Jade, does the AK-47 have a direct counter to the M4 in CS? Does being blinded by a flashbang mean that your team can unblind you? I mean, that's exactly what I meant by you making a specious statement. Your argument is ostensible at best.
By saying that you choose weapons in an FPS and skills in GW so they're the same is like saying that because you kill badguys in FEAR and kill badguys in WoW that FEAR is an endless grind. Come on man, the input and output for CS and GW are completely different. They do not rely at all on the same kind of criteria.
I am not saying that you are not allowed to post your thoughts, I'm just saying that while they are both accesible for easy, quick enjoyment, they do not play at all the same. If I'm having a good day on GW I'm usually doing it because I keep getting killed in CS so I went to play a different style game.
GW has autoattack. So that right there almost completely invalidates your point.
WoW has talking cows. How's that for another, totally irrelevant differentiating factor?
GW has skill selection and builds. And figuring out and managing/timing your skills properly is very important. Your fightign effectiveness is heavily dependent on not just taking the right skill combo, but using it at the right time.
Why not play Magic the Gathering instead then? It enables infinitely more complex combinations and scenarios, with every player gathering a deck of 60 cards out of thousands, and then engaging in what tends to become a very complex and unique combat experience. The "complex tactical choices" you have in GW don't even begin to compare. You can play it online with thousands of people, but you could also play it with friends in real life, or participate in global tournaments for real price money.
Yeah, you could call GW some kind of realtime MTG; but in that case, can you call MTG a MMO? Why does it matter, you ask? Because from my point of view, even MTG has a lot more in common with Counterstrike than a MMO. Although to be honest even WoW's classification as a MMO seems kinda questionable to me, as it is hardly a "living, breathing virtual world" like a MMO is supposed to be.
Let's take the acronym, MMORPG, as two separate definitions.
MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online. This means that you can play with a massive number of other players online. This, GW does not have, but I don't think the fact that you can't play with 3,000 players at the same moment means that is comparable to CS.
RPG=Role Playing Game. This literally means to play a different role than the one you hold in real life, but most players do this in a passive manner. I think, more importantly to this discussion, that the RPG moniker relates to a couple of distinct features. One, the ability to create a character and fill it's role (tank, DPS, support, hybrid, etc.) and outfit the character in armor and weapons and accessories. Two, the use of skills and abilities that you choose or come with your character template that you utilize to fill it's main role.
GW offers the RPG, hence ArenaNet's CORPG terminology. It's not an MMORPG, but that doesn't make it an FPS. It does fill out the RPG criteria to the T though, of which CS has none. That's why GW has more in common with MMORPGs than FPS games and that's why GW is on this website.
Originally posted by gestalt11 GW has autoattack. So that right there almost completely invalidates your point.
WoW has talking cows. How's that for another, totally irrelevant differentiating factor?
GW has skill selection and builds. And figuring out and managing/timing your skills properly is very important. Your fightign effectiveness is heavily dependent on not just taking the right skill combo, but using it at the right time.
Why not play Magic the Gathering instead then? It enables infinitely more complex combinations and scenarios, with every player gathering a deck of 60 cards out of thousands, and then engaging in what tends to become a very complex and unique combat experience. The "complex tactical choices" you have in GW don't even begin to compare. You can play it online with thousands of people, but you could also play it with friends in real life, or participate in global tournaments for real price money.
Yeah, you could call GW some kind of realtime MTG; but in that case, can you call MTG a MMO? Why does it matter, you ask? Because from my point of view, even MTG has a lot more in common with Counterstrike than a MMO. Although to be honest even WoW's classification as a MMO seems kinda questionable to me, as it is hardly a "living, breathing virtual world" like a MMO is supposed to be.
Your Magic the gathering analogy is much more apt. If you want to call it a real time smaller scale MTG I'm ok with that. But Counterstrike is way too far of a stretch.
In fact mesmers are very much like the Blue stuff they even have a spell called power drain. I wouldn't be surprised if GW was influenced by MTG. Not surprised at all.
As to the MMO stuff I don't care if GW is claasified that way or not and I persoanlly put it in a different category than other MMOs.
But with that being said most MMOs "worlds" are extremely fake and almost don't even need a 3d engine for anything but looks. Only Neocron so far take much advantage of even having a 3d engine. So meh phewy on all of them except maybe Ultima Online or Eve(but Eve has less content demands so that is different)
Originally posted by vendris Today, I was able to say something I have never, ever been able to say in an MMO. I was able to say "I'm done with my gear." I crafted a set of "15k" end game armor. I have two max damage weapons with the exact modifiers I want on them. I have a few elite skills that fit my playstyle and several good, solid PVE and PVP builds.
