Originally posted by baphamet heh, you obviously haven't been following vanguard for a bit...let me clear something up for yeah.
Obviously eh? My Van forum account dates from 2 days after the forums went up. I had the Van site book marked before there was anything there other then a couple of riddlesque stories. I've been following it ever since.
I do thank you on confirming that the release date has been pushed back for a third or is that forth time now. Though, it'd be nice to see "official" word of that on their own website instead of some guild's forums. (yes, I read the FoH forums as well, just haven't been spending much time there the last couple months.)
As for speculation.. I admit, it is that. I also believe its a pretty good one at that. One or even several smalls things don't make a very firm ground for a solid speculation. When you have many of them, and get the chief cook and bottle washer trying to do damage control (from beta leaks and a fairly negative community) by posting a very "obvisous" sales pitch post on a forum such as these. I think that speaks volumes for just what they have.
PR and media blitzs can be a good thing. They help promote your product. There's a line though... Its not a very firm line, but its there. That line is how hard are they pushing their PR and such. The harder they push, the more that tells me they are worried. It also says, to me, that its most likely something I'll feel I didn't get my moneys worth out of. For me, Van went over that line a while back, and its just keeps getting pushed.
Datawight - Speed is Life, Glory a Necessity, Death a Given!
I have to agree with the original poster about the gameplay looking very much like that of World of warcraft. The enviroment to me however was more like that of Everquest with characters looking like that of Dark Age of Camelot. I understand the game is still in testing and could change by the release but as of now, i am not pleased with the results. I base my interpretation on the video. It is the only video i have seen from vanguard. If you are wondering, i have played Everquest for 3 years, DAOC for a year, and WoW for almost 2 years. On the other hand, the best way to truely experience the Vanguard concept is to try out the beta, which i am still waiting for my invitation.
----------------------------------------------+ | Microsoft Windows XP Pro x64 | ABIT AN8 x32 Nforce4 SLI x16 | AMD Athlon FX-60 Dual-Core 2.6GHz | Corsair 3.1 GB DDR 400 Dual-Channel | (2x) BFG GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb | Creative X-FI Xtreme Gamer | Western Digital 250Gb SATA
Obviously eh? My Van forum account dates from 2 days after the forums went up. I had the Van site book marked before there was anything there other then a couple of riddlesque stories. I've been following it ever since.
lol settle down there turbo, i was just saying its obvious that you haven't been following it recently, thats kool you have been following it for a long time though, grats on that.
but i sense that you feel it is bad they are pushing it back? i would rather them push it back then release it as in its current state personally.
and they have announced it, brad has made multiple posts about it on the FOH forums as well as the official forums...that is exactly why it seemed like you haven't been following it that close recently.
also i don't see anything wrong or see how the way brad has been promoting his game has anything to do with anything els other than getting the word out about his game.
right or wrong he feels that people are misinformed about alot of the negative beta leaks or whatnot so he feels he needs to get the correct info out there.
maybe some of it has something to do with "damage control" you can argue that but i also see alot of people talking out their a$$ especially on the FOH forum....but thats a whole different topic in itself.
Well, It seems you enjoy games likes wow, and wow is in a totalt different genre than Vanguard is (Though both may be mmo, you can still do 10000000times more things in Vanguard then you can in wow)
Never, EVER compere wow to everythings.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
i think they did a great job on the enviroments etc. The one thing i find dull are the character models, now this is only from what i have seen in the SS's, im sure its a little different in game, they just all seem to resemble humans to much.
Originally posted by lordtwisted Instanceing was not a WoW break through, it was around before WoW, and I disagree with Instances, DDO over abuses it. But I agree a game like CoV, which yes, I have played, and it has no community, so instanceing actually worked for it.
We are getting off topic here, but CoV community is great. I see peoples helping each other, using the badgers channels, talking with each other. If I am been ganked in a PvP zone, I ask for help and I see score of concerned players arise. In fact, I find the community in CoV-Liberty to rival the community in old EQ-Luclin.
