Crossroad on Correlia i believe, when i was BH Pistoleer Medic/Doc or something, with Geo pistols pwning people in there 90 resist stun comp.
Those were the days.
NDC still exists in World of Warcraft, SWG, and Dungeons and Dragons Online. We're all still here.
I know NDC is on Laughing Skull, but it doesnt have any core members anymore. No Isac, Viracochia, Pancrazio (hes in Laughing Skull in PvP Sukka guild), no Lord Boss Nob or whatever his name was. Just like SWG, barely any original SWG players in it, all the big guild had a mass exodus to WoW and now who knows what all the members are doing.
Darkone, how was the GCW unplayable? At the time back then, it was just pure PvP, that was the GCW. If your referring to bases and planet caping, well that was never fully put in, i know in the CU they added it, but it had no significance.
Heh, that is because Archimonde is their main server. I believe they are horde. Our website and forums has everyone on it.
Doh thats right, Archimonde. Whats the website?
It was the playerbase, that made the game great. The roleplayers, the crafters, the entertainers, the guilds.. Shopping around for a new set of non-combat outfit was hella' fun.
PvE was pretty repetive, i think i lost count of how many Quenkers(Was that, what they was called?) i've killed, while grinding up a new proffesion. But the proffesion system, made it worth it - You decided what role you exactly wanted to play. I had alot of fun with my rifleman/ranger, my CH/Pistoleer, my Smuggler/Pistoleer, TK/Combat medic.. Never was a crafter myself.
All in all, if SWG had changed hands before the CU, it could be the best game today. There was changes needed, a bit more indepth PvE, quite a few in PvP, get rid of all the bugs. But yeah, if it was pre-cu, i'd still be playing, that's for sure.
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
Put it this way , i can think back to my time as a master creature handler selling my beasts outside a starport and it makes me smile , i can't beliive they removed them from the game
SWG used to be great.
nope .It had loads of issues still and was filled with moaning from day 1.SWG/LA has spent years trying to joggle between the RPers and the jedi wannabies .
Then after a while it seems they decided to bite the bullet and lose the RPers in favour of jedi wannabies(guess they figured the RPers were less so they went for the more $$).
But then for some strange reason they decided to mess with the jedi community .Not like the current nge will attract any RPers anyhow.
It was not out in the open then and SWG relied heavily on the star wars name and had a good turnover of players to compensate for the high cancellation.Many left and many came .
Now many left and few joined .