I didn't have to endlessly raid the same instances over and over until I wanted to claw my eyes out. I didn't have to camp named spawns killing them hundreds of times hoping some ridiculously low chance drop would drop. I didn't have to give up having an actual life.
Now, I can log in at night after work and pvp for an hour or two and have a great time. All my gear as good as you can get. I don't have to worry about getting utterly destroyed simply because some guy I'm fighting against spent the last year of his life running raid instances obsessive compulsively in order to get ridiculousy overpowered equipment. My skill as a player and my choices as to what skills I equip and what skills my opponents equips, and how well each side works together as a team, determines who wins... not how much time each person playing had to devote to getting better gear.
I know there are people out there who love the endless gear treadmill. People who live for the day that a new dungeon with better gear for them to go after gets added to their MMO. People who take pride in how much time and effort they've put into getting the items they have for their character, and feel that since they play more than most people, they deserve to have better items that allow them to utterly destroy people who don't have them.
I'm not one of those people. For me, Guildwars is exactly what I wanted. An MMO ( or CORPG if you prefer ) where the character progression is fun, but also allows me at some point to go "I'm done", without the need to endlessly advance my level and items in order to stay competitive in PvP.
Arenanet, how I love thee!
Glad to hear! So nice to hear someone that truly enjoys a game instead of all the endless bitching you hear on these boards. I have to say WTG Arenanet.
Originally posted by vendris Originally posted by Takai001 I've had this game since launch but yet I haven't been able to play more than 3 hours. I get bored quick.
Every game isn't for every person to be sure. I have friends who absolutely love EVE and swear by it, but personally the game bored me to tears. For me, the main key to enjoying Guildwars is, like the first word in the title of the game, being in a good guild. By "good" I don't mean "powerful" or "elite".. I mean, people you enjoy being with and playing with. Also, while I have found some of the PvE missions to be a lot of fun (especially in Factions), for me the meat of the game is PvP. I love the random battle arena and taking part in the 12 versus 12 alliance battles. In a way, it's not that different from back when I was playing Quake and Starsiege Tribes.For strictly PVE I would definitely agree there are better MMOs out there. However, Guildwars is my absolute favorite when it comes to PVP (which is the main focus of the game). But see here... I want to love GW. The way the game was made and every single aspect of it I love. But the beginning is really boring... I enjoy the story-line but it justs gets so so boring to me some how.
Mustache is a cat That has to go to the vet Do your taxes now
Originally posted by Takai001 I've had this game since launch but yet I haven't been able to play more than 3 hours. I get bored quick.
Every game isn't for every person to be sure. I have friends who absolutely love EVE and swear by it, but personally the game bored me to tears. For me, the main key to enjoying Guildwars is, like the first word in the title of the game, being in a good guild. By "good" I don't mean "powerful" or "elite".. I mean, people you enjoy being with and playing with. Also, while I have found some of the PvE missions to be a lot of fun (especially in Factions), for me the meat of the game is PvP. I love the random battle arena and taking part in the 12 versus 12 alliance battles. In a way, it's not that different from back when I was playing Quake and Starsiege Tribes.For strictly PVE I would definitely agree there are better MMOs out there. However, Guildwars is my absolute favorite when it comes to PVP (which is the main focus of the game). But see here... I want to love GW. The way the game was made and every single aspect of it I love. But the beginning is really boring... I enjoy the story-line but it justs gets so so boring to me some how.
Beginning? You mean Pre-searing Ascalon? Yeah that is kinda boring, although some like it. Factions starts quicker but is less open later on.
I dunno GW PvE is kind of like Eve in some ways, you really need to do a bit of research to get into it. The way various builds work out is not immediately obvious. And being able to do an encounter or a run just right can take a lot of practice and knowledge.
Going onto Guild Wars Wiki and browsing all the skills and reading up on tested builds really makes things a lot more interesting. When you first start off you are just given a few skills and can't do too much and sometimes don't really feel that the motivation is there because you can kinda run around and do whatever and pick stuff up a long the way.
Whereas last night I was trying to work out a build to solo farm the Xuekao boss as an Assassin/Elementalist (a build I got from GW Wiki). Basically running past some mobs, then pull Xue and letting all his hidden spawn unhide then teleporting in and trying to assinate him with a particular skill set. Well I got him twice but I haven't figured out how to do it reliably. It can be pretty intense since I only have abotu 20 seconds to do the whole combo. But I think I spent about 2 hours trying to perfect it. It is rather engrossing as I know I did it before and I keep geting him down close so I know there its possible. Anyway its a pretty cool little puzzle and is pretty exciting too.