Which bring the question to what a community is. For me, a community is....:
- Shared ideas, discussion, topics, explanations. Peoples talking about anything.
- A source for grouping.
- A source for finding/offering help for various problems someone might have, I can tell you that most players can use a LOT of help about the accolades. Peoples are often offering to take down on monsters, which is often (not always), answered by enough players.
Attacking another game never make oneself better. CoV community is extremely nice and friendly. The only nicer community I ever saw was SoR, but I can't bear SoR game despite been "nice", so I left it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by lordtwisted But I agree a game like CoV, which yes, I have played, and it has no community, so instanceing actually worked for it.
Has no community? You must have been playing a different game then me because I don't recall that at all.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by lordtwisted give me one WoW idea that defeats Vanguards proposed ideas....
You ask for it.
Instancing.
Instancing sucks donkey because it takes away from community by putting people into little cubicles instead of having to get a long with each other.
That may be somewhat true, but also you have to understand. Instancing provides far better a platform for Story telling or Scripted Events that Progress a story then open dungeons can. If you are taking the RP out of your MMORPG then open dungeons are fine. So much more immersion can be done with a instanced dungeon though. As long as they don't go overboard with it. A Good MMO that will probably come down the line. Will find that in order to be good. It should make use of both instanced and non-instanced dungeons.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Phoenixs The OP has a point. And I feel the same way.
Technically the graphics of Vangaurd have a sound foundation, got a all the modern effects and it has seamless terrain. The system requirements are very high atm, but it can be fixed, and I hope it will.
The graphics are static and cold. Like most other "real" mmo's like people like to call them. Eq, Eq2, Vanguard are just a few of them. All follow the same style of art. The "just some generic semi realistic fantasy art" style. When I keep looking at games like W.A.R and AoC, I see artist working on the game. While looking at Eq and Vanguard I see some nerdy guys sitting in a dark room, with thousands of lines of codes and numbers running down on a screen before them. I don't "feel" anything in the art, I'm not able to "touch" it. It feels like numbers. There doesn't seem to be a greater goal with the art. It doesn't try to be cartoony, it doesn't try to be realistic, it doesn't display a dark and gritty world, it doesn't display a fun and happy world, it's just brown and grey.
Under the problem above you can put animations, design, and most of the art in Vanguard. The landscapes are nice, but they suffer because they are so big. Big = more empty. Large parts of the terrain looks generated. Endless landscapes with trees and rocks placed in a random order. Again the "number feel" retuns. But the terrain does have many positive apects. Mainly the seamlessness. If something with the art in Vanguard is done good, it's the landscapes.
And what is up with the Vanguard community and Wow. On the forums, ingame and on fansites. Each time someone says something bad about Vanguard, or someone says that something was done good in Wow, he get's the "return to Wow you worthless piece of sh*t!" or "go play Wow you f**king 12 year old retard!" or just "http://www.worldofwarcraft.com". The Vanguard community is hands down the worst community in this aspect. Grow up people. Wow has some very good sides, you might not like it, but others do, without being 12 year old retards.
Haha, excellent post!
Yeah the Vanguard forum really have an amount of anger and witch-hunting, its astounding. What reason should some VSoH fan have to beat down everyone who questions something in Vanguard, if not his deep down hidden fear, the critic might prove TRUE?
I share your view on the graphics 100%. WOW has many limitations, but you see in every zone with every corner, it was carefully designed to invoke a feeling, wether you like or hate the cartoony style. Making scenery and graphics that catch me isnt so much a matter of polygons, its a matter of "art" and "style", and in that way the Vanguard graphics look uninspiring so far - IMHO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I can understand why they people who have come along and watched the vidoes Brad has made are speaking like they are, but really... take a second to think about the bigger picture as well you guys
The combat looks 'slow' but thats because partially FRAPS is being used, partially because we are looking at beta still, and partially because you arnt actually playing the game and can't see the depth of player involvement in the process. VG is as much tactical as it is action- this isnt an FPS or beat 'em up arcade game. It isnt sensible to come here and expect it to look like Dead or Alive.
WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs... fast food fantasy porn that you play knowing full well it isnt doing you any good at all, even though it seems pleasurable right now. Please lets not keep comparing that game to VG... the two are poles apart and are not even in competition for the same user base. If you really wanna eat McDonalds, fine, but please don't keep telling me all food should be Big Macs and a coke. I would rather be eating steak with a glass of wine.
The artistic styles of different games are what set them apart, and both Vanguard and EQ2 have the same generic "try to be realistic" feel to them.
No, no, no... I am sorry, but artistic styles are just part of what set games apart. Graphics arnt the definition of a great gaming experience, they only support it. EQ2 and VG are very different animals in their philosophies and aspirations. Saying that, I can see why you have come to this conclusion based off these videos but this is a false impression imho. All I ask is that please do some deeper research (it will take about 10 mins) to form a more rounded view.
To the OP: You have to understand, the graphics engine is yet to be fully implemented and optimized. Most of the light maps are not even done yet. Stop basing your judgments off of some YouTube quality video and wait until you have seen the game running on your system on your monitor in high-res. The game looks absolutely amazing, I know, from first hand experience. Especially when you look at some of the areas that are graphically finalized, it blew me away, and I've never seen indoor environments look as good anywhere else, and I have a slutty background with MMO's.
Originally posted by BlackWhysper Thank god for someone who understands
The funny thing is, I knew about the unfinalized graphic engine and missing lightmaps before I even touched Beta . People need to do their own homework on the progress of the game before making overgeneralized final judgments based off of interweb hype/anti-hype threads.
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Originally posted by n4t3py13 Originally posted by BlackWhysper Thank god for someone who understands
The funny thing is, I knew about the unfinalized graphic engine and missing lightmaps before I even touched Beta . People need to do their own homework on the progress of the game before making overgeneralized final judgments based off of interweb hype/anti-hype threads.
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Well some people just seem to look at a few pictures and some videos to do their judging. But i guess that is kinda what our culture is all about =P anyways, great comment
Originally posted by BlackWhysper Originally posted by n4t3py13 Originally posted by BlackWhysper Thank god for someone who understands
The funny thing is, I knew about the unfinalized graphic engine and missing lightmaps before I even touched Beta . People need to do their own homework on the progress of the game before making overgeneralized final judgments based off of interweb hype/anti-hype threads.
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Well some people just seem to look at a few pictures and some videos to do their judging. But i guess that is kinda what our culture is all about =P anyways, great comment
Thank you do you plan on picking the game up at retail?
Of course! I cannot wait, I have been following this game for about a year, I really think its going to be great.
A lot of brads ideas remind me of EQ1, and when i first played EQ1 (before Luclin) it was challenging and rewarding and thats what i want Of course its going to be very different from EQ1 but i think it will hold the same feeling =D I hope!
I've been following the game for some time and like what I've seen so far, sort of eq2ish, nothing wrong with that. I'm more interested in the content of the game, I like what I've read about the diplomacy ideas, the crafting ideas, the fact that an ocean voyage takes some time to get somewhere. The creators from everything I've seen and read are wanting to make a game thats a little more challenging, nothing wrong there. So many games lately have lost sight of making themselves challenging, they feel that as long as the game is pretty you'll run the level treadmill and not want anything else from it.
Originally posted by Amathe Originally posted by lordtwisted When you compare WoW to vanguard, it like compareing a cartoon to a movie. In vanguard you have realalistic colorings, and WoW you have all the colors out of a 64 piece crayon box.
By your definition Van Gogh is a crappy painter compared to Thomas Arvid.
The fact is that one game is stylized and impressionistic and one is more realistic. I happen to like both. But your preference for one does not make the other a "crayon box."
Actually, with such different styles, I think it would be more like comparing a Van Gogh to an Ansel Adams.
While I am sure many love the artistic style of a Van Gogh,
Originally posted by Kazeemia Yeah I like what I see, too. I've played Daoc and wow, and in my oppinion daoc graphics were more real than wow's. From what I can see I'd compare the graphics to Oblivion.