There are a lot of little interesting and exciting thigns like that to do. But its also easy to fart around and get bored. Its one of those games where you need to set your own goals. The missions are fun and the story is nice, but there is a lot more to do its just not really obvious and the cooler stuff can take a bit to get to in the prophecies campaign. Although in Faction you could easily capture your first elite in about a day.
guild, everyone with same gear and level, quick pvp with no permanent exp loss etc, the standard features of console sword slashing games on xbox live or FPS on gamespy etc
this is why even the makers of gw dont consider it an mmorpg but rather a "competitive online role playing" or something, in addition to it being mostly instances no other players can enter outside of your party or npcs, i thought it was really elite and super when i played it and after a few days had max everything but shortly i realised something-that was it
theres better free mmos than gw, and there was free mmos before gw, so i never saw the big fuss, i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
pvp where everyone has the exact same gear and level may seem cool but it boils down to, certain vocation attacks certain vocation, after learning all the vocations you can tell if your team is going to win or lose a match just by seeing what vocations are on the other team, for example with a mesmer you can pretty much make a monk useless and suicidal etc
so theres really no team work where 20 low level players will try to ambush 15 high level players or surprise factor or roleplaying
Originally posted by sacred_band theres better free mmos than gw, and there was free mmos before gw, so i never saw the big fuss, i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
Why do you bring the free part into it...no one is discussing it being free. And there AREN'T better free MMOs out there...I know...I've tried 'em all. In fact, I don't believe there are any "better" pay2play MMOs out there either. They're different to GW, but certainly not better...and, depending what your "flavour" is, a lot of people will like GW's style better. (For example, the OP...and myself)
I agree with the OP, Guildwars Rocks. I have played just about every MMO (including most of the Korean ones as well) and while GW isn't a true MMO it still rocks. I love being able to jump in for a bit and have a good time. I love not having to worry about PUG all the time thanks to Henchies and soon Heroes.
I love that the level cap is low so I can get to a the level cap without spending days /played and I don't spend all my time worrying about that next piece of gear after I have maxed out my gear.
I am not a raider so I love that Guildwars doesn't have that.
PvP is simple to get into yet complex in the number of ways it can be played.
The community isn't always the best but I don't spend much time in the towns and outpost to worry about that. If my friends aren't on I just use henchies.
-------------------------------- Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
theres better free mmos than gw, and there was free mmos before gw, so i never saw the big fuss, i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
Care to name the "BETTER" free mmos out there? If you say Runescape I am just going to have to LOL so hard I will have to change my pants afterwards.
-------------------------------- Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by vendris The "Guildwars isn't a real MMO" refrain is really tired. The game is listed here on MMORPG and therefore discussions about the game are perfectly valid.
Yeah but the fact is that you enjoyed games like Counterstrike before and now you made a thread about enjoying what is essentially Counterstrike from a third person view, so it's kinda like having someone who likes normal cereals make a huge number out of enjoying cereals that have been colored blue. The fact that I never once mentioned Counterstrike, and I have in fact never even played Counterstrike, shows me that you didn't even actually read my posts. I made one comment about it reminding me of my days playing Quake and Starsiege Tribes. This was not in relation to the actual gameplay itself. It's about the fact that after I finish the PVE storyline, hunt down all the elite skills I need for the builds I want to use, craft my end game armor sets, and get a few max damage weapons customized for my builds, I'm finished with character progression.
Guildwars has character progression. You have to level up from 1 to 20, grind to get your armor made, grind for money and drops to get the weapons you want, and farm for elite skill drops. It is an RPG, and I found the RPG aspects very enjoyable. What I don't find enjoyable is *endless* progression. I do not enjoy the endless treadmill that subscription based games put you on in order to keep you hooked, playing, and paying.
I can take a long break from guildwars if I want, come back, and my character will be just as powerful compared to the people who have kept playing as he is now. They aren't going to raise the level cap ten levels or add "tier 3" weapons and armor to the game while I'm gone, forcing me to PvE for weeks (if not months) to get on par with other people.
They do add new content all the time, but the new content offers horizontal, not vertical progression. This makes it so that dedicated playing is *rewarded*, but not *necessary*. This is what I love about the game.
to the OP, great post and i believe you hit the nail on the head.