Graphics matter when your building a next gen game, a game that uses next gen tech. So your dead wrong in this regard J
Comments
Obviously eh? My Van forum account dates from 2 days after the forums went up. I had the Van site book marked before there was anything there other then a couple of riddlesque stories. I've been following it ever since.
I do thank you on confirming that the release date has been pushed back for a third or is that forth time now. Though, it'd be nice to see "official" word of that on their own website instead of some guild's forums. (yes, I read the FoH forums as well, just haven't been spending much time there the last couple months.)
As for speculation.. I admit, it is that. I also believe its a pretty good one at that. One or even several smalls things don't make a very firm ground for a solid speculation. When you have many of them, and get the chief cook and bottle washer trying to do damage control (from beta leaks and a fairly negative community) by posting a very "obvisous" sales pitch post on a forum such as these. I think that speaks volumes for just what they have.
PR and media blitzs can be a good thing. They help promote your product. There's a line though... Its not a very firm line, but its there. That line is how hard are they pushing their PR and such. The harder they push, the more that tells me they are worried. It also says, to me, that its most likely something I'll feel I didn't get my moneys worth out of. For me, Van went over that line a while back, and its just keeps getting pushed.
Datawight - Speed is Life, Glory a Necessity, Death a Given!
----------------------------------------------+
| Microsoft Windows XP Pro x64
| ABIT AN8 x32 Nforce4 SLI x16
| AMD Athlon FX-60 Dual-Core 2.6GHz
| Corsair 3.1 GB DDR 400 Dual-Channel
| (2x) BFG GeForce 8800 GTS 320mb
| Creative X-FI Xtreme Gamer
| Western Digital 250Gb SATA
lol settle down there turbo, i was just saying its obvious that you haven't been following it recently, thats kool you have been following it for a long time though, grats on that.
but i sense that you feel it is bad they are pushing it back? i would rather them push it back then release it as in its current state personally.
and they have announced it, brad has made multiple posts about it on the FOH forums as well as the official forums...that is exactly why it seemed like you haven't been following it that close recently.
also i don't see anything wrong or see how the way brad has been promoting his game has anything to do with anything els other than getting the word out about his game.
right or wrong he feels that people are misinformed about alot of the negative beta leaks or whatnot so he feels he needs to get the correct info out there.
maybe some of it has something to do with "damage control" you can argue that but i also see alot of people talking out their a$$ especially on the FOH forum....but thats a whole different topic in itself.
Well, It seems you enjoy games likes wow, and wow is in a totalt different genre than Vanguard is (Though both may be mmo, you can still do 10000000times more things in Vanguard then you can in wow)
Never, EVER compere wow to everythings.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
We are getting off topic here, but CoV community is great. I see peoples helping each other, using the badgers channels, talking with each other. If I am been ganked in a PvP zone, I ask for help and I see score of concerned players arise. In fact, I find the community in CoV-Liberty to rival the community in old EQ-Luclin.
Which bring the question to what a community is. For me, a community is....:
- Shared ideas, discussion, topics, explanations. Peoples talking about anything.
- A source for grouping.
- A source for finding/offering help for various problems someone might have, I can tell you that most players can use a LOT of help about the accolades. Peoples are often offering to take down on monsters, which is often (not always), answered by enough players.
Attacking another game never make oneself better. CoV community is extremely nice and friendly. The only nicer community I ever saw was SoR, but I can't bear SoR game despite been "nice", so I left it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You ask for it.
Instancing.
Instancing sucks donkey because it takes away from community by putting people into little cubicles instead of having to get a long with each other.
That may be somewhat true, but also you have to understand. Instancing provides far better a platform for Story telling or Scripted Events that Progress a story then open dungeons can. If you are taking the RP out of your MMORPG then open dungeons are fine. So much more immersion can be done with a instanced dungeon though. As long as they don't go overboard with it. A Good MMO that will probably come down the line. Will find that in order to be good. It should make use of both instanced and non-instanced dungeons.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Haha, excellent post!