And i don't understand how you all can say "You can't really compare, it's not an MMO". First of all, it's pretty simple to comapre. In one game you have to give up 5+ hours a night, multiple nights a week, for months on end, to have a *chance* at getting a full armor set. In the other, you can still have a life and even when you get gear, gear does not determine outcomes of fights as much as skill.
And second, yes you can call guild wars an MMORPG. It's massive, it's multiplayer, it's online, and it's an RPG.
You all talk as if WoW isn't instanced at all. /laugh
All WOW comes down to is the same old instance/raid in the end game. It's the epitome of instances.
Disclaimer: this is only in reference to the guild wars / WoW argument. Not taking into consideration other MMO's.
Guild Wars is a great game, I wish I spent more time on it when I first picked it up over a year ago. The Pve part keeps me busy and sometimes when in the mood, I go to a random arena for pvp. I still havent picked up Factions yet, waiting to see if Nightfall will offer some kind of combo pack.
Originally posted by sacred_band i thought it was really elite and super when i played it and after a few days had max everything
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
and you cant unlock 1000 skills in a few days , even if you dont sleep for a week
-------------------------------------------------------- i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free -------------------------------------------------------
roung , its the oposite , people that come from classic mmos like AO EQ , dont like GW especialy if they are looking for the same kind of system and what they find is totaly diferent.
for a start , classic mmos the solo part when you start the game is way longer then in guildwars. guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest. for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
BUT
nightfall will be better for all of you solo play lovers with the heros system you can do everything solo remote control henchs , you can chose skills , armor , atributes , weapons , you can even cast the skills for them , put them where you want when you want.
but also , people that like to go out alone and find someone being killed by a pig , save him and be friends for ever , guildwars doesnt work that way. you meet people in towns before you go out to kill pigs.
Originally posted by sacred_band i thought it was really elite and super when i played it and after a few days had max everything
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
guildwars. guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest. for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
That's another thing I really love... if all you want from the game, is to be competitive, the 1.5k armor sets are all you need. The 15k armor sets offer no stat bonuses over the 1.5k.. they just look better. The high end sets above that, once again, cost more to make, look more impressive.. but offer no in game advantage.
This means you can, if you want, go after incredibly expensive, hard to get items, that make your character stand out, and gain you some recognition.. but these items don't let you run around destroying people in PvP simply because you have more time to grind in the game than they do.
I find this system much more appealing than say, WoW, where gear offers huge advantages, and it's hard to stay competitive in PvP if you don't have massive amounts of time to devote to farming PvE content for the gear.
Originally posted by vendris The "Guildwars isn't a real MMO" refrain is really tired. The game is listed here on MMORPG and therefore discussions about the game are perfectly valid.
It's definitally not an MMO, but I gave up arguing about it a long time ago and you're right it is listed here and open for discussion.
than one would say what qualifies DDO as an MMO ? Its pretty much the same setup as GW except you pay a monthly fee.
Originally posted by vendris Today, I was able to say something I have never, ever been able to say in an MMO. I was able to say "I'm done with my gear." I crafted a set of "15k" end game armor. I have two max damage weapons with the exact modifiers I want on them. I have a few elite skills that fit my playstyle and several good, solid PVE and PVP builds.
I didn't have to endlessly raid the same instances over and over until I wanted to claw my eyes out. I didn't have to camp named spawns killing them hundreds of times hoping some ridiculously low chance drop would drop. I didn't have to give up having an actual life.
Now, I can log in at night after work and pvp for an hour or two and have a great time. All my gear as good as you can get. I don't have to worry about getting utterly destroyed simply because some guy I'm fighting against spent the last year of his life running raid instances obsessive compulsively in order to get ridiculousy overpowered equipment. My skill as a player and my choices as to what skills I equip and what skills my opponents equips, and how well each side works together as a team, determines who wins... not how much time each person playing had to devote to getting better gear.
I know there are people out there who love the endless gear treadmill. People who live for the day that a new dungeon with better gear for them to go after gets added to their MMO. People who take pride in how much time and effort they've put into getting the items they have for their character, and feel that since they play more than most people, they deserve to have better items that allow them to utterly destroy people who don't have them.
I'm not one of those people. For me, Guildwars is exactly what I wanted. An MMO ( or CORPG if you prefer ) where the character progression is fun, but also allows me at some point to go "I'm done", without the need to endlessly advance my level and items in order to stay competitive in PvP.
Arenanet, how I love thee!
Now, while this game had some awesome PvP I wouldn't say that it relied on y our individual skills. It got very boring very fast, the PvP was sweet but aside from that the normal quest gameplay was very dull and reptative. I generally don't mind the endless treadmills as they generally have things to look forward to with each level, but Guild Wars didn't have much of that. Not to mention maxing out at level 20 killed part of the experience.
I did absolutely love the team PvP battles, I think the longest I went was like 27 rounds with a team when it had just come out. If you can manage to get a team that functions well together, it's a blast.
Originally posted by BoredPeanut Originally posted by vendris Today, I was able to say something I have never, ever been able to say in an MMO. I was able to say "I'm done with my gear." I crafted a set of "15k" end game armor. I have two max damage weapons with the exact modifiers I want on them. I have a few elite skills that fit my playstyle and several good, solid PVE and PVP builds.
I didn't have to endlessly raid the same instances over and over until I wanted to claw my eyes out. I didn't have to camp named spawns killing them hundreds of times hoping some ridiculously low chance drop would drop. I didn't have to give up having an actual life.
Now, I can log in at night after work and pvp for an hour or two and have a great time. All my gear as good as you can get. I don't have to worry about getting utterly destroyed simply because some guy I'm fighting against spent the last year of his life running raid instances obsessive compulsively in order to get ridiculousy overpowered equipment. My skill as a player and my choices as to what skills I equip and what skills my opponents equips, and how well each side works together as a team, determines who wins... not how much time each person playing had to devote to getting better gear.
I know there are people out there who love the endless gear treadmill. People who live for the day that a new dungeon with better gear for them to go after gets added to their MMO. People who take pride in how much time and effort they've put into getting the items they have for their character, and feel that since they play more than most people, they deserve to have better items that allow them to utterly destroy people who don't have them.
I'm not one of those people. For me, Guildwars is exactly what I wanted. An MMO ( or CORPG if you prefer ) where the character progression is fun, but also allows me at some point to go "I'm done", without the need to endlessly advance my level and items in order to stay competitive in PvP.
Arenanet, how I love thee!
Now, while this game had some awesome PvP I wouldn't say that it relied on y our individual skills. It got very boring very fast, the PvP was sweet but aside from that the normal quest gameplay was very dull and reptative. I generally don't mind the endless treadmills as they generally have things to look forward to with each level, but Guild Wars didn't have much of that. Not to mention maxing out at level 20 killed part of the experience.
I did absolutely love the team PvP battles, I think the longest I went was like 27 rounds with a team when it had just come out. If you can manage to get a team that functions well together, it's a blast.
Factions added a lot more than just the arena based team versus team battles (it seems from a lot of the replies to this thread that some people aren't away of that). The Alliance Battles are 12 versus 12 battles ( 3 teams of 4 versus another 3 teams of 4) on multiple, objective based maps. They're a ton of fun.
Originally posted by sacred_band i thought it was really elite and super when i played it and after a few days had max everything
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
and you cant unlock 1000 skills in a few days , even if you dont sleep for a week
-------------------------------------------------------- i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free -------------------------------------------------------
roung , its the oposite , people that come from classic mmos like AO EQ , dont like GW especialy if they are looking for the same kind of system and what they find is totaly diferent.
for a start , classic mmos the solo part when you start the game is way longer then in guildwars. guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest. for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
BUT
nightfall will be better for all of you solo play lovers with the heros system you can do everything solo remote control henchs , you can chose skills , armor , atributes , weapons , you can even cast the skills for them , put them where you want when you want.
but also , people that like to go out alone and find someone being killed by a pig , save him and be friends for ever , guildwars doesnt work that way. you meet people in towns before you go out to kill pigs.
You will never convince the level grind zombies that the max level of 20 isn't important. They are zombies they only eat brains they don't actually have them.
Originally posted by vendris Today, I was able to say something I have never, ever been able to say in an MMO. I was able to say "I'm done with my gear." I crafted a set of "15k" end game armor. I have two max damage weapons with the exact modifiers I want on them. I have a few elite skills that fit my playstyle and several good, solid PVE and PVP builds.
I didn't have to endlessly raid the same instances over and over until I wanted to claw my eyes out. I didn't have to camp named spawns killing them hundreds of times hoping some ridiculously low chance drop would drop. I didn't have to give up having an actual life.
Now, I can log in at night after work and pvp for an hour or two and have a great time. All my gear as good as you can get. I don't have to worry about getting utterly destroyed simply because some guy I'm fighting against spent the last year of his life running raid instances obsessive compulsively in order to get ridiculousy overpowered equipment. My skill as a player and my choices as to what skills I equip and what skills my opponents equips, and how well each side works together as a team, determines who wins... not how much time each person playing had to devote to getting better gear.