Yeah the Vanguard forum really have an amount of anger and witch-hunting, its astounding. What reason should some VSoH fan have to beat down everyone who questions something in Vanguard, if not his deep down hidden fear, the critic might prove TRUE?
I share your view on the graphics 100%. WOW has many limitations, but you see in every zone with every corner, it was carefully designed to invoke a feeling, wether you like or hate the cartoony style. Making scenery and graphics that catch me isnt so much a matter of polygons, its a matter of "art" and "style", and in that way the Vanguard graphics look uninspiring so far - IMHO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
...
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
I felt the same way as the OP.
I watched the video and all I could think of was how much the game looked like EQ2 does.
The artistic styles of different games are what set them apart, and both Vanguard and EQ2 have the same generic "try to be realistic" feel to them.
The combat looked rather boring as well.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I can understand why they people who have come along and watched the vidoes Brad has made are speaking like they are, but really... take a second to think about the bigger picture as well you guys
The combat looks 'slow' but thats because partially FRAPS is being used, partially because we are looking at beta still, and partially because you arnt actually playing the game and can't see the depth of player involvement in the process. VG is as much tactical as it is action- this isnt an FPS or beat 'em up arcade game. It isnt sensible to come here and expect it to look like Dead or Alive.
WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs... fast food fantasy porn that you play knowing full well it isnt doing you any good at all, even though it seems pleasurable right now. Please lets not keep comparing that game to VG... the two are poles apart and are not even in competition for the same user base. If you really wanna eat McDonalds, fine, but please don't keep telling me all food should be Big Macs and a coke. I would rather be eating steak with a glass of wine.
The artistic styles of different games are what set them apart, and both Vanguard and EQ2 have the same generic "try to be realistic" feel to them.
No, no, no... I am sorry, but artistic styles are just part of what set games apart. Graphics arnt the definition of a great gaming experience, they only support it. EQ2 and VG are very different animals in their philosophies and aspirations. Saying that, I can see why you have come to this conclusion based off these videos but this is a false impression imho. All I ask is that please do some deeper research (it will take about 10 mins) to form a more rounded view.
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Well some people just seem to look at a few pictures and some videos to do their judging. But i guess that is kinda what our culture is all about =P anyways, great comment
Someone said the game felt like Cold 3d realistic graphics. That's 100% true when you look at screenshots and videos captured in areas that have basically no lighting effects going on. The feeling of warmth is achieved directly through correctly done lighting. I can't find anything to back up my statements because all of the videos that had good indoor footage with completed lighting, have seemed to disappear. Just wait and see, and hold off on passing your final judgment until their work on the graphic engine is completed (that goes for animations as well).
Well some people just seem to look at a few pictures and some videos to do their judging. But i guess that is kinda what our culture is all about =P anyways, great comment
Thank you
Of course! I cannot wait, I have been following this game for about a year, I really think its going to be great.
A lot of brads ideas remind me of EQ1, and when i first played EQ1 (before Luclin) it was challenging and rewarding and thats what i want
Of course its going to be very different from EQ1 but i think it will hold the same feeling =D I hope!
I've been following the game for some time and like what I've seen so far, sort of eq2ish, nothing wrong with that. I'm more interested in the content of the game, I like what I've read about the diplomacy ideas, the crafting ideas, the fact that an ocean voyage takes some time to get somewhere. The creators from everything I've seen and read are wanting to make a game thats a little more challenging, nothing wrong there. So many games lately have lost sight of making themselves challenging, they feel that as long as the game is pretty you'll run the level treadmill and not want anything else from it.
By your definition Van Gogh is a crappy painter compared to Thomas Arvid.
The fact is that one game is stylized and impressionistic and one is more realistic. I happen to like both. But your preference for one does not make the other a "crayon box."
Actually, with such different styles, I think it would be more like comparing a Van Gogh to an Ansel Adams.
While I am sure many love the artistic style of a Van Gogh,
I much prefer the work of Ansel Adams.
but then i also love the work of Rion Vernon
http://pinuptoons.com/Galleries/Digital/17.htm
Graphics matter when your building a next gen game, a game that uses next gen tech. So your dead wrong in this regard J
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