I know there are people out there who love the endless gear treadmill. People who live for the day that a new dungeon with better gear for them to go after gets added to their MMO. People who take pride in how much time and effort they've put into getting the items they have for their character, and feel that since they play more than most people, they deserve to have better items that allow them to utterly destroy people who don't have them.
I'm not one of those people. For me, Guildwars is exactly what I wanted. An MMO ( or CORPG if you prefer ) where the character progression is fun, but also allows me at some point to go "I'm done", without the need to endlessly advance my level and items in order to stay competitive in PvP.
Arenanet, how I love thee!
Kudos to you bro, you're so on the money. Long live Guild Wars! I'm loving it!
vendris, I agree - I think it's a great game. The only reason I stopped playing it was - I'm a very competitive person and I couldn't find a regular guild to pvp with. I tried a few they just didn't work out. And the pickup team pvp was making me weep like a baby.
But if I had a regular group to pvp with I would defiantly stay with it more.
As for it not being a true MMO - who cares, less lag no monthly fee.
Comments
By saying that you choose weapons in an FPS and skills in GW so they're the same is like saying that because you kill badguys in FEAR and kill badguys in WoW that FEAR is an endless grind. Come on man, the input and output for CS and GW are completely different. They do not rely at all on the same kind of criteria.
I am not saying that you are not allowed to post your thoughts, I'm just saying that while they are both accesible for easy, quick enjoyment, they do not play at all the same. If I'm having a good day on GW I'm usually doing it because I keep getting killed in CS so I went to play a different style game.
MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online. This means that you can play with a massive number of other players online. This, GW does not have, but I don't think the fact that you can't play with 3,000 players at the same moment means that is comparable to CS.
RPG=Role Playing Game. This literally means to play a different role than the one you hold in real life, but most players do this in a passive manner. I think, more importantly to this discussion, that the RPG moniker relates to a couple of distinct features. One, the ability to create a character and fill it's role (tank, DPS, support, hybrid, etc.) and outfit the character in armor and weapons and accessories. Two, the use of skills and abilities that you choose or come with your character template that you utilize to fill it's main role.
GW offers the RPG, hence ArenaNet's CORPG terminology. It's not an MMORPG, but that doesn't make it an FPS. It does fill out the RPG criteria to the T though, of which CS has none. That's why GW has more in common with MMORPGs than FPS games and that's why GW is on this website.
Your Magic the gathering analogy is much more apt. If you want to call it a real time smaller scale MTG I'm ok with that. But Counterstrike is way too far of a stretch.
In fact mesmers are very much like the Blue stuff they even have a spell called power drain. I wouldn't be surprised if GW was influenced by MTG. Not surprised at all.
As to the MMO stuff I don't care if GW is claasified that way or not and I persoanlly put it in a different category than other MMOs.
But with that being said most MMOs "worlds" are extremely fake and almost don't even need a 3d engine for anything but looks. Only Neocron so far take much advantage of even having a 3d engine. So meh phewy on all of them except maybe Ultima Online or Eve(but Eve has less content demands so that is different)
But see here... I want to love GW. The way the game was made and every single aspect of it I love. But the beginning is really boring... I enjoy the story-line but it justs gets so so boring to me some how.
Mustache is a cat
That has to go to the vet
Do your taxes now
But see here... I want to love GW. The way the game was made and every single aspect of it I love. But the beginning is really boring... I enjoy the story-line but it justs gets so so boring to me some how.
Beginning? You mean Pre-searing Ascalon? Yeah that is kinda boring, although some like it. Factions starts quicker but is less open later on.
I dunno GW PvE is kind of like Eve in some ways, you really need to do a bit of research to get into it. The way various builds work out is not immediately obvious. And being able to do an encounter or a run just right can take a lot of practice and knowledge.
Going onto Guild Wars Wiki and browsing all the skills and reading up on tested builds really makes things a lot more interesting. When you first start off you are just given a few skills and can't do too much and sometimes don't really feel that the motivation is there because you can kinda run around and do whatever and pick stuff up a long the way.
Whereas last night I was trying to work out a build to solo farm the Xuekao boss as an Assassin/Elementalist (a build I got from GW Wiki). Basically running past some mobs, then pull Xue and letting all his hidden spawn unhide then teleporting in and trying to assinate him with a particular skill set. Well I got him twice but I haven't figured out how to do it reliably. It can be pretty intense since I only have abotu 20 seconds to do the whole combo. But I think I spent about 2 hours trying to perfect it. It is rather engrossing as I know I did it before and I keep geting him down close so I know there its possible. Anyway its a pretty cool little puzzle and is pretty exciting too.
There are a lot of little interesting and exciting thigns like that to do. But its also easy to fart around and get bored. Its one of those games where you need to set your own goals. The missions are fun and the story is nice, but there is a lot more to do its just not really obvious and the cooler stuff can take a bit to get to in the prophecies campaign. Although in Faction you could easily capture your first elite in about a day.
its sounds like you just dont like rpgs
guild, everyone with same gear and level, quick pvp with no permanent exp loss etc, the standard features of console sword slashing games on xbox live or FPS on gamespy etc
this is why even the makers of gw dont consider it an mmorpg but rather a "competitive online role playing" or something, in addition to it being mostly instances no other players can enter outside of your party or npcs, i thought it was really elite and super when i played it and after a few days had max everything but shortly i realised something-that was it
theres better free mmos than gw, and there was free mmos before gw, so i never saw the big fuss, i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
pvp where everyone has the exact same gear and level may seem cool but it boils down to, certain vocation attacks certain vocation, after learning all the vocations you can tell if your team is going to win or lose a match just by seeing what vocations are on the other team, for example with a mesmer you can pretty much make a monk useless and suicidal etc
so theres really no team work where 20 low level players will try to ambush 15 high level players or surprise factor or roleplaying
Why do you bring the free part into it...no one is discussing it being free. And there AREN'T better free MMOs out there...I know...I've tried 'em all. In fact, I don't believe there are any "better" pay2play MMOs out there either. They're different to GW, but certainly not better...and, depending what your "flavour" is, a lot of people will like GW's style better. (For example, the OP...and myself)
I love that the level cap is low so I can get to a the level cap without spending days /played and I don't spend all my time worrying about that next piece of gear after I have maxed out my gear.
I am not a raider so I love that Guildwars doesn't have that.
PvP is simple to get into yet complex in the number of ways it can be played.
The community isn't always the best but I don't spend much time in the towns and outpost to worry about that. If my friends aren't on I just use henchies.
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Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Quit: Eden Eternal, Wakfu, DDO, STO, DCUO, Sword 2, Atlantica Online, LOTRO, SWTOR, RIFT, Earthrise, FFXIV, RoM, Allods Online, GA,WAR,CO,V:SoH,POTBS,TR,COH/COV, WOW, DDO,AL, EQ, Eve, L2, AA, Mx0, SWG, SoR, AO, RFO, DAoC, and others.
www.twitter.com/mlwhitt
www.michaelwhitt.com
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Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Quit: Eden Eternal, Wakfu, DDO, STO, DCUO, Sword 2, Atlantica Online, LOTRO, SWTOR, RIFT, Earthrise, FFXIV, RoM, Allods Online, GA,WAR,CO,V:SoH,POTBS,TR,COH/COV, WOW, DDO,AL, EQ, Eve, L2, AA, Mx0, SWG, SoR, AO, RFO, DAoC, and others.
www.twitter.com/mlwhitt
www.michaelwhitt.com
The fact that I never once mentioned Counterstrike, and I have in fact never even played Counterstrike, shows me that you didn't even actually read my posts. I made one comment about it reminding me of my days playing Quake and Starsiege Tribes. This was not in relation to the actual gameplay itself. It's about the fact that after I finish the PVE storyline, hunt down all the elite skills I need for the builds I want to use, craft my end game armor sets, and get a few max damage weapons customized for my builds, I'm finished with character progression.
Guildwars has character progression. You have to level up from 1 to 20, grind to get your armor made, grind for money and drops to get the weapons you want, and farm for elite skill drops. It is an RPG, and I found the RPG aspects very enjoyable. What I don't find enjoyable is *endless* progression. I do not enjoy the endless treadmill that subscription based games put you on in order to keep you hooked, playing, and paying.
I can take a long break from guildwars if I want, come back, and my character will be just as powerful compared to the people who have kept playing as he is now. They aren't going to raise the level cap ten levels or add "tier 3" weapons and armor to the game while I'm gone, forcing me to PvE for weeks (if not months) to get on par with other people.
They do add new content all the time, but the new content offers horizontal, not vertical progression. This makes it so that dedicated playing is *rewarded*, but not *necessary*. This is what I love about the game.
And i don't understand how you all can say "You can't really compare, it's not an MMO". First of all, it's pretty simple to comapre. In one game you have to give up 5+ hours a night, multiple nights a week, for months on end, to have a *chance* at getting a full armor set. In the other, you can still have a life and even when you get gear, gear does not determine outcomes of fights as much as skill.
And second, yes you can call guild wars an MMORPG. It's massive, it's multiplayer, it's online, and it's an RPG.
You all talk as if WoW isn't instanced at all. /laugh
All WOW comes down to is the same old instance/raid in the end game. It's the epitome of instances.
Disclaimer: this is only in reference to the guild wars / WoW argument. Not taking into consideration other MMO's.
Iwinbutton.com | Gaming / MMO Blog
Waiting on Guild Wars 2
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
and you cant unlock 1000 skills in a few days , even if you dont sleep for a week
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i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
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roung , its the oposite , people that come from classic mmos like AO EQ , dont like GW
especialy if they are looking for the same kind of system and what they find is totaly diferent.
for a start , classic mmos the solo part when you start the game is way longer then in guildwars.
guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest.
for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
BUT
nightfall will be better for all of you solo play lovers
with the heros system you can do everything solo
remote control henchs , you can chose skills , armor , atributes , weapons , you can even cast the skills for them , put them where you want when you want.
but also , people that like to go out alone and find someone being killed by a pig , save him and be friends for ever , guildwars doesnt work that way. you meet people in towns before you go out to kill pigs.
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
guildwars.
guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest.
for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
That's another thing I really love... if all you want from the game, is to be competitive, the 1.5k armor sets are all you need. The 15k armor sets offer no stat bonuses over the 1.5k.. they just look better. The high end sets above that, once again, cost more to make, look more impressive.. but offer no in game advantage.
This means you can, if you want, go after incredibly expensive, hard to get items, that make your character stand out, and gain you some recognition.. but these items don't let you run around destroying people in PvP simply because you have more time to grind in the game than they do.
I find this system much more appealing than say, WoW, where gear offers huge advantages, and it's hard to stay competitive in PvP if you don't have massive amounts of time to devote to farming PvE content for the gear.
than one would say what qualifies DDO as an MMO ? Its pretty much the same setup as GW except you pay a monthly fee.
I did absolutely love the team PvP battles, I think the longest I went was like 27 rounds with a team when it had just come out. If you can manage to get a team that functions well together, it's a blast.
I did absolutely love the team PvP battles, I think the longest I went was like 27 rounds with a team when it had just come out. If you can manage to get a team that functions well together, it's a blast.
Factions added a lot more than just the arena based team versus team battles (it seems from a lot of the replies to this thread that some people aren't away of that). The Alliance Battles are 12 versus 12 battles ( 3 teams of 4 versus another 3 teams of 4) on multiple, objective based maps. They're a ton of fun.
LOL max everything in a few days ???? must love the liars here
there is a armor that costs about 2 million gold , same stats that a 10 k armor have but the max armor is the 2 million gold one not the 10 k one.
and you cant unlock 1000 skills in a few days , even if you dont sleep for a week
--------------------------------------------------------
i guess because its a free mmo published by a company who normally makes monthly fee MMOs first timers are fooled into thinking its the exact same product but free
-------------------------------------------------------
roung , its the oposite , people that come from classic mmos like AO EQ , dont like GW
especialy if they are looking for the same kind of system and what they find is totaly diferent.
for a start , classic mmos the solo part when you start the game is way longer then in guildwars.
guildwars makes you team up in the 2nd quest.
for people that like to farm levels , guildwars doesnt make any sence.
BUT
nightfall will be better for all of you solo play lovers
with the heros system you can do everything solo
remote control henchs , you can chose skills , armor , atributes , weapons , you can even cast the skills for them , put them where you want when you want.
but also , people that like to go out alone and find someone being killed by a pig , save him and be friends for ever , guildwars doesnt work that way. you meet people in towns before you go out to kill pigs.
You will never convince the level grind zombies that the max level of 20 isn't important. They are zombies they only eat brains they don't actually have them.
3 hours?... hmm Im getting borred alot... I mean ALOT faster lol
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Played:
AC, AC2, UO, AO, EQ, EQ2, Shadowbane, DAoC, Horisons, SWG, EVE, L2, GW, WoW, DDO, LotRO
Beta tested:
AC, AC2, EQ2, SWG, Horisons, WoW, Archlord, LotRO, Espado Granada, Vanguard
Currently playing: AoC
id like to share this image here too
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
Spiritglow
vendris, I agree - I think it's a great game. The only
reason I stopped playing it was - I'm a very competitive person and I couldn't
find a regular guild to pvp with. I tried a few they just didn't work out.
And the pickup team pvp was making me weep like a baby.
But if I had a regular group to pvp with I would defiantly stay with it more.
As for it not being a true MMO - who cares, less lag no monthly fee.